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This topic has moved here: Subject: "ADAPT." No. Armor Lock and Sword Block are moronic.
  • Subject: "ADAPT." No. Armor Lock and Sword Block are moronic.
Subject: "ADAPT." No. Armor Lock and Sword Block are moronic.

Hi.

Posted by: WILLtheKILLA5
A thread about AL *faceplam*

This was not worth my time go ahead and call me what you want i anit coming back to this trash.
...?

Thanks for the bump..?

  • 07.02.2011 6:56 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Darkside Eric
or are we just supposed to watch the door to the left, the hallway to the right, and the courtyard behind us?
As if it were anywhere even close to being that simple. If you pushed for the control points of a map using teamwork and controlling power weapons, someone shouldn't be able to negate that by simply dying and pressing "up, A".


As if losing your map control is that simple.

As I said before... if you have a certain portion of the map under control, that control should include watching the sky. If you watch the sky, you render their Jet Pack a non-threat.
Three people on Ring 2 on Asylum. They have control of the map. Instead of having the other team perform a 4-man push/flank, they have one guy Jetpack straight up above Ring 2. Now, all three people are teamshotting him, he picks off two with a couple grenades and some shots, and bam, Ring 2 is basically open.


So you just proved that the three people on Ring 2 couldn't do their job.

Why did they not fan out to avoid being killed in a group? Why did they not have a power weapon to take him out quickly? Why did they not use their own Armor Abilities? Where was their fourth man?

  • 07.02.2011 6:59 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Darkside Eric
Dual Wielding wasn't "Halo" either.
Correct.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Nor was vehicle jacking.
Why? It promotes good usage of vehicles. If you can't control it correctly, you should lose it. It's not like it's some random occurrence, it has a set range that it can happen at.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Nor was Equipment.
I didn't like Equipment, but it's purely Halo and 100% better than AA's in every way. Of course, maybe not for the inexperienced or 'bad' players that complained about it so very frequently. "People just through equipment without even knowing what it did" -Bungie. Yeah, people who absolutely sucked did, sure. So do people who shoot guns without having basic knowledge about them. What's your point, Bungie?
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Nor was the Sword in matchmaking.
Another control point. Why is it not Halo?

Posted by: Darkside Eric
Nor were any of the new elements introduced post Halo CE.
Is this then implying that Halo CE elements were? If so, wouldn't you have then contradicted yourself, because there is no difference between a Sword and a Sniper besides their ranges. They're both map flow regulators and control points.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Have you ever played against the same team or person 20+ times? You eventually learn their traits, habits, strategies, etc. There's nothing new to fight against because you already know how to fight them. You already know they favor the Shotgun over the Sniper Rifle and thus you know to have the Shotgun covered. It's when that team introduces something you have never seen them do before which makes it challenging.
This is a good thing that the population can remain so stable to which you will almost never fight the same team 20+ times.

Also, explain MLG. They face each other hundreds and hundreds of times, yet there's variety in what happens in every single match.

  • 07.02.2011 7:06 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Darkside Eric
So you just proved that the three people on Ring 2 couldn't do their job.
No, I just proved how the three people on Ring 2 couldn't predict the unpredictable.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Why did they not fan out to avoid being killed in a group?
Who said they got killed in a group? If you're suggesting them to give up ring control when you say "fan out", that proves my point; Jetpack just gave the guy free ring control without him having to think or organize a flank.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Why did they not use their own Armor Abilities?
Should they have Sprinted away (again, handing over ring control)?
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Why did they not have a power weapon to take him out quickly?
Maybe they were all out. Maybe Sword spawned in 30 seconds and both Snipers died and the weapons despawned. Even if not, this is no excuse. The guy spawned unequally to obtain an advantage. This isn't Halo.

  • 07.02.2011 7:11 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Dual Wielding wasn't "Halo" either.
Correct.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Nor was vehicle jacking.
Why? It promotes good usage of vehicles. If you can't control it correctly, you should lose it. It's not like it's some random occurrence, it has a set range that it can happen at.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Nor was Equipment.
I didn't like Equipment, but it's purely Halo and 100% better than AA's in every way. Of course, maybe not for the inexperienced or 'bad' players that complained about it so very frequently. "People just through equipment without even knowing what it did" -Bungie. Yeah, people who absolutely sucked did, sure. So do people who shoot guns without having basic knowledge about them. What's your point, Bungie?
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Nor was the Sword in matchmaking.
Another control point. Why is it not Halo?

Posted by: Darkside Eric
Nor were any of the new elements introduced post Halo CE.
Is this then implying that Halo CE elements were? If so, wouldn't you have then contradicted yourself, because there is no difference between a Sword and a Sniper besides their ranges. They're both map flow regulators and control points.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Have you ever played against the same team or person 20+ times? You eventually learn their traits, habits, strategies, etc. There's nothing new to fight against because you already know how to fight them. You already know they favor the Shotgun over the Sniper Rifle and thus you know to have the Shotgun covered. It's when that team introduces something you have never seen them do before which makes it challenging.
This is a good thing that the population can remain so stable to which you will almost never fight the same team 20+ times.

Also, explain MLG. They face each other hundreds and hundreds of times, yet there's variety in what happens in every single match.


You said "things weren't Halo." Thing is... all the elements I named, including the blanket "new elements post Halo CE" were integrated to be a part of Halo. Armor Abilities are just another integration.

Yes, MLG has variety because they train to be different while retaining some base techniques and behaviors.

If they did not train to be different each game it would go just as I said.

When I played Street Fighter competitively I trained against several people, once I started learning their habits they started showing me new habits. If they had never displayed those new habits they would have been easier to fight.

  • 07.02.2011 7:19 PM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

I support Darkside Eric.

He is pretty much right.

  • 07.02.2011 7:22 PM PDT

Sword block is retarded

  • 07.02.2011 7:24 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Darkside Eric
So you just proved that the three people on Ring 2 couldn't do their job.
No, I just proved how the three people on Ring 2 couldn't predict the unpredictable.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Why did they not fan out to avoid being killed in a group?
Who said they got killed in a group? If you're suggesting them to give up ring control when you say "fan out", that proves my point; Jetpack just gave the guy free ring control without him having to think or organize a flank.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Why did they not use their own Armor Abilities?
Should they have Sprinted away (again, handing over ring control)?
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Why did they not have a power weapon to take him out quickly?
Maybe they were all out. Maybe Sword spawned in 30 seconds and both Snipers died and the weapons despawned. Even if not, this is no excuse. The guy spawned unequally to obtain an advantage. This isn't Halo.


They couldn't predict the unpredictable?

They know Jet Pack is a selectable Armor Ability. That instantly, instantly should make them aware that it could be picked at any time and to prep for it.

You're also implying that, to "fan out" means you have to give up ring control. You are also kind of excluding the fact that three people could not take out one... especially when Jet Pack announces its presence.

Who said using Sprint would have meant they had to give up control? They could Sprint a short distance to avoid a grenade.

If they were all out of power weapons, why did they not prep for this? Why was one guy not glancing at the sky now and then? His advantage was negated by numbers and the other team already having the high ground.

  • 07.02.2011 7:26 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Darkside Eric
You said "things weren't Halo." Thing is... all the elements I named, including the blanket "new elements post Halo CE" were integrated to be a part of Halo. Armor Abilities are just another integration.
Technically, every thing in a Halo game is Halo.

-Button Glitches in Halo 2.
-Consistent host reset/power weapon reset in Reach
-SMG starts in Halo 2.
-AR starts in general
-Revenant's increased bullet magnetism

If crap is integrated into a Halo game, I'm not considering it Halo, no matter how technically untrue that may be.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Yes, MLG has variety because they train to be different while retaining some base techniques and behaviors.
I don't see your point. If these regular human beings who play each other hundreds and hundreds of times can retain excitement and variety in their games, so can the other regular human beings in matchmaking who will most likely never face the same people twice.

[Edited on 07.02.2011 7:29 PM PDT]

  • 07.02.2011 7:27 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Phynixblack
I support Darkside Eric.

He is pretty much right.
Nope-- remember "this thread is a waste of time". Sorry, stop wasting your time.

  • 07.02.2011 7:28 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Darkside Eric
They couldn't predict the unpredictable?

They know Jet Pack is a selectable Armor Ability. That instantly, instantly should make them aware that it could be picked at any time and to prep for it.
There is no possible play style that allows you to be prepared for all 5 AA's at once. Therefore, it's a guessing game as to which AA's the other team will pick.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
You're also implying that, to "fan out" means you have to give up ring control. You are also kind of excluding the fact that three people could not take out one... especially when Jet Pack announces its presence.
The minimum amount of people usually needed to control Rings is 3. Take out 1, the control is wounded, take out 2, the control is just held on by a thread. Getting grenades on people in Ring 2 is extremely easy as a Jetpacker above. If he's unable to get two of them at least 1-shot, he's really terrible. Being 1-shot in Ring 2 is essentially (in most instances) equal to being dead.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Who said using Sprint would have meant they had to give up control? They could Sprint a short distance to avoid a grenade.
That's impossible. If someone has good grenade placement as a Jetpacker above, you're not going to be able to look forward and Sprint quick enough to avoid their grenade(s). They'll probably shoot you while you're Sprinting for that short distance too.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
If they were all out of power weapons, why did they not prep for this? Why was one guy not glancing at the sky now and then? His advantage was negated by numbers and the other team already having the high ground.
In a perfect world..

  • 07.02.2011 7:35 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Darkside Eric
You said "things weren't Halo." Thing is... all the elements I named, including the blanket "new elements post Halo CE" were integrated to be a part of Halo. Armor Abilities are just another integration.
Technically, every thing in a Halo game is Halo.

-Button Glitches in Halo 2.
-Consistent host reset/power weapon reset in Reach
-SMG starts in Halo 2.
-AR starts in general
-Revenant's increased bullet magnetism

If crap is integrated into a Halo game, I'm not considering it Halo, no matter how technically untrue that may be.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Yes, MLG has variety because they train to be different while retaining some base techniques and behaviors.
I don't see your point. If these regular human beings who play each other hundreds and hundreds of times can retain excitement and variety in their games, so can the other regular human beings in matchmaking who will most likely never face the same people twice.


So then... why is your "Halo" supposed to be the one others follow? What makes Halo "Halo" is determined not by you, or me, but by Bungie and now 343i. If you pick and choose what is and isn't "Halo" you're doing it completely with a biased opinion.

The reason MLG stays exciting for those involved is largely due to the competition and the prize. The difference between MLG excitement and variety and "regular people's" excitement and variety is usually MLG's is completely trained for.

If you go into a match against me once but never face me again, you may potentially never train for something I had killed you with because it was a random match. If you then faced me days or weeks later in another single match and kill you the same way, you might pick up on it, you may even research it to learn it yourself.

If it was MLG, it wouldn't be a random match. If it was you against me for five games each day, you would pick up on things much faster and die to my habits much less than if we were randoms. We would then have to learn how to overcome each other. That's what makes it more interesting than regular play.

  • 07.02.2011 7:37 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Darkside Eric
So then... why is your "Halo" supposed to be the one others follow? What makes Halo "Halo" is determined not by you, or me, but by Bungie and now 343i. If you pick and choose what is and isn't "Halo" you're doing it completely with a biased opinion.
So then Halo 2 SMG starts are pure Halo? Which reasoning is more flawed?
Posted by: Darkside Eric
The reason MLG stays exciting for those involved is largely due to the competition and the prize. The difference between MLG excitement and variety and "regular people's" excitement and variety is usually MLG's is completely trained for.

If you go into a match against me once but never face me again, you may potentially never train for something I had killed you with because it was a random match. If you then faced me days or weeks later in another single match and kill you the same way, you might pick up on it, you may even research it to learn it yourself.

If it was MLG, it wouldn't be a random match. If it was you against me for five games each day, you would pick up on things much faster and die to my habits much less than if we were randoms. We would then have to learn how to overcome each other. That's what makes it more interesting than regular play.
Just because they're trained to play differently and execute variety, and that they have a better environment to do so in, does not exclude me from experiencing the exact same things.

  • 07.02.2011 7:45 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Darkside Eric
They couldn't predict the unpredictable?

They know Jet Pack is a selectable Armor Ability. That instantly, instantly should make them aware that it could be picked at any time and to prep for it.
There is no possible play style that allows you to be prepared for all 5 AA's at once. Therefore, it's a guessing game as to which AA's the other team will pick.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
You're also implying that, to "fan out" means you have to give up ring control. You are also kind of excluding the fact that three people could not take out one... especially when Jet Pack announces its presence.
The minimum amount of people usually needed to control Rings is 3. Take out 1, the control is wounded, take out 2, the control is just held on by a thread. Getting grenades on people in Ring 2 is extremely easy as a Jetpacker above. If he's unable to get two of them at least 1-shot, he's really terrible. Being 1-shot in Ring 2 is essentially (in most instances) equal to being dead.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
Who said using Sprint would have meant they had to give up control? They could Sprint a short distance to avoid a grenade.
That's impossible. If someone has good grenade placement as a Jetpacker above, you're not going to be able to look forward and Sprint quick enough to avoid their grenade(s). They'll probably shoot you while you're Sprinting for that short distance too.
Posted by: Darkside Eric
If they were all out of power weapons, why did they not prep for this? Why was one guy not glancing at the sky now and then? His advantage was negated by numbers and the other team already having the high ground.
In a perfect world..


Your first point is where I believe you are the most faulty.

A single pair of eyes can watch for incoming players, a single person can make the call out "Player A Sprinting down X courtyard," "Player B Jet Packing up to south ledge," etc.

In games where Jet Pack is involved I always look up at least once every few seconds, just in case. And I'm not that good of a player.

And this Asylum discussion can be taken back to the original argument.

There are maps in which vehicles make taking or holding map control easier. Armor Abilities are now a part of Halo that can make taking or holding map control easier. Because you could easily say that once Team A had map control, if someone died they could then choose Jet Pack and make the portion of the map they control even easier to control.

  • 07.02.2011 7:46 PM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Phynixblack
I support Darkside Eric.

He is pretty much right.
Nope-- remember "this thread is a waste of time". Sorry, stop wasting your time.


Vindictus servers are down and APB is lagging like crazy at the moment.

I'll waste my time were I please, at the very least until I can go back to hunting polar bears.

  • 07.02.2011 7:47 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Darkside Eric
So then... why is your "Halo" supposed to be the one others follow? What makes Halo "Halo" is determined not by you, or me, but by Bungie and now 343i. If you pick and choose what is and isn't "Halo" you're doing it completely with a biased opinion.
So then Halo 2 SMG starts are pure Halo? Which reasoning is more flawed?
Posted by: Darkside Eric
The reason MLG stays exciting for those involved is largely due to the competition and the prize. The difference between MLG excitement and variety and "regular people's" excitement and variety is usually MLG's is completely trained for.

If you go into a match against me once but never face me again, you may potentially never train for something I had killed you with because it was a random match. If you then faced me days or weeks later in another single match and kill you the same way, you might pick up on it, you may even research it to learn it yourself.

If it was MLG, it wouldn't be a random match. If it was you against me for five games each day, you would pick up on things much faster and die to my habits much less than if we were randoms. We would then have to learn how to overcome each other. That's what makes it more interesting than regular play.
Just because they're trained to play differently and execute variety, and that they have a better environment to do so in, does not exclude me from experiencing the exact same things.


What is "pure" Halo? Why is your definition more important than mine, or Goat's or Spartain Ken's, or moar, or Irie, or Paragon, or Sage's, or Frank's, or Marty's?

No, it doesn't exclude you from it at all. However it may not happen to you as often as it does to them.

  • 07.02.2011 7:48 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Darkside Eric
What is "pure" Halo? Why is your definition more important than mine, or Goat's or Spartain Ken's, or moar, or Irie, or Paragon, or Sage's, or Frank's, or Marty's?

No, it doesn't exclude you from it at all. However it may not happen to you as often as it does to them.
Good question, I guess.

However, which logic is more flawed;

-Whatever Bungie does to Halo is Halo.
-Personal/General bias/opinions of the community decide what's Halo

They're both very flawed, honestly. Though, which would I be inclined to go with more (rhetorical)?

[Edited on 07.02.2011 7:51 PM PDT]

  • 07.02.2011 7:51 PM PDT

Why does my Spartan have a pink stripe?

In memory of a friend.
090408.

Wow, really? This got reported?

All the threads that tell the truth get shot down.

  • 07.02.2011 7:54 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

fkn Reachtards.

wow, do the retards not understand that this thread does not break any rules?

herp your derps some mooar.

  • 07.02.2011 7:55 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Darkside Eric
What is "pure" Halo? Why is your definition more important than mine, or Goat's or Spartain Ken's, or moar, or Irie, or Paragon, or Sage's, or Frank's, or Marty's?

No, it doesn't exclude you from it at all. However it may not happen to you as often as it does to them.
Good question, I guess.

However, which logic is more flawed;

-Whatever Bungie does to Halo is Halo.
-Personal/General bias/opinions of the community decide what's Halo

They're both very flawed, honestly. Though, which would I be inclined to go with more (rhetorical)?


The reason I lean more towards he "whatever Bungie does to Halo is Halo" is because I myself am going into game development.

If I create something from the ground up, if I had the idea, if I made it work, if I made it well enough that other people liked it... why is my say not the final one?

There is zero problem with us disagreeing or agreeing with Bungie, or 343i soon, but at the end of the day they are the ones in control, they are the ones who are actually creating the IP and they are the ones who have a direction in mind for it.

If we provide good ideas, they may change their direction. At the same time, what we may think are good ideas they could flat out not like.

  • 07.02.2011 7:56 PM PDT


Posted by: Darkside Eric

The reason I lean more towards he "whatever Bungie does to Halo is Halo" is because I myself am going into game development.

If I create something from the ground up, if I had the idea, if I made it work, if I made it well enough that other people liked it... why is my say not the final one?

There is zero problem with us disagreeing or agreeing with Bungie, or 343i soon, but at the end of the day they are the ones in control, they are the ones who are actually creating the IP and they are the ones who have a direction in mind for it.

If we provide good ideas, they may change their direction. At the same time, what we may think are good ideas they could flat out not like.


QFT

  • 07.02.2011 7:58 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: Zomechin
Good question, I guess.

However, which logic is more flawed;

-Whatever Bungie does to Halo is Halo.
-Personal/General bias/opinions of the community decide what's Halo

They're both very flawed, honestly. Though, which would I be inclined to go with more (rhetorical)?


The reason I lean more towards he "whatever Bungie does to Halo is Halo" is because I myself am going into game development.

If I create something from the ground up, if I had the idea, if I made it work, if I made it well enough that other people liked it... why is my say not the final one?

There is zero problem with us disagreeing or agreeing with Bungie, or 343i soon, but at the end of the day they are the ones in control, they are the ones who are actually creating the IP and they are the ones who have a direction in mind for it.

If we provide good ideas, they may change their direction. At the same time, what we may think are good ideas they could flat out not like.
So, I think we just mostly ended our debate in partial agreement. Haha.

They're in control, what they say goes, it's their game.

But, at the end of the day, I have an opinion, I will express it, and if many agree and the devs eventually do also, something may get changed.

  • 07.02.2011 8:01 PM PDT

Flash Kicks beat Armor Lock.

TheLab.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: Darkside Eric

Posted by: Zomechin
Good question, I guess.

However, which logic is more flawed;

-Whatever Bungie does to Halo is Halo.
-Personal/General bias/opinions of the community decide what's Halo

They're both very flawed, honestly. Though, which would I be inclined to go with more (rhetorical)?


The reason I lean more towards he "whatever Bungie does to Halo is Halo" is because I myself am going into game development.

If I create something from the ground up, if I had the idea, if I made it work, if I made it well enough that other people liked it... why is my say not the final one?

There is zero problem with us disagreeing or agreeing with Bungie, or 343i soon, but at the end of the day they are the ones in control, they are the ones who are actually creating the IP and they are the ones who have a direction in mind for it.

If we provide good ideas, they may change their direction. At the same time, what we may think are good ideas they could flat out not like.
So, I think we just mostly ended our debate in partial agreement. Haha.

They're in control, what they say goes, it's their game.

But, at the end of the day, I have an opinion, I will express it, and if many agree and the devs eventually do also, something may get changed.


And that's how it should be.

While I am in college and when I graduate and enter back into the gaming industry, I am going to listen to opinions... it would be idiotic not to. If you think something I do sucks, I want to know why. If you love something, please tell me exactly why.

These are the discussions I like. This is why I still come to Bnet despite not really liking Halo anymore. And I thank you for the good discussion. :)

  • 07.02.2011 8:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
LOL, real rap is not made for you, white people.

We don't expect you to "get it." And you don't, as you've made abundantly clear through your numerous embarrassing dances, karaoke performances, ignorant haters, and pitiful imitators.

You giving your opinion on rap is like a dog watching TV. It's kind of cute because it LOOKS like he knows what's going on, but you know he really has no actual ability to comprehend it.

I HATE SWORD BLOCK

  • 07.02.2011 8:05 PM PDT