Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Poll [35 votes]: Do you want Bungie more involved in HaloCE?
  • Poll [35 votes]: Do you want Bungie more involved in HaloCE?
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Subject: Do you want bungie more involved in HaloCE?
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Poll: Do you want Bungie more involved in HaloCE?  [closed]
Yes:  77%
(27 Votes)
No:  23%
(8 Votes)
Total Votes: 35

Poll is simple as the question and title.

  • 09.01.2004 5:00 PM PDT
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Simply put, yes, its still Bungie's game and afaik they haven't been helping Gearbox along too well. It would be really nice if the publisher supported the game along with the developer, instead of just letting the developer go it alone while the publisher moved on forgetting that they were leaving legions of fans in their buggy, yes still salvagable, dust known as Halo PC/CE.

[Edited on 9/1/2004 5:15:56 PM]

  • 09.01.2004 5:04 PM PDT
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Actually, Microsoft I believe is the publisher, Bungie was just the developer, and Gearbox the porter. It is Bungie's game, which is the problem with Gearbox, unless their new game is actually made by them, they'll never experience what its like to make a game, just take an existing game and make it run on a new platform. How can you possibly feel attached to a story or concept that isn't even yours? Sure, both sides, Gearbox chose that line and should make extra effort knowing what they started, then again you can't expect the devotion Bungie puts in (such as tattooing yourself with a release date)

  • 09.01.2004 5:24 PM PDT
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I believe this to be true as well. However, it is understandable that Bungie has done nothing to aid Gearbox in the last few months, as most employees are working insane overtime hours on Halo 2. Also, I think technically Microsoft is the publisher of Halo. Bungie was just the original developer. That's a minor detail, but once this game is released, these companies have no excuse whatsoever in lending a helping hand to the many suffering, dedicated fans of Halo on the PC platform (in the form of Halo Custom Edition).

Yes, HCE is a Gearbox baby, but a damned cool baby that any relatives should be proud to support.

Edit: woops Phopojijo, you beat me to the MS thing while I was typing.

[Edited on 9/1/2004 5:40:17 PM]

  • 09.01.2004 5:38 PM PDT
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Bungie developed Halo Xbox, as far as I know Bungie and Microsoft worked as a joint entity when publishing Halo PC. I could be wrong, perhaps Bungie was the middle man and Gearbox was in contact with MGS. Either way, Bungie/Microsoft needs to start taking responsibility for the software they publish. This game has the most dedicated community ever, ANY other game would be dead and long gone by now, and thats the truth. Hundreds of people still visit the forums at Gearbox forums, we still get 100 people at peak times, and for a developer thats pretty good. This game could have, and still can be as big as CounterStrike, because the fan support is there. The game, however, is not. So lets get this ball rolling. Lots of us Halo fans have been posting at Gearbox's forums and haven't really been voicing our opinions here... Halo CE has been Gearbox's blessing, and curse. Time for Bungie to share the load.

  • 09.01.2004 5:44 PM PDT
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I have no doubt in mind mind that say hypothetically we got a patch *poof*. All halo related forums and sites would be set a blaze. Forums would be spammed about news of the first HaloCE patch. Player numbers would probably reach new time highs and servers would be packed and/or have to shut down. Thats basically how the community works. We have lurkers just reading, we have trolls who post negative things that we have all heard, then we have us the diehards. Once a patch comes it seems like everyone was behind gearbox from the start. People who post "gearbox you [censored] screwed us" to "You guys pull a miracle out good job" sigh sad ways of the gearbox forums.

  • 09.01.2004 7:32 PM PDT
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the pc versions of Halo deserve A lot more than what they've been getting.... people have spent 50 dollars to buy halo, only to have half-assed support by gearbox, microsoft, and bungie. They have an obligation to improve the game, iron out bugs. imo, it its current state, haloPC should be sold for $10. GB, MS and Bungie don't deserve money for a flawed game that they refuse to support.

  • 09.01.2004 7:58 PM PDT
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Mmmmm, I think Bungie should give GBX the rights to fix things as they please without having to ask every time they want to change some little thing. I think this would allow GBX to just release what they (multiple offers have been made to host the patch for them) have so far, and make new fixes as the community grows.

The only other way to do things would be to make Custom Edtion mandatory to Halo PC, I know 200 megs is a bit much for some people to download, but if they can play PC online reasonably then they can certainly manage a 200 meg download. All else this would require is compatabilty with the old single player maps so they would not have to be part of the download that way.

  • 09.01.2004 8:20 PM PDT
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Bungie isnt going to give GB that much hold on the patches. Besides that would make it so bungie doesnt have to have anything to do with HaloCE thats not what we want. We want bungie to get involved and help out, halo 2 mode or not this game is still halo.

  • 09.01.2004 8:33 PM PDT
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You forget young padawan, Halo 2 mode is in everything, it is all around us, it binds us together.

Translation: Yer not gettin Bungie involvment 'til after Halo 2. It's about as probable as GBX giving us a patch. Sorry for the negativity, but it's time for me to get off the computer and I always get cranky when that happens.

  • 09.01.2004 8:38 PM PDT
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Bungie MUST help Geabox further the development of Halo CE. I mean... damn, it has so much potential. We are asking you to start off slowly, with a few fixes, then perhaps more people wll join, and then you release an even larger patch. WE NEED THIS BUNGIE.

  • 09.01.2004 8:56 PM PDT
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as i stated over at gearbox...

"ya no, if they'd just go back to the frickin xbox netcode, where its ment for broadband users and since halo CE is a huge file anyway, most 56kers cant even get it. yeh they can get it by other means, but who cares, it'll be like counterstrike, but with a MUCH better game!!!"

wether it was xbox's netcode, or xbox connect's netcode, either way, it frickin worked. there was no leading, no warping, and if there ever was lag, it'd just pause for a second and get back to its flow. never once did i see warping like halo pc/ce. why not give us broadband users what we paid for, the worlds best computer game of all time. the only thing stopping it is the netcode!





oh and, if anybody from bungie is reading this, i've been planning on applying as a character animator for a while, if ya want u can check me up on the gearbox forums, but i'll be releasing a trailer for the halo 2 maps/mod shortly. it'd be extremely wonderful if you guys could actually make an announcment on halo.bungie.net, and i'm SURE it'd boost halo pc sales with that one trailer alone.

[Edited on 9/1/2004 9:15:57 PM]

  • 09.01.2004 9:14 PM PDT
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Agree with Deth.

  • 09.01.2004 9:20 PM PDT
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i agree too... but like, why cant they hire me to replace sum1 that can go fix up halo ce? hehe... even tho i'd be character animator not a programmer... i dont have them 1337 h4x0r skilz... heck i can hardly open the HEK w/o confusing myself, its a wonder that i've gotten animating w/ max down to a science.

  • 09.01.2004 9:37 PM PDT
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Who voted no for not wanting some form of bungie involvement (not total dedication mind you just having a guy there to review gearbox's patch ideas and what they do,which is what gb needs) Can you post your reasons?

  • 09.02.2004 2:13 PM PDT
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I dont think that we will much support from bungie even after halo 2 because with downloadable content they will probably be hard at work improving halo 2 rather than a game that has less value to them

  • 09.02.2004 6:38 PM PDT
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A game that has less value to them?

Um... sorry... thats not excuse not to help Gearbox support it.

"Um, sorry Davie, but you can't go to college because your sister has more value to us than you. Sorry."

We spent the same amount on HaloPC as people will be spending on Halo2. We're just as valuable business to Bungie as Halo2 users are. The fact that Microsoft quick released HaloPC and tried to move onto Halo2 without worrying about supporting it just shows you how much they value their customers who use their products. Remember back in March or April, we spammed their support email lines over and over, and got a petetion with over 1000 signatures on it, only after that did Halo PC finally get some people working on it on the Microsoft/Bungie side of things. I mean, how sad is that? The fans need to spam a company's support email address to get them to help support their game? I don't care how incompetent Gearbox may be as developers, when you need to do that to get a peep out of the publishers and the owners of the rights to the game, you know you're getting jack in the way of support.

  • 09.02.2004 6:53 PM PDT
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Although I believe it is not Bungie's job to handle HaloCE, I believe that if they got involved with it, that CE would be enjoyed by many more people.

(new to these forums :) )

  • 09.02.2004 7:58 PM PDT
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heh, we got a gearbox party now!

i definently think bungie should get more involved. bungie really cares about their fans and what not, unlike gearbox who wont even release one single freakin patch. first they screw up one of the greatest games of all time, then they make an even more screwed up version for custom content, and now they are just gonna sit and let halo CE rott to death. if bungie got more involved, i bet they can work on a patch.
bungies a huge company, i dont think they need every member working on H2, even though h2 is very important.
if bungie could let not even 1/4 of their employees work with haloCE, we could get this freakin patch. if we get a patch to fix minor things, small things, then we could get more people to come to ce.
i still think that gearbox saying "get 1,000 players at a peak time, we'll releae a patch" was the most idiotic thing they can say. you expect 1,000 people to play a game with some huge and minor bugs? release a patch, THEN get 1,000 people.

i think bungie understands that concept, unlike gearbox who's world is upsidedown.

  • 09.03.2004 12:09 PM PDT
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I totally agree, but remember it’s not gearbox’s fault they are caught between Bungie and Microsoft, Bungie are working on Halo 2 and gearbox is very small and they are busy on Bothers in Arms.

I agree CE is packed full of potential if only more people downloaded it. If CE was to become a mandatory update it wouldn’t take that long to download it, bare in mind the lowest broadband spec is something like 300k it would only take about 1 hr or so. Also remember not many 56krs can play halo online anyway.

But I have another idea, when it says checking for updates why not have it say optional update available, download this update (yes) (no) and in a weeks time it says it again.

The main reason why people don’t play CE is threes not enough members, lots of people have it, but don’t use it because of the lack of players.

I also have another idea, take the best maps and the new features (not the custom map part) and add it to a patch for halo, at least that way we are getting something.

In conclusion
Only time will tell, what the future holds for Halo CE.

  • 09.04.2004 3:30 AM PDT
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What I would really like is for Bungie to be more involved with HaloPC (don't care about CE). It would be awesome if after Halo 2 Bungie would dedicate a smallish team (say, 5 people? I don't know) to go back and fix HaloPC in all the ways that Gearbox screwed it up, i.e. lag, warping, more lag, stupid bugs, lag, and lag. Maybe even get the HEK working with PC (if possible)? That would be awesome. Perhaps even adding some of the standard features for PC FPSes that HaloPC still lacks (demo recording, spectator mode, etc). How awesome would it be for HaloPC 1.06 to be a new version of HaloPC fixed by Bungie themselves? :)

This game had so much potential. It should have been one of the top PC FPSes. But Gearbox screwed it up. The netcode is a joke... an absolute joke, but GB is too proud to admit that they screwed up. Some of you people (mostly GB forumers) still believe GB's story of "it's all Bungie's fault". But frankly they have lost all credibility with me. Between hearing them badmouth Bungie's MP levels in person (talk about arrogance!) and then shifting the blame for HPC's problems to everyone but themselves (including the users), I would take everything they say with a huge grain of salt. Bungie knows how to make games; GB has yet to prove themselves. HaloPC even lags on LAN for crying out loud.

I've been playing Unreal 2004 lately. While I don't like the gameplay as much as HaloPC, I find it amazing how little lag there is online (and no, cheating isn't much of a problem, in spite of the client side netcode), how much better it performs on the exact same hardware, and how feature-complete it is. Truly amazing after playing HaloPC for so long. It made me realize how lackluster HPC really is. It pisses me off to think of how great this game should have been if GB hadn't screwed it up so badly. They can't even do colored text. Give me a break. Think of this: what would HaloPC have been like if it had all the features and performance of UT2k4? Totally awesome! Maybe competitive teams who quit Halo because of the ridiculous, inexcusable lag on LAN would come back and revive competitive Halo! How freaking cool would that be for HaloPC to have a $50k purse at an upcoming CPL?

I used to defend them, but obviously I've changed my mind, especially after seeing HaloCE. At this point, I wouldn't touch a Gearbox product with a 10 foot pole, and I will advise everyone I know to steer clear of their inferior products. They screwed up my favorite game. As the adage goes, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
</rant>

Bungie, please.... so many people love this game to death and want to play it on the PC with a mouse and keyboard, making new maps and mods, etc. A million people bought it for the PC with high hopes. Please consider saving this game and making it into the total awesomeness that it should have been in the first place had Bungie ported it themselves! One step closer to Bungie World Domination! :-)

  • 09.07.2004 2:17 AM PDT
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Get ready for a long one

Maybe even get the HEK working with PC (if possible)?
Part of the reason of CE was to be able to use the HEK if im not mistaken.

But Gearbox screwed it up. The netcode is a joke... an absolute joke, but GB is too proud to admit that they screwed up. Some of you people (mostly GB forumers) still believe GB's story of "it's all Bungie's fault".
I could be wrong but I dont blame it all on Bungie. From what I have heard this conversion by Gearbox was rushed. Thats one factor. Another factor was the timing, Bungie is in Uber Halo 2 mode meaning resources for testing Halo PC patches were scarce. HaloPC has its pro's and cons elmo. The netcode albeit(sp?) laggy has a certain cheat proof way. I know about such wall hacks and stuff like that but I think compaired to other games I bet I can say Halo does pretty good on the no cheating level.

GB has yet to prove themselves.
*Looks at Gearbox's awards for the games they converted*

how much better it performs on the exact same hardware,
Doesnt UT2k4 use more of multitexturing or something along those lines? That could be one reason it performs better. You have got to give credit to Gearbox for trying to improve the performance with the fast shaders though. At least the tried, they could have left it right there.


Perhaps even adding some of the standard features for PC FPSes that HaloPC still lacks (demo recording, spectator mode, etc).
I could be wrong on this but is it a companey's job to add more features to a game they are only converting?

Elmo dont mistake me for trying to prove your points invalid. Im just stating my opionions on this subject. Call me a fanboy or whatever these are just my thoughts.

  • 09.07.2004 3:45 AM PDT

I could be wrong but I dont blame it all on Bungie.
How could you blame anything on Bungie? Microsoft asked Gearbox to produce the PC version. Microsoft provided the testing resources.
*Looks at Gearbox's awards for the games they converted*
They still haven't made a single original game (unless you count all those Half-Life add-on packs, and the unreleased Brothers In Arms).

  • 09.07.2004 5:15 AM PDT
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HaloPC has its pro's and cons elmo. The netcode albeit(sp?) laggy has a certain cheat proof way. I know about such wall hacks and stuff like that but I think compaired to other games I bet I can say Halo does pretty good on the no cheating level.

I don't want to go into specifics here and break the rules of the b.net forums, but HaloPC's netcode isn't as hack proof as many people think. True, it's not nearly as bad as counterstrike, but then again neither is Unreal. There are hacks for HaloPC and CE. I've seen them and talked to people who have used them, and they work even on dedicated servers. So server side netcode would almost seem to be the worst of both worlds -- ridiculous lag and warping, and still people cheat.

Unreal's method is far better. The netcode is client side, so you can (miracle of miracles) actually aim at your targets instead of shooting at thin air 3 inches ahead of them. There's a small bit of lag here and there, but it's almost unnoticable after playing HaloPC/CE for so long. Oh, and it doesn't even lag with 32 players. But there's not much problem with cheaters because Epic took such great measures to counteract them. The consequences are so high that most people don't even try (your CD key is banned from the whole online part of the game, so you're not just banned from one server). Plus many servers have anti-cheat software that you must download to play on their server. Kind of like an anti-virus software that scans your system to make sure you're clean before you join the fun. By the way, everything that you must download to play on a server happens automatically (maps, mods, anti-cheat programs, etc). So you don't have to get booted from the server, close the game, fire up the web browser, find a map hosting site, find the map you want, pray that it's the same version, download it, figure out where to extract it and put it, fire up HaloCE again, find the server you were playing in, join, and then find that after all this time that game ended and they're on a different map. Rinse and repeat.

And besides, even if there is a small amount of cheating, I'd rather have client side netcode and more people to play with (and more servers to choose from) than tons of lag and fewer players to play with (but like I said, HPC/CE isn't immune to cheaters). So Unreal's implementation seems to be a win-win solution.

Doesnt UT2k4 use more of multitexturing or something along those lines? That could be one reason it performs better. You have got to give credit to Gearbox for trying to improve the performance with the fast shaders though. At least the tried, they could have left it right there.

STB, I know all the defenses. I used to defend Gearbox until I was blue in the face. But all their excuses, er, explanations ring pretty hollow with me now. "Well, your 9800 Pro gets unplayable framerates on the indoor levels because of blah blah blah..." I put that in the same category as their excuses for the ridiculous lag. "Well, you see it's all because of the slow internet and complex physics." But I say BS because the game still lags on LAN! Slow internet?! On LAN?! CPL uses state of the art networking hardware. Complex physics? Hmm, doesn't seem to pose a problem for the Xbox's 733MHz Pentium III with 64MB of unified (i.e. combined video and system) memory. Back to graphic performance: My theory is that Gearbox didn't bother to make the indoor maps playable on even good hardware because they thought Bungie's maps sucked (these are their words, I'm not making that up). Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Damnation lags like hell on almost all video cards, so nobody plays it. Ditto for Chill Out and other indoor maps. I guess Gearbox figured "these maps blow, so nobody will want to play them. Lets not bother to make them perform well on even top of the line video hardware."

I could be wrong on this but is it a companey's job to add more features to a game they are only converting?

Maybe, maybe not. I haven't read the contract between MS and Bungie and GB. But I will say that it's not GB's job to mess up what's already there. Halo Xbox doesn't lag on LAN. HaloPC/CE does. If anything, GB should have kept the old Xbox netcode just for LAN purposes. (FWIW, the HPC beta didn't lag because it still had the Xbox netcode, except with the ability to join and quit mid-game.) Can you imagine trying to put up with the lag at a LAN tourney when there's money on the line? But Randy just shrugs it off when Warthogs warp all over the place, or the host wins in Slayer, etc. In fact, the game winning flag cap at Winter CPL was a fluke because of lag on LAN. The Warthog was trucking across the map with the flag, someone nailed it with a rocket, direct hit, it starts flipping. For all appearances, it looks like the defense stopped the flag carrier. But surprise! Suddenly the hog warps ahead, back on to all four wheels, and drives off safely for the tournament-winning flag cap. Now you tell me: how would you feel if you lost $15,000 because your rocket lagged out on LAN? I would be livid.

  • 09.07.2004 12:45 PM PDT
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Well lag issues aside after play EP's 53 server with the delagginator working properly I can honestly say there was no lag. I got pwned because I was still leading then found out mid-game that I had to shoot ON the targets to hit them. Only had one instant of warping ingame as well. As for indoor maps. Damnation is the only actually one that is just terrible to play on. Other indoor maps are fine for me. For the hacks for CE I have seen them as well. Not when playing an actual game but when letting aero test them on me and watching Korn's devmode hack video. The thing is neither of those two are doing anything to release them. They are making it a kept secret. Plus from the way you explained UT2k4's policy on cheating that seems a little too harsh. You cheat once then all that money you paid for the game is a waste now. You cant go online. I know certain features would make HaloCE better. Thats what the community is trying to do. HST and delagginator are hopefully only the start. I still have faith in the game and community.

  • 09.07.2004 2:57 PM PDT

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