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Subject: A VERY Interesting Comment By Bungie
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Methinks someone be a troll.

Using evidence from the novels? The same novels that Bungie declared non-canon with Reach? Hm...


Methinks you're an idiot. You even know what a troll does? Clearly not, but you really don't want to go down this road with me.

I don't see Reach affecting Contact Harvest...


Because Contact Harvest was written by someone from Bungie. :D

Microsoft and Bungie clearly had different ideas for the canon. For example, Bungie wanted only one Spartan left alive (Chief) which is why the others don't appear in the games. Why do you think Bungie completely ignored FoR when they made Reach?

Since Reach negates FoR you can't use any information established by the novels in-line with FoR, which means you can't use the slipspace information. You can't use selective reasoning from the novels with Reach either.

It's simply a matter of logic and royalties.


Did you even read FoR of TF? it was the chief that thought he was the last spartan. seriously during the entire novel " The flood" he talks about how he is the only one left, nothing is wrong the with canon in that, it was just speaking directly from chiefs limited knowledge.

Where the hell do you get off saying "what we can and can't use" as canon? how about you provide links and sources for statements when you blurt things out unless nothing you say is going to be held credible.

Logic and royalties" more like arrogance and fallacies

  • 07.05.2011 5:02 AM PDT

READ IT.

I won the Star. With this on Week 18.


Posted by: SonicJohn
It is my honest opinion that I do not believe 343i will treat any of Bungie's games' storylines and characters (other than Chief/Cortana) to any future appearances. I just don't believe it. They'll probably concentrate on the story they've set up in their novels. Specifically Ghosts of Onyx.

The reason we haven't heard anything else regarding that is probably because they weren't allowed to do much more with it until they were sure they owned the Halo IP.

I suspect Microsoft asked Bungie to make another trilogy about post-H3 regarding the other Spartans, and they refused. Hence the split.

Wasn't the Microsoft-Bungie ownership contact only for 10 years anyway?

I am sure it was, and Microsoft just didn't renew it for another 10 years, and took Halo because they owned it anyways.

Microsoft bought Halo when they bought Bungie, because wasn't it Microsoft, not Bungie, who made the release date of Halo 2 and rushed Bungie?

  • 07.05.2011 5:43 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Methinks someone be a troll.

Using evidence from the novels? The same novels that Bungie declared non-canon with Reach? Hm...


Methinks you're an idiot. You even know what a troll does? Clearly not, but you really don't want to go down this road with me.

I don't see Reach affecting Contact Harvest...


Because Contact Harvest was written by someone from Bungie. :D

Microsoft and Bungie clearly had different ideas for the canon. For example, Bungie wanted only one Spartan left alive (Chief) which is why the others don't appear in the games. Why do you think Bungie completely ignored FoR when they made Reach?

Since Reach negates FoR you can't use any information established by the novels in-line with FoR, which means you can't use the slipspace information. You can't use selective reasoning from the novels with Reach either.

It's simply a matter of logic and royalties.


Did you even read FoR of TF? it was the chief that thought he was the last spartan. seriously during the entire novel " The flood" he talks about how he is the only one left, nothing is wrong the with canon in that, it was just speaking directly from chiefs limited knowledge.

Where the hell do you get off saying "what we can and can't use" as canon? how about you provide links and sources for statements when you blurt things out unless nothing you say is going to be held credible.

Logic and royalties" more like arrogance and fallacies


If Bungie wanted other Spartans, they would have done the same thing they did with Reach, and bend the canon. But since they didn't, it makes it quite evident that they only wanted one Spartan in the first place. It was Microsoft that ordered for an expanded Star War-level universe. Bungie only approved the novels as canon because they supposed they might as well, since at the time, the books and games were still separate. Until Reach, that is, which is why Bungie disregarded FoR, and took the story in their own direction.

  • 07.05.2011 7:18 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Microsoft and Bungie clearly had different ideas for the canon. For example, Bungie wanted only one Spartan left alive (Chief) which is why the others don't appear in the games. Why do you think Bungie completely ignored FoR when they made Reach?

So Bungie did not want anymore Spartans other than the Chief, so made a game with 6 Spartans in it anyway?

And you will provide a link to the statement where Bungie expressed this wish to have Chief as the only Spartan.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Since Reach negates FoR you can't use any information established by the novels in-line with FoR, which means you can't use the slipspace information. You can't use selective reasoning from the novels with Reach either.

Books and games were written from material in the story bible. Why is that suddenly some material in that book is more valuable because it is put in a game? What, is page 11 "better" than page 9 or 8 in the HSB or something, thus requiring a game to show that?

I can fully picture it now: The Halo Story bible with multicoloured pages. Red pages are non-canon, but will be sold in novels anyway. Blue is canon, but novels only so therefore are not worth much, and green is absolute game canon, which for some reason is arbitrarily selected. Canon hierarchy in which everything comes from the same source is a ridiculous concept.

Here is something: Without the novels, can you explain to me why the Covenant are attacking Humanity? Without the novels, can you even write an OPs worth about a character? Without the novels, can you explain to me where Noble Team come from?

  • 07.05.2011 7:37 AM PDT

Posted by: Enormous Corgi
Posted by: Unanimate Objec
There's no way Nate Hawbaker's favorite hero is Alan Stuart


ALAN IS A BEAUTIFUL MAN!

No way he couldve survived

  • 07.05.2011 7:41 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Microsoft and Bungie clearly had different ideas for the canon. For example, Bungie wanted only one Spartan left alive (Chief) which is why the others don't appear in the games. Why do you think Bungie completely ignored FoR when they made Reach?

So Bungie did not want anymore Spartans other than the Chief, so made a game with 6 Spartans in it anyway?

And you will provide a link to the statement where Bungie expressed this wish to have Chief as the only Spartan.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Since Reach negates FoR you can't use any information established by the novels in-line with FoR, which means you can't use the slipspace information. You can't use selective reasoning from the novels with Reach either.

Books and games were written from material in the story bible. Why is that suddenly some material in that book is more valuable because it is put in a game? What, is page 11 "better" than page 9 or 8 in the HSB or something, thus requiring a game to show that?

I can fully picture it now: The Halo Story bible with multicoloured pages. Red pages are non-canon, but will be sold in novels anyway. Blue is canon, but novels only so therefore are not worth much, and green is absolute game canon, which for some reason is arbitrarily selected. Canon hierarchy in which everything comes from the same source is a ridiculous concept.

Here is something: Without the novels, can you explain to me why the Covenant are attacking Humanity? Without the novels, can you even write an OPs worth about a character? Without the novels, can you explain to me where Noble Team come from?


Ah, I can negate your first point. Noble Team was obliterated in that game, so it doesn't matter anyway.

There's no video where Bungie says that they only wanted one Spartan left alive, but there is plently of evidence --which I pointed out-- that points toward that explanation.

There are two reason why Game canon > Book canon.
One, Bungie wrote the Halo story, and the series was first thought up as a game franchise.
Two, Halo is known for the games, not the obscure little books; there are more fans for the games than the books.

(to your last paragraph) I never said that the Halo storytelling was good. In fact, it's really half-assed and broken.

[Edited on 07.05.2011 7:44 AM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 7:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

please read the books it was john that thought he was the only spartan.


Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

The games have gameplay elements that can not be canon not to mention story elements that are left out for games sake, which is why the games and books have to work together.

Books are the main source of knowledge and canon where the game expands off that.

  • 07.05.2011 7:46 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
please read the books it was john that thought he was the only spartan.


Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

The games have gameplay elements that can not be canon not to mention story elements that are left out for games sake, which is why the games and books have to work together.

Books are the main source of knowledge and canon where the game expands off that.


And that's not good. At all.
If the franchise is most known for its games, and the important story elements are told through the books, then tell me, how is that a good method to tell a story?

Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

It's called logic.

[Edited on 07.05.2011 7:49 AM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 7:48 AM PDT

READ IT.

I won the Star. With this on Week 18.


Posted by: grey101
please read the books it was john that thought he was the only spartan.


Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

The games have gameplay elements that can not be canon not to mention story elements that are left out for games sake, which is why the games and books have to work together.

Books are the main source of knowledge and canon where the game expands off that.

And yet... Halo CE came first... first in first serve.

The books should follow the games...

  • 07.05.2011 7:50 AM PDT


Posted by: Alex the Awesome

Posted by: grey101
please read the books it was john that thought he was the only spartan.


Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

The games have gameplay elements that can not be canon not to mention story elements that are left out for games sake, which is why the games and books have to work together.

Books are the main source of knowledge and canon where the game expands off that.

And yet... Halo CE came first... first in first serve.

The books should follow the games...


Instead now, it's the other way around. Kind of contradictory to my whole argument, but that just shows what a mess the Halo games, fanbase, and story have become. Not to say that it wasn't already like that as soon as the novels came out.

[Edited on 07.05.2011 7:52 AM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 7:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101
please read the books it was john that thought he was the only spartan.


Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

The games have gameplay elements that can not be canon not to mention story elements that are left out for games sake, which is why the games and books have to work together.

Books are the main source of knowledge and canon where the game expands off that.


And that's not good. At all.
If the franchise is most known for its games, and the important story elements are told through the books, then tell me, how is that a good method to tell a story?

Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

It's called logic.


The franchise is known for the game but do you really think IGN and the other stations actually have a depth understanding of the game? no, they play it get the gist of it and that is it. Which is the same for the average gamer, the games aren't the main source but they are tied with the books.

Which is exactly why people that read GoO are more into halo 4 than the people that just play the games or improperly read the books.


Logic? So a plasma pistol shot to the face doing nothing is canon, SIIs only being able to jump 6 feet is canon,chief being able to flip a tank is canon,being able to drive a vehicle in 3rd person is canon.

That is terrible logic.

Um TfoR came out 2 week before CE and eric was told he needed to finish it in 7 weeks so the game has a backstory for the events

[Edited on 07.05.2011 7:56 AM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 7:54 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Alex the Awesome

Posted by: grey101
please read the books it was john that thought he was the only spartan.


Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

The games have gameplay elements that can not be canon not to mention story elements that are left out for games sake, which is why the games and books have to work together.

Books are the main source of knowledge and canon where the game expands off that.

And yet... Halo CE came first... first in first serve.

The books should follow the games...


Instead now, it's the other way around. Kind of contradictory to my whole argument, but that just shows what a mess the Halo games, fanbase, and story have become. Not to say that it wasn't already like that as soon as the novels came out.


You know what the first ever piece of Halo canon was? The Fall of Reach, a month before CE came out. So the series was messed up before CE even came out then?

  • 07.05.2011 7:54 AM PDT

READ IT.

I won the Star. With this on Week 18.


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Alex the Awesome

Posted by: grey101
please read the books it was john that thought he was the only spartan.


Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

The games have gameplay elements that can not be canon not to mention story elements that are left out for games sake, which is why the games and books have to work together.

Books are the main source of knowledge and canon where the game expands off that.

And yet... Halo CE came first... first in first serve.

The books should follow the games...


Instead now, it's the other way around. Kind of contradictory to my whole argument, but that just shows what a mess the Halo games, fanbase, and story have become. Not to say that it wasn't already like that as soon as the novels came out.

Yah know, why are people so upset over this? Bungie can't change it... why bother arguing...

Anyways, Halo Reach was made over 3 years... the novel Fall of Reach was written in seven weeks... which shows that the novelist either rushed it, or he milked Joseph Staten and Jason Jones for ideas and information like no tomorrow and then just made sense of it all in 7 weeks.

  • 07.05.2011 8:04 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Alex the Awesom
Yah know, why are people so upset over this? Bungie can't change it... why bother arguing...

Anyways, Halo Reach was made over 3 years... the novel Fall of Reach was written in seven weeks... which shows that the novelist either rushed it, or he milked Joseph Staten and Jason Jones for ideas and information like no tomorrow and then just made sense of it all in 7 weeks.


Have you read the Fall of Reach? It wasn't rushed at all, 7 weeks is a fair amount of time to write a 200/300 page novel.

  • 07.05.2011 8:09 AM PDT

If you're reading this, then you have clicked on my name somewhere. I have Xbox LIVE and my gamertag is The Mr Wafflezz

My warp on minecraft
Yep.

No.

  • 07.05.2011 8:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Alex the Awesome

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Alex the Awesome

Posted by: grey101
please read the books it was john that thought he was the only spartan.


Um basing "Game>Books" off the fact people play the games is childish.

The games have gameplay elements that can not be canon not to mention story elements that are left out for games sake, which is why the games and books have to work together.

Books are the main source of knowledge and canon where the game expands off that.

And yet... Halo CE came first... first in first serve.

The books should follow the games...


Instead now, it's the other way around. Kind of contradictory to my whole argument, but that just shows what a mess the Halo games, fanbase, and story have become. Not to say that it wasn't already like that as soon as the novels came out.

Yah know, why are people so upset over this? Bungie can't change it... why bother arguing...

Anyways, Halo Reach was made over 3 years... the novel Fall of Reach was written in seven weeks... which shows that the novelist either rushed it, or he milked Joseph Staten and Jason Jones for ideas and information like no tomorrow and then just made sense of it all in 7 weeks.


how ignorant are you?

we are arguing because we know what we are talking about and care about the lore.


You do know that every book writer was given "the halo bible" to write the novel? and 7 weeks (nearly 2 months) is more than enough time to write a 300 page novel.

  • 07.05.2011 8:12 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

It's pretty obvious they were joking.

  • 07.05.2011 8:24 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Ah, I can negate your first point. Noble Team was obliterated in that game, so it doesn't matter anyway.

Oh but they did want other Spartans then, but just playing the games we would never have known what was to come in Reach. The only thing you have here is that the setting allows for MC to be the last one, but you never knew before hand what Reach would involve and for how long Bungie were planning this. Therefore you cannot know what they were thinking and wanting earlier in the franchise.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
There's no video where Bungie says that they only wanted one Spartan left alive, but there is plently of evidence --which I pointed out-- that points toward that explanation.

What, this?:

If Bungie wanted other Spartans, they would have done the same thing they did with Reach, and bend the canon. But since they didn't, it makes it quite evident that they only wanted one Spartan in the first place. It was Microsoft that ordered for an expanded Star War-level universe. Bungie only approved the novels as canon because they supposed they might as well, since at the time, the books and games were still separate. Until Reach, that is, which is why Bungie disregarded FoR, and took the story in their own direction.
This is basically "Because we do not see it must mean that it definitely cannot be true". That is fallacious. I am sure that there are many things that Bungie wanted to do but could not fit into their production schedule. You have no idea what did not make the cut so stop pretending as if you do. Has it also not occurred to you that whilst the backstory was being written before CE came out (Of which TFoR is a part of and was release before CE), Bungie decided not to go to the lengths necessary to show that other Spartans survived because there was already a novel doing just that job to a much better degree?

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
There are two reason why Game canon > Book canon.
One, Bungie wrote the Halo story, and the series was first thought up as a game franchise.

That still does not solve this ridiculous double standard within the pages of one source. Perhaps the blame of absolute idiocy should be raised to Bungie themselves then. Appealing to authority, doesn't change anything.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Two, Halo is known for the games, not the obscure little books; there are more fans for the games than the books.

Well this is a blatant appeal to popularity. Most fans could care less about the story unfortunately so appealing to these people for "Game story > Book story" does not follow. Most of the fans of the story have probably at one point in their lives looked up something on Halopedia and been exposed to the extended media at one point or another. However given that you cannot produce any statistics for your argument this means nothing.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
(to your last paragraph) I never said that the Halo storytelling was good. In fact, it's really half-assed and broken.

So you are quite happy to settle for rubbish than better material just because of what some silly little canon hierarchy tells you? Are you also telling me that Bungie is in fact rubbish at telling a story, as you have said that without the novels Halo's story doesn't make a whole lot of sense? If that is the case then the canon hierarchy makes even less sense in promoting inferior material over other, quality material.

Your entire position is essentially "The evidence wut I give wut I cant source says that Bungie didnt want more Spartans and I know this because they are not there and that indicates that Bungie did not want them because I know their minds. Also the games story is rubbish without books and Bungie want rubbish story over good story."

Your talking a truckload of -blam!-.

  • 07.05.2011 8:31 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

I hope he died.

  • 07.05.2011 8:48 AM PDT

I'd only accept Jorge in Halo 4 if 343 agrees to redesign the character, aesthetically.

I don't know what Bungie was thinking when they designed Noble team. They look like Transformers combined with Power Rangers. Jorge in particular just looks clunky and fat. The Kool-Aid canister on his chest was silly.

  • 07.05.2011 9:58 AM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
They were joking. There is no logical way Jorge could have survived and I hope 343 will have the sense to never so much as mention Noble Team again.


They actually sounded serious when they were talking about the possibility of him being out there somewhere. They started acting sarcastic and joking around when they said that Jorge was at the Legendary Planet.

There is an extremely high possibility that Jorge survived, the Ardent Prayer and thus Jorge (unless he jumped off the Corvette for no apparent reason) were just transported god knows where. For all intents and purposes Jorge is dead, but it's impossible to deny the possibility that he is still alive.

  • 07.05.2011 5:33 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: ajw34307
They were joking. There is no logical way Jorge could have survived and I hope 343 will have the sense to never so much as mention Noble Team again.


They actually sounded serious when they were talking about the possibility of him being out there somewhere. They started acting sarcastic and joking around when they said that Jorge was at the Legendary Planet.

There is an extremely high possibility that Jorge survived, the Ardent Prayer and thus Jorge (unless he jumped off the Corvette for no apparent reason) were just transported god knows where. For all intents and purposes Jorge is dead, but it's impossible to deny the possibility that he is still alive.


That's just like saying it's possible for James to still be alive. Anything is "possible" in the sense the devs can do what they want, but logic dictates he is dead.

  • 07.05.2011 5:39 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: ajw34307
They were joking. There is no logical way Jorge could have survived and I hope 343 will have the sense to never so much as mention Noble Team again.


They actually sounded serious when they were talking about the possibility of him being out there somewhere. They started acting sarcastic and joking around when they said that Jorge was at the Legendary Planet.

There is an extremely high possibility that Jorge survived, the Ardent Prayer and thus Jorge (unless he jumped off the Corvette for no apparent reason) were just transported god knows where. For all intents and purposes Jorge is dead, but it's impossible to deny the possibility that he is still alive.


That's just like saying it's possible for James to still be alive. Anything is "possible" in the sense the devs can do what they want, but logic dictates he is dead.


Logically, yes, Jorge is dead, however logic won't deny the possibility, however great or slim it might be, that he may still be alive.

  • 07.05.2011 5:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

So you guys are saying jorgem other spartans, and the other thousands of humans that when into a faulty slipspace portal are alive?

This is such a scfi cliche riverworld is the first thing that comes into mind, along with stargate time travel.

  • 07.05.2011 6:23 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

Sadly, it's not possible for Jorge to survive this slip-space event with SC. Once it detonated, he's goner. There is like, 0.0001% of possibility he may be alive but highly unlikely. He knew that he is going to die. That is purely logic and acceptable to fans here.

Why bother to speculate about Jorge surviving this? Don't you know it is impossible. As Colonel Ackerson said to a ONI officer who volunteered to check out Reach in First Strike, same concept with Reach (I'm using his words to sustain a metaphor with Jorge): "Jorge is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD and Dead. All is gone. Move on!"

[Edited on 07.05.2011 6:54 PM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 6:45 PM PDT

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