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  • Subject: Bungie dialogue on Halo reach still conflicts
Subject: Bungie dialogue on Halo reach still conflicts

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: grey101
This is stupid so stupid; so the covenant randomly figured out how to mask their detection into a system?


Halsey mentions atmospheric anomalies, along with radar and slipspace monitoring glitches. So they were picked up as they entered the system and atmosphere but obviously with the "mask", Covenant were able to trick the systems.

That's my best guess at least.


This is just making the UNSC look stupid.

In the book they were able to detect something in slipspace systems away and the anomaly of the fleet arriving was recognized because the same thing happened at harvest.

So for the UNSC to brush that off is ignorant, the covenant wouldn't even do that. When you see something weird and ask your friend and they say that saw it too then it was not a mistake on your part.

When dozens of stations report "anomalies" then you should go back to drinking coffee.


The strange thing is that the anomalies were detected on the 24th according to the journal. So that means the Covenant were extremely quick and precise to locate and disable Visegrad relay.

  • 07.04.2011 4:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Something, everything is not adding up here.

Is this a response to the ONI somehow getting on high charity?

  • 07.04.2011 4:27 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...

  • 07.04.2011 4:34 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: grey101
This is stupid so stupid; so the covenant randomly figured out how to mask their detection into a system?


Halsey mentions atmospheric anomalies, along with radar and slipspace monitoring glitches. So they were picked up as they entered the system and atmosphere but obviously with the "mask", Covenant were able to trick the systems.

That's my best guess at least.


This is just making the UNSC look stupid.

In the book they were able to detect something in slipspace systems away and the anomaly of the fleet arriving was recognized because the same thing happened at harvest.

So for the UNSC to brush that off is ignorant, the covenant wouldn't even do that. When you see something weird and ask your friend and they say that saw it too then it was not a mistake on your part.

When dozens of stations report "anomalies" then you should go back to drinking coffee.


The strange thing is that the anomalies were detected on the 24th according to the journal. So that means the Covenant were extremely quick and precise to locate and disable Visegrad relay.


Unless the LNoS was the first one in the system and as stated by Slas...they were able to mask themselves from all detection, which gives the Covenant plenty of time to find the Visegrad Relay, considering how long they were on the planet. Then the stations picked up the corvettes entering the system...

Or maybe Halsey saw no point in mentioning the glitches and anomalies until she caught wind of NOBLE and Charlie Company going in, which was the 24th also.

Hmmm...

  • 07.04.2011 4:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ajw34307
Phantom Menace...


This is exactly what it is. random cloaked ships attacking reach before hand.


How can one side of the planet be burning an nobody notice that? you would have the winds blow the smoke all over the planet

  • 07.04.2011 4:37 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: ajw34307
None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...
Perhaps it would be better if they retconned it to say that Reach (the game) took place over two-three days. At least that way the dates would make some sense.

  • 07.04.2011 4:38 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Look, Bungie didn't gave a -smack- for the inner details of the Fall of Reach novel as evident by the finished product Reach.

They got a very small jist of it and got lazy developing the story. Any discrepancy between the game and the novel is not done for purposely overriding canon, but just done for cheap entertainment. Their laziness however does over-ride existing canon, one such consequence of the neglect in responsibility for a franchise.

This was the biggest tragedy of Reach IMO. Not the actual in event and atmosphere canon changes, better or worse, but the neglect and false support given by Bungie in the story department, also arguably in other aspects as well, in this game.

This is the real conflict: How after-all this, they have the final say on it.

I don't hate Bungie. In fact I think they're great, I just hate their direction post H3. I personally think that "spark" is lost. But then again that's just my opinion.

[Edited on 07.04.2011 4:45 PM PDT]

  • 07.04.2011 4:38 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: grey101
This is stupid so stupid; so the covenant randomly figured out how to mask their detection into a system?


Halsey mentions atmospheric anomalies, along with radar and slipspace monitoring glitches. So they were picked up as they entered the system and atmosphere but obviously with the "mask", Covenant were able to trick the systems.

That's my best guess at least.


This is just making the UNSC look stupid.

In the book they were able to detect something in slipspace systems away and the anomaly of the fleet arriving was recognized because the same thing happened at harvest.

So for the UNSC to brush that off is ignorant, the covenant wouldn't even do that. When you see something weird and ask your friend and they say that saw it too then it was not a mistake on your part.

When dozens of stations report "anomalies" then you should go back to drinking coffee.


The strange thing is that the anomalies were detected on the 24th according to the journal. So that means the Covenant were extremely quick and precise to locate and disable Visegrad relay.


Unless the LNoS was the first one in the system and as stated by Slas...they were able to mask themselves from all detection, which gives the Covenant plenty of time to find the Visegrad Relay, considering how long they were on the planet. Then the stations picked up the corvettes entering the system...

Or maybe Halsey saw no point in mentioning the glitches and anomalies until she caught wind of NOBLE and Charlie Company going in, which was the 24th also.

Hmmm...


According to the info from our fellow community member he states that the visual guide lists the SC having the ability to mask itself and the rest of its fleet. So its contingent of Corvettes would be masked at the same time as well.

As for the anomalies she would have picked them up regardless, more so after having read the Sigma Octanus report.

Odd...according to the Journal, the day before on the 23rd Visegrad went dark, meaning that the Covies were on the ground at the very least on the 23rd...So why was the glitch detected on the 24th?

  • 07.04.2011 4:42 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ajw34307
Phantom Menace...


This is exactly what it is. random cloaked ships attacking reach before hand.


How can one side of the planet be burning an nobody notice that? you would have the winds blow the smoke all over the planet


It's like the volcano in Iceland last year, the ash spread around multiple countries and people were stranded abroad because airlines were put on hold. But we've got multiple Corvettes just hanging around the whole planet for weeks and NOBODY noticed. Or maybe nobody cared? Certainly seems that way when I hear Corporal Travis say "the Covenant is on Reach" in such a monotonous way it actually sounds like he couldn't give a flying toss.

I'm actually struggling to keep up with this. Why was this so flawed? This is what happens when Joe Staten isn't doing anything...

  • 07.04.2011 4:49 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...


Fail to see how the Phantom Menace is so confusing.

They got a very small jist of it and got lazy developing the story. Any discrepancy between the game and the novel is not done for purposely overriding canon, but just done for cheap entertainment. Their laziness however does over-ride existing canon, one such consequence of the neglect in responsibility for a franchise.

Well, seeing as 343 (Hailed as being very concerned about canon) are accepting both the book and game, maybe there is just facts we frankly don't have yet.

  • 07.04.2011 4:50 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: grey101
This is stupid so stupid; so the covenant randomly figured out how to mask their detection into a system?[/quote]

Halsey mentions atmospheric anomalies, along with radar and slipspace monitoring glitches. So they were picked up as they entered the system and atmosphere but obviously with the "mask", Covenant were able to trick the systems.

That's my best guess at least. [/quote]

This is just making the UNSC look stupid.

In the book they were able to detect something in slipspace systems away and the anomaly of the fleet arriving was recognized because the same thing happened at harvest.

So for the UNSC to brush that off is ignorant, the covenant wouldn't even do that. When you see something weird and ask your friend and they say that saw it too then it was not a mistake on your part.

When dozens of stations report "anomalies" then you should go back to drinking coffee.


The strange thing is that the anomalies were detected on the 24th according to the journal. So that means the Covenant were extremely quick and precise to locate and disable Visegrad relay.


Unless the LNoS was the first one in the system and as stated by Slas...they were able to mask themselves from all detection, which gives the Covenant plenty of time to find the Visegrad Relay, considering how long they were on the planet. Then the stations picked up the corvettes entering the system...

Or maybe Halsey saw no point in mentioning the glitches and anomalies until she caught wind of NOBLE and Charlie Company going in, which was the 24th also.

Hmmm...


According to the info from our fellow community member he states that the visual guide lists the SC having the ability to mask itself and the rest of its fleet. So its contingent of Corvettes would be masked at the same time as well.

As for the anomalies she would have picked them up regardless, more so after having read the Sigma Octanus report.

Odd...according to the Journal, the day before on the 23rd Visegrad went dark, meaning that the Covies were on the ground at the very least on the 23rd...So why was the glitch detected on the 24th?


So where do the covenant randomly upgrade? what is the cause for it? They don't have any intel on reach pre- spy probe, they had the system in their databanks but didn't know we were there.

So the journal now has a flaw, great

  • 07.04.2011 4:51 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ajw34307
None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...


Fail to see how the Phantom Menace is so confusing.


Then watch the Plinkett review, and don't whine about how he includes jokes in his videos.

  • 07.04.2011 4:54 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ajw34307
None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...


Fail to see how the Phantom Menace is so confusing.


Then watch the Plinkett review, and don't whine about how he includes jokes in his videos.


That Cat -blam!-ker should do a review of Reach. It would be a amazing and educational vid. I don't think his hearts in Halo canon though.

  • 07.04.2011 5:00 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: StealthSlasher2
According to the info from our fellow community member he states that the visual guide lists the SC having the ability to mask itself and the rest of its fleet. So its contingent of Corvettes would be masked at the same time as well.


Ah ok. Guess I forgot about that part.

  • 07.04.2011 5:01 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

It looks like we have a Covenant dichotomy, like the Picard dichotomy.

In the Star Trek episodes Picard is a calm, level headed distinguished diplomat with a highly enlightened moral and ethical sense.

In the films he is a hot headed, trigger happy renegade that succumbs easily to vengeance.

So here we have on one hand an imitative Covenant who's tactics have always boiled down to some pretty basic things. Sacrificial tactics, overpowering and outnumbering opponents. As Captain Keyes put it as well: Distraction, diversion and deceit. It rarely changes, like their security protocols! They are impatient and overconfident, which often leads to their demise and changing this would admit to Humanity being better than them in the thinking department, something that their arrogance won't allow for. This is how the UNSC won, the only reason they "won".

In Reach we have a sly, precise, patient and efficient Covenant who have changed their tactics completely. They have displayed uncharacteristic innovation. In doing this they have essentially admitted to displaying inferior tactics before the UNSC in prior engagements, also uncharacteristic of them. The UNSCs reliance on predicting the Covenant's very predictable tactics is, as I said, the only reason they won.

Even within Reach there is an apparent dichotomy. The Covenant have successfully rendered a 27km long ship invisible to the most thorough, relentless and advance detection grid in Human space, as we now learn from the Guide book. Anyone who can do this must be pretty smart.

However the Covenant appear to have neglected to do this to, from what we can see, almost every other vessel in their fleet that they used against Humanity despite the overwhelming tactical advantage that it gives. I should be easy to do with other vessels. (Considering that they have much less volume to deal with) The fact that this tactic has not been used on any other Human world as far as we can tell is evidence for this. Whoever cannot see this must be pretty stupid.

So what are the Covenant even within Reach? Reach on its own works, but as soon as you apply it to the rest of the story things break.

Why the Covenant went to Reach and how they knew it needed to be scouted in the first place still doesn't add up.

  • 07.04.2011 5:01 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ajw34307
None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...


Fail to see how the Phantom Menace is so confusing.


Then watch the Plinkett review, and don't whine about how he includes jokes in his videos.

That Cat -blam!-ker should do a review of Reach. It would be a amazing and educational vid. I don't think his hearts in Halo canon though.


My life would be made if that happened. :P

  • 07.04.2011 5:02 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: grey101
This is stupid so stupid; so the covenant randomly figured out how to mask their detection into a system?[/quote]

Halsey mentions atmospheric anomalies, along with radar and slipspace monitoring glitches. So they were picked up as they entered the system and atmosphere but obviously with the "mask", Covenant were able to trick the systems.

That's my best guess at least. [/quote]

This is just making the UNSC look stupid.

In the book they were able to detect something in slipspace systems away and the anomaly of the fleet arriving was recognized because the same thing happened at harvest.

So for the UNSC to brush that off is ignorant, the covenant wouldn't even do that. When you see something weird and ask your friend and they say that saw it too then it was not a mistake on your part.

When dozens of stations report "anomalies" then you should go back to drinking coffee.


The strange thing is that the anomalies were detected on the 24th according to the journal. So that means the Covenant were extremely quick and precise to locate and disable Visegrad relay.


Unless the LNoS was the first one in the system and as stated by Slas...they were able to mask themselves from all detection, which gives the Covenant plenty of time to find the Visegrad Relay, considering how long they were on the planet. Then the stations picked up the corvettes entering the system...

Or maybe Halsey saw no point in mentioning the glitches and anomalies until she caught wind of NOBLE and Charlie Company going in, which was the 24th also.

Hmmm...


According to the info from our fellow community member he states that the visual guide lists the SC having the ability to mask itself and the rest of its fleet. So its contingent of Corvettes would be masked at the same time as well.

As for the anomalies she would have picked them up regardless, more so after having read the Sigma Octanus report.

Odd...according to the Journal, the day before on the 23rd Visegrad went dark, meaning that the Covies were on the ground at the very least on the 23rd...So why was the glitch detected on the 24th?


So where do the covenant randomly upgrade? what is the cause for it? They don't have any intel on reach pre- spy probe, they had the system in their databanks but didn't know we were there.

So the journal now has a flaw, great


Just makes it all the more incredible that they took apart Reach's defenses without any intel using just one ship, and yet they bungle up when it comes to do the same for Earth.

  • 07.04.2011 5:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Coma you enjoying this?

  • 07.04.2011 5:13 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Glad to see people are FINALLY understanding why I've been up in arms about Reach since day 1.

I always thought Joe Staten did a "meh" job with Halo 3/ODST, but after Reach I realize how critical he was to the Halo formula. Doesn't help that Jason Jones wasn't involved with Reach at all. Nor was Frankie(who I'm pissed at for trying to cover Bungies ass.)

  • 07.04.2011 5:14 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: privet caboose
Glad to see people are FINALLY understanding why I've been up in arms about Reach since day 1.

I always thought Joe Staten did a "meh" job with Halo 3/ODST, but after Reach I realize how critical he was to the Halo formula. Doesn't help that Jason Jones wasn't involved with Reach at all. Nor was Frankie(who I'm pissed at for trying to cover Bungies ass.)

Damn, if you show up then it is FUBAR

  • 07.04.2011 5:15 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: privet caboose
Glad to see people are FINALLY understanding why I've been up in arms about Reach since day 1.

I always thought Joe Staten did a "meh" job with Halo 3/ODST, but after Reach I realize how critical he was to the Halo formula. Doesn't help that Jason Jones wasn't involved with Reach at all. Nor was Frankie(who I'm pissed at for trying to cover Bungies ass.)


I don't know about you, but I haven't seen anyone new come to that realization yet in this particular thread.

  • 07.04.2011 5:16 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ajw34307
None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...


Fail to see how the Phantom Menace is so confusing.


Then watch the Plinkett review, and don't whine about how he includes jokes in his videos.



I did, and noticed how he didn't joke, he tossed in random -blam!- into it.

Also at the end of the first part of the phantom menace review he outright ignored movie dialogue. "Why are they going underwater!" when it was explained in the movie.

I'm not whining about jokes, it's the fact his review is utter -blam!-.

  • 07.04.2011 5:16 PM PDT

In regards to Covenant tactics and tech, I think the key phrase folks are forgetting here is 'advanced scouting fleet'. Aren't 'scouts' typically supposed to be more sneaky than the main part of the force they are scouting for? Thus it would be the scouting force that would need such advanced inflitation tech, not the main invasion force.

Yes, we know the Covenant, as a whole, are arrogent and overconfident, but individuals may not be so. The commander of the Valient Prudence (who is Rho 'Barutamee btw: at least, he is the shipmaster of the Solace)) may be of the more 'cautious' and patient mindset, which would make him perfect to lead a scouting fleet, where a sense of caution and patience is required.

In regards to the 'bungling' of the invasion of Earth (I am assuming Stealth is refering to the first one): don't forget that Regret got impatient and wanted the glory of finding the relic on Earth. Not to mention, the majority of the fleet that intended to go to Earth was wiped out when the Unyielding Heiriphont (yeah, I know I messed that up) went kablooey. Truth 'made up' for that when he arrived.

[Edited on 07.04.2011 5:24 PM PDT]

  • 07.04.2011 5:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

so the covenant had this tech all along but didn't properly use it?

because in all honesty 1 fleet of these "advanced scouts" could have went to earth prior Truths invasion fleet and took out the SMACs.

  • 07.04.2011 5:27 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
so the covenant had this tech all along but didn't properly use it?

because in all honesty 1 fleet of these "advanced scouts" could have went to earth prior Truths invasion fleet and took out the SMACs.


Whose to say Truth 'didn't' do that? I was mostly talking about Regret in that last paragraph....

Edit: plus it was stated in Halo 3 that Truth 'smashed what was left' of Earth's defenses.

[Edited on 07.04.2011 5:32 PM PDT]

  • 07.04.2011 5:31 PM PDT