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  • Subject: Bungie dialogue on Halo reach still conflicts
Subject: Bungie dialogue on Halo reach still conflicts

Signatures are for squares.

Reach just completely caught me off guard with how bad it screwed things up.

Cryptum, Evolutions, Bootcamp...they've all been amazing.

The Halo story is beautiful, but what good is it when everything comes to a crash near the end of the series? Everything meshes together perfectly, and then ONE piece of material ruins EVERYTHING.

  • 07.04.2011 11:10 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: privet caboose
Reach just completely caught me off guard with how bad it screwed things up.

Cryptum, Evolutions, Bootcamp...they've all been amazing.

The Halo story is beautiful, but what good is it when everything comes to a crash near the end of the series? Everything meshes together perfectly, and then ONE piece of material ruins EVERYTHING.


The key events still occur, the Autumn flees Reach, Reach falls on the 30th, the Autumn finds Halo. As far as I'm concerned, the events that occur during Reach's fall don't bug me. Folks like me and Coma enjoy the Bungie's portrayal of Reach for reasons we've discussed. You prefer Nylund's. At the end of the day, the events of Reach as Bungie portrayed them are in question if we acknowledge the theory that Reach was made by ONI.

Half the fun in getting involved with a story is the speculation when new events unfold. We may not always like what we see, when The Clone Wars came out I didn't, but as time went on, certain plot elements intrigued me. I don't like every bit of the series mind you, but if I stopped keeping up with Star Wars fir every thing I didn't liked, I would've stopped years ago.

Giving up's the easy part.

  • 07.04.2011 11:16 PM PDT

I wonder how the Reach fanboys will skew their delusion even further.

BY THE WAY, only a bunch of stupid mofos would send a 27km SUPERCARRIER as a SCOUTing force.

  • 07.04.2011 11:25 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
I wonder how the Reach fanboys will skew their delusion even further.

BY THE WAY, only a bunch of stupid mofos would send a 27km SUPERCARRIER as a SCOUTing force.

So speculating and posting their theories makes them delusional?

  • 07.04.2011 11:26 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
I wonder how the Reach fanboys will skew their delusion even further.

BY THE WAY, only a bunch of stupid mofos would send a 27km SUPERCARRIER as a SCOUTing force.

So speculating and posting their theories makes them delusional?


Ah, yes, the "speculating" defense, when you've been presented with overwhelming evidence that the game is filled with major plotholes and irrational storytelling.

Keep speculating, because all you're doing is trying to patch a fracked up version that only mindless ppl without any sense of fine quality would adhere to.

But of course, there are a good number of posters out there who believe that there is absolutely no error with the game and book canon, OrderedComa being the most notorious offender.

The inability to realize the errors and the irrational plot of the game and the constant attempts at blindly defending plotholes is what makes it delusional.

[Edited on 07.04.2011 11:38 PM PDT]

  • 07.04.2011 11:37 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: A Puzzled Mind

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
I wonder how the Reach fanboys will skew their delusion even further.

BY THE WAY, only a bunch of stupid mofos would send a 27km SUPERCARRIER as a SCOUTing force.

So speculating and posting their theories makes them delusional?


Ah, yes, the "speculating" defense, when you've been presented with overwhelming evidence that the game is filled with major plotholes and irrational storytelling.

Keep speculating, because all you're doing is trying to patch a fracked up version that only mindless ppl without any sense of fine quality would adhere to.

But of course, there are a good number of posters out there who believe that there is absolutely no error with the game and book canon, OrderedComa being the most notorious offender.

The inability to realize the errors and the irrational plot of the game and the constant attempts at blindly defending plotholes is what makes it delusional.


And where is the harm in letting them speculate? Star Wars fans still speculate whether or not Luke turns to the Dark Side in the Dark Empire story arc. Canonically, he does, but it's not such a clear cut deal.

There is no need to be an -blam!- about it. None whatsoever.

  • 07.04.2011 11:41 PM PDT

Walk softly, and carry a big midget.

That's where the fleet is going, not the ships actually there.

  • 07.04.2011 11:44 PM PDT


Posted by: AngrydoG
I never thought I would see people get this upset over something as trifling as the dates, or where the SMACs were positioned etc.

About a fictional universe.

OT: I was disappointed in teh Campaign as well. But not enough to where I go looking for every flaw like some of you.

People find ANYTHING to complain about...


Pretty much this is what I've gathered concerning certain(not all, but some) people against Reach. They simply cannot accept it wasn't a copy+paste of the book, and therefore it ruins ALL(100%) OF HALO CANON LORE! and blow up the problems to nuclear sized instead of grenade sized.

Also, "Only a mindless dummy would accept Reach" (or something similar was said in this topic) Then I guess Bungie AND 343 are both mindless. Seeing as they BOTH accept both the book and game as canon.

If it honestly -blam!- destroyed canon/had as big errors as you all said, wouldn't frankie/343(now holders of the halo story bible) been up in arms? Outright talked about it? No, now they are giving us MORE of the missing information about Reach.

And all that is said about it is "This is bull-blam!-, 343 is having to POORLY cover Bungie's ass." (Amusing especially since if 343 was as great concerning canon, wouldn't their corrections be far from poor?)

Just a rant.

edit: Geesh, slander much? I've NEVER heard Coma treat Reach as being 100% perfect with no errors whatsoever. Hell, least we are actually thinking about it instead of going "Oh, here is an error of (undetermined) size. Instead of thinking about it, we'll just make it appear bigger."

Hell, if you stare over Reach with a fine tooth comb, do so for the rest of canon. It's also filled with varying errors. Last I checked, Coma was like myself. Reach isn't perfect, but neither is the book. Thinking about it and coming up with solutions to fill the missing information gap is better then being mindless and going "It's broken, there is a hole here! We must whine until somebody fixes it" and then "IT'S not fixed EXACTLY as I wanted!"

Note, I am not saying everybody against Reach is like this. However, there are some that are.

[Edited on 07.05.2011 1:52 AM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 1:47 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: privet caboose
Reach just completely caught me off guard with how bad it screwed things up.

Cryptum, Evolutions, Bootcamp...they've all been amazing.

The Halo story is beautiful, but what good is it when everything comes to a crash near the end of the series? Everything meshes together perfectly, and then ONE piece of material ruins EVERYTHING.


The key events still occur, the Autumn flees Reach, Reach falls on the 30th, the Autumn finds Halo.


How halo was found is an issue to0, soon as the sigma crystal was gathered cortana was able to get coordinates from it nothing else.


Yet in reach we have some random artifact which was blown up before it was explained (343i better not do that crap) that was needed to get the coordinates and halsey implies from how see was talking that it was of importance.


That is completely different that what really happened, and defeats the purpose the entire first game.

Coma has been on the waypoint forums and i doubt she as seen this yet.

@Cmdr when we fist heard of this game we wanted it to be based of the novels for canon reasons, we were afraid this everything would happen. while on that same note we didn't want it to be about reach because there isn't wiggle room.

[Edited on 07.05.2011 5:32 AM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 5:29 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

You want to discuss the similarities between Reach and the Titanic? Before it was a very good comparison, now it is meaningless for a variety of reasons.

Want to draw on the imitative/innovative theme? Sorry, cannot do that anymore for people coming in and thinking that one games spontaneous portrayal of character for the Covenant is evidence to disrupt that theme. Well maybe it is, but you just successfuly soiled one of Halo's core themes.

Question:

What did Reach convey? What was the point of it? So far all I see is a generic story filled with "Who can get the best death award".

[Edited on 07.05.2011 7:08 AM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 7:07 AM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
When Emile dies they say: "That's it, all the Spartans are gone."

Erm... what?


Because Bungie never wanted tons of Spartans alive by the beginning of CE.

  • 07.05.2011 7:13 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: ajw34307
When Emile dies they say: "That's it, all the Spartans are gone."

Erm... what?


Because Bungie never wanted tons of Spartans alive by the beginning of CE.


look i am just going to start reporting you since you are spreading nonsense, they were referencing NOBLE team not all of the spartans.

  • 07.05.2011 7:49 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: privet caboose
Reach just completely caught me off guard with how bad it screwed things up.

Cryptum, Evolutions, Bootcamp...they've all been amazing.

The Halo story is beautiful, but what good is it when everything comes to a crash near the end of the series? Everything meshes together perfectly, and then ONE piece of material ruins EVERYTHING.


The key events still occur, the Autumn flees Reach, Reach falls on the 30th, the Autumn finds Halo.


How halo was found is an issue to0, soon as the sigma crystal was gathered cortana was able to get coordinates from it nothing else.


Yet in reach we have some random artifact which was blown up before it was explained (343i better not do that crap) that was needed to get the coordinates and halsey implies from how see was talking that it was of importance.


That is completely different that what really happened, and defeats the purpose the entire first game.

Coma has been on the waypoint forums and i doubt she as seen this yet.

@Cmdr when we fist heard of this game we wanted it to be based of the novels for canon reasons, we were afraid this everything would happen. while on that same note we didn't want it to be about reach because there isn't wiggle room.


Plus the lack of finding the Sigma Crystal means that the other information on it (Nylund said there is more then one purpose it serves) is now irrelevant.

Just as well, the Covenant never would have went looking for it, and therefore, Keyes never did the Keyes loop and was never picked for his mission to go to Covenant Space to capture a Prophet, thusly Halo was never found. Remember: he was picked because of his tatcical brilliance displayed at Sigma Octanus.

And then the Covenant would never have attatched a probe to the Iriquois and never would have found Reach. How did they find Reach, then?

It can be said everything revolved around the battle of Sigma Octanus IV. It all started there because of the specific events that happened, how it happened.

  • 07.05.2011 8:04 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
You want to discuss the similarities between Reach and the Titanic? Before it was a very good comparison, now it is meaningless for a variety of reasons.

Want to draw on the imitative/innovative theme? Sorry, cannot do that anymore for people coming in and thinking that one games spontaneous portrayal of character for the Covenant is evidence to disrupt that theme. Well maybe it is, but you just successfuly soiled one of Halo's core themes.

Question:

What did Reach convey? What was the point of it? So far all I see is a generic story filled with "Who can get the best death award".


I don't think Bungie watched Titanic. It was filled to the brim with emotional tragedy and devestating loss. They say that the ship that crashed in Exodus was to cement the tragedy of loss.

Bull -blam!-

As far as I was concerned, it could have been an automated ship with some supplies on it. I saw no human die, I only saw a ship explode all cool-like.

I swear, comparing Reach the game to Titanic is bigoted, ignorant and insulting to a cinematic master piece. I felt no sense of loss, only saw the coolio explosions and epic battle scenes. I felt no emotion, cared nothing for the civillians, only wanted them to get the hell out of my way.

They made one huge mistake: for an emotionally powerful story to be told, comparable to the Titanic, you cannot make the main characyters emotionally distanced from humanity. They cannot be robots, as it were.

God, I could rant all day how horrible the story was.

  • 07.05.2011 8:10 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

When did eric say that???!

  • 07.05.2011 8:14 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I don't think Bungie watched Titanic. It was filled to the brim with emotional tragedy and devestating loss. They say that the ship that crashed in Exodus was to cement the tragedy of loss.

Bull -blam!-

As far as I was concerned, it could have been an automated ship with some supplies on it. I saw no human die, I only saw a ship explode all cool-like.

I swear, comparing Reach the game to Titanic is bigoted, ignorant and insulting to a cinematic master piece. I felt no sense of loss, only saw the coolio explosions and epic battle scenes. I felt no emotion, cared nothing for the civillians, only wanted them to get the hell out of my way.

They made one huge mistake: for an emotionally powerful story to be told, comparable to the Titanic, you cannot make the main characyters emotionally distanced from humanity. They cannot be robots, as it were.

God, I could rant all day how horrible the story was.

You have misunderstood me Robert. I was not opening by comparing Reach the game to Titanic, but the actual planet itself and the concept. I was essentially implying the idea that Reach was the unsinkable Titanic of the stars that was suck in a heartbeat.

Then the game came along and changed all that.

  • 07.05.2011 8:39 AM PDT

I loose power for a couple hours and spend the whole day out of the house and look what happens XD Haha.

Posted by: Grey101
Coma you enjoying this?


You mean enjoying laughing my head off at you guys? Yeah I am enjoying this XD The lack imagination that a lot of you are displaying though is astounding me though >_> Just because we have never seen something before does not make it untrue. It's the same thing a lot of the people who hate Cryptum are doing. We didn't know that there was a Human empire during the time of the Forerunners and Cryptum revealed that almost completely out of the blue, yet that doesn't mean that Human's having an empire at that can't be true. It's the same thing with Reach, we've only recently found out a bit about the range of ability the Covenant have at stealth.

And as for why the technology didn't see a wide range of application, we haven't seen every battle in the war, and most of the time the Covenant blundered onto Human planets completely by accident and lost any of the real advantages stealth would have given them. Not much reason to send in a force completely based around stealth and sabotage if they already know you're there and have found the planet. In addition it is entirely possible and quite likely that the range of technology that the Supercarrier and its forces were equipped with, such as the use of teleportation and the advance stealth techniques, is not something that can easily be replicated on a large scale and outfitted to the whole army. Partly why I think the Supercarrier was so large, needed the extra room to hold all of the systems it would be using to hide itself and support the secrecy of its troops and the landing zone.

Posted by: ajw34307
None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...


Funny, I was able to understand the Phantom Menace perfectly I didn't really find anything in the movie at all that didn't make any sense...

And I don't see anything completely understandable or something not making any sense in Reach either.

  • 07.05.2011 10:54 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: ajw34307
None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...


Funny, I was able to understand the Phantom Menace perfectly I didn't really find anything in the movie at all that didn't make any sense...

And I don't see anything completely understandable or something not making any sense in Reach either.


You must've watched a different Phantom Menace to the rest of humanity.

Then watch the Plinkett review, I shan't hijack the topic by spending 3 hours explaining why.

Erm... as for Reach why don't you look at the discussion going on here and the Unexplainable Errors thread. We shouldn't have to be imaginative and come up with our own answers, this is something Bungie should have made clear.

[Edited on 07.05.2011 11:05 AM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 11:01 AM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: ajw34307
None of this rubbish makes any sense! It's almost mind boggling at how complex this has become, it's like trying to understand the Phantom Menace...


Funny, I was able to understand the Phantom Menace perfectly I didn't really find anything in the movie at all that didn't make any sense...

And I don't see anything completely understandable or something not making any sense in Reach either.


You must've watched a different Phantom Menace to the rest of humanity.

Then watch the Plinkett review, I shan't hijack the topic by spending 3 hours explaining why.

Erm... as for Reach why don't you look at the discussion going on here and the Unexplainable Errors thread. We shouldn't have to be imaginative and come up with our own answers, this is something Bungie should have made clear.


Or you watched a different version. Every person I've talked to about it doesn't see the movie as so confusing. I'll link Coma to the plinkett review just so she can see how.... blah it is.

I believe the Illusive man actually described this situation best in a mass effect novel.

"Give a line to an intelligent person, they'll fill in the gaps themselves."

"Say the same thing to a not as intelligent person, they will point out the holes and cling to them." In basics.

Face it, even the original version of the fall of Reach had just as, if not even more missing information then this one. FACT is that clearly 343 and Bungie consider both canon. Therefore, using common sense, the connecting details that are missing still remain. If Halo Reach (as I said earlier) really screwed up ALL of canon so badly, wouldn't 343 say something? Wouldn't Frankie (hailed as caring for the canon a great deal) officially talk about it? Or waypoint simply wouldn't have videos talking about game and book events side by side?

  • 07.05.2011 11:21 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
"Give a line to an intelligent person, they'll fill in the gaps themselves."

"Say the same thing to a not as intelligent person, they will point out the holes and cling to them." In basics.

I dare you to say that to Richard Dawkins, or any other skeptic freethinker. That is how truth is discerned, through facts, logic and evidence, not through making it up as you go along. I will cling to a thousand holes waiting for a suitable explanation rather than fill just one with nonsense.

  • 07.05.2011 11:58 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
"Give a line to an intelligent person, they'll fill in the gaps themselves."

"Say the same thing to a not as intelligent person, they will point out the holes and cling to them." In basics.

I dare you to say that to Richard Dawkins, or any other skeptic freethinker. That is how truth is discerned, through facts, logic and evidence, not through making it up as you go along. I will cling to a thousand holes waiting for a suitable explanation rather than fill just one with nonsense.


Mayhaps, but choosing not to think about it at all, or go "Mhmm, I wonder how this'd work to fix it." is worse then sitting there going "I refuse to think about it! I'm going to wait for somebody else to hand me all the answers on a silver platter."

Wouldn't a 'skeptic freethinker' not take everything given at face-value? Would they sit there waiting to be given the answers, or seek them out?

Edit: Might be thinking about a 'freethinker' wrong, but that's what I view it as. Somebody who actively seeks the answers to the holes instead of sitting there waiting for handouts.

[Edited on 07.05.2011 12:13 PM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 12:02 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Wouldn't a 'skeptic freethinker' not take everything given at face-value? Would they sit there waiting to be given the answers, or seek them out?

Yeah, they don't take things at face value, nor do they intially accept anything as true until there is sufficient proof or evidence to justify it. A freethinker bases all opinions and beliefs on logic, reason and facts.

Everyone here has attempted to find resolutions to various things. I have some, like Spartan-IIIs being known to Halsey, Carter being too old and Noble team surviving TORPEDO and PROMETHEUS. However, I don't think the SMACs, Reach's execution, the behaviour of the Covenant/UNSC has any "reasonable" or "logical" basis to them. I have looked up these things and attempted to reconcile them, but I can't. When that happens, one rejects something. So I am not just clinging to holes without attempting to fill the gaps.

For example, if someone tossed you the line "The invisible flying Spaghetti monster exists", would really try to "fill in the gaps" or would you "cling to the holes" in an attempt to put it down? It is the same thing here, sort of.

  • 07.05.2011 12:12 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Why is everybody so worried about the Supercarrier assault not being used more often?
The Supercarrier may have been a recent innovation, the only one of it's kind, not yet proven to be reliable. After Reach, Regrets bungled assault on Earth, Delta Halo and the schism prevented them from making more.

Alternatively, they used that strategy several times. We just never heard about it because of the size of the war and the fact that they cut off the communication. Because the colony being attacked by Supercarrier has it's comma offline they can't alert the rest of the UNSC that the covies have an invisible fleet.

[Edited on 07.05.2011 12:25 PM PDT]

  • 07.05.2011 12:24 PM PDT

Difference, if somebody said that to me in real life, I'd laugh at them(If they were, however, talking about a fictional universe, I may listen to what they think depending on the specific setting). In the context of Reach, there is lots of still missing information. Using common sense, I KNOW the book and game can connect. Why? The 'overlords' of the halo canon have stated such basically.

Now, I could understand... maybe if each plothole/error was treated at the right size, but I've seen them blown out of whack. Treating the game as if it's completely and utterly destroyed all the halo canon much? Or acting as if the game ruins the entire book of Fall of Reach, instead of the last chapters? That's the thing that really... annoys me I guess is the most accurate word. It's not "Oh, thing A doesn't fully match up to thing B." It comes across more often as "Thing A completely -blam!-s over what Thing B describes."

  • 07.05.2011 12:24 PM PDT