Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why does some people don't remember John Is the best Spartan?
  • Subject: Why does some people don't remember John Is the best Spartan?
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Why does some people don't remember John Is the best Spartan?

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Sure other Spartans outperformed Masterchief. Kurt.... However so were the elites (white-golden), hunters and brutes and despite that he defeated them.

The entire point of the chief character was that despite not being the best he defeated people stronger than him, again and again... That's says much more of his skills than the other Spartans.

In "theory" the other Spartans were more powerful. But in action the chief was the one that accomplished far miore than any other Spartan could have even dream of. Just in Halo 1 he already surpassed noble six feats ( defeating the tier 1 civilization killer and destroying halo)

The value of a Spartan was in the result of their action not in their "powe levels". In action chief is the best.

Honestly a "mediocre" Spartan outperforming elites/brutes stronger than him iand saving the universe is much more impressive than the So called "stronger Spartans" doing the same . I never saw them... On delta halo, in high charity or in the ark...

The chief acomplishimg more than people supposedly stronger than him, speaks volumes of his value as a Spartan.

Not to mention the obvious fact that he is special for his lucks Something nobody else had.

Tl;Dr What gives you value isnot what you are. But what you do with what you are.

[Edited on 07.06.2011 10:20 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2011 10:12 PM PDT

Nice parody thread, you stole a smile outta me :D

  • 07.06.2011 10:19 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

I am being sincere.Thanks for the bump btw :D

[Edited on 07.06.2011 10:22 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2011 10:21 PM PDT

Taylor Gang! 420

I just think that Chief is better since he's alive lol, he's on par with the other living Spartans right now(not the MIA'S) but I think after Halo 4 he'll pretty much be god lol

  • 07.06.2011 10:35 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Chief did accomplish much considering he was the only Spartan able to do so because he was the only Spartan in fighting consideration on the Autumn. That and Cortana saved his ass quite a few times.

  • 07.06.2011 10:37 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Chief did accomplish much considering he was the only Spartan able to do so because he was the only Spartan in fighting consideration on the Autumn. That and Cortana saved his ass quite a few times.


I would love somebody to release an alternate version of the events of Reach with John going down to the planet instead of doing the easy part on Gamma Station so the John fanboys would see how quickly his luck would run out.

  • 07.06.2011 10:40 PM PDT

I am the Leader of the Awrand Forces. If you wish to join message me in any medium.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Awrand_Forces/index.php?act=idx

Freds the best, -blam!- off

  • 07.06.2011 10:44 PM PDT

I don't even understand why that other thread was made. Yes, it is stated by Halsey that John is not the strongest, fastest, etc. Spartan, but even she claims that he is truly the luckiest, always finding a way to succeed.

And perhaps the worst part is how the OP of that thread says that Noble 6 is better than the Chief. What?!?

Spartan II > Spartan III

And sorry to that Bungie employee who once said that Noble Team would easily defeat the Chief (I think it was Urk), but after playing the Campaign, I have my doubts.

  • 07.06.2011 10:45 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Juan Teran
I don't even understand why that other thread was made. Yes, it is stated by Halsey that John is not the strongest, fastest, etc. Spartan, but even she claims that he is truly the luckiest, always finding a way to succeed.

And perhaps the worst part is how the OP of that thread says that Noble 6 is better than the Chief. What?!?

Spartan II > Spartan III

And sorry to that Bungie employee who once said that Noble Team would easily defeat the Chief (I think it was Urk), but after playing the Campaign, I have my doubts.


Don't even get me started in the whole Spartan II vs Spartan III debate. Spartan III's are better, cause this will have no end.

  • 07.06.2011 10:51 PM PDT

Fight Finished 2007


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Chief did accomplish much considering he was the only Spartan able to do so because he was the only Spartan in fighting consideration on the Autumn. That and Cortana saved his ass quite a few times.


I would love somebody to release an alternate version of the events of Reach with John going down to the planet instead of doing the easy part on Gamma Station so the John fanboys would see how quickly his luck would run out.


LOL, because the threat on Reach was so much more then oh, I don't know the extinction of all sentient beings in the galaxy due to either Halo or the flood....

Fact is that he is the best spartan, again he is lucky, a great leader and in every other aspect he is at least very good. So what if he didn't go and didn't fight on Reach, he battled an unknown enemy that causes the end of the greatest alien race now known to man within Halo's story, the Forerunner. You can say all you want about how somebody relies on someone else but that goes for literally everyone. The fact is that John faced many threats that most of the other Spartans don't even know about and these threats were much more powerful then the covenant. In the end the Chief destroyed the first halo, made it through High charity, ventured through the Ark and destroyed not only the Covenant but the Flood threat.

[Edited on 07.06.2011 11:02 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2011 10:54 PM PDT

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Juan Teran
I don't even understand why that other thread was made. Yes, it is stated by Halsey that John is not the strongest, fastest, etc. Spartan, but even she claims that he is truly the luckiest, always finding a way to succeed.

And perhaps the worst part is how the OP of that thread says that Noble 6 is better than the Chief. What?!?

Spartan II > Spartan III

And sorry to that Bungie employee who once said that Noble Team would easily defeat the Chief (I think it was Urk), but after playing the Campaign, I have my doubts.


Don't even get me started in the whole Spartan II vs Spartan III debate. Spartan III's are better, cause this will have no end.

You and I know how wrong you are.

Spartans III were made because of the lack of resources to make Spartans II.

[Edited on 07.06.2011 10:56 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2011 10:55 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Juan Teran
Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Juan Teran
I don't even understand why that other thread was made. Yes, it is stated by Halsey that John is not the strongest, fastest, etc. Spartan, but even she claims that he is truly the luckiest, always finding a way to succeed.

And perhaps the worst part is how the OP of that thread says that Noble 6 is better than the Chief. What?!?

Spartan II > Spartan III

And sorry to that Bungie employee who once said that Noble Team would easily defeat the Chief (I think it was Urk), but after playing the Campaign, I have my doubts.


Don't even get me started in the whole Spartan II vs Spartan III debate. Spartan III's are better, cause this will have no end.

You and I know how wrong you are.

Spartans III were made because of the lack of resources to make Spartans II.

Even though their augmentations were practically the same only safer?

  • 07.06.2011 10:58 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

QFT
Posted by: Sparda Reborn

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Chief did accomplish much considering he was the only Spartan able to do so because he was the only Spartan in fighting consideration on the Autumn. That and Cortana saved his ass quite a few times.


I would love somebody to release an alternate version of the events of Reach with John going down to the planet instead of doing the easy part on Gamma Station so the John fanboys would see how quickly his luck would run out.


LOL, because the threat on Reach was so much more then oh, I don't know the extinction of all sentient beings in the galaxy due to either Halo or the floor....

Fact is that he is the best spartan, again he is lucky, a great leader and in every other aspect he is at least very good. So what if he didn't go and didn't fight on Reach, he battled an unknown enemy that causes the end of the greatest alien race now known to man within Halo's story, the Forerunner. You can say all you want about how somebody relies on someone else but that goes for literally everyone. The fact is that John faced many threats that most of the other Spartans don't even know about and these threats were much more powerful then the covenant. In the end the Chief destroyed the first halo, made it through High charity, ventured through the Ark and destroyed not only the Covenant but the Flood threat.

  • 07.06.2011 11:01 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Juan Teran
Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Juan Teran
I don't even understand why that other thread was made. Yes, it is stated by Halsey that John is not the strongest, fastest, etc. Spartan, but even she claims that he is truly the luckiest, always finding a way to succeed.

And perhaps the worst part is how the OP of that thread says that Noble 6 is better than the Chief. What?!?

Spartan II > Spartan III

And sorry to that Bungie employee who once said that Noble Team would easily defeat the Chief (I think it was Urk), but after playing the Campaign, I have my doubts.


Don't even get me started in the whole Spartan II vs Spartan III debate. Spartan III's are better, cause this will have no end.

You and I know how wrong you are.

Spartans III were made because of the lack of resources to make Spartans II.

Even though their augmentations were practically the same only safer?

You could say the same about the Spartans II. According to Halsey's journal (I don't own it, but I've read in the forum), some of the candidates who wouldn't make the augmentation could eventually be "repaired" (to say it this way). Sure, it's open to debate, especially for those who don't consider Reach canon (myself included).

And even if the Spartans III survived the augmentation process, their equipment and experience is minimal compared to a Spartan II. Again, Spartans II were legends, Spartans III were Covenant terrorists.

  • 07.06.2011 11:01 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Juan Teran

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Juan Teran
Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Juan Teran
I don't even understand why that other thread was made. Yes, it is stated by Halsey that John is not the strongest, fastest, etc. Spartan, but even she claims that he is truly the luckiest, always finding a way to succeed.

And perhaps the worst part is how the OP of that thread says that Noble 6 is better than the Chief. What?!?

Spartan II > Spartan III

And sorry to that Bungie employee who once said that Noble Team would easily defeat the Chief (I think it was Urk), but after playing the Campaign, I have my doubts.


Don't even get me started in the whole Spartan II vs Spartan III debate. Spartan III's are better, cause this will have no end.

You and I know how wrong you are.

Spartans III were made because of the lack of resources to make Spartans II.

Even though their augmentations were practically the same only safer?

You could say the same about the Spartans II. According to Halsey's journal (I don't own it, but I've read in the forum), some of the candidates who wouldn't make the augmentation could eventually be "repaired" (to say it this way). Sure, it's open to debate, especially for those who don't consider Reach canon (myself included).

And even if the Spartans III survived the augmentation process, their equipment and experience is minimal compared to a Spartan II. Again, Spartans II were legends, Spartans III were Covenant terrorists.


Let's see, a bunch of 12 year olds (Gamma Company) were able to fight just as well as a group of fully grown Spartan II's (Holly was able to keep up with Kelly's moves in hand to hand when they first meet, as well as saving her from a pair of Hunters, which cost her life).

Not only that, but the only time they died was against impossible odds (Operation PROMETHEUS and TORPEDO) as opposed to the Spartan II's (Sam was killed by a Jackal over-charged shot [Even though they are supposed to watch things in slow-motion] Arthur or Solomon, can't remember which one, running into an obvious anti-matter charge, Daisy getting downed by a single Needler, the list goes on and on.

  • 07.06.2011 11:17 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Daisy getting downed by a single Needler, the list goes on and on.

As opposed to Dante getting a ton of shards in his side saying "I think I got nicked" before collapsing long after he should've died.

  • 07.06.2011 11:20 PM PDT

Fight Finished 2007

Or we can look at Master Chief in the Graphic novel where he takes several Hunter assault cannon shots and survives albeit knocked out, oh and the fact that he survived an atmospheric drop or the time the other Spartans dropped survived the jump from the pelican on Reach I believe. As for Holly, the fact is that Kelly still beat her and had the fight continued......Holly wouldn't be able to compare. As for Dante, he survived do to the drug the gamma company Spartan 3s were given that no others have, he didn't survive based off of some superior combat skilled, he was simply a dead man walking so to speak. There is also the fact that Kurt himself said that from Beta company onward would be taught to live and fight more like a family then simply a team because they could not handle what Spartan 2s could.

[Edited on 07.07.2011 12:18 AM PDT]

  • 07.07.2011 12:16 AM PDT

Fact: Spartan III augmentations yielded basically the same results as spartan II augmentations, without ANY of the risks and no washouts.
Fact: Spartan III training was condensed, and focused on SUPERIOR battle tactics and teamwork to succeed over just having the best gear. Aka, their training given by Kurt and Mendez was better.
Fact: The ONLY detractors between a Spartan II and III are armor, and experience. Put 300 Spartan II's at Operation torpedo in SPI, and you'll get basically the same results. Give the 300 Spartan III's Mark IV armor, and you'll see drastically different outcome.

Honestly, you use Gear and experience to say Spartan II's are universally better then a Spartan III? Gear is the only difference. A Spartan III with as much combat as a II would be just as experienced, nullifying that aspect. Of course, we can bring in the fact 300 Spartan III's with less experience caused more damage to the Covenant then the 20 some Spartan II's in Mark IV.

  • 07.07.2011 1:43 AM PDT

Okay, *rubs hands together*, lets get started.

Posted by: Sparda Reborn

LOL, because the threat on Reach was so much more then oh, I don't know the extinction of all sentient beings in the galaxy due to either Halo or the flood....


All Flood outbreaks have been contained, rather easily, and all have been isolated incidents, rather than Reach, which was planet-wide. Also, the amount of ships on Reach was anywhere between 314 and 750, whereas the Master Chief has never had to cope with a Covenant invasion of that size.

Posted by: Sparda Reborn
Fact is that he is the best spartan,

It isn't a fact unless there's proof. The only thing we have to go on is Halsey's biased opinion, which is an opinion, and is not a valid source.

Posted by: Sparda Reborn
again he is lucky, a great leader and in every other aspect he is at least very good.

You contradict yourself, my friend, for if he were the best Spartan... why would he need luck? It makes no sense how people compare his luck to his "being the best", because "luck" is a condition, not a skill or ability, and has no impact on skill or "being the best at____" because you can't be the "best at luck" that is total retardation.

Posted by: Sparda Reborn
So what if he didn't go and didn't fight on Reach, he battled an unknown enemy that causes the end of the greatest alien race now known to man within Halo's story, the Forerunner.


Any discussions about Halo 4 or onward are not considered canon in the Bungie Universe, since 343 is making the next three Halo games, thus, they are also irrelevant sources.

Posted by: Sparda Reborn
You can say all you want about how somebody relies on someone else but that goes for literally everyone. The fact is that John faced many threats that most of the other Spartans don't even know about and these threats were much more powerful then the covenant.

The only enemies that he's fought that weren't Covenant were: Sentinels, only in Halo 1 and 3, by the way, the Arbiter handled all the big stuff, like Enforcers, and the other is the Flood, which he's only fought in large part in Combat Evolved, they don't show up in Halo 3 until the last two levels and that small skirmish in Voi, so most of his battlefield experience is with the Covenant.

Posted by: Sparda Reborn
In the end the Chief destroyed the first halo, made it through High charity, ventured through the Ark and destroyed not only the Covenant but the Flood threat.


Correction, the Elites stopped the Covenant, and Cortana stopped the Flood threat by activating Halo. If you recall, Cortana ventures from his palm into Halo's network. Master Chief just killed Spark 'cuz he was in the way.

It is clear you suffer from a severe case of 'fanboy syndrome', I recommend you visit your nearest pharmaceuticals councilor and receive your medication as soon as possible.

  • 07.07.2011 3:22 AM PDT

chief, the only thing that made him epic was that he was in the right situation he was, because halo was destroyed by the pillar of autumn,with cortana's help,the convies were destroyed by the flood, and he got lucky near the end of the war, being on earth, instead of standing with his bros and sises in onyx,and he was assitedby arby,johnson,cortana, and miranda (until they killed her), so he could have died ,if he was in other stuff, we will be playing a charater that might be called john, or freddie mercury

  • 07.07.2011 7:36 AM PDT

"What they don't knw Can't hurt Them

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Fact: Spartan III augmentations yielded basically the same results as spartan II augmentations, without ANY of the risks and no washouts.


The fact that there were WAY more washouts and failures in augmentations with the Spartan II is irrelevant. This debate is on the Spartan II or the Spartan III and who was more effective. Yea they may have a better success rate in augmentation but thats clearly a given as they were created on the faults of the Spartan II program.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Fact: The ONLY detractors between a Spartan II and III are armor, and experience. Put 300 Spartan II's at Operation torpedo in SPI, and you'll get basically the same results. Give the 300 Spartan III's Mark IV armor, and you'll see drastically different outcome.


Mkays, you use the words ONLY here. So if 300 Spartan II's at Operation Torped were in SPI, you would not get the same result, you would get a better result as they have more experience as you have just said. Put 300 Spartan III's in Mark IV armor and you wont see a difference as the Spartan III and Spartan II armor were pretty much equal in effectiveness.

If you took all 3 companies of the Spartan III (gamma, beta, alpha) and put them in with the 30 Spartan II to fight it out, I am almost 100% sure the Spartan III would win, however if you take 30 spartan III and 30 Spartan II as you said before the only difference is the ARMOR and EXPERIENCE. The Spartan II would plow through the Spartan III through experience.

This argument was based on your facts too, I'm not saying that experience and armor are the only factors.

  • 07.07.2011 10:13 AM PDT

The augmentations was tossed in there because so many idiots go "Spartan II augmentations were better!"

I should have cleared up that example.

Put 300 Spartan II's in SPI, with the same experiance the III's did when they went there, same results. 300 III's with Mark IV and the general experiance Spartan II's would have had, major changes.

Also, Spartan II and III armor (MJOLNIR and SPI) are nowhere NEAR each other in effectiveness. Kurt wouldn't have died if he had picked mark IV instead of SPI. SPI was basically ODST armor with active camo.

  • 07.07.2011 10:19 AM PDT

"What they don't knw Can't hurt Them

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Put 300 Spartan II's in SPI, with the same experiance the III's did when they went there, same results. 300 III's with Mark IV and the general experiance Spartan II's would have had, major changes.

Also, Spartan II and III armor (MJOLNIR and SPI) are nowhere NEAR each other in effectiveness. Kurt wouldn't have died if he had picked mark IV instead of SPI. SPI was basically ODST armor with active camo.


My bad you are right about the armor.

Yea personally I believe that the III had better training and the II had the better armor and more experience.

Mkays if you had a pit of 5 II and 5 III with no armor, who would come out.

If your answer is II like mine, I believe the reasoning is that the IIs are way more experienced and better fighters individually.

If your answer is III please explain why. thanks

  • 07.07.2011 10:51 AM PDT


Posted by: Mario 347
chief, the only thing that made him epic was that he was in the right situation he was, because halo was destroyed by the pillar of autumn,with cortana's help,the convies were destroyed by the flood, and he got lucky near the end of the war, being on earth, instead of standing with his bros and sises in onyx,and he was assitedby arby,johnson,cortana, and miranda (until they killed her), so he could have died ,if he was in other stuff, we will be playing a charater that might be called john, or freddie mercury
Well he was in 200 or so combat missions against the covenant as well. I mean, that's pretty important right?

  • 07.07.2011 11:14 AM PDT

The average SIII is a tad inferior than the average SII, but that is only because of the equipment IIIs are given, when it comes to physical prowess and skill (disregarding certain specializations unique to individuals) both classes of Spartans are completely equal. Each program also has its individual strengths. The IIs were trained for far longer and given more training than just combat and were given the better equipment. The military training in the SIII program was fundamentally the same as that of the IIs, I don't think either one is really better. The advantages of the SIII program was mainly I think the augmentations being able to crank out all participants with zero casualties. Neither program or group is really any better than the other, each is superb and has its own strengths and weaknesses, just like the graduates of each program.

[b]Posted by:[/] ThePredkiller2
Any discussions about Halo 4 or onward are not considered canon in the Bungie Universe, since 343 is making the next three Halo games, thus, they are also irrelevant sources.


Um what? They're canon no matter where you talk about them...am I misreading what you meant? Because what you said here really does not make any sense to me at all, it doesn't matter where you talk about Halo, the canon remains the same no matter where you talk about it. And it actually sounds me like this guy is talking about the Flood, and not Halo 4.

The only enemies that he's fought that weren't Covenant were: Sentinels, only in Halo 1 and 3, by the way, the Arbiter handled all the big stuff, like Enforcers, and the other is the Flood, which he's only fought in large part in Combat Evolved, they don't show up in Halo 3 until the last two levels and that small skirmish in Voi, so most of his battlefield experience is with the Covenant.

IIRC there is only one Enforcer that the Arbiter has to take out on foot in Halo 2, all the other times you have the help of a vehicle, that's not that spectacular.

Yes, John's biggest and primary amount of experience is against the Covenant and Insurrectionists.

And John's actually had quite a bit of experience battling the Flood, yes mainly on Alpha Halo, but he had to fight through them to get to Truth on High Charity, and they actually did play a pretty large part in Halo 3.

Correction, the Elites stopped the Covenant, and Cortana stopped the Flood threat by activating Halo. If you recall, Cortana ventures from his palm into Halo's network. Master Chief just killed Spark 'cuz he was in the way.

It is clear you suffer from a severe case of 'fanboy syndrome', I recommend you visit your nearest pharmaceuticals councilor and receive your medication as soon as possible.


Actually I don't think either side can get the full credit for stopping the Covenant. Neither Humans or Elites could have done with without the other or their two champions (John and Thel respectively). It is true that Thel killed Truth, but John stopping the Halos from firing on that level in Halo 3 was just as imperative to ending the Covenant threat as assassinating Truth was.

And as for Cortana firing Halo to stop the Flood, you have to remember that she really can't do anything on her own unless she's in the system already or is placed there. The only reason Cortana got to Alpha Halo(b) was because John got her there, it would serve you well to remember that. And Cortana wouldn't have even gotten to Alpha Halo(b) if John hadn't fought through the whole of the Flood infested High Charity to rescue her, if not for him then the Gravemind would have completely broken all of Cortana's resistance and then who knows what kind of damage he might have done with her knowledge.

  • 07.07.2011 11:21 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2