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Subject: Why does some people don't remember John Is the best Spartan?

I am invisible, understand, simply because people refuse to see me.
--Ralph Ellison

Posted by: Juan Teran
Nice parody thread, you stole a smile outta me :D


+1

  • 07.07.2011 11:23 AM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa
The average SIII is a tad inferior than the average SII, but that is only because of the equipment IIIs are given, when it comes to physical prowess and skill (disregarding certain specializations unique to individuals) both classes of Spartans are completely equal.


Agreed, but SPARTANS B312, B320, A259, A266, and A239 were selected and extracted from their respective companies because of their prowess and their genetics were considered equal to that, if not above, that of a SPARTAN-II, I'm pretty sure it says this in Halsey's journal, if not I know I've read it somewhere.

Posted by: OrderedComa
Um what? They're canon no matter where you talk about them...am I misreading what you meant? Because what you said here really does not make any sense to me at all, it doesn't matter where you talk about Halo, the canon remains the same no matter where you talk about it. And it actually sounds me like this guy is talking about the Flood, and not Halo 4.


Yeah, I was partly messing with him anyway. And yes it was the Flood. =P

Posted by: OrderedComa
IIRC there is only one Enforcer that the Arbiter has to take out on foot in Halo 2, all the other times you have the help of a vehicle, that's not that spectacular.


You have to fight two, actually. There is a third outside the wall too if I remember correctly.

Posted by: OrderedComa
And John's actually had quite a bit of experience battling the Flood, yes mainly on Alpha Halo, but he had to fight through them to get to Truth on High Charity, and they actually did play a pretty large part in Halo 3.


I only remember encountering them in large part in Floodgate, Cortana, and Halo, and the last level mostly has you running from them. The Flood are a powerful adversary, and it was wise of him to do so, only a fool faces an enemy he cannot defeat.

Posted by: OrderedComa
Actually I don't think either side can get the full credit for stopping the Covenant. Neither Humans or Elites could have done with without the other or their two champions (John and Thel respectively).


Champions? What? All forces played a part in the dissolution of the Covenant and stopping the Flood. John, Cortana and Thel do not get full credit.

Posted by: OrderedComa
It is true that Thel killed Truth, but John stopping the Halos from firing on that level in Halo 3 was just as imperative to ending the Covenant threat as assassinating Truth was.
John would've been standing there with his thumb up his ass if he didn't have Cortana to do it for him.

Posted by: OrderedComa
And as for Cortana firing Halo to stop the Flood, you have to remember that she really can't do anything on her own unless she's in the system already or is placed there.


Yep, having a 7' super-soldier in power armor and an 8' tall elite commander really pays off.

Posted by: OrderedComa
The only reason Cortana got to Alpha Halo(b) was because John got her there, it would serve you well to remember that.


Yeah, I know, it would serve you well to remember that Cortana has gotten him out of many sticky situations, and many of his 'feats' that he has accomplished have been with her assistance (i.e. disabling and reactivating the bomb inside the Carrier, stopping Halo, escaping Flood infection, activating Halo in Halo 3, etc etc)

Posted by: OrderedComa
And Cortana wouldn't have even gotten to Alpha Halo(b) if John hadn't fought through the whole of the Flood infested High Charity to rescue her,


John also wouldn't have known how to destroy High Charity without her assistance, so I guess its lucky for him that she was there, particularly since she had the index, which he would have needed to activate Halo.

[Edited on 07.07.2011 4:58 PM PDT]

  • 07.07.2011 4:57 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression

John isn't the best Spartan in any regard, all he has is plot shielding.
Other than that he isn't special.

  • 07.07.2011 7:42 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: ExcellentSix
John isn't the best Spartan in any regard, all he has is plot shielding.
Other than that he isn't special.

Haha, plot shielding.

That's a really definitive and relevant pun.

  • 07.07.2011 7:45 PM PDT

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Agreed, but SPARTANS B312, B320, A259, A266, and A239 were selected and extracted from their respective companies because of their prowess and their genetics were considered equal to that, if not above, that of a SPARTAN-II, I'm pretty sure it says this in Halsey's journal, if not I know I've read it somewhere.


Mhm, most if not all of the SIIIs that best fit the qualifications of the SIIs strict genetic requirements were pulled out before the final big suicide ops. Noble Team, and whatever others like them might be out there probably would have been amongst the candidates for SIIs (whether they actually would have made it into the program or not, who knows) if they had been born earlier or the SII program had continued for a second class.

Yeah, I was partly messing with him anyway. And yes it was the Flood. =P

Haha ok, I didn't think it sounded serious XD Well that gets rid of my confusion on the matter, lol.

You have to fight two, actually. There is a third outside the wall too if I remember correctly.

Ah ok, the only one I remembered was the one that Tartarus specifically tasks you with taking out to open up the wall. Other than all the countless ones you destroy in your vehicle ride to the Library of course :P

I only remember encountering them in large part in Floodgate, Cortana, and Halo, and the last level mostly has you running from them. The Flood are a powerful adversary, and it was wise of him to do so, only a fool faces an enemy he cannot defeat.

Well yes those are specifically the only levels you fight them on, and the Covenant, but that was a rather small skirmish. :/ I didn't see the last level of H3 so much running from the Flood as escaping Alpha(b)'s self-destruction, but that's my take anyway.

Champions? What? All forces played a part in the dissolution of the Covenant and stopping the Flood. John, Cortana and Thel do not get full credit.

I know they don't get full credit for the winning, but victory was achieved in large part through their efforts. And regardless of what they actually did what I meant by champion was something similar to Martin Luther King Jr. essentially being the face of the Civil Rights movement in America or George Washington being the face of the Revolutionary War (yes I know that he didn't do all the work or anything like that, but the success of America's war for independence was achieved in large part through his organization and leadership of the military). That's what I meant when I called them the champions of their respective sides. Others did their part, and I don't think either John or Thel could have gotten to that point or achieved the destruction of the Covenant without the past and present efforts of others. But I am sure that both were regarded as some of the most important if not most important players in the war by their respective sides.

John would've been standing there with his thumb up his ass if he didn't have Cortana to do it for him.

Actually he had no trouble at all shutting down the firing of the Halos when he and Thel went to rescue Johnson and stop Truth. Remember John didn't have Cortana with him at that point, it was before he went into High Charity after her.

Yep, having a 7' super-soldier in power armor and an 8' tall elite commander really pays off.

Haha it really does, Cortana really couldn't do enact any of her ideas if she didn't have somebody to tell them to :P

Yeah, I know, it would serve you well to remember that Cortana has gotten him out of many sticky situations, and many of his 'feats' that he has accomplished have been with her assistance (i.e. disabling and reactivating the bomb inside the Carrier, stopping Halo, escaping Flood infection, activating Halo in Halo 3, etc etc)

I do remember, I know that John hasn't done everything alone, but relying on others and working with them doesn't diminish what you do alone any less. Personally I think he could of activated or deactivated the bomb himself, having Cortana just made it easier. By stopping Halo I assume you mean when John almost activated it and that whole humorous cutscene in CE? And by escaping infection by the Flood I believe you mean that one Infection form that almost got him? For the first bit I really don't think that reflects that poorly on John, it's not his fault that the insane overseer of the Ring left out the little detail that Halo kills Flood food sources and not the parasite itself, and not to mention completely mistook John for someone else entirely who did know about the Rings (I'd assume the Didact). For the one about the narrow Flood infection, was that in the Library or not long after he'd encountered them in the Quarantine Facility? I'll have a proper response once my memory is refreshed. I don't know how the Index works exactly, whether another can or ever is made or not, but activating 04(b) is something John could have done on his own too, he didn't need Cortana to do it for him. Cortana apparently having the only Index for 04(b) (like I said, I don't know if the Index can ever be destroyed so I don't know if a new one would ever be made), was what necessitated his going in for her, not that he wouldn't have gone in there after all ready of course, after all "when he makes a promise he keeps it" :P

John also wouldn't have known how to destroy High Charity without her assistance, so I guess its lucky for him that she was there, particularly since she had the index, which he would have needed to activate Halo.

I'm not so sure that destroying High Charity was on his itinerary until Cortana mentioned it. Well he wouldn't have needed the Index if the Gravemind hadn't come to the Ark :P He still would have gone back for Cortana though since he had promised he would return for her after he finished with Truth. The Gravemind and the Flood coming to the Ark is what made attaining the Index a necessity.

  • 07.07.2011 7:51 PM PDT


Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: ExcellentSix
John isn't the best Spartan in any regard, all he has is plot shielding.
Other than that he isn't special.

Haha, plot shielding.

That's a really definitive and relevant pun.


I always try to look for realistic causes for his feats. "Plot shield" is always a simple solution, but I think it is in large part because he possessed the two most advanced pieces of machinery in human history, the MJOLNIR armor and more so, Cortana. Not to mention the best allies anyone could ever have, Arbiter, Johnson, Blue Team, Half-Jaw, Miranda Keyes.

It wasn't that he was just "lucky", he analyzed the enemies weaknesses and fall points and exploited them, he thought tactically, and examined his situations before undertaking them in the most literal and realistic way, or most effective way, possible, and to benefit as many people as possible. I am pretty sure there was some math included when John calculated the exact spot the Carrier would be when he jumped from Cairo Station, when Cortana asked him if he would miss, he said he wouldn't with pretty thorough confidence, my best guess is, utilizing his Spartan brains, he observed the Carrier's trajectory, and calculated its exact location down to the decimal, and then he jumped when he was sure he wouldn't miss.

In my honest opinion, he wasn't the luckiest, he was the most careful and analytical, it seems that way in the books anyway.

  • 07.07.2011 10:29 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

The same could be said for the other spartans. Overpowered by the plot..,
Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: ExcellentSix
John isn't the best Spartan in any regard, all he has is plot shielding.
Other than that he isn't special.

Haha, plot shielding.

That's a really definitive and relevant pun.

  • 07.08.2011 1:11 AM PDT

don't forget, he also had the latest armor, which the spartans like noble 6 from the spartan-III program didn't have. also, if it wasn't for noble 6, he wouldn't even be alive. he was in cryo when Reach was invaded, and woken up on the Pillar of Autumn. i still think noble 6 was the best, because without him, we wouldn't even have the Master Chief. plus, the chief was a Spartan-II, hence he had a very big advantage, got the best armor, while spartans like noble 6 were usually sent on suicide missions.

[Edited on 07.08.2011 1:32 AM PDT]

  • 07.08.2011 1:29 AM PDT

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