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Subject: So I re-read TFOR

People need to stop bagging on Reach because they can't write a better story than the one Bungie and 343 did.Yes, the book is amazing, but it is a book. They wouldn't make a game about a book, because you already know what's gonna happen.

  • 07.12.2011 7:23 PM PDT

'life is a stare down with death himself'


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Gamer Whale

Posted by: Kyle Knight
I personally prefer the book canon. Makes more sense.

It makes sense that when lots (was it hundreds?) of covie dropships fly towards SMAC generators, skyhawks and wombats aren't scrambled to intercept?


My main issue with the ground battle.

In the books, the ground battle feels like a half-assed rush defense by the UNSC. NO air support launched or fielded(bar a SINGLE flight of longswords which bomb the hell out of friendlies), the generator bunkers are half-dried concrete, the areas that should have the most defenses are overrun REALLY DAMN QUICK.

I mean, all these points on the planet being assaulted at the same time by hundreds of dropships (total that made it to the pole, taking HEAVY loses) within 2-3 hours, and they would have had to regroup to figure out what was remaining, and travel time (and search time, as they wouldn't know where everything was.)

Why didn't the ground forces on Reach get mobilized as soon as the Covenant enter the system? There is no reason for that.

Total Available Military Manpower: 385,421,100
Total Land Assets: 58,430
Total Naval Assets: 1,209 (T); 75 (X)
Total Air Assets: 11,050
Serviceable Airports: 1,246


You are telling me that defensive force fell within 2, maybe three hours, to a few hundred dropships? I mean, come on, UNSC typically won nearly all ground battles. Yet when they have home-field advantage, know where their enemies are, have fortifications AND numbers, they get their asses handed to them instantly? Doesn't make sense at all.

naval assets include every thing that can fly (or float) in space. only a fraction of those (around half of the covenant fleet, not including orbital SMACs) were actual warships. the covenant, on the other hand, had amassed a fleet of around 300.

  • 07.12.2011 7:42 PM PDT

I copied the entire assets bit. My comments are directly pointing at the ground battle, not the space one.

  • 07.12.2011 7:43 PM PDT


Posted by: nozer666
You need to remember though, Bungie owned the rights to Halo so the game canon is more important then the book canon.

Their right to do that in my mind was destroyed when they butchered the story of Reach with that panzee ass and wrong version of what happaned.

  • 07.12.2011 8:47 PM PDT


Posted by: ShadowSpy117
People need to stop bagging on Reach because they can't write a better story than the one Bungie and 343 did.Yes, the book is amazing, but it is a book. They wouldn't make a game about a book, because you already know what's gonna happen.

Bungie's tag line for Reach "From the beginning, you KNOW THE END"
So we already knew it was gunna burn and die..why not tell the better already well established story that everyone loves?

  • 07.12.2011 8:48 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DoubleP1243
It's been like 8 years since I've read that book last and i forgot a few details that made the book kick ass. After re-reading The Fall Of Reach it is very very clear that Halo Reach's story sucked monkey nuts and isnt worthy of being cannon compared to Eric Nylunds story. Ipso facto it might as well have never been made. The end.


I vehemently and almost entirely disagree. The final portion of TFoR (the part that actually deals with the Battle of Reach and its fall) left very much to be desired. The ground battle made the UNSC forces look like a bunch of completely incompetent and bumbling boobs. I really do not think Nylund did the story any justice by having Reach fall in a measly two hours, especially when all throughout the book they had been making a big deal about how strong Reach was and how it would be one of the few colonies actually READY for the Covenant when it inevitably arrived. And then what do we get treated to? An extremely absurd amount of time for the planet to fall that makes the UNSC appear as incompetents who shouldn't even be running anything and the Covenant looking like a bunch of insanely overpowered God-mode Mary-Sues of the villainous variety. I really do not think that the depiction of the battle as laid out in TFoR did the Battle of Reach justice. (and yes I read TFoR before Reach came out, it wasn't a very large gap of time, but I did read it before then, so my thoughts are not entirely colored by the game, I thought this way before I even saw any of the games overall story).

Now the game has problems as well, nothing is perfect after all, however I think it does the Battle of Reach far more justice, at least as far as the ground battles are concerned. All in all I don't think either story is really perfect by itself, together is where they form the great story and epic tale of Reach's Fall.

Know what? You're just wrong.

  • 07.12.2011 8:50 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I copied the entire assets bit. My comments are directly pointing at the ground battle, not the space one.


You do realize that those numbers were directly made up by Bungie right? It certainly didn't come from 343 nor Nylund.

But in regards to the actual book, there was never any specified numbers for actual ground forces. Even if there were, the book wasn't focused on it except for generator defense, which was even also left vague as it only focused primarily on the surviving Spartan's efforts. Just because it didn't focused on the entire UNSC ground complement doesn't mean that they didn't put up a fight, which was stated two have continued for two more weeks at least.

  • 07.12.2011 8:52 PM PDT


Posted by: A Puzzled Mind

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I copied the entire assets bit. My comments are directly pointing at the ground battle, not the space one.


You do realize that those numbers were directly made up by Bungie right? It certainly didn't come from 343 nor Nylund.

But in regards to the actual book, there was never any specified numbers for actual ground forces. Even if there were, the book wasn't focused on it except for generator defense, which was even also left vague as it only focused primarily on the surviving Spartan's efforts. Just because it didn't focused on the entire UNSC ground complement doesn't mean that they didn't put up a fight, which was stated two have continued for two more weeks at least.


Everything I could tell from the book was those drawn out fights was the small groups of spartans poking the Covenant with needles, and not organized military forces. I'm not saying they should've focused on the ground, but the lack of descriptions and the sudden "WE ARE OVERRUN!" happening SO soon after the dropships made it to the poles screams of lackluster defense.

edit: So? the numbers where they way before 343 took the reigns. Does them coming from bungie suddenly make them false?

[Edited on 07.12.2011 9:01 PM PDT]

  • 07.12.2011 8:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: ninjakenzen
If you see this as all as "terrible writing" because it wasn't the bit in the cover art as you expected well then so be it.
You summarised the plot, and got into the concept of dying at or retreating from your home, doing all you can.

However, Eric Nylund is still a terrible writer. Some of the sentences are so ridiculous he may as well write "And then he blew up."
I find little description in his writing, and most of it seems to ride off familiarity with concepts in the game rather than standing up on itself. Yes, I know TFoR came first and whatnot, but it's just so lacking in detail that it's hard to get a hang of it without first playing the Halo game(s) that came after it.

Good day.

Sneaky edit:
Posted by: DoubleP1243
Know what? You're just wrong.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that's a thread killer right there.

[Edited on 07.12.2011 10:00 PM PDT]

  • 07.12.2011 9:52 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: A Puzzled Mind

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I copied the entire assets bit. My comments are directly pointing at the ground battle, not the space one.


You do realize that those numbers were directly made up by Bungie right? It certainly didn't come from 343 nor Nylund.

But in regards to the actual book, there was never any specified numbers for actual ground forces. Even if there were, the book wasn't focused on it except for generator defense, which was even also left vague as it only focused primarily on the surviving Spartan's efforts. Just because it didn't focused on the entire UNSC ground complement doesn't mean that they didn't put up a fight, which was stated two have continued for two more weeks at least.


Everything I could tell from the book was those drawn out fights was the small groups of spartans poking the Covenant with needles, and not organized military forces. I'm not saying they should've focused on the ground, but the lack of descriptions and the sudden "WE ARE OVERRUN!" happening SO soon after the dropships made it to the poles screams of lackluster defense.

edit: So? the numbers where they way before 343 took the reigns. Does them coming from bungie suddenly make them false?


It seems that you are suffering from intellectual disconnect.

I'm not even going to bother explaining...

  • 07.12.2011 11:16 PM PDT

I'll admit I haven't read First strike in a while, but I don't remember there actually being solid combat for that long. (As in, UNSC marine/army trooper positions holding out.)

  • 07.12.2011 11:35 PM PDT
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I partially agree with OP, but First Strike is better for describing entire battle of Reach and you can link tFoR's ending as First Strike ends with Reach.

And, few hundred dropships? That's Keye's perspective. He wouldn't have possibly saw ALL of them. You forget that there may be God's perspective which it can be more than few hundred dropships.

Sorry but Reach would better as following tFoR and First Strike instead. And I don't think most of Halo players actually did read those novels so it's more likely that it wouldn't be so bland. Not me, because it would be cool to see how it happened as books described.

  • 07.12.2011 11:37 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: raganok99
I partially agree with OP, but First Strike is better for describing entire battle of Reach and you can link tFoR's ending as First Strike ends with Reach.

And, few hundred dropships? That's Keye's perspective. He wouldn't have possibly saw ALL of them. You forget that there may be God's perspective which it can be more than few hundred dropships.

Even if there were a thousand dropships on Reach, there is this:
Total Available Military Manpower: 385,421,100
Total Air Assets: 11,050

Because available military manpower is hundreds of millions, I'm going to assume 11,050 is the amount of aircraft, and big amount of those would be combat craft, which would mean that against a thousand (or lets make it two thousand) dropships there would thousands of fighters and interceptors. But, for some reason, they weren't scrambled.


Sorry but Reach would better as following tFoR and First Strike instead. And I don't think most of Halo players actually did read those novels so it's more likely that it wouldn't be so bland. Not me, because it would be cool to see how it happened as books described.

There was this thread on reach forum (tried to find it) that said that a game based on the book would have been worse. There was some good points, like character development would have been crappier because there would be different characters on every mission, and there wouldn't have been a lot of missions. (Fight your way trough a space station to press a button, and defend generators and get overrun.)

  • 07.13.2011 12:23 AM PDT

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