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Subject: Timeline for the Battle of Reach

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

If you think about it, using Reach's logic we can further solve the clashing parts of the Fall of Reach. So, we know that in the book the battle of Reach lasted 2 hours, because the Covenant deployed dropships to the SMAC generators, now, using the book logic it wouldn't make sense, I mean, they just arrived and knew where to go.

But if you use the events of Halo: Reach it makes more sense since the Covenant were in Reach for over a month without really being noticed, so they could have gathered information and thus, when the main fleet arrived, they already knew what zones to attack, that would help both sides as the Reach would still keep the whole scouting party thing and The Fall of Reach would finally make sense with the whole droships knowing where to attack thing.

  • 07.12.2011 3:43 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
If you think about it, using Reach's logic we can further solve the clashing parts of the Fall of Reach. So, we know that in the book the battle of Reach lasted 2 hours, because the Covenant deployed dropships to the SMAC generators, now, using the book logic it wouldn't make sense, I mean, they just arrived and knew where to go.

But if you use the events of Halo: Reach it makes more sense since the Covenant were in Reach for over a month without really being noticed, so they could have gathered information and thus, when the main fleet arrived, they already knew what zones to attack, that would help both sides as the Reach would still keep the whole scouting party thing and The Fall of Reach would finally make sense with the whole droships knowing where to attack thing.

I agree.

I loved Eric Nylund's work on the fiction. But now I see that the two pieces are meant to work together for the most part. Yes, there were some retcons, but there was nothing really major that doesn't any sense whatsoever.

  • 07.12.2011 3:51 PM PDT
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I do like the strategy that the Covies use regarding the sneak in sneak out, huge fleet arrives. But how would they do that on other planets? I mean, the Spires were used specifically for Reach because meteor strikes on Reach are common. So what would the Covies use for other planets?

It's already strange enough that the Covies are using new technology as they don't advance very fast at all.

  • 07.12.2011 3:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
If you think about it, using Reach's logic we can further solve the clashing parts of the Fall of Reach. So, we know that in the book the battle of Reach lasted 2 hours, because the Covenant deployed dropships to the SMAC generators, now, using the book logic it wouldn't make sense, I mean, they just arrived and knew where to go.

But if you use the events of Halo: Reach it makes more sense since the Covenant were in Reach for over a month without really being noticed, so they could have gathered information and thus, when the main fleet arrived, they already knew what zones to attack, that would help both sides as the Reach would still keep the whole scouting party thing and The Fall of Reach would finally make sense with the whole droships knowing where to attack thing.

I agree.

I loved Eric Nylund's work on the fiction. But now I see that the two pieces are meant to work together for the most part. Yes, there were some retcons, but there was nothing really major that doesn't any sense whatsoever.
POA landing on Reach. What was stopping the Covies from glassing it? You can clearly see at least 10 Covie ships off in the distance doing nothing. Also, how does it even land without sustaining major damage to its hull?

  • 07.12.2011 3:54 PM PDT

The Ban Hammer is all that was and all that will be! The Ban Hammer is time and space, life and death! The Ban Hammer can see into your mind! The Ban Hammer can see into your soouull....

Well the explanation for "new technology" was Reach was when both Covies and Humans were at their peak. New weapons still in beta. So after reach their pretty much depleted on weaponry so they fall back on older techs (which are only new to the FPS player)

  • 07.12.2011 3:55 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Nope.

Anything that happened on the 30th doesn't add up. I don't really have the time right now for a long explanation, but I've posted it before.

Keyes wouldn't send the spartans down to Reach in a pelican if he was going to go down there himself 10 minutes later.

  • 07.12.2011 3:58 PM PDT

The Ban Hammer is all that was and all that will be! The Ban Hammer is time and space, life and death! The Ban Hammer can see into your mind! The Ban Hammer can see into your soouull....


Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
If you think about it, using Reach's logic we can further solve the clashing parts of the Fall of Reach. So, we know that in the book the battle of Reach lasted 2 hours, because the Covenant deployed dropships to the SMAC generators, now, using the book logic it wouldn't make sense, I mean, they just arrived and knew where to go.

But if you use the events of Halo: Reach it makes more sense since the Covenant were in Reach for over a month without really being noticed, so they could have gathered information and thus, when the main fleet arrived, they already knew what zones to attack, that would help both sides as the Reach would still keep the whole scouting party thing and The Fall of Reach would finally make sense with the whole droships knowing where to attack thing.

I agree.

I loved Eric Nylund's work on the fiction. But now I see that the two pieces are meant to work together for the most part. Yes, there were some retcons, but there was nothing really major that doesn't any sense whatsoever.
POA landing on Reach. What was stopping the Covies from glassing it? You can clearly see at least 10 Covie ships off in the distance doing nothing. Also, how does it even land without sustaining major damage to its hull?


In the Reach Datapads, it was estimated that glassing an entire planet for the size of the covenant armada would take 34 months (off the top of my head number, sorry). So certain things come first. The Prophets say kill all humans. So killing the civillians comes first, since they are easy targets. Then you gotta take control of the air, so your fleets hover in atmosphere to launch ordinance, and to gravlift vehicles and infantry on the ground. They can't just fly here and there and glass everything quickly. And using Azod shipwrecking yards to hide the Autumn was clever. They wouldn't need to glass a pile of junk. etc etc.

But the POA landing. yes this one is hard to figure out. How do you land a huge ship on a planet without assistance against gravity. It's just logically impossible to explain due to hull stress, microfractures from gravitational torque...i dunno on that one.

[Edited on 07.12.2011 4:02 PM PDT]

  • 07.12.2011 3:59 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Billy Vandergaw
Halsey makes it back to Sword Base using the underground passage way. If you listen you find out where halsey is held up is 15kliqs away and underground, and when they leave they walk out without any problems to two pelicans....soooo halsey flies back under radar, and goes in that way.


Here's one issue that's a bit of food for thought. How is it that the Forerunner artifact's actual location (which is right next to the landing pad if that explosion is any indication) eluded the Covenant for so long, and how did they manage to find it conveniently when Noble Team got there? No one was exactly around to follow them.


My guess would have to be detecting and tracking the Comm chatter between Halsey and Noble Team, or something of a similar nature.

  • 07.12.2011 4:05 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Billy Vandergaw
Halsey makes it back to Sword Base using the underground passage way. If you listen you find out where halsey is held up is 15kliqs away and underground, and when they leave they walk out without any problems to two pelicans....soooo halsey flies back under radar, and goes in that way.


Here's one issue that's a bit of food for thought. How is it that the Forerunner artifact's actual location (which is right next to the landing pad if that explosion is any indication) eluded the Covenant for so long, and how did they manage to find it conveniently when Noble Team got there? No one was exactly around to follow them.


My guess would have to be detecting and tracking the Comm chatter between Halsey and Noble Team, or something of a similar nature.


That's the most logical thing to think.

  • 07.12.2011 4:21 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: privet caboose
Nope.

Anything that happened on the 30th doesn't add up. I don't really have the time right now for a long explanation, but I've posted it before.

Keyes wouldn't send the spartans down to Reach in a pelican if he was going to go down there himself 10 minutes later.

Yes, he would, because where the Spartans need to go and where he needs to be are two different things. Red Team was supposed to defend SMAC generators, who knows where, but supposedly no where near the Aszod drydock where Keyes had to pick up the package.

  • 07.12.2011 4:31 PM PDT

The Ban Hammer is all that was and all that will be! The Ban Hammer is time and space, life and death! The Ban Hammer can see into your mind! The Ban Hammer can see into your soouull....

YEAH! Cause spartans need to go where spartans need to go! And where they need to go is MIA! YEAH!

[Edited on 07.13.2011 9:24 AM PDT]

  • 07.12.2011 4:43 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Nope.

Anything that happened on the 30th doesn't add up. I don't really have the time right now for a long explanation, but I've posted it before.

Keyes wouldn't send the spartans down to Reach in a pelican if he was going to go down there himself 10 minutes later.


I've pointed out the flaws with this before, it seems I shall do it again.

Keyes did not know he would be going down to the planet, and it certainly wasn't ten minutes later. Halsey would have sent out her communique to the Autumn sometime after Keyes had picked up Blue Team, that's between 15-30 minutes after Red Team undergoes their hot drop. What you're trying to do just doesn't work, you can't apply what we outside the story know ahead of time or find out comes later to the characters. Keyes had absolutely no way of knowing that he would be going planet side, and if he did then he would have taken Red Team down with him and then sent them off.

  • 07.12.2011 5:06 PM PDT

It's an admirable goal trying to link up the canon from both sources but I don't think it's possible

While you've done a pretty good job some things still don't make sense such as the movement of the Spartans between deployment and briefing/testing. Also in the book there is no urgency in the Spartans or other staff when preparing for the mission, no reference to the invasion currently happening.

We could argue that it was only a small fleet but that seems unlikely. After the destruction of the Long Night of Solace, Holland says that the incoming forces "must be the whole damn covenant fleet". This is when the covenant invasion proper begins I'd say

The UNSC are clearly outmatched at this point as seen by their little presence at New Alexandria. If second covenant force was small then surely there'd be some sort of UNSC ships assisting in the evacuations

Also for this to work the Pillar of Autumn would have to be able to move anywhere it wants without any opposition. And wasn't Cortana on the ship to begin with?

Despite all of this, the timeline could work if we assume the mjolnir testing and mission briefing were done earlier maybe in July

  • 07.12.2011 6:04 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Delta 0403
It's an admirable goal trying to link up the canon from both sources but I don't think it's possible

While you've done a pretty good job some things still don't make sense such as the movement of the Spartans between deployment and briefing/testing. Also in the book there is no urgency in the Spartans or other staff when preparing for the mission, no reference to the invasion currently happening.

We could argue that it was only a small fleet but that seems unlikely. After the destruction of the Long Night of Solace, Holland says that the incoming forces "must be the whole damn covenant fleet". This is when the covenant invasion proper begins I'd say

The UNSC are clearly outmatched at this point as seen by their little presence at New Alexandria. If second covenant force was small then surely there'd be some sort of UNSC ships assisting in the evacuations

Also for this to work the Pillar of Autumn would have to be able to move anywhere it wants without any opposition. And wasn't Cortana on the ship to begin with?

Despite all of this, the timeline could work if we assume the mjolnir testing and mission briefing were done earlier maybe in July


When John was going to go do the test/or talk about the artifact in Sigma Octanus, can't really remember, he noticed that most of the people at the base seemed to be on edge, as if something fishy was going on, why would they be if everything was okay?

  • 07.12.2011 6:09 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

When John was going to go do the test/or talk about the artifact in Sigma Octanus, can't really remember, he noticed that most of the people at the base seemed to be on edge, as if something fishy was going on, why would they be if everything was okay?


I think you're right, it's been a while since I've read the book, but that could have been due to a number of things. Also why would the UNSC be sending their best soldiers on a mission while their most important military planet was being invaded, even if the invasion force wasn't large?

  • 07.12.2011 6:28 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Delta 0403

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

When John was going to go do the test/or talk about the artifact in Sigma Octanus, can't really remember, he noticed that most of the people at the base seemed to be on edge, as if something fishy was going on, why would they be if everything was okay?


I think you're right, it's been a while since I've read the book, but that could have been due to a number of things. Also why would the UNSC be sending their best soldiers on a mission while their most important military planet was being invaded, even if the invasion force wasn't large?


For the sole reason that it wasn't that large, I doubt that the UNSC used Spartans for every single engagement against the Covenant after all.

  • 07.12.2011 6:30 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

In the early morning of the 30th, Halsey tells Noble Team that the pillar is already waiting for them. Keyes was apparently already on the planet when the sun was just rising.

  • 07.12.2011 6:37 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Delta 0403

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

When John was going to go do the test/or talk about the artifact in Sigma Octanus, can't really remember, he noticed that most of the people at the base seemed to be on edge, as if something fishy was going on, why would they be if everything was okay?


I think you're right, it's been a while since I've read the book, but that could have been due to a number of things. Also why would the UNSC be sending their best soldiers on a mission while their most important military planet was being invaded, even if the invasion force wasn't large?


For the sole reason that it wasn't that large, I doubt that the UNSC used Spartans for every single engagement against the Covenant after all.


That's true but when you have access to all of these Spartans and the "crown jewel" city of New Alexandria is being bombarded while civilians are being evacuated wouldn't you use them, put the operation on hold to defend Reach?

Although contradicting myself maybe the line of thought was that the top brass predicted further covenant reinforcements and thought if the Spartans could capture the Covenant leadership before Reach was glassed they could save the planet through negotiations. However that's a long stretch as the mission wasn't supposed to be quick, didn't it involve just stumbling across a lone covenant ship

  • 07.12.2011 6:42 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: privet caboose
In the early morning of the 30th, Halsey tells Noble Team that the pillar is already waiting for them. Keyes was apparently already on the planet when the sun was just rising.

Halsey never said explicitly that the Autumn had already landed on the planet, but it would be waiting for them by the time they got there. The location of Sword Base in comparison to Aszod is a long distance, half way around the planet.

  • 07.13.2011 9:19 AM PDT

The Ban Hammer is all that was and all that will be! The Ban Hammer is time and space, life and death! The Ban Hammer can see into your mind! The Ban Hammer can see into your soouull....


Posted by: Delta 0403
It's an admirable goal trying to link up the canon from both sources but I don't think it's possible

While you've done a pretty good job some things still don't make sense such as the movement of the Spartans between deployment and briefing/testing. Also in the book there is no urgency in the Spartans or other staff when preparing for the mission, no reference to the invasion currently happening.

We could argue that it was only a small fleet but that seems unlikely. After the destruction of the Long Night of Solace, Holland says that the incoming forces "must be the whole damn covenant fleet". This is when the covenant invasion proper begins I'd say

The UNSC are clearly outmatched at this point as seen by their little presence at New Alexandria. If second covenant force was small then surely there'd be some sort of UNSC ships assisting in the evacuations

Also for this to work the Pillar of Autumn would have to be able to move anywhere it wants without any opposition. And wasn't Cortana on the ship to begin with?

Despite all of this, the timeline could work if we assume the mjolnir testing and mission briefing were done earlier maybe in July


Cortana can split herself off into parts. The part that Noble Six carries to the Autumn is a decrypting version that Cortana left to decipher the forerunner tech under swordbase. SOOOO....cortana is already on the Autumn. That's why Cortana doesn't really talk at all in the game, she doesn't have a voice, she's just stripped down to a hacking lulsec version. :P

  • 07.13.2011 9:30 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

UWG

My jokes, so I don't lose them (ignore this):
ZedFish's Opinion on Sgt. Foley.
ZedFish's Forerunner Rickroll.

Why did nobody think of this earlier? I'd say that this is the best arrangement we'll get for the two canon sources.

I'd help with more canon-y stuff, but I'm too tired. I'll just have to leave you with my congratulations.
"Canon is destroyed", my ass.
Great job!

  • 07.13.2011 9:40 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
In the early morning of the 30th, Halsey tells Noble Team that the pillar is already waiting for them. Keyes was apparently already on the planet when the sun was just rising.


Are you referring to what Halsey says in the Artifact, or after they've gone outside? Because Halsey's line in Lab is written in the future tense talking about what they are to do and what they will find there. That is not saying the Autumn is already at Aszod waiting.

And when they're on the landing pad, it's Dot who mentions the Autumn, and not Halsey. I've estimated by the level of light outside at that point that it would be between 7:00 and 8:00. And remember, the Autumn had picked up Blue at approximately 6:15. That's plenty of time for the Autumn to get to Aszod and be there waiting for them.

  • 07.13.2011 11:55 AM PDT

Impossible isn't a fact its an opinion

Nicely put togeather.. I still havent read my copy of Halsey's jornel lol ive read all the novels but i havent found time for the jornel

  • 07.13.2011 12:19 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: Blackbird56695
Nicely put togeather.. I still havent read my copy of Halsey's jornel lol ive read all the novels but i havent found time for the jornel

The journal is, to an extent, a summary of the first novel, with extra tidbits taken and obviously not combat.

  • 07.13.2011 6:26 PM PDT

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Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
In the early morning of the 30th, Halsey tells Noble Team that the pillar is already waiting for them. Keyes was apparently already on the planet when the sun was just rising.


Are you referring to what Halsey says in the Artifact, or after they've gone outside? Because Halsey's line in Lab is written in the future tense talking about what they are to do and what they will find there. That is not saying the Autumn is already at Aszod waiting.

And when they're on the landing pad, it's Dot who mentions the Autumn, and not Halsey. I've estimated by the level of light outside at that point that it would be between 7:00 and 8:00. And remember, the Autumn had picked up Blue at approximately 6:15. That's plenty of time for the Autumn to get to Aszod and be there waiting for them.


Yes but don't forget that the lighting has been skewed thanks to the fires burning all around Reach. It's supposed to be the dead of night by the time The Package starts, and I find it personally hard to grasp that Noble Team spent several hours infiltrating Sword Base, then extracting Halsey before finally leaving. Nor would the Covenant sit idly by for so long after that initial attack for the humans to destroy the artifact.

That said, Dot's dialogue wouldn't add up as a result as it wouldn't explain why several human convoys en route to the site were already decimated there prior to Noble Team leaving. Along with Covenant forces heading to the site and the Autumn waiting there in the present tense.

Hmm...

  • 07.13.2011 7:47 PM PDT

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