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Subject: Timeline for the Battle of Reach
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
In the early morning of the 30th, Halsey tells Noble Team that the pillar is already waiting for them. Keyes was apparently already on the planet when the sun was just rising.


Are you referring to what Halsey says in the Artifact, or after they've gone outside? Because Halsey's line in Lab is written in the future tense talking about what they are to do and what they will find there. That is not saying the Autumn is already at Aszod waiting.

And when they're on the landing pad, it's Dot who mentions the Autumn, and not Halsey. I've estimated by the level of light outside at that point that it would be between 7:00 and 8:00. And remember, the Autumn had picked up Blue at approximately 6:15. That's plenty of time for the Autumn to get to Aszod and be there waiting for them.


Yes but don't forget that the lighting has been skewed thanks to the fires burning all around Reach. It's supposed to be the dead of night by the time The Package starts, and I find it personally hard to grasp that Noble Team spent several hours infiltrating Sword Base, then extracting Halsey before finally leaving. Nor would the Covenant sit idly by for so long after that initial attack for the humans to destroy the artifact.

That said, Dot's dialogue wouldn't add up as a result as it wouldn't explain why several human convoys en route to the site were already decimated there prior to Noble Team leaving. Along with Covenant forces heading to the site and the Autumn waiting there in the present tense.

Hmm...


Not to mention the fact the space engagement is done by that time so the fact the PoA isn't destroyed from orbit is ridiculous seeing how the covenant bombed UNSC troops from orbit.

not to mention the slow speed of the CCS class ship was merely for gameplay, funny how they whip around in NA but go slow as hell during PoA.

The whole thing is just messed up.

  • 07.13.2011 7:59 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: grey101
Not to mention the fact the space engagement is done by that time so the fact the PoA isn't destroyed from orbit is ridiculous seeing how the covenant bombed UNSC troops from orbit.

not to mention the slow speed of the CCS class ship was merely for gameplay, funny how they whip around in NA but go slow as hell during PoA.

The whole thing is just messed up.


Maybe they ran out of nitrogen for that particular ship. xD

  • 07.13.2011 8:12 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: grey101
Not to mention the fact the space engagement is done by that time so the fact the PoA isn't destroyed from orbit is ridiculous seeing how the covenant bombed UNSC troops from orbit.

not to mention the slow speed of the CCS class ship was merely for gameplay, funny how they whip around in NA but go slow as hell during PoA.

The whole thing is just messed up.


Maybe they ran out of nitrogen for that particular ship. xD


Or it was piloted by grunts trying to see how fast they could go slow as possible while still moving

  • 07.13.2011 8:14 PM PDT
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In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

I'm glad someone is trying to create an account of the Battle of Reach that satisfies both the game and the book reasonably well, rather than simply whining about the breaks in canon.

  • 07.13.2011 8:27 PM PDT

Anti-Teabag self-destruct mechanisms ftw

The pillar landing can be explained simply. They could easily have used the same boosters that they take off with to land with. Just turn down the gas a little.(in rocketing it would be more like altering the fuel or the shape of the thrusters or something)

This is probably the best sum up of the events and makes the most sense of anything I have read.

Halsey coming in can also be explained by the fact that if the soldiers she was with had only the objective of getting her in, then it would have been very easy for them to slip in unnoticed. Even if they did get noticed they didn't need to take the whole facility or anything, they just had to chop a path to the hidden door.

The covenant showing up can also be explained away. I don't have the name of them but the covenant had machines that could pick up Forerunner tech. If they knew about the structure then they could have been trying to drill and blast in the entire time that they were holding sword base.

  • 07.13.2011 8:41 PM PDT

Anti-Teabag self-destruct mechanisms ftw


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: grey101
Not to mention the fact the space engagement is done by that time so the fact the PoA isn't destroyed from orbit is ridiculous seeing how the covenant bombed UNSC troops from orbit.

not to mention the slow speed of the CCS class ship was merely for gameplay, funny how they whip around in NA but go slow as hell during PoA.

The whole thing is just messed up.


Maybe they ran out of nitrogen for that particular ship. xD


Or it was piloted by grunts trying to see how fast they could go slow as possible while still moving


Or during glassing they have to take power from their engines and put it towards the giant mother fawking laser beam of ownage shooting out the bottom of their ship...

  • 07.13.2011 8:44 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I love how everybody ignores the fact the covenant destroyed everything in orbit. they were then salavaging the armor from destroyed everything.

I don't understand why all of you praise the idea of the PoA being able to do all of this unscathed.

It should have been damaged trying to get back to the planet (actually it should have been destroyed)

IT should have been attacked while on the planet ( It should have been destroyed here for a fact)

It should have been destroyed trying to leave the planet ( Facedesk it should have been destroyed by the covenant fleet in orbit)



Posted by: no name12222235

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: grey101
Not to mention the fact the space engagement is done by that time so the fact the PoA isn't destroyed from orbit is ridiculous seeing how the covenant bombed UNSC troops from orbit.

not to mention the slow speed of the CCS class ship was merely for gameplay, funny how they whip around in NA but go slow as hell during PoA.

The whole thing is just messed up.


Maybe they ran out of nitrogen for that particular ship. xD


Or it was piloted by grunts trying to see how fast they could go slow as possible while still moving


Or during glassing they have to take power from their engines and put it towards the giant mother fawking laser beam of ownage shooting out the bottom of their ship...


I love people quoting and not knowing what they are talking about.

I was talking about how slow the ship was going approaching the PoA.

[Edited on 07.13.2011 8:47 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2011 8:46 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are Destiny.

If John and Linda are aboard the Pillar of Autumn, whatever happened to Linda in Halo: CE?

  • 07.13.2011 9:19 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: acnboy34
If John and Linda are aboard the Pillar of Autumn, whatever happened to Linda in Halo: CE?


The Cryo-Pods were ejected before the Autumn reached Halo and since Linda was clinically dead she was left floating until Halo was destroyed.

[Edited on 07.13.2011 9:33 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2011 9:32 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: acnboy34
If John and Linda are aboard the Pillar of Autumn, whatever happened to Linda in Halo: CE?


Was ejected with the rest of the crew who wasn't yet defrosted :P from cryosleep, they all floated around the Halo, until the chief found them and rescued as many crew as possible among them Linda.

  • 07.13.2011 10:57 PM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are Destiny.

That's awesome! Glad he found her :D

  • 07.14.2011 12:29 AM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
In the early morning of the 30th, Halsey tells Noble Team that the pillar is already waiting for them. Keyes was apparently already on the planet when the sun was just rising.


Are you referring to what Halsey says in the Artifact, or after they've gone outside? Because Halsey's line in Lab is written in the future tense talking about what they are to do and what they will find there. That is not saying the Autumn is already at Aszod waiting.

And when they're on the landing pad, it's Dot who mentions the Autumn, and not Halsey. I've estimated by the level of light outside at that point that it would be between 7:00 and 8:00. And remember, the Autumn had picked up Blue at approximately 6:15. That's plenty of time for the Autumn to get to Aszod and be there waiting for them.


Yes but don't forget that the lighting has been skewed thanks to the fires burning all around Reach. It's supposed to be the dead of night by the time The Package starts, and I find it personally hard to grasp that Noble Team spent several hours infiltrating Sword Base, then extracting Halsey before finally leaving. Nor would the Covenant sit idly by for so long after that initial attack for the humans to destroy the artifact.

That said, Dot's dialogue wouldn't add up as a result as it wouldn't explain why several human convoys en route to the site were already decimated there prior to Noble Team leaving. Along with Covenant forces heading to the site and the Autumn waiting there in the present tense.

Hmm...


Yes, the lighting is messed up slightly due to the fire raging everywhere, yet you can see a clear difference in the natural light at the beginning of the mission and the light in the final cutscene. While you're playing the mission the light is rather orange in tone (like fires), and then the light when they're leaving has a much more natural, clear tone to it. I think it's obvious that the sun is just starting to rise or is at least partially up by the time the mission ends.

Why is it hard to believe that the mission took a couple hours? I don't know how much a click is (or even if it's a real measurement of distance), so I don't know how quickly they'd be able to travel across it, but I don't think it'd be very fast in that little rail car thing, and I don't think it'd be able to descend 2,000 feet all that quickly either. And it also looked to me like Noble and Halsey had a bit of a walk in order to get to the launch pad that was skipped over. That's how it looked to me from the scene transition at least.

  • 07.14.2011 12:34 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
In the early morning of the 30th, Halsey tells Noble Team that the pillar is already waiting for them. Keyes was apparently already on the planet when the sun was just rising.


Are you referring to what Halsey says in the Artifact, or after they've gone outside? Because Halsey's line in Lab is written in the future tense talking about what they are to do and what they will find there. That is not saying the Autumn is already at Aszod waiting.

And when they're on the landing pad, it's Dot who mentions the Autumn, and not Halsey. I've estimated by the level of light outside at that point that it would be between 7:00 and 8:00. And remember, the Autumn had picked up Blue at approximately 6:15. That's plenty of time for the Autumn to get to Aszod and be there waiting for them.


Yes but don't forget that the lighting has been skewed thanks to the fires burning all around Reach. It's supposed to be the dead of night by the time The Package starts, and I find it personally hard to grasp that Noble Team spent several hours infiltrating Sword Base, then extracting Halsey before finally leaving. Nor would the Covenant sit idly by for so long after that initial attack for the humans to destroy the artifact.

That said, Dot's dialogue wouldn't add up as a result as it wouldn't explain why several human convoys en route to the site were already decimated there prior to Noble Team leaving. Along with Covenant forces heading to the site and the Autumn waiting there in the present tense.

Hmm...


Yes, the lighting is messed up slightly due to the fire raging everywhere, yet you can see a clear difference in the natural light at the beginning of the mission and the light in the final cutscene. While you're playing the mission the light is rather orange in tone (like fires), and then the light when they're leaving has a much more natural, clear tone to it. I think it's obvious that the sun is just starting to rise or is at least partially up by the time the mission ends.

Why is it hard to believe that the mission took a couple hours? I don't know how much a click is (or even if it's a real measurement of distance), so I don't know how quickly they'd be able to travel across it, but I don't think it'd be very fast in that little rail car thing, and I don't think it'd be able to descend 2,000 feet all that quickly either. And it also looked to me like Noble and Halsey had a bit of a walk in order to get to the launch pad that was skipped over. That's how it looked to me from the scene transition at least.


A click is the term for kilometer in military speech if I'm not mistaken.

  • 07.14.2011 1:31 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

I love how everybody ignores the fact the covenant destroyed everything in orbit. they were then salavaging the armor from destroyed everything.

I don't understand why all of you praise the idea of the PoA being able to do all of this unscathed.

It should have been damaged trying to get back to the planet (actually it should have been destroyed)

IT should have been attacked while on the planet ( It should have been destroyed here for a fact)

It should have been destroyed trying to leave the planet ( Facedesk it should have been destroyed by the covenant fleet in orbit)

The Pillar of autumn should have been destroyed in the novel as well, especially when trying to escape.

You can call it luck I suppose. A Covenant cruiser did try to destroy the Autumn when it was about to lift off. However, the Covenant was also fighting hundreds of other ships in space simultaneously.

  • 07.14.2011 7:11 PM PDT

HNH

I love you...for awhile I thought that bungie had destroyed the cannon but you gave it light

  • 07.14.2011 9:09 PM PDT

HNH


Posted by: privet caboose
Nope.

Anything that happened on the 30th doesn't add up. I don't really have the time right now for a long explanation, but I've posted it before.

Keyes wouldn't send the spartans down to Reach in a pelican if he was going to go down there himself 10 minutes later.


You got it the other way around, Keyes launched the POA, then he went into space to join the fleet, then he sent the spartans down when the major invasion forces arrived, then john returns with Linda, then they leave, and the spartan in the docking bay could be Linda since it said he immediately froze her

[Edited on 07.14.2011 9:15 PM PDT]

  • 07.14.2011 9:13 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

I have read this and many other threads on how the two stories should be able to mesh.

However after spending A LOT of time trying to reconcile the two, I have come to the conclusion that they do not fit together. Mainly because the Nav Data recovery/destruction mission, and the Autumn being on the surface are absurd when you try to fit them together. The Cole Protocol blah blah blah...

We've been down this road so many times I'm honestly getting kind of sick of it.

[Edited on 07.14.2011 9:31 PM PDT]

  • 07.14.2011 9:25 PM PDT

If you lived to be 100,
I want to live to 100 minus 1 ,
so I never have to spend a day without you.

Atheist? Deist? Skeptic? Free thinker? If you're one of these, or a theist looking for a good debate, try the Secular Sevens!

Here's a little explanation.

Reach and Earth don't share a same time schedule.

[Edited on 07.14.2011 9:31 PM PDT]

  • 07.14.2011 9:30 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: Spartan1065
I have read this and many other threads on how the two stories should be able to mesh.

However after spending A LOT of time trying to reconcile the two, I have come to the conclusion that they do not fit together. Mainly because the Nav Data recovery/destruction mission, and the Autumn being on the surface are absurd when you try to fit them together. The Cole Protocol blah blah blah... We've been down this road so many times I'm honestly getting kind of sick of it.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about it too, yet I reached the opposite conclusion. While I don't think Reach's campaign was exceptional in story telling and character development, I do think it is able to fit in with established canon without demolishing everything before it.

And, when you think about it, Keyes did very absurd things in general. For goodness sake, he rammed the Iroquois into a Covenant ship to defeat at Sigma Octanus IV.

  • 07.14.2011 9:32 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: jredbaron96
Here's a little explanation.

Reach and Earth don't share a same time schedule.

You know, I considered this actually. I actually did some mathematics to determine to exact time difference between Sol and Epsilon Eridani, assuming both systems go on the same 12 month year.

However, it becomes a little convoluted. The original novel cited military calender, whereas the game obviously uses Reach calender. You could assume that military calender is Earth time, but that is quite an assumption in of itself.

The straw that broke the camel's back for that theory (at least for me) was Dr. Halsey's journal. This journal definitely uses Reach time (since it cites the dates of the game), but definitely uses the book's time (operation Red Flag). This leads me to believe that the dates are the same.

  • 07.14.2011 9:34 PM PDT

If you lived to be 100,
I want to live to 100 minus 1 ,
so I never have to spend a day without you.

Atheist? Deist? Skeptic? Free thinker? If you're one of these, or a theist looking for a good debate, try the Secular Sevens!


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: jredbaron96
Here's a little explanation.

Reach and Earth don't share a same time schedule.

You know, I considered this actually. I actually did some mathematics to determine to exact time difference between Sol and Epsilon Eridani, assuming both systems go on the same 12 month year.

However, it becomes a little convoluted. The original novel cited military calender, whereas the game obviously uses Reach calender. You could assume that military calender is Earth time, but that is quite an assumption in of itself.

The straw that broke the camel's back for that theory (at least for me) was Dr. Halsey's journal. This journal definitely uses Reach time (since it cites the dates of the game), but definitely uses the book's time (operation Red Flag). This leads me to believe that the dates are the same.


I think that's error on the journal's development part.

Still, that leads me to believe that the Fall Of reach as portrayed in the games is shorter in our time.

  • 07.14.2011 9:40 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

I think that's error on the journal's development part.

Still, that leads me to believe that the Fall Of reach as portrayed in the games is shorter in our time.

Consider this:

Military calender could in fact be based on Reach time. After all, Reach is the military stronghold of the UNSC, it would only make sense.

Secondly, talking about time in Halo can hurt my head. Remember, after the Battle of Installation 04, there was a temporal anomaly which sent Master Chief back in time two weeks.

  • 07.14.2011 9:46 PM PDT

If you lived to be 100,
I want to live to 100 minus 1 ,
so I never have to spend a day without you.

Atheist? Deist? Skeptic? Free thinker? If you're one of these, or a theist looking for a good debate, try the Secular Sevens!


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
I think that's error on the journal's development part.

Still, that leads me to believe that the Fall Of reach as portrayed in the games is shorter in our time.

Consider this:

Military calender could in fact be based on Reach time. After all, Reach is the military stronghold of the UNSC, it would only make sense.


I understand what you're trying to state, but I must disagree.

Through out TFOR book, we never see mention of a time difference other than the standard Earth time sequence. Not to mention that the UNSC clearly prefers Terran functions rather than extraterrestrial. Current Data points to the fact that vessels in space run on the Earth's calendar.

  • 07.14.2011 9:51 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

I understand what you're trying to state, but I must disagree.

Through out TFOR book, we never see mention of a time difference other than the standard Earth time sequence. Not to mention that the UNSC clearly prefers Terran functions rather than extraterrestrial. Current Data points to the fact that vessels in space run on the Earth's calendar

You make a valid point, but the issue is that even if we managed to calculate this, there would be a canon disturbance, and a much larger one likely.

  • 07.15.2011 9:03 AM PDT

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