Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?
  • Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?
Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Also the best explanation on why the local fleet wasn't around is because the sheer power of the Carrier. It probably had several other ships with it to guard it, plus the Seraphs and Space Banshees patrolling around.
A small strike like the one in Operation UPPERCUT was the best strategy if you ask me.


i asked you where you got the number 5 from, and obviously it didn't have ships around it since it is the only one in orbit.

Regardless 6 corvettes and 1 SC is not enough to take out an entire fleet of 100 ships. not to mention normally ships have nukes or nuclear missiles which would add to how stupid this is if you actually know your stuff.

  • 07.13.2011 9:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Meh, judging from the Corvette's holographic globe of Reach, the Supercarrier wasn't even in the sights of the SMACs. Not only that, but it had Corvettes regularly coming back to it to refuel. Those Corvettes are tough judging by how badly the Ardent Prayer owned the Savannah.


That is just gameplay not to mention it wasn't suppose to destroy the ship.

  • 07.13.2011 9:11 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Sure, you could Zerg Rush the Supercarrier in space, but you'd lose tons of ships in the process. Add to the fact the Covenant know where Reach is and could arrive at any minute, it wouldn't be very smart to waste your ships. Instead, it's be best to bolster your defenses and brace for the inevitable.

Posted by: grey101
That is just gameplay not to mention it wasn't suppose to destroy the ship.


Maybe, but there was no good reason for the Savannah needing to be that close to the Corvette since it wasn't supposed to take out the ship. As such, it was destroyed.

[Edited on 07.13.2011 9:13 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2011 9:11 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Meh, judging from the Corvette's holographic globe of Reach, the Supercarrier wasn't even in the sights of the SMACs. Not only that, but it had Corvettes regularly coming back to it to refuel. Those Corvettes are tough judging by how badly the Ardent Prayer owned the Savannah.


Savannah wasn't trying to destroy the Prayer.

  • 07.13.2011 9:13 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Meh, judging from the Corvette's holographic globe of Reach, the Supercarrier wasn't even in the sights of the SMACs. Not only that, but it had Corvettes regularly coming back to it to refuel. Those Corvettes are tough judging by how badly the Ardent Prayer owned the Savannah.


Savannah wasn't trying to destroy the Prayer.

Never said it was, but after dropping the bomb off, it didn't need to be that close. They could've backed off and once the bomb was armed, came back.

[Edited on 07.13.2011 9:15 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2011 9:15 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Simple logic. The ship is bigger, so therefore it has bigger generators and has stronger shields.

You don't seem to understand that as the ship gets bigger so do the power demands for the shield. It has 25x more shield to provide power to just so that its shield can remain as effective as an Assault Carriers. Now you say that it can do that, and provide enough to resist a SMAC? Unyielding Heirophant needed 1000 reactor cores to power its shield alone. It was only half the size of this SC, so the SC would need roughly 4000 cores to get a shield as strong as UH due to 4x more surface area. Add to that other ship systems that need power as well. I seriously doubt that it has 4000 cores. And all that energy is supposedly being masked from detection...

Posted by: DeceptionCobra
Sure, you could Zerg Rush the Supercarrier in space, but you'd lose tons of ships in the process. Add to the fact the Covenant know where Reach is and could arrive at any minute, it wouldn't be very smart to waste your ships. Instead, it's be best to bolster your defenses and brace for the inevitable.

You are going to lose tons of ships anyway when you inevitably have to destroy it when the other ships do arrive. Except that now you have a SC and another fleet to contend with.

  • 07.13.2011 9:16 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Sure, you could Zerg Rush the Supercarrier in space, but you'd lose tons of ships in the process. Add to the fact the Covenant know where Reach is and could arrive at any minute, it wouldn't be very smart to waste your ships. Instead, it's be best to bolster your defenses and brace for the inevitable.

Posted by: grey101
That is just gameplay not to mention it wasn't suppose to destroy the ship.


Maybe, but there was no good reason for the Savannah needing to be that close to the Corvette since it wasn't supposed to take out the ship. As such, it was destroyed.


well judging from the comm chatter after that mission they were not expecting more covenant forces.

And cobra dot says the fleet was already wiped out trying to take out the SC. which is why i am raging

1 SC vs 100 UNSC ships and it won?

You would have nearly 1,000 longswords, thousands of archer missiles and atleast 100 mac rounds (barrels excluding)


So this is worse than any vs thread i have ever seen

  • 07.13.2011 9:17 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: anton1792
You are going to lose tons of ships anyway when you inevitably have to destroy it when the other ships do arrive. Except that now you have a SC and another fleet to contend with.


As much as it pains me to say it, Josh had a point. Instead of wasting many ships, using one to covertly attack the SC made more sense.

  • 07.13.2011 9:17 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Simple logic. The ship is bigger, so therefore it has bigger generators and has stronger shields.

You don't seem to understand that as the ship gets bigger so do the power demands for the shield. It has 25x more shield to provide power to just so that its shield can remain as effective as an Assault Carriers. Now you say that it can do that, and provide enough to resist a SMAC? Unyielding Heirophant needed 1000 reactor cores to power its shield alone. It was only half the size of this SC, so the SC would need roughly 4000 cores to get a shield as strong as UH due to 4x more surface area. Add to that other ship systems that need power as well. I seriously doubt that it has 4000 cores. And all that energy is supposedly being masked from detection...



*throws hands in the air like a plate just dropped with food*

This is just dumb

  • 07.13.2011 9:19 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Which part Grey? Looking at the cutscenes and I think this may be, once again, more hyperbole.

  • 07.13.2011 9:20 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Auntie Dot (COM): "Thankfully, help is imminent. Sixty percent of the UNSC fleet is en route to Reach from existing deployments. The first battle group should arrive within forty-eight hours."

Lieutenant Commander Catherine-B320: "That thing's crushing us, and we're waiting for backup? They'll be backing up a graveyard."

Commander Carter-A259: "All our nukes are either out-system or went down with the ships that carried them. You're preaching to the converted.


so 40 ships went down trying to take that ship out while the others are sitting on the other sit with their fingers up their asses.

Seriously the combined MAC fire would have been enough, not to mention nukes and missiles. And the support the remaining 60 ships should have been giving.

It makes no sense whatsoever not to go all out when you outnumber something with those odds and i am not saying you still shouldn't be smart about it.

Sending 40 ships and not backing them up is just poor tactics and the commanders should have read " the art of war". not to mention not backing up those 40 ships when they should have weakened the SC in some form at the least.

I don't know why you would sit and let your planet burn for two more days and then attack a ships (with over 100 ships) when you could have done that from the start.

We need to get the number for the UNSC fleet at that time

  • 07.13.2011 9:31 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: grey101
There is no excuse whatsoever for a single ship to wipe out 100, none in the covenants category.

1 salvo of MACs would be enough to take that thing, i am working out it the thousands of archer missiles would work also and this is at range.

There would be a few hundred if not atleast 1,000 fighters to take that thing down


the Super Carrier is the largest Covenant ship we've seen. It's shielding system must be extremely high. I doubt that a MAC round would go through the shields.
Also the Fall of Reach book has had several retcons before Reach's release. So get over these retcons


can you not read? and we have encountered ships of this size before, 100 ships all firing MACs would take the shields out that is a fact. I am positive that would kill it also seeing how if all the MAC am at 1 spot of the carrier the shields will go down easier.

That is how shielding works, if you focus on one spot it will go down hella faster than firing all over the place.


No, that is not how shields work. Energy shields continuously divert equal power to all areas (unless otherwise programmed). Shooting in one area will do no more damage that shooting all over the place when shields are up.

Also, the only other supercarrier encountered was destroyed by a supernova, the are extremely powerful.
What about the Supercarrier the Pillar of Autumn destroyed above Reach?

That was a Supercruiser, not a Supercarrier. A Supercruiser is 3.5km long while a Supercarrier is 27kn long.

Also consider how strong the Supercruiser's shields were and how much stronger the much larger Supercarrier's shields must be.

  • 07.13.2011 9:32 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: grey101
Auntie Dot (COM): "Thankfully, help is imminent. Sixty percent of the UNSC fleet is en route to Reach from existing deployments. The first battle group should arrive within forty-eight hours."

Lieutenant Commander Catherine-B320: "That thing's crushing us, and we're waiting for backup? They'll be backing up a graveyard."

Commander Carter-A259: "All our nukes are either out-system or went down with the ships that carried them. You're preaching to the converted.


so 40 ships went down trying to take that ship out while the others are sitting on the other sit with their fingers up their asses.

Seriously the combined MAC fire would have been enough, not to mention nukes and missiles. And the support the remaining 60 ships should have been giving.

It makes no sense whatsoever not to go all out when you outnumber something with those odds and i am not saying you still shouldn't be smart about it.

Sending 40 ships and not backing them up is just poor tactics and the commanders should have read " the art of war". not to mention not backing up those 40 ships when they should have weakened the SC in some form at the least.

I don't know why you would sit and let your planet burn for two more days and then attack a ships (with over 100 ships) when you could have done that from the start.

We need to get the number for the UNSC fleet at that time


For Dot, I chalked it up as the fleet coming to reinforce the planet, not necessarily replace tons of ships.

For Kat, judging by her words, that SC is damn powerful. Perhaps the UNSC did try to send battle groups, but it, possibly with some Corvettes, beat them. A pathetic show of force I know, but the SC is in geosynchronous orbit. It has a position and it's defending it. The UNSC has to come around the planet to target it, giving the SC precious seconds to target and fire. That's just how I see it.

For Carter, the whole ALL statement seemed like hyperbole to me, but I get the point.

We need answers, for sure.

PS, signed up for the project, awaiting my assignment.

  • 07.13.2011 9:36 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: mojeda101


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: grey101
There is no excuse whatsoever for a single ship to wipe out 100, none in the covenants category.

1 salvo of MACs would be enough to take that thing, i am working out it the thousands of archer missiles would work also and this is at range.

There would be a few hundred if not atleast 1,000 fighters to take that thing down[/quote]

the Super Carrier is the largest Covenant ship we've seen. It's shielding system must be extremely high. I doubt that a MAC round would go through the shields.
Also the Fall of Reach book has had several retcons before Reach's release. So get over these retcons


can you not read? and we have encountered ships of this size before, 100 ships all firing MACs would take the shields out that is a fact. I am positive that would kill it also seeing how if all the MAC am at 1 spot of the carrier the shields will go down easier.

That is how shielding works, if you focus on one spot it will go down hella faster than firing all over the place.


No, that is not how shields work. Energy shields continuously divert equal power to all areas (unless otherwise programmed). Shooting in one area will do no more damage that shooting all over the place when shields are up.

Also, the only other supercarrier encountered was destroyed by a supernova, the are extremely powerful.
What about the Supercarrier the Pillar of Autumn destroyed above Reach?

That was a Supercruiser, not a Supercarrier. A Supercruiser is 3.5km long while a Supercarrier is 27kn long.

Also consider how strong the Supercruiser's shields were and how much stronger the much larger Supercarrier's shields must be.


the shields were not uber powerful and the PoA alone took it out.

It used archer missiles to weaken the shields and cripple the ship then used a nuke within the shields to finish it off

  • 07.13.2011 9:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: grey101
Auntie Dot (COM): "Thankfully, help is imminent. Sixty percent of the UNSC fleet is en route to Reach from existing deployments. The first battle group should arrive within forty-eight hours."

Lieutenant Commander Catherine-B320: "That thing's crushing us, and we're waiting for backup? They'll be backing up a graveyard."

Commander Carter-A259: "All our nukes are either out-system or went down with the ships that carried them. You're preaching to the converted.


so 40 ships went down trying to take that ship out while the others are sitting on the other sit with their fingers up their asses.

Seriously the combined MAC fire would have been enough, not to mention nukes and missiles. And the support the remaining 60 ships should have been giving.

It makes no sense whatsoever not to go all out when you outnumber something with those odds and i am not saying you still shouldn't be smart about it.

Sending 40 ships and not backing them up is just poor tactics and the commanders should have read " the art of war". not to mention not backing up those 40 ships when they should have weakened the SC in some form at the least.

I don't know why you would sit and let your planet burn for two more days and then attack a ships (with over 100 ships) when you could have done that from the start.

We need to get the number for the UNSC fleet at that time


For Dot, I chalked it up as the fleet coming to reinforce the planet, not necessarily replace tons of ships.

For Kat, judging by her words, that SC is damn powerful. Perhaps the UNSC did try to send battle groups, but it, possibly with some Corvettes, beat them. A pathetic show of force I know, but the SC is in geosynchronous orbit. It has a position and it's defending it. The UNSC has to come around the planet to target it, giving the SC precious seconds to target and fire. That's just how I see it.

For Carter, the whole ALL statement seemed like hyperbole to me, but I get the point.

We need answers, for sure.

PS, signed up for the project, awaiting my assignment.


not good enough. they are going to "reinforce" the planet by sitting on the other side not attacking it?

actually being that close to the planet would mess with the plasma weapons (ignores corvette fire) this was brought up a few times in the books as with coles engagement and i believe around threshold. not to mention both ships would have to be within a range to fire as they could avoid each other (harder for the SC especially with this attack in mind).


I don't understand how when we are given direct statements people try to make them off as something else, yet when given hints or nods people take them has fact.

  • 07.13.2011 9:43 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: grey101
I don't understand how when we are given direct statements people try to make them off as something else, yet when given hints or nods people take them has fact.


Personally, everything that seems absolute usually turns out to be hyperbole, *stares at Lord Hood*.

  • 07.13.2011 9:46 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: grey101
I don't understand how when we are given direct statements people try to make them off as something else, yet when given hints or nods people take them has fact.


Personally, everything that seems absolute usually turns out to be hyperbole, *stares at Lord Hood*.


that was a clear exaggeration on both accounts and everybody knew it.

Dot is an AI (Dumb) and i highly doubt she was doing such.

  • 07.13.2011 9:48 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: mojeda101


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
can you not read? and we have encountered ships of this size before, 100 ships all firing MACs would take the shields out that is a fact. I am positive that would kill it also seeing how if all the MAC am at 1 spot of the carrier the shields will go down easier.

That is how shielding works, if you focus on one spot it will go down hella faster than firing all over the place.


No, that is not how shields work. Energy shields continuously divert equal power to all areas (unless otherwise programmed). Shooting in one area will do no more damage that shooting all over the place when shields are up.

Also, the only other supercarrier encountered was destroyed by a supernova, the are extremely powerful.
What about the Supercarrier the Pillar of Autumn destroyed above Reach?

That was a Supercruiser, not a Supercarrier. A Supercruiser is 3.5km long while a Supercarrier is 27kn long.

Also consider how strong the Supercruiser's shields were and how much stronger the much larger Supercarrier's shields must be.


the shields were not uber powerful and the PoA alone took it out.

It used archer missiles to weaken the shields and cripple the ship then used a nuke within the shields to finish it off

First, I would like to point out that it took the full firepower of the Pillar of Autumn (the most powerful ship in the fleet once upgraded) to merely take down its shields.

Now let's do some math. The supercarrier is 8 time longer than the supercruiser, and let's assume that width and high follow suit. That makes the supercarrier 512 times larger than the supercruiser. To be fair, size may not be completely proportional to shield strength, so I will underestimate and say that the supercarrier's shields are 100 times stronger than the supercruiser's.

That means that it would take 100 ships like the Pillar of Autumn to take down its shields, but there were only 40, and they were mostly frigates. The UNSC didn't have a chance against it.

  • 07.13.2011 9:50 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: the n00b pwner


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
can you not read? and we have encountered ships of this size before, 100 ships all firing MACs would take the shields out that is a fact. I am positive that would kill it also seeing how if all the MAC am at 1 spot of the carrier the shields will go down easier.

That is how shielding works, if you focus on one spot it will go down hella faster than firing all over the place.[/quote]

No, that is not how shields work. Energy shields continuously divert equal power to all areas (unless otherwise programmed). Shooting in one area will do no more damage that shooting all over the place when shields are up.

Also, the only other supercarrier encountered was destroyed by a supernova, the are extremely powerful.
What about the Supercarrier the Pillar of Autumn destroyed above Reach?

That was a Supercruiser, not a Supercarrier. A Supercruiser is 3.5km long while a Supercarrier is 27kn long.

Also consider how strong the Supercruiser's shields were and how much stronger the much larger Supercarrier's shields must be.


the shields were not uber powerful and the PoA alone took it out.

It used archer missiles to weaken the shields and cripple the ship then used a nuke within the shields to finish it off

First, I would like to point out that it took the full firepower of the Pillar of Autumn (the most powerful ship in the fleet once upgraded) to merely take down its shields.

Now let's do some math. The supercarrier is 8 time longer than the supercruiser, and let's assume that width and high follow suit. That makes the supercarrier 512 times larger than the supercruiser. To be fair, size may not be completely proportional to shield strength, so I will underestimate and say that the supercarrier's shields are 100 times stronger than the supercruiser's.

That means that it would take 100 ships like the Pillar of Autumn to take down its shields, but there were only 40, and they were mostly frigates. The UNSC didn't have a chance against it.


really? give me excerpts and page numbers because the fight was pretty fast and the PoA still stuck around for the battle for a bit. I call bull honkey.


As anton and i have said earlier the shield strenght is going to come from the surface area the shields have to cover not "because it is bigger it is better", that being said the shields would have to fully cover all 16 miles of the ship THEN you start getting into how strong they are. and i think it was destroyed just like any other thing bungie can't explain.

and don't make random assumptions when trying to do something, the reason anton and i hold are ground because we can actually do the most accurate mathematics behind this and bring in references from the book. not just adding random things and throwing numbers around. so i retort with this


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Simple logic. The ship is bigger, so therefore it has bigger generators and has stronger shields.

You don't seem to understand that as the ship gets bigger so do the power demands for the shield. It has 25x more shield to provide power to just so that its shield can remain as effective as an Assault Carriers. Now you say that it can do that, and provide enough to resist a SMAC? Unyielding Heirophant needed 1000 reactor cores to power its shield alone. It was only half the size of this SC, so the SC would need roughly 4000 cores to get a shield as strong as UH due to 4x more surface area. Add to that other ship systems that need power as well. I seriously doubt that it has 4000 cores. And all that energy is supposedly being masked from detection...

  • 07.13.2011 9:59 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: grey101
the shields were not uber powerful and the PoA alone took it out.

It used archer missiles to weaken the shields and cripple the ship then used a nuke within the shields to finish it off


It fired 3 MAC shots and 500 Archer Missiles hit the shield-less hull of the ship, doing MINIMAL damage to it, then they fired another 3 MAC shots and the same quantity of missiles, before sending a Nuke and the only reason it worked was because they activated it after the shields were back up.

If it hadn't been inside it's shields, the Supercruiser would have destroyed the Autumn.

  • 07.13.2011 10:00 PM PDT


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: grey101
There is no excuse whatsoever for a single ship to wipe out 100, none in the covenants category.

1 salvo of MACs would be enough to take that thing, i am working out it the thousands of archer missiles would work also and this is at range.

There would be a few hundred if not atleast 1,000 fighters to take that thing down


the Super Carrier is the largest Covenant ship we've seen. It's shielding system must be extremely high. I doubt that a MAC round would go through the shields.
Also the Fall of Reach book has had several retcons before Reach's release. So get over these retcons


the mass driver took it out in 2 hits

  • 07.13.2011 10:00 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: graver0679667

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: grey101
There is no excuse whatsoever for a single ship to wipe out 100, none in the covenants category.

1 salvo of MACs would be enough to take that thing, i am working out it the thousands of archer missiles would work also and this is at range.

There would be a few hundred if not atleast 1,000 fighters to take that thing down


the Super Carrier is the largest Covenant ship we've seen. It's shielding system must be extremely high. I doubt that a MAC round would go through the shields.
Also the Fall of Reach book has had several retcons before Reach's release. So get over these retcons


the mass driver took it out in 2 hits


Confusing a Battle Cruiser with a Super Carrier? Wow, just wow.

[Edited on 07.13.2011 10:05 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2011 10:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: grey101
the shields were not uber powerful and the PoA alone took it out.

It used archer missiles to weaken the shields and cripple the ship then used a nuke within the shields to finish it off


It fired 3 MAC shots and 500 Archer Missiles hit the shield-less hull of the ship, doing MINIMAL damage to it, then they fired another 3 MAC shots and the same quantity of missiles, before sending a Nuke and the only reason it worked was because they activated it after the shields were back up.

If it hadn't been inside it's shields, the Supercruiser would have destroyed the Autumn.


your still showing that 1 ships would be able to get the job done.

now have 100 ships of various classes that would all eventually try doing the same thing. Regardless of the fact that the UNSC would be able to divide the fleet and corner the SC 25 ships at a time, in which 5 could be the bait with 10 attacking.


And this is leaving the longswords out which would be able to do a good deal of damage to the ship (halo 2 cinimatic)

  • 07.13.2011 10:05 PM PDT