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  • Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?
Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Listen. If the UNSC had sent in all 99 (at least one destroyed on Tip of the Spear) they would have suffered tremendous losses. For all we know the Super Carrier could have had Corvettes inside itself. The local fleet would have lost about 50% or so or it's ships. This would make it extremely vulnerable for the rest of the Covenant fleets.
I bet ONI knew that all the Covenant knew Reach's location by then so they anticipated a larger attack.
So, like I said, a low level covert strike would be more effective.
The remaining fleet would probably fight off the fleet that arrived soon after Solace's destruction.

  • 07.13.2011 10:18 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: the n00b pwner


Posted by: grey101
No, that is not how shields work. Energy shields continuously divert equal power to all areas (unless otherwise programmed). Shooting in one area will do no more damage that shooting all over the place when shields are up.

Also, the only other supercarrier encountered was destroyed by a supernova, the are extremely powerful.[/quote]What about the Supercarrier the Pillar of Autumn destroyed above Reach?

That was a Supercruiser, not a Supercarrier. A Supercruiser is 3.5km long while a Supercarrier is 27kn long.

Also consider how strong the Supercruiser's shields were and how much stronger the much larger Supercarrier's shields must be.


the shields were not uber powerful and the PoA alone took it out.

It used archer missiles to weaken the shields and cripple the ship then used a nuke within the shields to finish it off

First, I would like to point out that it took the full firepower of the Pillar of Autumn (the most powerful ship in the fleet once upgraded) to merely take down its shields.

Now let's do some math. The supercarrier is 8 time longer than the supercruiser, and let's assume that width and high follow suit. That makes the supercarrier 512 times larger than the supercruiser. To be fair, size may not be completely proportional to shield strength, so I will underestimate and say that the supercarrier's shields are 100 times stronger than the supercruiser's.

That means that it would take 100 ships like the Pillar of Autumn to take down its shields, but there were only 40, and they were mostly frigates. The UNSC didn't have a chance against it.


really? give me excerpts and page numbers because the fight was pretty fast and the PoA still stuck around for the battle for a bit. I call bull honkey.


As anton and i have said earlier the shield strenght is going to come from the surface area the shields have to cover not "because it is bigger it is better", that being said the shields would have to fully cover all 16 miles of the ship THEN you start getting into how strong they are. and i think it was destroyed just like any other thing bungie can't explain.

and don't make random assumptions when trying to do something, the reason anton and i hold are ground because we can actually do the most accurate mathematics behind this and bring in references from the book. not just adding random things and throwing numbers around. so i retort with this

Page 321 of The Fall of Reach is where the fight starts. It took all 3 of the Pillar of Autumn's 3 shot MAC and 500 archer missiles (more than the total capacity of archer missiles before it was upgraded) to down its shields.

As I said before, size isn't a directly proportional to shield strength, but a cruiser has stronger shields than a destroyer, a supercruiser has stronger shields than a cruiser, etc. It can be assumed that a supercarrier would have stronger shields than a supercruiser. Also surface are is irrelevant to energy shields they simply redirect energy to where it is needed so that the entire ship gets the full strength of the shields.

What do you think seems like an appropriate number for how much stronger the supercarrier is?

  • 07.13.2011 10:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Listen. If the UNSC had sent in all 99 (at least one destroyed on Tip of the Spear) they would have suffered tremendous losses. For all we know the Super Carrier could have had Corvettes inside itself. The local fleet would have lost about 50% or so or it's ships. This would make it extremely vulnerable for the rest of the Covenant fleets.
I bet ONI knew that all the Covenant knew Reach's location by then so they anticipated a larger attack.
So, like I said, a low level covert strike would be more effective.
The remaining fleet would probably fight off the fleet that arrived soon after Solace's destruction.




In War,
With forces ten
To the foes one,
Surround him;

with five
Attack him;
With two,
split in half;
If equally matched,
Fight it out;
If fewer in number,
Lie low
If weaker,
Escape



Directly from "the art of war" The UNSC had the numerical advantage and i will even say the element of surprise since the SC would never know when it would be attacked.

It makes no sense that 100 ships would not gang up on a single ship none. 100 ships with roughly 1,000 fighters, nukes,etc it is nonesense that they did not engage the SC.

Hell in all honesty the bastards could have played it even smarter by having some forces distract it and just have the fighters and the rest of the forces send nukes towards the engines.

I can not tell you the numerous amounts of ways the UNSC could have taken that thing out.

  • 07.13.2011 10:26 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Guys, you are confusing the Super CRUISER in The Fall of Reach with the Long Night of Solace, they are completely different, the Super Cruiser was a regular sized ship, and the reason the Covenant don't use Supercarriers is because they probably don't have that many of them ranging in that size because of it's astronomical high costs.



Agreed.
Size of Assault Cruiser compared to other spacecraft
Now the comparison between Assault Cruiser to the Super Carrier.
Something as big as the Super Carrier must have an extremely powerful shielding system. I doubt it has the same shield strength as a Cruiser. It's shielding must be at least 5 times that of a Cruiser.


In the last mission when Jorge push out Noble Six out of the Covenant corvete you can clearly see that's not a Super carrier, the covenant corvete it's nearly the same size of a UNSC frigate and the corvete it's a quarter of the Covenant carrier. IF that where a Super carrier, the corvete would have been a dot.

  • 07.13.2011 10:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: grey101


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: the n00b pwner


Posted by: grey101
No, that is not how shields work. Energy shields continuously divert equal power to all areas (unless otherwise programmed). Shooting in one area will do no more damage that shooting all over the place when shields are up.

Also, the only other supercarrier encountered was destroyed by a supernova, the are extremely powerful.[/quote]What about the Supercarrier the Pillar of Autumn destroyed above Reach?[/quote]
That was a Supercruiser, not a Supercarrier. A Supercruiser is 3.5km long while a Supercarrier is 27kn long.

Also consider how strong the Supercruiser's shields were and how much stronger the much larger Supercarrier's shields must be.


the shields were not uber powerful and the PoA alone took it out.

It used archer missiles to weaken the shields and cripple the ship then used a nuke within the shields to finish it off

First, I would like to point out that it took the full firepower of the Pillar of Autumn (the most powerful ship in the fleet once upgraded) to merely take down its shields.

Now let's do some math. The supercarrier is 8 time longer than the supercruiser, and let's assume that width and high follow suit. That makes the supercarrier 512 times larger than the supercruiser. To be fair, size may not be completely proportional to shield strength, so I will underestimate and say that the supercarrier's shields are 100 times stronger than the supercruiser's.

That means that it would take 100 ships like the Pillar of Autumn to take down its shields, but there were only 40, and they were mostly frigates. The UNSC didn't have a chance against it.


really? give me excerpts and page numbers because the fight was pretty fast and the PoA still stuck around for the battle for a bit. I call bull honkey.


As anton and i have said earlier the shield strenght is going to come from the surface area the shields have to cover not "because it is bigger it is better", that being said the shields would have to fully cover all 16 miles of the ship THEN you start getting into how strong they are. and i think it was destroyed just like any other thing bungie can't explain.

and don't make random assumptions when trying to do something, the reason anton and i hold are ground because we can actually do the most accurate mathematics behind this and bring in references from the book. not just adding random things and throwing numbers around. so i retort with this



Also surface are is irrelevant to energy shields

What do you think seems like an appropriate number for how much stronger the supercarrier is?


um did you really just say that? covenant shielding covers the entire ship this isn't some BS universe where there is only half shielding.

and i don't know the number because i haven't done the math yet, the UNSC side alone is making me rage, i don't know how pissed i will be once i find errors on the covenant side.

FYI i am pro covenant

  • 07.13.2011 10:30 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

Oh yeah, like nukes are now capable of inflicting serious damage upon high-tonnage Covenant vessels, let alone a gorram flagship.

It would take a load of ship MACs to bring down an Assault Carrier's shield, let alone a Supercarrier.

Where did all this "Ship is bigger, so it has weaker shields" come from?

  • 07.13.2011 10:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Oh yeah, like nukes are now capable of inflicting serious damage upon high-tonnage Covenant vessels, let alone a gorram flagship.

It would take a load of ship MACs to bring down an Assault Carrier's shield, let alone a Supercarrier.

Where did all this "Ship is bigger, so it has weaker shields" come from?
oh yea dozens of ships with nuclear armament isn't going to have any impact whatsoever.

I just Ctrl f " weaker shields" and i didn't get anything. I do see people pointing out that you shouldn't make random assumptions using half ass math and that the shielding to cover the ship alone would be massive.

[Edited on 07.13.2011 10:42 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2011 10:36 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: MasterSin

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Guys, you are confusing the Super CRUISER in The Fall of Reach with the Long Night of Solace, they are completely different, the Super Cruiser was a regular sized ship, and the reason the Covenant don't use Supercarriers is because they probably don't have that many of them ranging in that size because of it's astronomical high costs.



Agreed.
Size of Assault Cruiser compared to other spacecraft
Now the comparison between Assault Cruiser to the Super Carrier.
Something as big as the Super Carrier must have an extremely powerful shielding system. I doubt it has the same shield strength as a Cruiser. It's shielding must be at least 5 times that of a Cruiser.


In the last mission when Jorge push out Noble Six out of the Covenant corvete you can clearly see that's not a Super carrier, the covenant corvete it's nearly the same size of a UNSC frigate and the corvete it's a quarter of the Covenant carrier. IF that where a Super carrier, the corvete would have been a dot.


The Supercarrier is almost 100 times the size of the Corvette 300 meters / 27 kilometers. When Six is dropping, you can see that the Super Carrier is looming over the Corvette like a whale and a fish, this is further proven when the camera goes to the satellite, in that scene the Corvette cannot even be seen, only the energy of the bomb already consuming the ship and even that is a small dot.

  • 07.13.2011 10:37 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
um did you really just say that? covenant shielding covers the entire ship this isn't some BS universe where there is only half shielding.

and i don't know the number because i haven't done the math yet, the UNSC side alone is making me rage, i don't know how pissed i will be once i find errors on the covenant side.

FYI i am pro covenant

I never said that shields did not cover the entire ship.

Think to halo gameplay for reference. Using arbitrary numbers lets say that an elite's shield can withstand 10,00 J of force. That is over the entire elite, and will withstand the same 10,000J no matter where it gets shot. Repeatedly shooting the same spot or firing multiple shots at once will not do any more damage than shots that hit different areas at different times. Even if there was more surface area (let's say there was a really big elite), it would still take the same number of shots to take down the elite's shield because the 10,000J remains the same.

The same applies to ships and anything shielded, do you understand?

  • 07.13.2011 10:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I am pretty sure that in FoR, FS or some other media that the shields were shown to go down faster when concentrated on a single location rather than the entire area.

o0o and by looking at that picture i can tell that the ship uses MDT which means anywhere from 40-60 percent of the ship is made up of redundant systems that serve no purpose whatsoever and probably suck alot of power.

  • 07.13.2011 10:48 PM PDT

Uhm, Covenant supercarriers are 17 miles long..

  • 07.13.2011 10:49 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: MasterSin

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Guys, you are confusing the Super CRUISER in The Fall of Reach with the Long Night of Solace, they are completely different, the Super Cruiser was a regular sized ship, and the reason the Covenant don't use Supercarriers is because they probably don't have that many of them ranging in that size because of it's astronomical high costs.



Agreed.
Size of Assault Cruiser compared to other spacecraft
Now the comparison between Assault Cruiser to the Super Carrier.
Something as big as the Super Carrier must have an extremely powerful shielding system. I doubt it has the same shield strength as a Cruiser. It's shielding must be at least 5 times that of a Cruiser.


In the last mission when Jorge push out Noble Six out of the Covenant corvete you can clearly see that's not a Super carrier, the covenant corvete it's nearly the same size of a UNSC frigate and the corvete it's a quarter of the Covenant carrier. IF that where a Super carrier, the corvete would have been a dot.


The Supercarrier is almost 100 times the size of the Corvette 300 meters / 27 kilometers. When Six is dropping, you can see that the Super Carrier is looming over the Corvette like a whale and a fish, this is further proven when the camera goes to the satellite, in that scene the Corvette cannot even be seen, only the energy of the bomb already consuming the ship and even that is a small dot.


Oh yeah, you're right, my mistake.

  • 07.13.2011 10:50 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.

  • 07.13.2011 10:50 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
I am pretty sure that in FoR, FS or some other media that the shields were shown to go down faster when concentrated on a single location rather than the entire area.

o0o and by looking at that picture i can tell that the ship uses MDT which means anywhere from 40-60 percent of the ship is made up of redundant systems that serve no purpose whatsoever and probably suck alot of power.


I'm pretty that I have not heard that, so please provide page numbers for proof. Also what do you mean MDT?

  • 07.13.2011 10:51 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.


Read my post, you fail to understand how energy shields work.

  • 07.13.2011 10:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.


we need more people like you in this place.

Your on Archive right?

um noob you are the one that is wrong; anton, 66, and i have all stated the exact same thing.

I believe halsey went over covenant shielding in TFoR or first strike

[Edited on 07.13.2011 10:54 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2011 10:52 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.


Read my post, you fail to understand how energy shields work.


Again, yes. And, you're wrong on shielding. Anton, Grey and I believe it was in tFoR or First strike, Dr. Halsey described about nature of covenant shielding. Read that novels again or read Anton's posts.

grey101

we need more people like you in this place.

Your on Archive right?


Yes, I am on archive but I forgot website name for it, I haven't checked it for while. I did register as member there, however. Same username as here. I would appreciated if you can post a link, so I can save it. Thanks.

[Edited on 07.13.2011 10:58 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2011 10:57 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.


we need more people like you in this place.

Your on Archive right?

um noob you are the one that is wrong; anton, 66, and i have all stated the exact same thing.

I believe halsey went over covenant shielding in TFoR or first strike

Simply saying "you are wrong" does not make me wrong. Please try to use logic when arguing instead of simply saying that someone is wrong when you don't agree with them. I have provided book numbers and game facts, you have provided nothing but guesses.

  • 07.13.2011 11:00 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.


Cause y'know, the fleet was entirely made of Assault Carriers and CSS Battlecruisers, right? They had Corvettes (which have no shielding), Destroyers and other types of ships, but mostly Corvettes and Destroyers seeing how most of the fleets only show a handful of capital ships (Regret's fleet just had 2 Assault Carriers, same with Truth's after the Hierophant was destroyed).

You make it sound like those HORNET mines destroyed Assault Carriers like they were made out of cardboard.

  • 07.13.2011 11:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.


we need more people like you in this place.

Your on Archive right?

um noob you are the one that is wrong; anton, 66, and i have all stated the exact same thing.

I believe halsey went over covenant shielding in TFoR or first strike

Simply saying "you are wrong" does not make me wrong. Please try to use logic when arguing instead of simply saying that someone is wrong when you don't agree with them. I have provided book numbers and game facts, you have provided nothing but guesses.


Read Anton and Grey's posts again. They can explain better than I.

  • 07.13.2011 11:06 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.


we need more people like you in this place.

Your on Archive right?

um noob you are the one that is wrong; anton, 66, and i have all stated the exact same thing.

I believe halsey went over covenant shielding in TFoR or first strike

Simply saying "you are wrong" does not make me wrong. Please try to use logic when arguing instead of simply saying that someone is wrong when you don't agree with them. I have provided book numbers and game facts, you have provided nothing but guesses.


Read Anton and Grey's posts again. They can explain better than I.


I have read them and explained, using established facts, that they are wrong.

  • 07.13.2011 11:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.


we need more people like you in this place.

Your on Archive right?

um noob you are the one that is wrong; anton, 66, and i have all stated the exact same thing.

I believe halsey went over covenant shielding in TFoR or first strike

Simply saying "you are wrong" does not make me wrong. Please try to use logic when arguing instead of simply saying that someone is wrong when you don't agree with them. I have provided book numbers and game facts, you have provided nothing but guesses.


I have providing nothing but guesses despite me say i will not pull out "appropriate numbers" because it is 2 in the morning and i won't do the math properly.

you have provided numbers and game facts yet i don't see any page numbers explaining covenant shield tech nor do i see any game examples of starship shielding.

I have provided "nothing but guesses" when i clearly went back and checked the armament for the UNSC ships and realized no matter the combination 100 ships would be more than enough for that one single ships.

You say i haven't used logic yet that is all i have and ever use during anything on this forum. you just say " it is bigger therefore stronger" when three people now have told you that you have to consider the power needed to even fully cover the ship before you think about how strong it is.

I even told you the books this was most likely covered in and normally people would then quickly skim through the books trying to find the information; since it being 2 am i am not going to go through the book and hand feed you not to mention the fact i remember 10 year knowledge off the top of my head is something amazing in itself.


So how about you review your logic and realize that when 3 people say the same thing something must be up. I gave you the books so skim through the covenant ship encounters until something pops up. if you want to do math like anton and i then do it correctly and accurately as possible and don't base it off random figures and multipliers

  • 07.13.2011 11:16 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
I have providing nothing but guesses despite me say i will not pull out "appropriate numbers" because it is 2 in the morning and i won't do the math properly.

you have provided numbers and game facts yet i don't see any page numbers explaining covenant shield tech nor do i see any game examples of starship shielding.

For the game facts, simply play a game a halo, forge or customs games will make the testing easier.

I have provided "nothing but guesses" when i clearly went back and checked the armament for the UNSC ships and realized no matter the combination 100 ships would be more than enough for that one single ships.

You do not know the strength of its shields, therefore you can't know the answer to this.

You say i haven't used logic yet that is all i have and ever use during anything on this forum. you just say " it is bigger therefore stronger" when three people now have told you that you have to consider the power needed to even fully cover the ship before you think about how strong it is.

As I have REPEATEDLY stated, energy shields are not affected by surface area, yet you continue to bring it up.

I even told you the books this was most likely covered in and normally people would then quickly skim through the books trying to find the information; since it being 2 am i am not going to go through the book and hand feed you not to mention the fact i remember 10 year knowledge off the top of my head is something amazing in itself.

You made the claim, so you must find the proof, it is 2 am here too and I am not searching through 2 books for something that likely isn't even there.

So how about you review your logic and realize that when 3 people say the same thing something must be up. I gave you the books so skim through the covenant ship encounters until something pops up. if you want to do math like anton and i then do it correctly and accurately as possible and don't base it off random figures and multipliers

Random figures? The figures that I used are well known and can easily be searched on halopedia, I even made sure to underestimate it due to an unknown proportion. No one knows the exact shield strength of a supercarrier, but unless the covenant extremely bad designers, it must me much stronger than a supercruiser.

  • 07.13.2011 11:32 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: the n00b pwner

Posted by: grey101
I have providing nothing but guesses despite me say i will not pull out "appropriate numbers" because it is 2 in the morning and i won't do the math properly.

you have provided numbers and game facts yet i don't see any page numbers explaining covenant shield tech nor do i see any game examples of starship shielding.

For the game facts, simply play a game a halo, forge or customs games will make the testing easier.

I have provided "nothing but guesses" when i clearly went back and checked the armament for the UNSC ships and realized no matter the combination 100 ships would be more than enough for that one single ships.

You do not know the strength of its shields, therefore you can't know the answer to this.

You say i haven't used logic yet that is all i have and ever use during anything on this forum. you just say " it is bigger therefore stronger" when three people now have told you that you have to consider the power needed to even fully cover the ship before you think about how strong it is.

As I have REPEATEDLY stated, energy shields are not affected by surface area, yet you continue to bring it up.

I even told you the books this was most likely covered in and normally people would then quickly skim through the books trying to find the information; since it being 2 am i am not going to go through the book and hand feed you not to mention the fact i remember 10 year knowledge off the top of my head is something amazing in itself.

You made the claim, so you must find the proof, it is 2 am here too and I am not searching through 2 books for something that likely isn't even there.

So how about you review your logic and realize that when 3 people say the same thing something must be up. I gave you the books so skim through the covenant ship encounters until something pops up. if you want to do math like anton and i then do it correctly and accurately as possible and don't base it off random figures and multipliers

Random figures? The figures that I used are well known and can easily be searched on halopedia, I even made sure to underestimate it due to an unknown proportion. No one knows the exact shield strength of a supercarrier, but unless the covenant extremely bad designers, it must me much stronger than a supercruiser.


The games have nothing on covenant ship shielding, the only game that does is halo wars. please don't tell me you are using model shields and believe the are the same as the ship shields. *Facedesk*


the fact of the matter is the shields are not going to be strong enough to withstand an entire fleet of 100 ships giving it everything it had. if it could, why didn't the damn thing just completely wipe out reach and everything else? The shields are not that strong, because we would have seen more ships like it if they were indestructible as you are blindly believing. where were they at harvest,XI bootis, Earth, the Ark, during the separatist fights.


If the ships are so damn strong then there should be a few around since they are so badass. and why didn't regret lead such a ship or atleast have one in his possession? he is a prophet.


Because they are effected by the surface area because it has to cove the entire surface of the ship not portions of it that you think for some reason.

Really? it is pathetic that people can't look stuff up for themselves anymore. I want to see proof that the shields are not effected by surface area also.

Now let's do some math. The supercarrier is 8 time longer than the supercruiser, and let's assume that width and high follow suit. That makes the supercarrier 512 times larger than the supercruiser. To be fair, size may not be completely proportional to shield strength, so I will underestimate and say that the supercarrier's shields are 100 times stronger than the supercruiser's.

That means that it would take 100 ships like the Pillar of Autumn to take down its shields, but there were only 40, and they were mostly frigates. The UNSC didn't have a chance against it.


That is all going off an assumption that you made off the top of you head and didn't even give a margin for error.

You have also been assuming that since it is so huge that the shields have to be uber strong just because it is so huge, when other like me that understand how shielding and the mechanics behind have said no.

You have still not made a reply on anton's post in which i will re-post and have him come back in this thread tomorrow with the math he has been doing.

Posted by: anton1792
The UNSC got downplayed so badly in Reach that it is not even funny.

As for the Supercarrier, the Unyielding Heirophant needed to be almost filled with reactor complexes to power its shield. The SC is a ship not a space station. It needs to provide roughly 25x more power to its shield in order for its shield to be the same strength as an Assault Carrier's, never mind anything that would be able to resist a SMAC round.

I mean if it is really that powerful then why don't the Covenant use them all the time to spearhead assaults? Why do the Covenant even lose when there are at least one hundred of them around High Charity? SC's size and capabilities don't make sense.

  • 07.13.2011 11:58 PM PDT