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  • Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?
Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?
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Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.
If the super carrier had pulse lasers or whatever the hell they're called (I'm no Halo fanboy, and the amount of knowledge on Halo in this thread both amuses and terrifies me), but I'm pretty sure that the supercarriers were equipped with these lasers and that they have a range of over 100,000 km. Now at the speed of light it could destroy dozens of UNSC ships before they even got in range of the carrier

  • 07.14.2011 12:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: USDA Beefmaster

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.
If the super carrier had pulse lasers or whatever the hell they're called (I'm no Halo fanboy, and the amount of knowledge on Halo in this thread both amuses and terrifies me), but I'm pretty sure that the supercarriers were equipped with these lasers and that they have a range of over 100,000 km. Now at the speed of light it could destroy dozens of UNSC ships before they even got in range of the carrier


they don't work like that nor was there range ever stated. they are light weapons normally used against fighters but can do decent damage to UNSC ships.

  • 07.14.2011 12:21 AM PDT

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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: USDA Beefmaster

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.
If the super carrier had pulse lasers or whatever the hell they're called (I'm no Halo fanboy, and the amount of knowledge on Halo in this thread both amuses and terrifies me), but I'm pretty sure that the supercarriers were equipped with these lasers and that they have a range of over 100,000 km. Now at the speed of light it could destroy dozens of UNSC ships before they even got in range of the carrier


they don't work like that nor was there range ever stated. they are light weapons normally used against fighters but can do decent damage to UNSC ships.


That was the range for the Supercruiser's energy projector.

  • 07.14.2011 12:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: USDA Beefmaster

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.
If the super carrier had pulse lasers or whatever the hell they're called (I'm no Halo fanboy, and the amount of knowledge on Halo in this thread both amuses and terrifies me), but I'm pretty sure that the supercarriers were equipped with these lasers and that they have a range of over 100,000 km. Now at the speed of light it could destroy dozens of UNSC ships before they even got in range of the carrier


Actually, pulse lasers aren't that powerful but still can dish out least decent damage as shown in Fall of Reach, UNSC Frigate Commonwealth suffered numerous damage from pulse lasers, it has shown to melt through 15cm of Titanium-A Battleplate in few seconds and it was in close range. Pulse lasers are designed to combat against fighters and incoming missiles.

And that range of 100,000km, that's energetic particle beam projector from Super Cruiser.

[Edited on 07.14.2011 12:36 AM PDT]

  • 07.14.2011 12:36 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
The games have nothing on covenant ship shielding, the only game that does is halo wars. please don't tell me you are using model shields and believe the are the same as the ship shields. *Facedesk*

Infantry shields and ship shields work on the same technology, only on a much larger scale. Every time a ship is hit in the books the shield is described as flaring the fading, the flaring is the shield being redistributed (preventing multiple attack on the same spot from doing more damage) and the fading is it returning to normal.

the fact of the matter is the shields are not going to be strong enough to withstand an entire fleet of 100 ships giving it everything it had. if it could, why didn't the damn thing just completely wipe out reach and everything else? The shields are not that strong, because we would have seen more ships like it if they were indestructible as you are blindly believing. where were they at harvest,XI bootis, Earth, the Ark, during the separatist fights.

It didn't destroy everything because it had to find the artifacts first. And they didn't come for the same reason that the supercruisers didn't come to every battle, they must be very expensive and very rare.

If the ships are so damn strong then there should be a few around since they are so badass. and why didn't regret lead such a ship or atleast have one in his possession? he is a prophet.

I don't know, why wasn't Thel 'Vadamee's flagship the supercruiser when he attacked Reach. Covenant flagships don't really make sense.

Because they are effected by the surface area because it has to cove the entire surface of the ship not portions of it that you think for some reason.

Where on earth are you getting portions from? Ship shields work the same way infantry shields do, they distribute the energy so that everywhere that gets hit gets the full strength of the shield.

Really? it is pathetic that people can't look stuff up for themselves anymore. I want to see proof that the shields are not effected by surface area also.

That is just common sense. If you have 2 energy shield, one that is a square meter and one that is ten square meters, then hit them both with the same amount of force, what happens?
If the energy was static, then the section you hit would be weaker than the rest, but that isn't the case. They both redistribute the energy and lose the same amount of strength, even the part that you didn't hit is weaker now. Understand?

Now let's do some math. The supercarrier is 8 time longer than the supercruiser, and let's assume that width and high follow suit. That makes the supercarrier 512 times larger than the supercruiser. To be fair, size may not be completely proportional to shield strength, so I will underestimate and say that the supercarrier's shields are 100 times stronger than the supercruiser's.

That means that it would take 100 ships like the Pillar of Autumn to take down its shields, but there were only 40, and they were mostly frigates. The UNSC didn't have a chance against it.


That is all going off an assumption that you made off the top of you head and didn't even give a margin for error.

I am well aware that it is a crude guess and I know that there is a margin for error.

You have also been assuming that since it is so huge that the shields have to be uber strong just because it is so huge, when other like me that understand how shielding and the mechanics behind have said no.

They don't have to be uber strong, theoretically it could have no shields at all, but I think that the covenant are intelligent enough to put in shield generators that are at least a few times stronger than the ones in ships a fraction of its size.

You have still not made a reply on anton's post in which i will re-post and have him come back in this thread tomorrow with the math he has been doing.

Posted by: anton1792
The UNSC got downplayed so badly in Reach that it is not even funny.

As for the Supercarrier, the Unyielding Heirophant needed to be almost filled with reactor complexes to power its shield. The SC is a ship not a space station. It needs to provide roughly 25x more power to its shield in order for its shield to be the same strength as an Assault Carrier's, never mind anything that would be able to resist a SMAC round.

I mean if it is really that powerful then why don't the Covenant use them all the time to spearhead assaults? Why do the Covenant even lose when there are at least one hundred of them around High Charity? SC's size and capabilities don't make sense.

1.Because shields aren't affected by surface area, it needs on the same amount of power to get the same shield strength.
2.One hundred around high charity? Those are assault carriers, not supercarriers. Again, my guess is that the supercarriers are to rare and expensive to risk at just any battle.

  • 07.14.2011 12:51 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
There is no excuse whatsoever for a single ship to wipe out 100, none in the covenants category.

1 salvo of MACs would be enough to take that thing, i am working out it the thousands of archer missiles would work also and this is at range.

There would be a few hundred if not atleast 1,000 fighters to take that thing down
Just want to point out, just a normal covenant cruiser (not a CCS battlecruiser, a normal cruiser, which is only about a third the size of a CCS.) took two direct MAC cannons and three nukes to take down.

  • 07.14.2011 1:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: grey101
There is no excuse whatsoever for a single ship to wipe out 100, none in the covenants category.

1 salvo of MACs would be enough to take that thing, i am working out it the thousands of archer missiles would work also and this is at range.

There would be a few hundred if not atleast 1,000 fighters to take that thing down
Just want to point out, just a normal covenant cruiser (not a CCS battlecruiser, a normal cruiser, which is only about a third the size of a CCS.) took two direct MAC cannons and three nukes to take down.


and a super destroyer was destroyed by the combined fire of 27 UNSC ships going all out. so that was null

  • 07.14.2011 5:10 AM PDT

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  • 07.14.2011 5:23 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553

Just to point out (My exact memory of the book is......alright) a single SMAC could down a cruiser shields and rip it through stern to stern.

20 of these orbiting Reach, combined fire and the Super Carrier would be downed without a doubt.

But for some reason, yet again Bungie decided to make their own horrible canon. The game could have been so awesome had at least some of the books events been followed.

  • 07.14.2011 5:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: cameo_cream
Just to point out (My exact memory of the book is......alright) a single SMAC could down a cruiser shields and rip it through stern to stern.

20 of these orbiting Reach, combined fire and the Super Carrier would be downed without a doubt.

But for some reason, yet again Bungie decided to make their own horrible canon. The game could have been so awesome had at least some of the books events been followed.


Which is the issue of


1. if the ship is on Geo synch how the hell did it get that close without being seen?

  • 07.14.2011 5:42 AM PDT
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Again, we have to lean on the fact that 100 ships and 20 SMAC's can't defend an entire planet.

  • 07.14.2011 6:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: cameo_cream
Just to point out (My exact memory of the book is......alright) a single SMAC could down a cruiser shields and rip it through stern to stern.

20 of these orbiting Reach, combined fire and the Super Carrier would be downed without a doubt.

But for some reason, yet again Bungie decided to make their own horrible canon. The game could have been so awesome had at least some of the books events been followed.


Which is the issue of


1. if the ship is on Geo synch how the hell did it get that close without being seen?
It was cloaked and had been monitoring Reach for over a month. When they were ready they just "fell" onto the planet. Which is stupid if you ask me.

It still doesn't explain how they didn't pick up the Super Carrier coming in through Slips.pace

  • 07.14.2011 6:13 AM PDT

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Posted by: the n00b pwner
1.Because shields aren't affected by surface area, it needs on the same amount of power to get the same shield strength.

So where does the additional energy come from? If that SC wants shields that are comparable to an Assault Carriers then it has to provide 25x more power to it. No extra power, no extra shields. I ain't talking about the redistribution of force. But an Assault Carrier's shields are far from being infallible to 20 SMACs and an entire fleet of ship MACs. That is well over 1 teraton every 5 seconds that it would have to shake off from Reach's full defence force.

I don't even think that there is a Forerunner ship that could take this to be honest. This puts the Covenant on a whole new level. Halo is always accused of being a happy ending service but this is just ridiculous.

Posted by: the n00b pwner
2.One hundred around high charity? Those are assault carriers, not supercarriers. Again, my guess is that the supercarriers are to rare and expensive to risk at just any battle.

No they are Supercarriers. There are hundreds of them in station keeping positions around High Charity. It is on the first page of the First Strike Epilogue.

  • 07.14.2011 7:31 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: USDA Beefmaster

Posted by: raganok99
All guys, you probably don't understand how shielding works with varying of size. Bigger DOES NOT mean that it will have stronger shield! Let's look this: Supercarrier would need numerous reactors to power the ship AND divert it to shielding to COVER all areas of supercarrier, not strengthening it. It is likely is equal to Assault Carrier's shield strength.

AND, 100 UNSC ships are plenty enough to take out a supercarrier at ease, with moderate to heavy losses. 100 MAC rounds, probably more since destroyers and cruisers holds two MAC guns, with thousands of Archer missiles, a hundred shiva nuclear warhead is enough to drop SC. And it was calculated that most of Covenant's shields can't withstand more than 15 to 30 megatons of TNT, as shown at Fall of Reach where prowlers dropped a layer of HORNET mines (it has 30 megaton of TNT) and destroyed 1/3th of FoJ Fleet. That's over a hundred ship lost to fireball of nuclear detonations.

It is illogical to see that 100 UNSC ships wouldn't able to handle a SC. I don't know why those folks tries to defend the Reach because they like it better than version of tfor and first strike which it absolutely makes no sense.

Sad to see.
If the super carrier had pulse lasers or whatever the hell they're called (I'm no Halo fanboy, and the amount of knowledge on Halo in this thread both amuses and terrifies me), but I'm pretty sure that the supercarriers were equipped with these lasers and that they have a range of over 100,000 km. Now at the speed of light it could destroy dozens of UNSC ships before they even got in range of the carrier


they don't work like that nor was there range ever stated. they are light weapons normally used against fighters but can do decent damage to UNSC ships.


He's referring to the Energy Projector. Which has been known to fire at a target 100,000 km away, and later burn 5 UNSC ships to the ground.

Supercarriers have 7 of them, so could theoretically destroy 35 in a single pulse, not to mention the impossibly powerful plasma turrets the thing must be packing.

But what's important to note is that UNSC fleets likely travel in organized lines, or phalanxes, a well placed shot easily going through several of them. Judging from the power calculated of other Covie ships, a Covie supercarrier would be a huge catch indeed.

But that no less negates the required stupidity of the UNSC to have lost the battle. I do not doubt that the SC's strength in shields is easily the strongest in the fleet, as larger ships always have stronger everything in Halo, but in order for it to be a quick and bloody battle, the SC would have needed all the UNSC to be lined up in squardons for it only needing a few well placed rounds to destroy the entire fleet.

I would assume the UNSC knew this and took other actions against the SC. A Covie Battlecruiser once took on Cole's entire fleet and almost won due to shear shield strength, but that was almost 3 decades ago. They should know by know not to line themselves up for an easy shot, and would have scattered to prevent getting pummeled.

(Edit: That's 40 UNSC ships spitting all the MACs they had at once, simply got rejected by the shields, second salvo killed it).

The only explanation, therefore, of the UNSC fleet's defeat is shear stupidity. I know a single SC plasma torp would like vaporize any UNSC ship down to atoms, but I can almost garuntee you spamming 30 megaton nukes from 100 ships would have defeated the thing's shields.

Thusly, chalk another Reach plot hole up to lazy writing and stupid tactics.

[Edited on 07.14.2011 7:55 AM PDT]

  • 07.14.2011 7:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: anton1792

I don't even think that there is a Forerunner ship that could take this


WHAT THE... We talking about the same Forerunners here?

Though I agree Forerunner def calcs are lacking...

  • 07.14.2011 10:38 AM PDT
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The correct answer is: Who gives a -blam!-? Enjoy the game and books for what they are. Try not too get too technical and serious about it. It just makes you weird for getting worked up and over analyzing these things.

  • 07.14.2011 10:46 AM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
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Might I suggest to the OP to change the 100 in the title to 99. We see 1 Frigate get destroyed by the Super Carrier.
Also Carter's statement suggests more ships were destroyed.

  • 07.14.2011 11:01 AM PDT



1.Because shields aren't affected by surface area, it needs on the same amount of power to get the same shield strength.

So where does the additional energy come from? If that SC wants shields that are comparable to an Assault Carriers then it has to provide 25x more power to it. No extra power, no extra shields. I ain't talking about the redistribution of force. But an Assault Carrier's shields are far from being infallible to 20 SMACs and an entire fleet of ship MACs. That is well over 1 teraton every 5 seconds that it would have to shake off from Reach's full defence force.

It does not need to be 25x more powerful given the same amount of power the shields would be weaker per square meter, but because they can redistribute the power from the entirety of the much larger shield, they can still protect from the same amount of force. (Would you like a more detailed explanation?)

I don't even think that there is a Forerunner ship that could take this to be honest. This puts the Covenant on a whole new level. Halo is always accused of being a happy ending service but this is just ridiculous.

A much smaller assault carrier got through earth's much more powerful defenses so it is possible. But as stated in Tip of the Spear, the orbital defenses were down (presumably the generators) up until the main fleet arrived.

Posted by: the n00b pwner
2.One hundred around high charity? Those are assault carriers, not supercarriers. Again, my guess is that the supercarriers are to rare and expensive to risk at just any battle.

No they are Supercarriers. There are hundreds of them in station keeping positions around High Charity. It is on the first page of the First Strike Epilogue.

That could be a typo (First Strike is known for its typos) or it could mean hundreds combined of the two kinds of ships with nearly all cruisers and only a couple supercarriers.

[Edited on 07.14.2011 11:28 AM PDT]

  • 07.14.2011 11:24 AM PDT

You know it's almost as if the halo universe isn't real :o

  • 07.14.2011 11:49 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: grey101
There is no excuse whatsoever for a single ship to wipe out 100, none in the covenants category.

1 salvo of MACs would be enough to take that thing, i am working out it the thousands of archer missiles would work also and this is at range.

There would be a few hundred if not atleast 1,000 fighters to take that thing down
Just want to point out, just a normal covenant cruiser (not a CCS battlecruiser, a normal cruiser, which is only about a third the size of a CCS.) took two direct MAC cannons and three nukes to take down.


and a super destroyer was destroyed by the combined fire of 27 UNSC ships going all out. so that was null
A SuperCarrier > A SuperDestroyer

  • 07.14.2011 11:57 AM PDT

Smoke Weed, Hail Satan

WTF did Jorge take out then?

  • 07.14.2011 5:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Noob it clearly says there were hundreds of supercarriers and crusiers orbiting high charity, that isn't a typo.

  • 07.14.2011 7:23 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

The Long Night of Solace revealed itself on August 12, and was destroyed on August 14.

It likely destroyed any orbital platforms in its vicinity after exposing itself.

This leaves two days where the UNSC "should" have taken that thing down.

However, the Viery territory was also under attack, and there were several UNSC ships assisting with the defense of the territory most likely.

And I think this forum is underestimating the power of a 27 kilometer long ship.

  • 07.14.2011 7:30 PM PDT