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This topic has moved here: Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?
  • Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?
Subject: So 100 ships couldn't defeat a Supercarrier?

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

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Posted by: aaz b
I don't get it either.

"That thing is tearing us to pieces"

How does the Core military planet for the UNSC get torn to pieces by a single Super Carrier?

If you've read any of the books, you'd know the UNSC did not kick the Covenant's ass even slighly until the events of the Halo trilogy. There were some major victories, like Admiral Cole's campaign, but those were rare.

And I'm pretty sure a 27km ship isn't a small deal.

  • 07.14.2011 7:33 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: aaz b
I don't get it either.

"That thing is tearing us to pieces"

How does the Core military planet for the UNSC get torn to pieces by a single Super Carrier?

If you've read any of the books, you'd know the UNSC did not kick the Covenant's ass even slighly until the events of the Halo trilogy. There were some major victories, like Admiral Cole's campaign, but those were rare.

And I'm pretty sure a 27km ship isn't a small deal.
We might not have won a lot of the battles but we have won several key victories throughout the war. That Super Carrier is big, that much is true, but that only puts a bigger strain on it's needs for power to give the shields energy. The Corvettes don't even have shields! A half dozen Corvettes and a Super Carrier would be taken down by 100 Ships and 20 SMAC's in minutes, even if the SMAC's were under attack, the ships alone could easily gut the SuperCarrier apart with their MAC's.

  • 07.14.2011 8:35 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Here's a quote from Halopedia when it talks about the Covenant Supercarrier (yes, I trust this particular article because I am not ignorant to the canon as I have read all the books, and this has nothing to do with Forerunners).

Covenant supercarriers are thought to be the most powerful non-Forerunner space-faring vessels ever created. Carrying seven lethal energy projectors, thousands of pulse lasers and point defense turrets, plasma torpedo launchers and hundreds of squadrons of Seraph-class single ship fighters, a Covenant supercarrier is an even match for fleets of ships, capable of obliterating even Assault Carriers and certainly any human vessels.

If a ship carries god damn seven energy projectors which can cut ships in half at light speed, I don't have a hard time understanding how it took out dozens of ships.

And there weren't 100 ships fighting the carrier anyway.

  • 07.14.2011 9:37 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

One super mac could easily take that thing down, they were designed to that.

We all already know how powerful super macs are, we then know there is deffinatly something wrong with the plot. Reach was a let down when it came to showing the human might, this was a human military planet and there was -blam!- all presence of any human resistance there.

Reach was a tremendous loss, bud.

Even in the original novel, the UNSC gets its ass handed to it. Both sides suffered tremendous casualties, the Covenant won the battle, and the UNSC won a strategic victory (finding Halo).

  • 07.14.2011 9:39 PM PDT

1 SuperDestroyer = 20-ish UNSC ships
1 Assault Carrier = 5 SuperDestroyers
1 Supercarrier = 5 Assault Carriers

Therefore,

1 Supercarrier = 25 Superdestroyers
1 Supercarrier = 500-ish UNSC ships

So yes. 100 ships are no match for a Supercarrier.

[Edited on 07.15.2011 1:59 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2011 1:57 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Kalawaki
1 SuperDestroyer = 25-ish UNSC ships
1 Assault Carrier = 5 SuperDestroyers
1 Supercarrier = 5 Assault Carriers

Therefore,

1 Supercarrier = 25 Superdestroyers
1 Supercarrier = 625-ish UNSC ships

So yes. 100 ships are no match for a Supercarrier.


You... Have... No... Idea... What... You're... Talking... About...

  • 07.15.2011 2:00 AM PDT

It took the combined firepower of over 20 ships to take down a superdestroyer.

A supercarrier is five times the size and firepower of an assault carrier.

An assault carrier is five times the size and firepower of a superdestroyer.

Do the math yourself, if you wish. You siverely underestimate the firepower of the most powerful non-forerunner ship ever to hit halo canon.

  • 07.15.2011 2:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: fxnavarro
Ive put together some information that may help but you guys should pay more attention to these little details.

"Our foe is more devious than we imagined. That spire was indeed a teleporter linked to a cloaked, Covenant supercarrier... A grave threat."

"Thankfully, help is imminent. Sixty percent of the UNSC fleet is en route to Reach from existing deployments. The first battle group should arrive within forty-eight hours."

"All our nukes are either out-system or went down with the ships that carried them. You're preaching to the converted."

Judging by Carter's line it makes it clear that more UNSC ships than the Grafton had been lossed. Its possible they engaged the Supercarrier and had to retreat and wait for the Battlegroups to arrive. My guess is that any Orbital Defenses on that side of the planet were destroyed via Phantom Gunboats, (the same way they planned to take out Anchor 9) those are smaller targets but carry heavy weapons making them perfect for the job.
The LNoS then deployed its remaining troops and retreated to a safe distance to wait for reinforcements. Proof of the deployment is in the Ardent Prayer's bridge.


Wait, Wait!

No. No. Before August 30th, any ODPS was never destroyed AT ALL. Just before 30th, it had 20 SMACs. As it has confirmed in TfoR, SMACs were here at Reach since 2517.

AND 100 UNSC ships defending Reach with 20 SMACs is PLENTY ENOUGH TO DESTROY A SUPERCARRIER.

And everybody, it is calculated that Covenant's shields cannot withstand over a 30 megaton of TNT! Also, repeated hits from MACs, Archer missiles and Nuclear Warheads are enough to take out shields as well! And supercarrier's shield strength is not stronger, I can tell. More like equal to assault carrier's strength.

And SMAC can take out supercarrier since their firepower is 51.6 gigatons of TNT which is one-shot kill for ANY covenant ships.

And, in first strike, that space station did have hundreds of supercarriers AND cruisers. There is no typo error, Noobpwner. You're just misreading, that's all.

  • 07.15.2011 2:13 AM PDT


Posted by: raganok99
And supercarrier's shield strength is not stronger, I can tell. More like equal to assault carrier's strength.
Where can you prove that a supercarrier's shields are not stronger? So far we have seen that the bigger the covenant ship, the stronger its shields. And the fact remains that said Supercarrier didn't only reveal itself and flee, in the scene following Noble Team was specifically saying that the supercarrier was dominating the entire planets defenses.

Post proof that its shields are not stronger, or don't make such claims.

Furthermore, if a SMAC can 1-shot a supercarrier, why didn't one do so while it was still within orbit after the first spire went down and it was revealed? only 20 SMAC's stationed around an entire planet would need to have adept range to cover the entire surface area of the planet in defenses. So several SMAC's could have targeted said supercarrier before it retreated.

[Edited on 07.15.2011 2:27 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2011 2:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: raganok99
And supercarrier's shield strength is not stronger, I can tell. More like equal to assault carrier's strength.
Where can you prove that a supercarrier's shields are not stronger? So far we have seen that the bigger the covenant ship, the stronger its shields.

Post proof that it is not stronger, or don't make such claims.


Because any size does not make that shields stronger, it depends on degree of shield generator. For instance, bigger ships would require larger reactor to cover everything such as: life support system, electronics, engine system, Slip-Space FTL device, bridge system, maintaining plasma weapons, shield generator, etc. All of that requires x amount of energy to be used to power the systems and it takes away energy that was diverted to shield generator. Also, the size is issue since it would "stretch" out shield layers to cover all 16 mile long ship.

Anton can explain in deeper details.

And, SMAC was in other position in the Reach but it has capabilities to move to another position so it should have destroyed supercarrier as it appeared at Reach. But it didn't because of bad writing plot.

[Edited on 07.15.2011 2:28 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2011 2:26 AM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: raganok99
And supercarrier's shield strength is not stronger, I can tell. More like equal to assault carrier's strength.
Where can you prove that a supercarrier's shields are not stronger? So far we have seen that the bigger the covenant ship, the stronger its shields.

Post proof that it is not stronger, or don't make such claims.


Because any size does not make that shields stronger, it depends on degree of shield generator. For instance, bigger ships would require larger reactor to cover everything such as: life support system, electronics, engine system, Slip-Space FTL device, bridge system, maintaining plasma weapons, shield generator, etc. All of that requires x amount of energy to be used to power the systems and it takes away energy that was diverted to shield generator. Also, the size is issue since it would "stretch" out shield layers to cover all 16 mile long ship.

Anton can explain in deeper details.
Yet in every single scenario we have seen concerning the covenant, the bigger the ship the stronger the shields. Unless you can explain to me exactly how covenant technology works (Dr. Halsey couldn't even figure out how a simple needler functioned properly), then you can't claim you know for sure anything about their technological feats.

  • 07.15.2011 2:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: raganok99
And supercarrier's shield strength is not stronger, I can tell. More like equal to assault carrier's strength.
Where can you prove that a supercarrier's shields are not stronger? So far we have seen that the bigger the covenant ship, the stronger its shields.

Post proof that it is not stronger, or don't make such claims.


Because any size does not make that shields stronger, it depends on degree of shield generator. For instance, bigger ships would require larger reactor to cover everything such as: life support system, electronics, engine system, Slip-Space FTL device, bridge system, maintaining plasma weapons, shield generator, etc. All of that requires x amount of energy to be used to power the systems and it takes away energy that was diverted to shield generator. Also, the size is issue since it would "stretch" out shield layers to cover all 16 mile long ship.

Anton can explain in deeper details.
Yet in every single scenario we have seen concerning the covenant, the bigger the ship the stronger the shields. Unless you can explain to me exactly how covenant technology works (Dr. Halsey couldn't even figure out how a simple needler functioned properly), then you can't claim you know for sure anything about their technological feats.


Um, if I recall correctly, tFoR book, Dr. Halsey explained about Covenant's shield technology. I don't remember which page for it, I'll look at it now.

  • 07.15.2011 2:30 AM PDT


Posted by: raganok99
Um, if I recall correctly, tFoR book, Dr. Halsey explained about Covenant's shield technology. I don't remember which page for it, I'll look at it now.
That was her brainstorming about a jackal's energy gauntlet. There is a signifigant difference in design and function concerning ship shielding.

Edit: my mistake, thought you said her journal.

In halsey's journal, she can't even begin to figure out the way a needler works after taking it apart. She literally could find no attachment from the firing mechanism and the rest of the weapon. Nothing mechanical, chemical, radioactive, electrical, absolutely nothing connected the needler'd trigger to the rest of the weapon.

She couldn't figure out how a needler works. I doubt she can understand their ship shielding tech.

[Edited on 07.15.2011 2:37 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2011 2:32 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

I think you are seriously underestimating the Long Night Of Solace here, the ship is vast.

Covenant ships (perhaps unsurprisingly) seem to get much more powerful with size, probably because they can then mount larger reactors, or more reactors within the vessel.

A Covenant Assault Carrier is a grave threat to a UNSC fleet, the Long Night Of Solace makes these ships look like toys. I find it completely believable that this type of vessel could achieve a crushing superiority over the fleet stationed at Reach.

Consider: The UNSC fleet is mostly composed of frigates, so it seems likely the fleet at Reach is in the majority composed of frigate-class ships, supporting a core group of cruisers.
We know that a CCS-class battlecruiser (tiny at 1.3km) can make swiss cheese of UNSC frigates, and from a paniced admiral in the Halo 2 trailer that frigates are "combat ineffective" against an Assault Carrier (5.something km).

The Supercarrier dwarfs these ships, and outmasses the UNSC fleet by likely an order of magnitude, the UNSC's only hope was the super-MAC stations. It's fleet is largely irrelevant, they are like gnats bothering an Elephant.

Given the supercarrier first decloaks on the surface, below the orbital defense grid it seems likely it was able to gut at least the closest of them before they could reorient. This assumes the SMAC stations are even capable of firing on a target on the surface (maneuverability) and the high risk of friendly fire (several gigatonnes being blasted into your own planet does the covie's job for them.)

Regardless, the Long Night Of Solace does not appear to be damaged when we see it later in orbit, so we must assume that when it encountered the MAC stations it killed them.

  • 07.15.2011 5:01 AM PDT

HNH


Posted by: grey101
There is no excuse whatsoever for a single ship to wipe out 100, none in the covenants category.

1 salvo of MACs would be enough to take that thing, i am working out it the thousands of archer missiles would work also and this is at range.

There would be a few hundred if not atleast 1,000 fighters to take that thing down


You do have to remember that this was a very small party and the ships were hard to defeat since they have shields a corvette could take on a couple of frigates its self and win. They probably didn't want to waste ships since they had already lost so many. The archer missels don't have an unlimited fuel supply so it would be hard to make a distance trip especially if the defense lasers would destroy most of the missels before they even hit. And the fighters would be a pointless loss of piolets when they need all of those they can get probably

  • 07.15.2011 8:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

so if high charity has hundreds of these ships that alone could take out 100 UNSC ships then why didn't just spare 15 of them and have them travel around destroying us?

they have HUNDREDS of these things, so they should have one both space and ground engagements if they just let go 15- 25 of them.

  • 07.15.2011 8:25 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
As much as it pains me to say it,
It kills me too Josh had a point. Instead of wasting many ships, using one to covertly attack the SC made more sense.

  • 07.15.2011 8:51 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

I think the most pertinent question is, why are the Forerunners just so much better?

inb4compensatingforsomething

  • 07.15.2011 9:29 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Lord Slade
I think the most pertinent question is, why are the Forerunners just so much better?

inb4compensatingforsomething


funny thing is that the 60 mile fortress class ship was ripped apart by the hundreds of sentinels defending halo.

Size is irrelevant to numbers

  • 07.15.2011 10:08 AM PDT

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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Lord Slade
I think the most pertinent question is, why are the Forerunners just so much better?

inb4compensatingforsomething

It wasn't...
It was destroyed by the halo ring itself. Damaged atleast. That 100km long fortress-class did not shoot at the halo itself. The sentinels were specialized variants. The most common sentinels that you see are Aggressors. These were not aggressors.
Also I did notice that it was after I provided my estimations that a halo ring was 300km wide that people used that number. In official sources it's 318km wide so I was close.

funny thing is that the 60 mile fortress class ship was ripped apart by the hundreds of sentinels defending halo.

Size is irrelevant to numbers

  • 07.15.2011 10:25 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Like I said before, the ship most definitely destroyed the Orbital Platform near it, and there weren't 100 ships to attack the Super Carrier. A Super Carrier is no joke. It is said to have seven energy projectors, plasma torpedoes, as well as turrets and defense systems which can destroy incoming archer missiles.

I honestly don't see this as an issue. There are other issues that I think are more important to discuss about the Fall of Reach.

  • 07.15.2011 11:31 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: grey101
funny thing is that the 60 mile fortress class ship was ripped apart by the hundreds of sentinels defending halo.

Size is irrelevant to numbers
If you mean Deep Reverence, that ship was falling apart to begin with, not to mention outdated.

  • 07.15.2011 12:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: grey101
funny thing is that the 60 mile fortress class ship was ripped apart by the hundreds of sentinels defending halo.

Size is irrelevant to numbers
If you mean Deep Reverence, that ship was falling apart to begin with, not to mention outdated.


ignore that statement because i was asleep when i typed that.

and Deep reverence wasn't even at the capital :/

  • 07.15.2011 12:15 PM PDT

I am the God Emprah of Mankind.

Deal with it.

Why would the UNSC move all of it's forces to take out one ship? If they did that the rest of the planet would be 100% open to Covenant attacks, then they'd be even more screwed. They went with Noble Team's plan because if it worked they would only lose one frigate, a whole lot better than Reach's entire fleet.

  • 07.15.2011 12:48 PM PDT