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Subject: Reach's Canon Error Explanations

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Ok so there has been several people complaining about some canon "errors" from Halo: Reach. Uses information from various Halo media, I have provided the best explanations for these "errors" After you have read this thread, there is no excuse to go off and say Reach is not canon.
While there are some minor ret-cons Bungie made, they are not severe whatsoever. Also it should be noted that the Fall of Reach has had several ret-cons already. Big deal if a couple more are made. 95% of the storyline of the book is still the same.


Reach's fleet

August 12

Tip of the Spear occurs.
At least 1 Frigate is destroyed.

Noble Team retreats along with all UNSC forces.

BTW John is in the planet at this time. It is interesting to note that in the Fall of Reach John says that his home will not fall. While the Covenant are never said to be on the planet, it is never said that they weren't on the planet in the book.

August 13

60% of the UNSC fleet is on route to Reach. Arrival within 48 hours. Most likely case is that the local Reach fleets begins to fight off the Super Carrier and suffers huge loses. The Super Carrier is significantly larger than a Cruiser, which is already bigger than Halcyon class Cruisers and Frigates. The Super Carrier most likely has shields extremely stronger than it's smaller counterpart. The fleet retreats.

During ONI: Sword Base, a Orbital Defense Platform destroys the Corvette. While it is never stated that ODPs can be moved, it is likely to assume that it is geo-synced and cannot be moved. We see that on Long Night of Solace, that Anchor 9 is relatively over the area where Sword Base is. Therefore, it can be concluded, that the debris in the distance is in fact the ODP mentioned during Sword Bose.

August 14

Operation: UPPERCUT occurs. The UNSC performs a low level strike to take out the Super Carrier. This minimizes overall loses and resource use.
NOTE: The Covenant seen until the end of Long Night of Solace are from the Fleet of Valiant Predence.

Another Covenant Fleet arrives and possibly destroys the rest of the local UNSC fleet.

Most likely on Aug. 14 or 15, the 60% UNSC fleet arrives and puts up a fight with the fleet.


Reach wasn't the only planet in the system attacked by the Covenant
It should be noted that the Battle of Tribute occurred sometime in August. Tribute is in the same solar system as Reach. Dutch was present during the evacuation of the colony, and witnessed the near-total destruction of the UNSC Navy escort fleet in orbit as they protected civilian refugees. This escort fleet was most likely made up of the local fleet.


The Pillar of Autumn on August 30
Just read this
0616 Hours: Blue Team performs their operation on Gamma Station
0637 Hours: John retreats with Linda's body to the Pillar of Autumn
0647 Hours: The Pillar of Autumn is contacted and is ordered to land on Reach and retrieve the rest of Cortana.
1652 Hours: B312 gives Keyes Cortana and the ship leaves the system as said in The Fall of Reach.

There. Now don't talk about the inconsistencies of timeline.

Number of Spartan-IIIs
This one is also just a simple ret-con that some people can't seem to get over. Ok there are HUNDREDS of S-IIIs for each company. It's not hard to believe that at least a dozen are taken out for various other assignments (Noble Team, Headhunters, etc.)
It should be noted that Kat and Carter are the only surviving members of the original Noble Team. This means that Noble Team was first formed sometime after Beta Company's graduation. This also means that Jun and Emile did not join Noble until some time after. They could have been Headhunters before then.


If I see any other canon errors addressed by some people, I will address them here and attempt to fix them to the best of my ability.


[Edited on 07.13.2011 10:57 PM PDT]

  • 07.13.2011 10:56 PM PDT

Your speculations and assumptions are reasonable but farfetch.

August 12
With Slipspace Monitoring Stations around the system I think it would be difficult even for the covenant to slip by unnoticed and be planet-side for several days without being noticed, unlikely that this occured however not impossible.

August 13
Yeah Ok i can see that happening. If i am not mistaken Reach had a total of 20 MAC stations around the planet so suspect range was a factor in not engaging the covenant.

August 14
Interesting hypothesis and reasonable enough I suppose.

Pillar of Autumn
Sorry but this was a Fail by Bungie. According to TFOR, the Pillar of Autumn was nowhere near planet Reach when it was initially attacked. In fact none of the remaining 33+ SpartanII where planet-side.
All 33+ Spartan II are aboard the Pillar of Autumn preparing for a special mission, that is to commandeer a covenant spaceship and with luck to capture a Prophet.
Oh and I forgot to mention that Cortana, yes thats right, Cortana, was also aboard the Pillar of Autumn, not in Reach.
So in conclusion the timeline and events projected in this game are...wrong. Plain and simple.

Number of Spartan III
Yes I agree with you on this point. I believe there were 300+ spartans in each of Alpha, Beta and Gamma company, so yes i suppose Kurt must have removed some spartans prior to operations PROMETHEUS and TORPEDO.

Well these are my 2 cents.

  • 07.14.2011 12:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
If these errors are unexplainable, then how come I explained them?


we didn't answer that for the 4th time fir a reason and it wasn't because you "fixed" anything. not to mention you don't go over every single issue.

"While the Covenant are never said to be on the planet, it is never said that they weren't on the planet in the book."

clear and obvious contradiction.


60 percent of the damn UNSC fleet isn't going to be local stuff, that is majority of the entire damn fleet.

and uppercut is still stupid and completely retarded.

tribute was attacked after reach, if it was attacked before hand the UNSC would have known idiot.

i am positive you got some time error with the PoA and even if you didn't the fact that it is on reach during a covenant invasion is the main red flag other than it being in atmosphere.

NOBLE team make sense because jun and emile should have been there from the start


Posted by: privet caboose

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
If these errors are unexplainable, then how come I explained them?


...but you didn't.




Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
If these errors are unexplainable, then how come I explained them?


Lol, you didn't fix anything at all. You just covered it up with another contradictions which it makes your arguments futile now.

There is still unexplainable errors in Reach. As Grey described, I agree with him.



Posted by: MasterSin

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
If these errors are unexplainable, then how come I explained them?


I lol'ed at this.

All you did was to resume and match up the events of Halo: Reach and The fall of Reach.



Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: grey101
i am positive you got some time error with the PoA and even if you didn't the fact that it is on reach during a covenant invasion is the main red flag other than it being in atmosphere.


Nah, no time error. Plenty of time for both missions to happen, thanks to a retcon.

That's all I'm gonna point out though. Not touching the rest because as you said, he didn't fix crap.


immortalJoshua you are the biggest fool to ever come here and i am thinking of getting a rally to have you permabanned for spamming

  • 07.14.2011 12:11 AM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: LegionKnights
Pillar of Autumn
Sorry but this was a Fail by Bungie. According to TFOR, the Pillar of Autumn was nowhere near planet Reach when it was initially attacked. In fact none of the remaining 33+ SpartanII where planet-side.


Except they came back when the orders went out. The little time-line he has set-up works.

Posted by: LegionKnights
Oh and I forgot to mention that Cortana, yes thats right, Cortana, was also aboard the Pillar of Autumn, not in Reach.
So in conclusion the timeline and events projected in this game are...wrong. Plain and simple.


That's been covered and explained. The Cortana you deliver is nothing more then a fragment of herself. Halsey explains this in her journal.

343i just needs to explain what the hell goes on between August 14th - August 30th, along with other details that have been discussed here.

  • 07.14.2011 12:24 AM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg


Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: LegionKnights
Pillar of Autumn
Sorry but this was a Fail by Bungie. According to TFOR, the Pillar of Autumn was nowhere near planet Reach when it was initially attacked. In fact none of the remaining 33+ SpartanII where planet-side.


Except they came back when the orders went out. The little time-line he has set-up works.

Posted by: LegionKnights
Oh and I forgot to mention that Cortana, yes thats right, Cortana, was also aboard the Pillar of Autumn, not in Reach.
So in conclusion the timeline and events projected in this game are...wrong. Plain and simple.


That's been covered and explained. The Cortana you deliver is nothing more then a fragment of herself. Halsey explains this in her journal.

343i just needs to explain what the hell goes on between August 14th - August 30th, along with other details that have been discussed here.


Yes. Just simple ret-cons. So when you guys are saying "But this and that didn't happen," please stop. It's just been ret-coned. Remember in The Fall of Reach how Halsey only theorized about the Elites existence? Best example.

  • 07.14.2011 12:27 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: LegionKnights
Pillar of Autumn
Sorry but this was a Fail by Bungie. According to TFOR, the Pillar of Autumn was nowhere near planet Reach when it was initially attacked. In fact none of the remaining 33+ SpartanII where planet-side.


Except they came back when the orders went out. The little time-line he has set-up works.

Posted by: LegionKnights
Oh and I forgot to mention that Cortana, yes thats right, Cortana, was also aboard the Pillar of Autumn, not in Reach.
So in conclusion the timeline and events projected in this game are...wrong. Plain and simple.


That's been covered and explained. The Cortana you deliver is nothing more then a fragment of herself. Halsey explains this in her journal.

343i just needs to explain what the hell goes on between August 14th - August 30th, along with other details that have been discussed here.


Yes. Just simple ret-cons. So when you guys are saying "But this and that didn't happen," please stop. It's just been ret-coned. Remember in The Fall of Reach how Halsey only theorized about the Elites existence? Best example.


no. in the original FoR elites were rarely seen and normally used as officers on the field.

the whole subplot with cortana is pointless because

1. she was already able to decode the coordinates

2. this means that they knew something highly important was at that location and that was the reason for leaving reach. which completely shatters the epicness that halo was found on a dire chance.

that is why the cortana plot is an issue

  • 07.14.2011 12:30 AM PDT

its an issue because she was supposed to be on the ship with chief already. At least thats the bigger plot hole to me. Either way all the "major canon rips" in reach are extremely minor and should be able to be overlooked

  • 07.14.2011 5:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Uncarinelf
its an issue because she was supposed to be on the ship with chief already. At least thats the bigger plot hole to me. Either way all the "major canon rips" in reach are extremely minor and should be able to be overlooked


umm hell nooo

1.a 16 mile ship randomly being able to "mask" itself. you have the issue of it getting in the system anyway since the UNSC can track slipspace movements across systems and the normal frigate can detect ships in system. Not to mention the enormous amount of power needed to power the thing alone before even "masking" itself which i want to know how it blocked heat sigs.

You then have the issue of how the hell it got that close to the planet with the SMACS and the issues it destroyed 40 ships (stupid for the UNSC not to attack with 100) which then the UNSC recalled sixty percent of its entire fleet to attack one single ship.


This is just one large error

  • 07.14.2011 5:47 AM PDT
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"If something is easy, broken, cheap or can be abused, majority of the population will support it as a legit and or skilled concept/idea. Whatever people like and or love, they will thrive on it because no matter how broken it maybe, they do not like change."

Another thread? -_-

  • 07.14.2011 7:14 AM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Its'not an error. You just can't see it. I'm sorry u can't. U mad bro?

  • 07.14.2011 8:36 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Its'not an error. You just can't see it. I'm sorry u can't. U mad bro?

Trollin the BU forums once again...

  • 07.14.2011 9:13 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Its'not an error. You just can't see it. I'm sorry u can't. U mad bro?


so the new troll is telling the old one that he can't see something???

and i am about to be happy once your banned again

  • 07.14.2011 9:30 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Its'not an error. You just can't see it. I'm sorry u can't. U mad bro?


so the new troll is telling the old one that he can't see something???

and i am about to be happy once your banned again


Why would he get banned for trying to share his opinions or possibly help those who don't understand the different Canon Events happening at the same time?

In fact, you should most definitely get banned for flaming. You are targeting Joshua to flame him. I checked two different threads on different topics. He shares his opinion, you call him out. You should leave.

  • 07.14.2011 9:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Sparty14

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Its'not an error. You just can't see it. I'm sorry u can't. U mad bro?


so the new troll is telling the old one that he can't see something???

and i am about to be happy once your banned again


Why would he get banned for trying to share his opinions or possibly help those who don't understand the different Canon Events happening at the same time?

In fact, you should most definitely get banned for flaming. You are targeting Joshua to flame him. I checked two different threads on different topics. He shares his opinion, you call him out. You should leave.


you obviously haven't been around, he spams these forums all the time hence everybody disliking him and always reporting him.

and it isn't an opinion when somebody say you are wrong and you tell them they are wrong

  • 07.14.2011 9:35 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Sparty14

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Its'not an error. You just can't see it. I'm sorry u can't. U mad bro?


so the new troll is telling the old one that he can't see something???

and i am about to be happy once your banned again


Why would he get banned for trying to share his opinions or possibly help those who don't understand the different Canon Events happening at the same time?

In fact, you should most definitely get banned for flaming. You are targeting Joshua to flame him. I checked two different threads on different topics. He shares his opinion, you call him out. You should leave.


you obviously haven't been around, he spams these forums all the time hence everybody disliking him and always reporting him.

and it isn't an opinion when somebody say you are wrong and you tell them they are wrong


No, it isn't but you are flaming him when he does share an opinion, because you disagree with it, and you resort to flaming him. Now, if he is spamming this (barren and almost empty) forum, then he should be banned. But you shouldn't say anything about banning him when you are also guilty of a bannable offense.

  • 07.14.2011 9:59 AM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Grey, keep to the topic. I hate having to report you. And I'd hate to see you get banned and loose your title.


Anyway I noticed that some people are talking about the problem with the Covenant being undetected on Reach.
Covenant technology is far superior to the UNSC. It could be very well possible that the Super Carrier has more advanced cloaking abilities than just becoming "invisible."
Since Corvettes can dock with the Super Carrier, it can be assumed that the Super Carrier can actually "carry" multiple Corvettes with it or inside of it.

  • 07.14.2011 10:55 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Grey, keep to the topic. I hate having to report you. And I'd hate to see you get banned and loose your title.


Anyway I noticed that some people are talking about the problem with the Covenant being undetected on Reach.
Covenant technology is far superior to the UNSC. It could be very well possible that the Super Carrier has more advanced cloaking abilities than just becoming "invisible."
Since Corvettes can dock with the Super Carrier, it can be assumed that the Super Carrier can actually "carry" multiple Corvettes with it or inside of it.


Also don't forget that previous to the events in game (Thanks Halsey) there was alot of interference and oddities on the radars being reported among the UNSC forces in the area, plus Reach is huge meaning it is likely that the covies could had used that as a cover as the UNSC would detect it, only see a couple of rocks, and write it off. I think the UNSC was used to the ZERG RUSH RAWR! tactics of the covies as throughout the original TFoR (or maybe FS I forgot) it was noted that the covenant's tactics seemed odd.

I'm going to create a thread soon discussing some of these points along with some that (mostly due to the Canon Wars) you all missed or failed to pick up on. Really there's bigger things going on in Reach and we need to focus on that instead of "trying" (because honestly it's been a year and nobody has really agreed on anything) to convince the other side. I miss the old BU guys, the one where I could easily and happily read through a hundred plus post and ideas. Now I just want to bash my brains out.

[Edited on 07.14.2011 11:10 AM PDT]

  • 07.14.2011 11:07 AM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Or it's possible that the best explanation for these errors have been shown and SOME people reject it.

Space WBC probably were protesting on Reach saying it's doomed.

[Edited on 07.14.2011 11:14 AM PDT]

  • 07.14.2011 11:14 AM PDT

"On the seventh day, god did not rest, but rather he created 64 player multiplayer!"

Interference and oddities could be attributed to the Forerunner structures within Reach. Besides, I doubt cloaking a ship would be the CAUSE of interference. And if the Covie ships cause interference by themselves anyway, then there is no reason for the UNSC to be surprised about it.

  • 07.14.2011 11:20 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-

What I have a problem figuring out was why did they hit Visg. first, then I realized that the timing seemed highly important. The Doc had just decrypted (?) the data and out of nowhere the covies hit? To many coincidences are hardly coincidence Halsey says, I'd like to believe. My thread will tie in this idea plus alot of the things I brought up in other post I've made.

  • 07.14.2011 11:23 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-

Sorry I didn't want to say that it was all due to the ship, I believe that these oddities are what lead to the ship's unique movements and that because of it the ship wouldn't be caught out in the open easily.

  • 07.14.2011 11:26 AM PDT

What about the fact that in the book Halsey was in a bunker that the Covies were trying to dig out, and in the game she was suddenly in some research area? It's unlikely that she moved locations since the Covenant swarm was growing in intensity at that time. It's been a while since I read The Fall of Reach so I could be wrong about her location, but I'm pretty sure I remember her being in a high security research bunker in the middle of nowhere pretty much.

It's not so much the timing of the events but the events themselves that contradict each other. Also the game made it seem like Cortana was a Forerunner Ancilla rather than an AI programmed by Halsey. That was never really clear to me.

  • 07.14.2011 11:48 AM PDT


Posted by: mubox47
What about the fact that in the book Halsey was in a bunker that the Covies were trying to dig out, and in the game she was suddenly in some research area? It's unlikely that she moved locations since the Covenant swarm was growing in intensity at that time. It's been a while since I read The Fall of Reach so I could be wrong about her location, but I'm pretty sure I remember her being in a high security research bunker in the middle of nowhere pretty much.

It's not so much the timing of the events but the events themselves that contradict each other. Also the game made it seem like Cortana was a Forerunner Ancilla rather than an AI programmed by Halsey. That was never really clear to me.


I'm guessing that Jun and Halsey traveled from Sword Base to Castle Base. Jun either died defending her, or was reassigned upon finishing the escort mission.

  • 07.14.2011 11:54 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-

The last point, while true that it wasn't made clear, was explained in Halsey's journal. It was a fragment of Cortana made to keep working on the artifact, also the original Cortana was used to research the artifact at first. That's why she's familiar with FR tech.

The last point we don't really know but was chalked up to the -blam!- ton of mines Reach contained, that and the fact that there were countless of ways to get in and out for her. Idr for sure.

  • 07.14.2011 11:56 AM PDT


Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
The last point, while true that it wasn't made clear, was explained in Halsey's journal. It was a fragment of Cortana made to keep working on the artifact, also the original Cortana was used to research the artifact at first. That's why she's familiar with FR tech.


Ah, see I didn't get the edition with Halsey's journal so I didn't know that. Good to know, thanks.

  • 07.14.2011 12:00 PM PDT

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