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  • Subject: The Last Precursor?
Subject: The Last Precursor?

Okay, so, some of the Precursor artifacts that the Miners discover are hundreds of millions of years old, and yet they are still much more advanced than the Forerunners. As of the time of Cryptum, there is supposedly ONE Precursor left alive, the Prisoner of Charum Hakkor.

This prisoner was locked away in a manner that suggested imprisonment. He most likely created the Flood, and it was revenge for the Forerunners WIPING THEM OUT.

Now, I find it hard to believe that the Forerunners could have possibly wiped out a civilization pre-dating them by untold eons, and there's absolutely no way that the Precursors would possibly stay only in the Milky Way galaxy.

Anyone have any input about this? I personally can't believe they were all wiped out except for one.

  • 07.15.2011 8:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

if you actually understood the book you would know that he couldn't have created the flood, he was just "fishing" and only knew of that because the humans asked about it.

And greg implied that he was lying on his board

  • 07.15.2011 8:45 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
if you actually understood the book you would know that he couldn't have created the flood, he was just "fishing" and only knew of that because the humans asked about it.

And greg implied that he was lying on his board


Oh, I'm sorry then, because it appears I didn't actually understand the entire book. Thanks for the answer anyway, it was helpful.

  • 07.15.2011 8:48 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

I posted this in another discussion (Whether the Prisoner is the Gravemind)
It's relevant to this topic though:

At this point there isn't enough information to be sure, there are many possible options. I'll list a few that I think might be worth considering.

Points of note:

The Prisoner is confined in a structure of Precursor design, only openable from the outside. It may or may not be a prison.
The Prisoner is apparently aware of the nature of the Flood.
The Humans initially thought the Prisoner was a Precursor, but then later decided it was an "ancient abberation".
The Prisoner states it is "The last Precursor" when speaking to The Didact, it also states the Forerunner "ruthlessly destroyed" the Precursors, and that the Flood are their "answer".
The Prisoner apparently survived a Halo firing at close range, an event that killed all complex life in the system as well as shattering every structure in the entire system. It is seriously hard to kill.


Option 1:
The Flood are a Precursor bioweapon used in revenge against the rebellious Forerunner, the Prisoner is actually a Precursor survivour.

Points in favour:
The Prisoner outright states it is a Precursor when talking to the Didact, and claims the Flood are their answer to the Forerunner's betrayal.
The Precursor's biological knowledge is greater than the Human's or the Forerunner's, and something as biologically weird as the Flood seems unlikely to be natural.

Problems:
Initial delivery system (dust that takes centuries to generationally affect a mutation) is *very* poor for a bioweapon, effective mostly through luck it would seem. The ships that contained the mutagenic powder that would eventually result in the Flood are described as "clumsy in design" not something that would be assocciated with a civilisation that had as much starfaring experience as the Precursors. The ships also come from outside the galaxy, if the Forerunners eradicated the Precursors how did their bioweapons come in from outside the galaxy? Why did the Precursors simply not leave if they had the means to do so?

The spread from Pheru to Humans occurred due to Humans eating the meat of infected Pheru. Forerunners do not eat meat, thus would not be vulnerable to this method of infection. The infection apparently needs this stage, as it's only after humans become infected that the flood-ish disease becomes virulent, passing through touch primarily. This is also the first point that Flood-style group behaviour is noted.

The Prisoner is in a Precursor prison, not a Forerunner one. This strongly suggests he was imprisoned by the Precursors themselves.
During the Flood assault on the early Human empire (comparible tech to the Forerunner, and extensive holdings) the Prisoner is trapped in time-lock, unless the humans were shockingly inept, the gains the Flood were making would require a coordinating intelligence, and that intelligence could not have been the Prisoner.



Option 2:
The Prisoner is related to the Flood, but not a Precursor, it is simply lying to Didact. (It knew the Humans thought it a Precursor, and that both Humans and Forerunners somewhat revere the Precursors. It was aware the Forerunners had just "ruthlessly destroyed" the Humans who had destroyed the Flood.)
The Flood is genuinely extragalactic, and may not be a bioweapon, the automated ships may simply be acting as 'seed carriers' for the Flood lifeform.

Points in favour:
The Prisoner is aware the Humans initially thought it a Precursor, it is likely aware of the reverance many species hold for the Precursor.
Questions about advanced physics problems, or morality left it confused, if the Precursors were anything like the Forerunners these topics would be of note to any Precursor; The physics ones required to allow the Precursor hypertech, and the moral ones related to the Precursor concept of the Mantle.
The Prisoner is in a Precursor prison, suggesting the Precursors saw fit to imprison it in time.

The Forerunner revere the Precursors, it seems unlikely they slaughtered them all, not impossible by a long shot though.

The extragalactic vector for the Flood-dust ships is explained as they have been travelling for a long time across the void between galaxies. The "clumsy" ship design is a refelection of the Flood's lack of care for asthetics, they are Flood-made.
If the Flood are not a bioweapon then the length of time it takes the Flood strains to arise is not a problem, so long as the Flood genotype will eventually arise from the ashes, possibly the ancient ships were the Flood fleeing something? That would potentially explain the need for fully automated ships holding something that would not die or degrade, the journey was a long one.

Problems:
You have to assume the Prisoner was lying to Didact.
You have to assume the Prisoner was actually imprisoned.
If the Flood are extragalactic, it implies the Prisoner must be too, or have fought them.
If the Flood ships were the equivalent of spores, or seed pods, what did they have to flee that made them rely on automated and somewhat primitive looking ships? Why were they not pursued?
A lot of what the Gravemind says *IS* relatable to the context of the Prisoner, but his description does not match well any known Flood forms.


Option 3:
The Prisoner is NOT a prisoner, and is a Precursor.
The Flood were not originally a Bioweapon, but a Precursor experiment into different life forms, or biological information networks.

Points in favour:
The Precursor structure housing the "Prisoner" bears a strong resemblance to a Forerunner Cryptum. The title of the book may refer to more than just Didact's initial resting place.

The "Prisoner" told Didact the truth, so no need to assume it lied.

The Flood were not intended as a weapon, but were used as an ad-hoc revenge weapon as the Forerunners overthrew the Precursors. Or potentially the Flood were designed as something that could hold Precursor memories, much like a biological version of the Forerunner Domain, but were later perverted into a weapon. Which would explain both the Gravemind's name and outlook on the universe.

Problems:
The Prisoner does appear to be trapped, dependant on outside interference to "wake up". Unlike a Cryptum, time is stopped for the Prisoner, he is not eternally meditating or whatever the Didact was supposed to be doing, he is in some kind of stasis.

The Mantle is a Precursor concept, the Flood are a great big violation of that concept, if the Flood are a biological version of the Domain, something has gone terribly wrong.

Requires the Forerunner to have wiped out the Precursors, this is only ever mentioned by the Prisoner, and has a host of problems with it. Most notably WHY? And why revere them afterwards?
Problem of the ships, and where they came from, and why the Flood's initial vector was so poor as a weapon.

If the Prisoner is a Precursor, why did it so terrify the Humans that spoke to it? If it believed in the Mantle, why unleash the Flood?


Option 4:
The Prisoner *is* a prisoner, and is a Precursor.
The Flood were not originally a Bioweapon, but a Precursor experiment into different life forms, or biological information networks

Points in favour:
The Prisoner may have done something terrible, like turn the Flood into an ad-hoc weapon, this would go against what we know of Precursor beliefs and it would make sense that he was then imprisoned.
Explains it's knowledge of the Flood.
Explains why the Humans may have found it terrifying (Sociopathic/omnicidal tendancies make for very uncomfortable conversations I'd wager) .
If the Prisoner was imprisoned for doing something morally repulsive it could explain its lack of moral concepts.
Potential reason for the Forerunners rising up, if the Prisoner did something damning enough.
Explains the Gravemind's connection to the Prisoner, if they belonged to the Prisoner, the Gravemind may carry his imprint.

Problems:
All of the above re the Flood's poor bio-weapon-ness, the seemingly extragalactic ships, and the level of access the Prisoner would have to have to build a species like the Flood, without it's contemporaries taking note and stopping it.

Why didn't the Precursors destroy the Flood when they captured the Prisoner?
Why was the Prisoner left alive by the Precursors, or even the Forerunners?


Conclusions:
The above options are not exhaustive, it could be a combination of any number of these points, or something else entirely, not enough information to be sure.

We can, however, conclude that the Prisoner is not in sole control of the Flood. During the first major outbreak it was still trapped in it's time-prison, and a Gravemind equivalant must have been present for the Flood to do so well against the Humans/San-Shyuum.

It seems likely that the Prisoner at the very least conversed with the Gravemind, as the Gravemind makes references to imprisonment and timelessness far to often to be a coincidence.

  • 07.15.2011 9:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

1. it wasn't destroyed by the halo because it was tuned differently. the goal was to free the prisoner as mendicant bias had been talking to it for decades.

2.greg implied that the prisoner was lying on his board

3. good analysis, it is rare to seen new people actually post in detail well written stuff.

  • 07.15.2011 9:11 AM PDT

Very, very well written. i think you covered just about every realistic possibility there. Option 4 sounds good.

  • 07.15.2011 9:25 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

I'd actually prefer option 2 to be true, but I must admit I just like the "Flood are extragalactic unknown invaders" type angle, so I'm a bit biased there. Options 2 and 4 seemed the most likely to me, and I see no reason to take the Prisoner at his word.

I'm sure there are plenty other options, so don't restrict discussion to just those four though!

  • 07.15.2011 9:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

the flood are confirmed to be extra galactic since they came in the form of a powder. it is the fact that they then mutated into what we know as "the flood" that steers it away from being some type of weapon as there are too many factors into a mutation that would be difficult for it to be controlled on an alien race.

and the prisoner and the gravemind are one and the same, the entire subplot in cryptum was suppose to be a red flag to the ones that read the terminals.

which is why we now think that the "proto" graveminds might be the "natural" gravemind forms instead of the infected prisoner

  • 07.15.2011 9:35 AM PDT

"Defiant Reclaimer, he who will shatter the land and break the sky apart..."

May sound like a stupid question but how did the Forerunners devistate the Precursor race, they seem extremely hard to kill with there different tunings and unaging bodies. Or can they be killed relatively easily through direct physical force?

  • 07.15.2011 10:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: SparD
May sound like a stupid question but how did the Forerunners devistate the Precursor race, they seem extremely hard to kill with there different tunings and unaging bodies. Or can they be killed relatively easily through direct physical force?


How did the tribes of Germany beat the Romans?

How did the communist supporters of china beat the non communist supporters of china?

Rebels use the native technology against them, and just sheer force at times. It is extremely common in history unless somebody didn't pay attention in class :/

  • 07.15.2011 1:52 PM PDT

Ftw


Posted by: Tempus Irae
Okay, so, some of the Precursor artifacts that the Miners discover are hundreds of millions of years old, and yet they are still much more advanced than the Forerunners. As of the time of Cryptum, there is supposedly ONE Precursor left alive, the Prisoner of Charum Hakkor.

This prisoner was locked away in a manner that suggested imprisonment. He most likely created the Flood, and it was revenge for the Forerunners WIPING THEM OUT.

Now, I find it hard to believe that the Forerunners could have possibly wiped out a civilization pre-dating them by untold eons, and there's absolutely no way that the Precursors would possibly stay only in the Milky Way galaxy.

Anyone have any input about this? I personally can't believe they were all wiped out except for one.
look at my gamertag :) But I recently looked up on these about a few weeks ago were I got my gamertag and I copy/pasted my Bio talking about what Precursors are and I think in new Halo Trilogy your going to have to Contact the Last Precursor because in the Halo 4 trailer you are going into a dison sphere and thats pretty much the Forerunner planet, so i think your going to have to fight to get to the Forerunners and then they tell you about all the things that have happened in the Halo Universe and how the flood is the biggest threat so then John will have to contact the Last Precursor and ask how to defeat the flood or something along there. Halo 4- Forerunners/start looking for The Timeless one, Halo 5- Look for the Timeless one/ Get info on how to defeat flood. Halo 6- Finish the fight.

[Edited on 07.15.2011 2:03 PM PDT]

  • 07.15.2011 1:56 PM PDT