Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Regarding about Halo: Reach retcons on firepower of MAC
  • Subject: Regarding about Halo: Reach retcons on firepower of MAC
Subject: Regarding about Halo: Reach retcons on firepower of MAC
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

We saw that Halo Reach retconned some stuff such as downgrading MAC firepower, also downgrading Covenant's shields capacity and other stuff.

I'm bit confused, because if Halo: Reach being highest canon and therefore it says that standard MAC generates about 64 kilotons of TNT, then how standard MAC is capable to destroy a Covenant's shields as it was calculated to withstand little over 30 megatons of TNT? (Proof came from as tFoR and Ghosts of Onyx where they laid out several HAVOK Mines which it is 30 megaton strength and still destroyed covenant ships, although I may need to ask ROBERT or Grey to help this.) As other novels stated that it takes three MAC hits to drop the shields. With that logic, it would mean that UNSC ships would need to have firepower of 10 megaton of TNT (each shot) to effectively drop the shields. Of course, it depends on different types of classes of ships with varying shield strength.

But, I guess it can be fine if 64 kiloton of TNT is actually "safest" option for UNSC ship to fire in atmosphere without causing significant damages to the environment, people living the area, etc. So it would be likely it was fired in lower velocity, possibility of lower charged shot or lighter rounds.

However, I can agree that standard MAC dishing out 1.17 teratons of TNT is wholly absurd. I think it's best for MAC to at least to dish out about high kilotons of TNT to upper lower megaton of TNT.

So what's your thoughts?

-------------------------------

I apologize if I made grammar or spelling errors. Just let me know, I'll edit it.

  • 07.16.2011 3:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

TL;DR

  • 07.16.2011 3:13 PM PDT

I am the Leader of the Awrand Forces. If you wish to join message me in any medium.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Awrand_Forces/index.php?act=idx

Halo is possibly the worst franchise in terms of chancing continuity reletive to its size. I say just go with it...and expect more changes and mistakes in the future

  • 07.16.2011 3:14 PM PDT

I am the Leader of the Awrand Forces. If you wish to join message me in any medium.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Awrand_Forces/index.php?act=idx


Posted by: EvaKing
TL;DR
TL;DP

Too long? Dont post

  • 07.16.2011 3:15 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

Lower power, less speed, less firepower.

  • 07.16.2011 3:16 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: EvaKing
TL;DR


No, I will not post a TL:DR. Any people with 5th grade reading, can easily read several entire paragraphs without problems. So if you don't want to read, then don't post. But thanks for bump anyway, at least it keeps my thread alive.

Spartan 100
Lower power, less speed, less firepower.


Exactly. It's just, I don't think that UNSC's ship grade weapon of MAC with 64 kilotons were capable to taking down covenant shields. Also, I found many people does seem believe that 64 kilotons is highest yield of firepower for UNSC ship grade weapon of MAC.

[Edited on 07.16.2011 3:20 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2011 3:17 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER
Halo is possibly the worst franchise in terms of chancing continuity reletive to its size. I say just go with it...and expect more changes and mistakes in the future


Trust me there are other franchises worser in that regard

*points to star wars*

This always happen in large siencefiction franchises.

  • 07.16.2011 3:18 PM PDT

I am the Leader of the Awrand Forces. If you wish to join message me in any medium.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Awrand_Forces/index.php?act=idx


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER
Halo is possibly the worst franchise in terms of chancing continuity reletive to its size. I say just go with it...and expect more changes and mistakes in the future


Trust me there are other franchises worser in that regard

*points to star wars*

This always happen in large siencefiction franchises.

Starwars actually isnt that bad if you take into account the shear amount of books, games, and other stuff.

Halo is starting to get size from Halo Legends, and other books coming out. But it seems to have 5 changes every book, and might I add, never explained...unlike starwars

[Edited on 07.16.2011 3:23 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2011 3:20 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

MAC yield varie depending on the ship class and the velocity it is fired at.

BTW is the 64 kiloton from the fall of reach book?

  • 07.16.2011 3:21 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I am sure that 64 Kt comes from the Fall of Reach. (30km/s) Where did you hear that Reach retonned something?

The 30Mt HAVOK in Ghosts of Onyx (I think it was) didn't just destroy the ships, it vaporised them. I think that implies that far more energy was used than was necessary to render the vessels inoperable.

[Edited on 07.16.2011 3:31 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2011 3:31 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: anton1792
I am sure that 64 Kt comes from the Fall of Reach. (30km/s) Where did you hear that Reach retonned something?

The 30Mt HAVOK in Ghosts of Onyx (I think it was) didn't just destroy the ships, it vaporised them. I think that implies that far more energy was used than was necessary to render the vessels inoperable.


What? My newest (reprint) issue of Fall of Reach somewhat did not say it was (30km/s). It said that standard MAC fires 30,000 meters per second. Unless 30km/s is actually 30,000 meters per second, then my bad.

Here's proof:

Halo: Fall of Reach (Reprint issue) Page 130:



The lights on the bridge dimmed and the Commonwealth shuddered. The MAC bolt launched through the space-- a red hot metal slug moving at thirty thousand meters per second.


So if you say that 30 megaton nuke mines was probably more powerful as it's in space? then it means that 64 Kt of MAC is completely useless against shields that can withstand more than 30 Mt. It doesn't make sense at all.



[Edited on 07.16.2011 3:49 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2011 3:44 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: anton1792
I am sure that 64 Kt comes from the Fall of Reach. (30km/s) Where did you hear that Reach retonned something?

The 30Mt HAVOK in Ghosts of Onyx (I think it was) didn't just destroy the ships, it vaporised them. I think that implies that far more energy was used than was necessary to render the vessels inoperable.


What? My newest (reprint) issue of Fall of Reach somewhat did not say it was (30km/s). It said that standard MAC fires 30,000 meters per second. Unless 30km/s is actually 30,000 meters per second, then my bad.




30km/s is the same as 30,000 meters per second.

  • 07.16.2011 3:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: anton1792
I am sure that 64 Kt comes from the Fall of Reach. (30km/s) Where did you hear that Reach retonned something?

The 30Mt HAVOK in Ghosts of Onyx (I think it was) didn't just destroy the ships, it vaporised them. I think that implies that far more energy was used than was necessary to render the vessels inoperable.


What? My newest (reprint) issue of Fall of Reach somewhat did not say it was (30km/s). It said that standard MAC fires 30,000 meters per second. Unless 30km/s is actually 30,000 meters per second, then my bad.




30km/s is the same as 30,000 meters per second.


Oh, I understand. But it doesn't make sense since 64 Kt of MAC aren't worth crap against shields that are probably capable of withstanding over 30 Mt.

It's only logical to see that standard MAC's highest yield would be 10 Mt as seeing it takes three MAC hits to drop shields. (only speaking for average Covenant ships such as CSS Battlecruiser, Destroyers, Frigates, etc) Not against Assault Carriers, Super Carriers and Super Cruisers, which takes more than 3 MAC hits to bring shields down.

  • 07.16.2011 4:05 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: raganok99
Posted by: anton1792
I am sure that 64 Kt comes from the Fall of Reach. (30km/s) Where did you hear that Reach retonned something?

The 30Mt HAVOK in Ghosts of Onyx (I think it was) didn't just destroy the ships, it vaporised them. I think that implies that far more energy was used than was necessary to render the vessels inoperable.


What? My newest (reprint) issue of Fall of Reach somewhat did not say it was (30km/s). It said that standard MAC fires 30,000 meters per second. Unless 30km/s is actually 30,000 meters per second, then my bad.

Here's proof:

Halo: Fall of Reach (Reprint issue) Page 130:



The lights on the bridge dimmed and the Commonwealth shuddered. The MAC bolt launched through the space-- a red hot metal slug moving at thirty thousand meters per second.


30km/s is 30'000 m/s...

This rant of yours here is completely pointless.

Posted by: raganok99
So if you say that 30 megaton nuke mines was probably more powerful as it's in space? then it means that 64 Kt of MAC is completely useless against shields that can withstand more than 30 Mt. It doesn't make sense at all.

I never said anything about the relationship between explosives and space. I said that the 30Mt vaporised the ships in question, which implies that far more energy was used than was necessary. The shields were overloaded, and then the ship's molecular structure disintegrated.

If Covenant ship shields required 3 MACs (192kt) to break, then there is an extra 29'808 kt spilling over to the ships hull. Of course not all of that will impact the ship as it spreads out in all directions, but the hull will still be exposed to a crap load of radiation, apparently enough to vaporise the ships in question.

Where are you getting the idea that the shields can withstand 30Mt from anyway? At the battle of Onyx, Battle Group Stalingrad used 30Mt Hornet mines that destroyed 12 ships and damaged 4 others.

[Edited on 07.16.2011 4:12 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2011 4:11 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: raganok99
Posted by: anton1792
I am sure that 64 Kt comes from the Fall of Reach. (30km/s) Where did you hear that Reach retonned something?

The 30Mt HAVOK in Ghosts of Onyx (I think it was) didn't just destroy the ships, it vaporised them. I think that implies that far more energy was used than was necessary to render the vessels inoperable.


What? My newest (reprint) issue of Fall of Reach somewhat did not say it was (30km/s). It said that standard MAC fires 30,000 meters per second. Unless 30km/s is actually 30,000 meters per second, then my bad.

Here's proof:

Halo: Fall of Reach (Reprint issue) Page 130:



The lights on the bridge dimmed and the Commonwealth shuddered. The MAC bolt launched through the space-- a red hot metal slug moving at thirty thousand meters per second.


30km/s is 30'000 m/s...

This rant of yours here is completely pointless.

Posted by: raganok99
So if you say that 30 megaton nuke mines was probably more powerful as it's in space? then it means that 64 Kt of MAC is completely useless against shields that can withstand more than 30 Mt. It doesn't make sense at all.

I never said anything about the relationship between explosives and space. I said that the 30Mt vaporised the ships in question, which implies that far more energy was used than was necessary. The shields were overloaded, and then the ship's molecular structure disintegrated.

If Covenant ship shields required 3 MACs (192kt) to break, then there is an extra 29'808 kt spilling over to the ships hull. Of course not all of that will impact the ship as it spreads out in all directions, but the hull will still be exposed to a crap load of radiation, apparently enough to vaporise the ships in question.

Where are you getting the idea that the shields can withstand 30Mt from anyway? At the battle of Onyx, Battle Group Stalingrad used 30Mt Hornet mines that destroyed 12 ships and damaged 4 others.


That part with ghosts of onyx is where I got idea that Covenant shields withstanding less or more than 30 Mt before getting destroyed.

May I ask you to show direct quote from Ghosts of Onyx describing 30 Mt mines vaporizing entire twelve ships?

[Edited on 07.16.2011 4:26 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2011 4:18 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: raganok99
That part with ghosts of onyx is where I got idea that Covenant shields withstanding less or more than 30 Mt.

They cannot more or less withstand 30 Mt if their shields are stripped away and their hulls vaporised. That is far more energy than is required to breach their shields.

If they more or less withstood it, then they would have no shields and maybe only minor hull damage. 12 were vaporised completely, with only 4 emerging from the aftermath crippled. Those four were probably at the outmost edge of the blast radius.

  • 07.16.2011 4:27 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: raganok99
May I ask you to show direct quote from Ghosts of Onyx describing 30 Mt mines vaporizing entire twelve ships?


Page 326
The enemy forces still outnumbered them sixteen ships to their four.


Page 330
Inside this silver confetti, however, larger shimmering patches resolved: The energy shields of four surviving Covenant destroyers.


16 - 4 = 12

  • 07.16.2011 4:34 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: raganok99
That part with ghosts of onyx is where I got idea that Covenant shields withstanding less or more than 30 Mt.

They cannot more or less withstand 30 Mt if their shields are stripped away and their hulls vaporised. That is far more energy than is required to breach their shields.

If they more or less withstood it, then they would have no shields and maybe only minor hull damage. 12 were vaporised completely, with only 4 emerging from the aftermath crippled. Those four were probably at the outmost edge of the blast radius.


Ah, I understand now.

  • 07.16.2011 4:37 PM PDT