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Subject: So, does Halo have a Canon?

Life?
I have the internet and Doctor Who; i don't need a life.

well, obviously it has a Canon, but what i mean is, does it have a strict 'official' canon, like Star Trek for instance, or is it more of a loose, fan-dependent thing like Doctor Who?

  • 07.16.2011 4:36 PM PDT

Sangheili Major: "Brute ships. Staggered line! Shipmaster, they outnumber us, three-to-one!"

Rtas 'Vadum: "Then it is an even fight. All Cruisers, fire at will! Burn their mongrel hides!"

Hell yeah it has it's strict, official canon. C:

  • 07.16.2011 6:15 PM PDT


Posted by: Levian Nher
Hell yeah it has it's strict, official canon. C:


Lol, it has anything but a strict canon.

  • 07.16.2011 6:28 PM PDT

No u


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Levian Nher
Hell yeah it has it's strict, official canon. C:


Lol, it has anything but a strict canon.


Seriously. Look at the differences between Halo Reach and Halo Fall of Reach. Big canon differences in my opinion.

  • 07.16.2011 6:32 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

It sure does. In fact Bungie (now 343i) has a Halo Bible which is basically a binder that weighs over 10 pounds which has everything about the Halo Universe inside of it, and is the official canon for the Halo franchise period.

  • 07.16.2011 6:44 PM PDT

"Once Bungie takes over the world, The Marty Army will take over Bungie and then we'll really have some fun."
-Marty O'Donnell

"Condemnant quod non intellegunt."

Make Bungie.net More Enjoyable: Read & Follow

There is an absolute and objective standard that is the true Halo canon, but it is not always apparent what that is. The more experienced you are with the visible canon, the more easily you will be able to tell between the true Halo canon and what is not canon. (If I elaborated on the latter objects, I'd be subjected to the vitriolic diatribes of relativist thinkers who blindly accept canon as they are told, so I'll withhold those comments in this thread.)

  • 07.16.2011 6:45 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein


Posted by: Doctor Jensen

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Levian Nher
Hell yeah it has it's strict, official canon. C:


Lol, it has anything but a strict canon.


Seriously. Look at the differences between Halo Reach and Halo Fall of Reach. Big canon differences in my opinion.

Not really. There are some retcons, but I've made a thread on the Universe forum which has a timeline which unifies the two with the least amount of contradictions.

  • 07.16.2011 6:45 PM PDT

Strict canon?

It used to be...until that abomination of a game happened.

But oh well, you can always be a sheep like the guy above.

  • 07.16.2011 6:48 PM PDT

Posted by: Levian Nher
Hell yeah it has it's strict, official canon. C:


This made me giggle.

  • 07.16.2011 7:05 PM PDT

No u


Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Posted by: Doctor Jensen

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Levian Nher
Hell yeah it has it's strict, official canon. C:


Lol, it has anything but a strict canon.


Seriously. Look at the differences between Halo Reach and Halo Fall of Reach. Big canon differences in my opinion.

Not really. There are some retcons, but I've made a thread on the Universe forum which has a timeline which unifies the two with the least amount of contradictions.



Yes, I understand it is just some retcons. I was only pointing out some of the contradictions is all. But I do believe that Reach and TFoR do work out, in a way.

  • 07.16.2011 7:36 PM PDT


Posted by: paulmarv
There is an absolute and objective standard that is the true Halo canon, but it is not always apparent what that is. The more experienced you are with the visible canon, the more easily you will be able to tell between the true Halo canon and what is not canon. (If I elaborated on the latter objects, I'd be subjected to the vitriolic diatribes of relativist thinkers who blindly accept canon as they are told, so I'll withhold those comments in this thread.)


No offense meant at all, Paul, but would it kill you to type up your posts in plain, ordinary English and not legal jargon, I want to understand what you're saying, but I can never truly make heads or tails of it because it's way too hard to understand (and I doubt I'm the only one).

Posted by: BlueRuby2k9
Lol, it has anything but a strict canon.


What exactly do you mean? There is a definite order to the canon and how various sources rank up on it. I don't know whether it could be described as strict or not, but there is definitely and established order to Halo and its canon.

The games are the primary source of canon and always come first.
Books are second.
Marketing and PR materials are third.
And new outranks old.

All of these only apply however to when there are conflicts between sources.

  • 07.16.2011 7:57 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: paulmarv
There is an absolute and objective standard that is the true Halo canon, but it is not always apparent what that is. The more experienced you are with the visible canon, the more easily you will be able to tell between the true Halo canon and what is not canon. (If I elaborated on the latter objects, I'd be subjected to the vitriolic diatribes of relativist thinkers who blindly accept canon as they are told, so I'll withhold those comments in this thread.)


No offense meant at all, Paul, but would it kill you to type up your posts in plain, ordinary English and not legal jargon, I want to understand what you're saying, but I can never truly make heads or tails of it because it's way too hard to understand (and I doubt I'm the only one).


In layman's terms I think he's saying that there is a pattern to how Halo canon is sorted out. But only those very familiar with the canon can work out how and where things in canon fit.

  • 07.16.2011 8:01 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
But oh well, you can always be a sheep like the guy above.


Just leave.

  • 07.16.2011 8:14 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: paulmarv
There is an absolute and objective standard that is the true Halo canon, but it is not always apparent what that is. The more experienced you are with the visible canon, the more easily you will be able to tell between the true Halo canon and what is not canon. (If I elaborated on the latter objects, I'd be subjected to the vitriolic diatribes of relativist thinkers who blindly accept canon as they are told, so I'll withhold those comments in this thread.)


No offense meant at all, Paul, but would it kill you to type up your posts in plain, ordinary English and not legal jargon, I want to understand what you're saying, but I can never truly make heads or tails of it because it's way too hard to understand (and I doubt I'm the only one).


In layman's terms I think he's saying that there is a pattern to how Halo canon is sorted out. But only those very familiar with the canon can work out how and where things in canon fit.


Well that's certainly true at least in part. I got the reading (and adding in what I got from some of his other posts) that he was saying canon is something completely abstract and no one can officially declare something canon or not. Which would be in error...seeing as canon is whatever the story writer's say :/

  • 07.16.2011 8:16 PM PDT

"Once Bungie takes over the world, The Marty Army will take over Bungie and then we'll really have some fun."
-Marty O'Donnell

"Condemnant quod non intellegunt."

Make Bungie.net More Enjoyable: Read & Follow

Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: paulmarv
There is an absolute and objective standard that is the true Halo canon, but it is not always apparent what that is. The more experienced you are with the visible canon, the more easily you will be able to tell between the true Halo canon and what is not canon. (If I elaborated on the latter objects, I'd be subjected to the vitriolic diatribes of relativist thinkers who blindly accept canon as they are told, so I'll withhold those comments in this thread.)


No offense meant at all, Paul, but would it kill you to type up your posts in plain, ordinary English and not legal jargon, I want to understand what you're saying, but I can never truly make heads or tails of it because it's way too hard to understand (and I doubt I'm the only one).

I believe that posts like the one you quoted ought to be typed up in the most understandable and concise mode of the English language possible, and I just don't understand how you think my post used anything other than ordinary English. Please help me understand your accusation. Let's break down my post to see where you could possibly find legal jargon.

There is an absolute and objective standard that is the true Halo canon, but it is not always apparent what that is.
The only words perhaps not known by an average 1st grade student are "absolute", "objective", and "apparent". These words are simple, commonly used in everyday conversational dialogue, and have no more concise or more understandable synonyms that I can think of.

The more experienced you are with the visible canon, the more easily you will be able to tell between the true Halo canon and what is not canon.
This sentence sounds so simple that I would expect to be accused of sounding half-witted than ostentatious. I could have written "The magnitude of one's familiarity with tangible canon is directly proportional to his ability to discern between those true and false canonical statements" and captured the same meaning, but I chose words more general and simple so that more people would be willing to understand what I was trying to say.

(If I elaborated on the latter objects, I'd be subjected to the vitriolic diatribes of relativist thinkers who blindly accept canon as they are told, so I'll withhold those comments in this thread.)
The parentheses imply that the contained words are not essential parts of my post but are a side thought; even still, I would be hard pressed to find words that match the level of contempt Relativists for logical argumentation about this stuff.

On topic...

You say that canon is whatever the writers say. I do not understand how you can entrust your beliefs to the whims of this mysterious group called "the writers". Are they God? I have written this post - am I not a writer? Aren't you a writer? Then are you saying that canon is whatever you want it to be?

You must at some point draw a line, for the sake of naming and words, that defines the identity of a group of things. Halo is certainly the story found in Bungie's Halo Trilogy - you can call Bungie the "writers" of that story if you really want. I suppose it makes no difference. But since you can call whatever you want by whatever name you want, your tolerance of anybody deemed "official" by 343 to inject their personal imagination into what you consider canon eliminates the meaning of the word "Halo" and turns it into a word that refers to a large, incoherent body. I am trying to say that there is a certain body that is the real Halo canon. I might not always be able to say surely what it is; I know for instances that the first three Halo games are part of the true canon, but it isn't always that clear. Point is, we can't just go running out choosing and picking what we feel and think is canon; it is already determined by the original meaning of the word "Halo". Sure, you could call something else "Halo", but it doesn't make the two things the same. See what I'm saying?

  • 07.19.2011 10:06 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

To my understanding there is a hierarchy as follows:

Game storyline/events.
Game supplimental material (game manuals).
Book events.
Promotional material (trailers/marketing etc).
Game Mechanics.

New has higher priority than old.

All of the above is only relevant in the event of a contradiction, if there is no contradiction it's assumed to be 100% correct.

I'm not entirely sure where the 'legends' cartoons fit in, I'd imagine their stories are more canon than their depiction as there is quite a lot of artistic licence taken.

  • 07.19.2011 10:18 AM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
Strict canon?

It used to be...until that abomination of a game happened.

But oh well, you can always be a sheep like the guy above.


Agreed

In my view of this list of how canon works in Halo:

1.) Game storyline and events
2.) Books- events, descriptions, etc/Halo comics
3.) Encyclopedia, etc
4.) Marketing materials
5.) Game mechanics

(Also, new canon overrides old canon. Sloppy move made by Bungie if you ask me.)

[Edited on 07.19.2011 10:38 AM PDT]

  • 07.19.2011 10:35 AM PDT
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I like how you assume Star Trek or any other series has some strict unwavering canon, and that writers don't just make up most of the episode-by-episode plot points as they go along.

  • 07.19.2011 11:11 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Paul you need to calm down and stop coming off as a douchbag, like really

  • 07.19.2011 12:55 PM PDT

Wake me, when you need me.

That's a stupid question. of course it does.

  • 07.19.2011 1:19 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

I love how your coup is a Zygon. :P

  • 07.19.2011 3:27 PM PDT

All the books games and comics are canon, with the only questionable area with unresolved issues that I can think of being the battle for Reach. That could be cleared up in the future, however, but for now it's hard to say exactly what the canon explanation for Halo: Reach is.

  • 07.19.2011 4:29 PM PDT


Posted by: CultMiester4000
well, obviously it has a Canon, but what i mean is, does it have a strict 'official' canon, like Star Trek for instance, or is it more of a loose, fan-dependent thing like Doctor Who?


It has both and it's not very good Canon and the fanbase is a hell of a lot worse then WoW's.

  • 07.19.2011 4:35 PM PDT

If a solid canon constitutes a story that contradicts itself at every turn, then yes.

  • 07.19.2011 4:59 PM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: GanonSmash
All the books games and comics are canon, with the only questionable area with unresolved issues that I can think of being the battle for Reach. That could be cleared up in the future, however, but for now it's hard to say exactly what the canon explanation for Halo: Reach is.


As it stands the battle of Reach followed the events described in Halo: Reach, where there is no explicit contradiction events from the book The Fall of Reach are also true. In the event of a contradiction between sources the game would be considered a more accurate representation of events than the book. (Game mechanics/engine limitations aside, of course.)

  • 07.19.2011 4:59 PM PDT

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