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Subject: Artifact at Sigma Octanus IV....

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Really? What exactly don't I understand? Am I not connect some kind of line that leads to the invalidation of all possible ideas? As for post H3 events I doubt even you know for sure what can possibly happen. In fact I doubt you even really are open to them anyways. At this point I see no way that the events that occurred at sig. have become useless thanks to Reach. Sure Reach at many points to be fixed...and some decent WTFs but this IS NOT one of them and is really only a problem based on your personal preference.


So wiping away the reason Cortana found Halo in the beginning with no explanation isn't a problem?


Did it really wipe away the reason Cortana found it? No not really as:

1. Cortana still found it

2.It is was random (As she had no clue where it'll lead)

3.Cortana (the orignal) had been examining the same thing the clone was before being split.

4.If anything we have no clue what exactly the research gain did, it was said to have a great importance be honestly it was us who made the leap to IT MUST BE HALO!!! Really it could had just allowed us to better understand forerunner tech.

I'll finish later...

  • 07.17.2011 12:18 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: L KOLIEAN L

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Really? What exactly don't I understand? Am I not connect some kind of line that leads to the invalidation of all possible ideas? As for post H3 events I doubt even you know for sure what can possibly happen. In fact I doubt you even really are open to them anyways. At this point I see no way that the events that occurred at sig. have become useless thanks to Reach. Sure Reach at many points to be fixed...and some decent WTFs but this IS NOT one of them and is really only a problem based on your personal preference.


So wiping away the reason Cortana found Halo in the beginning with no explanation isn't a problem?


Did it really wipe away the reason Cortana found it? No not really as:

1. Cortana still found it

2.It is was random (As she had no clue where it'll lead)

3.Cortana (the orignal) had been examining the same thing the clone was before being split.

4.If anything we have no clue what exactly the research gain did, it was said to have a great importance be honestly it was us who made the leap to IT MUST BE HALO!!! Really it could had just allowed us to better understand forerunner tech.

I'll finish later...


The books stated the SO artifact had a map to Halo, we are never told what exactly the BD artifact did, some speculate it does what the SO artifact did. But then what is the importance of the SO artifact? It's a whole piece of Halo lore gone.

  • 07.17.2011 12:22 AM PDT

I am invisible, understand, simply because people refuse to see me.
--Ralph Ellison

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
If anything, the Sigma Octanus artifact could've made the calculations of the Babd Catha artifact more accurate.

Yes, I suppose so, but it still doesn't make a lot of sense. The coordinates were on the Sigma Octanus (SO) artifact, why was it necessary to have the Reach artifact now?

Bungie wanted to tie up CE and Reach so badly that they completely destroyed this point in the canon. I thought my unified timeline would help solve things, but this is just inexplicable to be honest.

It does seem like a horrible retcon huh? Still, using both or one as a cross reference could be a smart move. Halsey HOPED the BD artifact would work, using the SO artifact and seeing it matches with the BD artifiact, or vice versa, could work.


That is definitely one of the most depressing retcons I have observed in trying to fit Reach with canon. It makes sense, but just... I mean... Why? Just so unnecessary.

  • 07.17.2011 12:35 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: KoO 101
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
If anything, the Sigma Octanus artifact could've made the calculations of the Babd Catha artifact more accurate.

Yes, I suppose so, but it still doesn't make a lot of sense. The coordinates were on the Sigma Octanus (SO) artifact, why was it necessary to have the Reach artifact now?

Bungie wanted to tie up CE and Reach so badly that they completely destroyed this point in the canon. I thought my unified timeline would help solve things, but this is just inexplicable to be honest.

It does seem like a horrible retcon huh? Still, using both or one as a cross reference could be a smart move. Halsey HOPED the BD artifact would work, using the SO artifact and seeing it matches with the BD artifiact, or vice versa, could work.


That is definitely one of the most depressing retcons I have observed in trying to fit Reach with canon. It makes sense, but just... I mean... Why? Just so unnecessary.


Were it so easy.

  • 07.17.2011 12:37 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Really? How does the data recovered by Reach take away from the randomness of finding Halo?! What did it suddenly announce LOOK HERE! THERES A HUGE RING SHAPE WORLD WITH PARASITES AND MYSTERIES AND ALL THIS BLAM!!! Seriously now I'm just facepalming at the -blam!- you guys complain about...this is almost as bad as that guy complaining about the AR.


The AR guy was a nit picky fool who choose to whine about something that had no adverse effect on the story as a whole.

The discussion about the Sigma Octanus artifact and its relation to the Sword Base artifact have everything to do with trying to understand the thought process behind taking a significant plot device (SO rock) that is instrumental in leading to a significant event (Halo), and then introducing a brand new plot device (SBA) that (at a glance) nullifies a major plot point already established.

It's rather inconsistent and abrupt storytelling. Now while I personally feel that both objects being needed together in order to achieve the same end point is a perfectly fine explanation (to those that can connect the dots) and one that I personally feel is how things went, the mere fact that people (to this day) still question this over and over stands testament as to how rough of an addition it is in getting a good grasp of the overall story.

Everything is still maintained as you state, but now it requires imagination (in which arises the problem of everyone coming up with their own version, or none at all) stuck in-between to find a way to make both fit. It was unnecessary fluff to something already well established.


[Edited on 07.17.2011 12:41 AM PDT]

  • 07.17.2011 12:40 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
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Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Really? How does the data recovered by Reach take away from the randomness of finding Halo?! What did it suddenly announce LOOK HERE! THERES A HUGE RING SHAPE WORLD WITH PARASITES AND MYSTERIES AND ALL THIS BLAM!!! Seriously now I'm just facepalming at the -blam!- you guys complain about...this is almost as bad as that guy complaining about the AR.


The AR guy was a nit picky fool who choose to whine about something that had no adverse effect on the story as a whole.

The discussion about the Sigma Octanus artifact and its relation to the Sword Base artifact have everything to do with trying to understand the thought process behind taking a significant plot device (SO rock) that is instrumental in leading to a significant event (Halo), and then introducing a brand new plot device (SBA) that (at a glance) nullifies a major plot point already established.

It's rather inconsistent and abrupt storytelling. Now while I personally feel that both objects being needed together in order to achieve the same end point is a perfectly fine explanation (to those that can connect the dots) and one that I personally feel is how things went, the mere fact that people (to this day) still question this over and over stands testament as to how rough of an addition it is in getting a good grasp of the overall story.

Everything is still maintained as you state, but now it requires imagination (in which arises the problem of everyone coming up with their own version, or none at all) stuck in-between to find a way to make both fit. It was unnecessary fluff to something already well established.


Exactly, my problem is just that people are using it to nitpick. Also personally I hate how Halsey chimes in at the end...how does she know what the hell happens? As it stands I really do think that the SO was reinforced by the BO, how idk. I do doubt that it was in the way people make it seem. I believe the events both provided the steps needed to make the Halo discovery but really it came about from two big different ways.

Honestly (and I still need to find time to write the damn thing) I personally have some questions I think we really need to focus on and I also have a few theories on some important aspects of the game and book...but that's for later.

As for Decep, dude I'm not arguing with you. I'm voicing my opinions and your causing me to discuss them. We both know that none of us is going to change their beliefs to why are we even doing this? Don't get me wrong, if you want we can go on forever but really I don't even care at this point. I think the whole "THE EVENTS OF REACH RUIN THE IMPORTANCE OF AN IMPORTANT PLOTLINE!" argument is rather kneejerk and really isn't valid.

Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.

[Edited on 07.17.2011 1:02 AM PDT]

  • 07.17.2011 12:59 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.


You say it isn't an issue, I say it is yet provide an explanation. We are not on the same side.

  • 07.17.2011 1:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.


You say it isn't an issue, I say it is yet provide an explanation. We are not on the same side.


it is an issue until the situation is better explained, we shouldn't be the ones trying to make the game fit. not to mention the fact halsey was clearly talking about hoping to find something to change the war, which is not how the find of how was.

  • 07.17.2011 1:11 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
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-RuN...-


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.


You say it isn't an issue, I say it is yet provide an explanation. We are not on the same side.


it is an issue until the situation is better explained, we shouldn't be the ones trying to make the game fit. not to mention the fact halsey was clearly talking about hoping to find something to change the war, which is not how the find of how was.


I'm with the above, I'm not saying it isn't an issue so much that is isn't as big off one as ppl seem to make it. I see as more of a headscratching moment then anything else. I think that both discoveries had different impacts to how the story came out and both lead to Halo BECAUSE of the importance of how those to point referred to each other. Now how they connected we can only guess...Am I going around in circles?

  • 07.17.2011 1:17 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: L KOLIEAN L

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.


You say it isn't an issue, I say it is yet provide an explanation. We are not on the same side.


it is an issue until the situation is better explained, we shouldn't be the ones trying to make the game fit. not to mention the fact halsey was clearly talking about hoping to find something to change the war, which is not how the find of how was.


I'm with the above, I'm not saying it isn't an issue so much that is isn't as big off one as ppl seem to make it. I see as more of a headscratching moment then anything else. I think that both discoveries had different impacts to how the story came out and both lead to Halo BECAUSE of the importance of how those to point referred to each other. Now how they connected we can only guess...Am I going around in circles?


It is kinda a big issue since it directly impacts the story in a BIG way.

  • 07.17.2011 1:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: L KOLIEAN L

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.


You say it isn't an issue, I say it is yet provide an explanation. We are not on the same side.


it is an issue until the situation is better explained, we shouldn't be the ones trying to make the game fit. not to mention the fact halsey was clearly talking about hoping to find something to change the war, which is not how the find of how was.


I'm with the above, I'm not saying it isn't an issue so much that is isn't as big off one as ppl seem to make it. I see as more of a headscratching moment then anything else. I think that both discoveries had different impacts to how the story came out and both lead to Halo BECAUSE of the importance of how those to point referred to each other. Now how they connected we can only guess...Am I going around in circles?


again it throws the entire essence of finding halo out the window. if halsey didn't give that little speech i would agree but the fact is she gave it and that is the cause for concern.

They were clearly banking on finding some alien artifact to change the war, when in reality cortana pulled to coordinates out of her ass.

and slasher wasn't supporting you.

[Edited on 07.17.2011 1:21 AM PDT]

  • 07.17.2011 1:20 AM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: StealthSlasher2
Now while I personally feel that both objects being needed together in order to achieve the same end point is a perfectly fine explanation (to those that can connect the dots) and one that I personally feel is how things went


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I believe the Sigma Octanus artifact in conjunction with the Babd Catha artifact helped give Cortana the star chart to Alpha Halo. Works for me personally.


That's how I've always seen it too. Journal sort of gives off that impression, that both were used in conjunction.

  • 07.17.2011 1:22 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
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-RuN...-


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: L KOLIEAN L

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.


You say it isn't an issue, I say it is yet provide an explanation. We are not on the same side.


it is an issue until the situation is better explained, we shouldn't be the ones trying to make the game fit. not to mention the fact halsey was clearly talking about hoping to find something to change the war, which is not how the find of how was.


I'm with the above, I'm not saying it isn't an issue so much that is isn't as big off one as ppl seem to make it. I see as more of a headscratching moment then anything else. I think that both discoveries had different impacts to how the story came out and both lead to Halo BECAUSE of the importance of how those to point referred to each other. Now how they connected we can only guess...Am I going around in circles?


again it throws the entire essence of finding halo out the window. if halsey didn't give that little speech i would agree but the fact is she gave it and that is the cause for concern.

They were clearly banking on finding some alien artifact to change the war, when in reality cortana pulled to coordinates out of her ass.

and slasher wasn't supporting you.


If I was going to throw anything out it would be that speech, it was clearly made to close out the story for the people not versed in the series lore. The point would remain that while they felt that someone was there it still doesn't mean that it was known what they'd find. Instead they most likely felt that if a (More advance then your enemy and very important to said enemy) alien race put down some coordinates to some random location, and you happen to find yourself needing a place to run. Why not go to that important place? The BO would push Cortana to definitely take that leap.

Also can we get the section of the book where she talks about the codes (the updated book) I want to read that over because I only have the first copy.

  • 07.17.2011 1:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: L KOLIEAN L

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.[/quote]

You say it isn't an issue, I say it is yet provide an explanation. We are not on the same side.[/quote]

it is an issue until the situation is better explained, we shouldn't be the ones trying to make the game fit. not to mention the fact halsey was clearly talking about hoping to find something to change the war, which is not how the find of how was.


I'm with the above, I'm not saying it isn't an issue so much that is isn't as big off one as ppl seem to make it. I see as more of a headscratching moment then anything else. I think that both discoveries had different impacts to how the story came out and both lead to Halo BECAUSE of the importance of how those to point referred to each other. Now how they connected we can only guess...Am I going around in circles?


again it throws the entire essence of finding halo out the window. if halsey didn't give that little speech i would agree but the fact is she gave it and that is the cause for concern.

They were clearly banking on finding some alien artifact to change the war, when in reality cortana pulled to coordinates out of her ass.

and slasher wasn't supporting you.


If I was going to throw anything out it would be that speech, it was clearly made to close out the story for the people not versed in the series lore. The point would remain that while they felt that someone was there it still doesn't mean that it was known what they'd find. Instead they most likely felt that if a (More advance then your enemy and very important to said enemy) alien race put down some coordinates to some random location, and you happen to find yourself needing a place to run. Why not go to that important place? The BO would push Cortana to definitely take that leap.

Also can we get the section of the book where she talks about the codes (the updated book) I want to read that over because I only have the first copy.


that part of the story if any part of the story at all didn't need to be dumbed down so people can understand it. Halo was pure chance, hell opogo had a whole discussion on HOW the rock even ended on the planet to start with.

Chance,luck, synchrons; thats all it is.

You do understand that there were suppose to be separatist hunters,jackals,etc but bungie didn't put them in because "they thought it would confuse the common person" which i don't understand because my 5 year old cousin understand most of the concepts better than 90 percent of the people on this forum.

and the codes haven't changed whatsoever

  • 07.17.2011 1:34 AM PDT

I don't like how Halsey says that the information in the artifact is a game changer, and how her monologue claims that they shattered the Covenant's resolve by uncovering Halo's secrets. I mean, sure, Halo certainly was a game changer, but it was pure luck that it wasn't a bad change, such as the Flood rampaging over the galaxy, or the Covies destroying the galaxy.

And Halo didn't shatter the resolve; Truth's plan to replace the Brutes with the Elites did.

  • 07.17.2011 1:34 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
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Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
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-RuN...-


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: L KOLIEAN L

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.[/quote]

You say it isn't an issue, I say it is yet provide an explanation. We are not on the same side.[/quote]

it is an issue until the situation is better explained, we shouldn't be the ones trying to make the game fit. not to mention the fact halsey was clearly talking about hoping to find something to change the war, which is not how the find of how was.


I'm with the above, I'm not saying it isn't an issue so much that is isn't as big off one as ppl seem to make it. I see as more of a headscratching moment then anything else. I think that both discoveries had different impacts to how the story came out and both lead to Halo BECAUSE of the importance of how those to point referred to each other. Now how they connected we can only guess...Am I going around in circles?


again it throws the entire essence of finding halo out the window. if halsey didn't give that little speech i would agree but the fact is she gave it and that is the cause for concern.

They were clearly banking on finding some alien artifact to change the war, when in reality cortana pulled to coordinates out of her ass.

and slasher wasn't supporting you.


If I was going to throw anything out it would be that speech, it was clearly made to close out the story for the people not versed in the series lore. The point would remain that while they felt that someone was there it still doesn't mean that it was known what they'd find. Instead they most likely felt that if a (More advance then your enemy and very important to said enemy) alien race put down some coordinates to some random location, and you happen to find yourself needing a place to run. Why not go to that important place? The BO would push Cortana to definitely take that leap.

Also can we get the section of the book where she talks about the codes (the updated book) I want to read that over because I only have the first copy.


that part of the story if any part of the story at all didn't need to be dumbed down so people can understand it. Halo was pure chance, hell opogo had a whole discussion on HOW the rock even ended on the planet to start with.

Chance,luck, synchrons; thats all it is.

You do understand that there were suppose to be separatist hunters,jackals,etc but bungie didn't put them in because "they thought it would confuse the common person" which i don't understand because my 5 year old cousin understand most of the concepts better than 90 percent of the people on this forum.

and the codes haven't changed whatsoever


Hmm okay so she still has the same dialog then, that's good for me then. As for the luck bit your completely right and honestly that is the only thing that annoys me about Reach was how that last speech tries to sell the importance of Nobles actions. Right now I'm working on that rewrite I talked about before and it's going to be awhile before I finish any of my projects so yeah....

  • 07.17.2011 1:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

it was a eulogy, not a big deal.

  • 07.17.2011 1:46 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
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Exactly but it doesn't stop ppl from finding problems with it, and it calls into question some other things. It's things like these that lead to the whole Canon debate/wars we had for the last year...a year man WTH?

  • 07.17.2011 1:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Exactly but it doesn't stop ppl from finding problems with it, and it calls into question some other things. It's things like these that lead to the whole Canon debate/wars we had for the last year...a year man WTH?


anybody with a brain knows that eulogies don't mean a damn thing.

Isn't the narrator for desperate housewifes dead? it is the same difference.

  • 07.17.2011 1:56 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-

Hey, how many times have people asked rather stupid questions to things everyone know. Brain power drops on the internet for some reason. Not saying that I take that bit seriously, I just think it wasn't needed for exactly the reason you stated. It served little true propose, I really only brought it up to make a point about how stuff like that can help create these argueements about the game.

[Edited on 07.17.2011 2:02 AM PDT]

  • 07.17.2011 2:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

agreed

  • 07.17.2011 2:05 AM PDT
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This will probably get chewed out bu one of you "HIGHER" ups' but hey her goes.
The SO artifact was discovered to be a star system map point to halo yes?.

maybe the reason a segment of cortana was researching the reach artifact is beacause its a data base. and would allow them to find halo quicker. pretty sure it would take a even short amount of time to visually or sensor check a gas giant. and the SO was made a fair few thousand years ago so she used the reach data base to take inot account thousands of years of interstellar drift. or maybe find a primer/lexicon/rosetta stone of sort to make sure she had decrypted the artifacts coordinates properly otherwise there could be from a few dozen to a few thousand different places they could end up is this a viable explanation?

  • 07.17.2011 7:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: UntowDawn88
This will probably get chewed out bu one of you "HIGHER" ups' but hey her goes.
The SO artifact was discovered to be a star system map point to halo yes?.

maybe the reason a segment of cortana was researching the reach artifact is beacause its a data base. and would allow them to find halo quicker. pretty sure it would take a even short amount of time to visually or sensor check a gas giant. and the SO was made a fair few thousand years ago so she used the reach data base to take inot account thousands of years of interstellar drift. or maybe find a primer/lexicon/rosetta stone of sort to make sure she had decrypted the artifacts coordinates properly otherwise there could be from a few dozen to a few thousand different places they could end up is this a viable explanation?


in the novel she decoded it nearly ASAP and they didn't know what the coordinates were

  • 07.17.2011 8:07 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: L KOLIEAN L

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Really? How does the data recovered by Reach take away from the randomness of finding Halo?! What did it suddenly announce LOOK HERE! THERES A HUGE RING SHAPE WORLD WITH PARASITES AND MYSTERIES AND ALL THIS BLAM!!! Seriously now I'm just facepalming at the -blam!- you guys complain about...this is almost as bad as that guy complaining about the AR.


The AR guy was a nit picky fool who choose to whine about something that had no adverse effect on the story as a whole.

The discussion about the Sigma Octanus artifact and its relation to the Sword Base artifact have everything to do with trying to understand the thought process behind taking a significant plot device (SO rock) that is instrumental in leading to a significant event (Halo), and then introducing a brand new plot device (SBA) that (at a glance) nullifies a major plot point already established.

It's rather inconsistent and abrupt storytelling. Now while I personally feel that both objects being needed together in order to achieve the same end point is a perfectly fine explanation (to those that can connect the dots) and one that I personally feel is how things went, the mere fact that people (to this day) still question this over and over stands testament as to how rough of an addition it is in getting a good grasp of the overall story.

Everything is still maintained as you state, but now it requires imagination (in which arises the problem of everyone coming up with their own version, or none at all) stuck in-between to find a way to make both fit. It was unnecessary fluff to something already well established.


Exactly, my problem is just that people are using it to nitpick. Also personally I hate how Halsey chimes in at the end...how does she know what the hell happens? As it stands I really do think that the SO was reinforced by the BO, how idk. I do doubt that it was in the way people make it seem. I believe the events both provided the steps needed to make the Halo discovery but really it came about from two big different ways.

Honestly (and I still need to find time to write the damn thing) I personally have some questions I think we really need to focus on and I also have a few theories on some important aspects of the game and book...but that's for later.

As for Decep, dude I'm not arguing with you. I'm voicing my opinions and your causing me to discuss them. We both know that none of us is going to change their beliefs to why are we even doing this? Don't get me wrong, if you want we can go on forever but really I don't even care at this point. I think the whole "THE EVENTS OF REACH RUIN THE IMPORTANCE OF AN IMPORTANT PLOTLINE!" argument is rather kneejerk and really isn't valid.

Also if I read the above post you made then you and me are on the flipn same side... or I'm just way to tired. Either way (and this stands for the other thread) I'm not trying to win you over.


I think you've missed my point. I'm trying to say that the events of Reach do take away from the importance of existing plot devices (not just the artifact issue either) set up previously by turning it into a convoluted mess that needs to be deciphered in the first place. It's a rather valid argument at this point in time because of how there's nothing to refute it decisively.

There are all sorts of people invested in the story, and they all have their own stance on it. However, for those seeking a straight answer on things it is simply no longer possible at the moment.

Rather than look at this issue (and others) from the point of personal understanding. Take a few steps back and view the situation as a whole and all the various perspectives put into it. Going back to the artifact example. People such as you or I can go about and see the combination of artifacts as a way to progress the story in regards to using both book and game canon.

However, how did we come to that conclusion? We basically looked at theory. Considered it rather likely, and then leave it at that with no actual proof what so ever as to what we've just said to fill in the gap. Let alone being able to use that theory as a gold standard for people to accept as fact. Just can't be done because ultimately it isn't fact.

Now when you look at it in the inverse point of view you can now see the problem that someone like Cobra has. Using nothing but the hard facts from the game, what we are all told is that the Sword Base artifact was of great importance in finding Halo. That's it. Prior to this, the only bit of information needed was the SO rock all by itself, and it was explained in full that it was all that was required to track down the coordinates of Halo. Suddenly, the SBA comes up from nowhere, and now the game places it as the object to ultimately lead the Chief to Halo.

The SO rock now takes a backseat to the story, and now questions arise as to how a rock that was perfectly sufficient as a plot device to get from point A to point B in a straight line suddenly becomes insufficient to make that point. There's no saying how 'the events of reach ruin the importance of an important plotline' is an invalid argument because as far as the game was concerned it flat out told the audience of the game that the importance of Six's efforts took precedent.

In otherwords, saying something along the lines of what Cobra is saying is a perfectly valid argument. The ability to create theories to wave things away does not disprove that argument in the slightest because there are no facts involved. Regardless of stance on the issue, Reach is canon, but has left so many holes left unfilled because of poor story writing that it justifies the appearance of such "nitpick" threads.

TL;DR: Contructive criticism on how Reach takes away from earlier established plot devices is still a perfectly valid stance because of how Reach's story is full of many holes and unexplained gaps, and at the same time fails to truly connect its events to those previously established plot points. Instead, it forces everyone to come up with their own filler and connections completely on independent and unaware as to how events play out in official canon.

  • 07.17.2011 11:06 AM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Really? What exactly don't I understand? Am I not connect some kind of line that leads to the invalidation of all possible ideas? As for post H3 events I doubt even you know for sure what can possibly happen. In fact I doubt you even really are open to them anyways. At this point I see no way that the events that occurred at sig. have become useless thanks to Reach. Sure Reach at many points to be fixed...and some decent WTFs but this IS NOT one of them and is really only a problem based on your personal preference.

This isn't just a nitpick, it's a big deal. The Battle of Sigma Octanus IV was a major juncture in the canon, and its significance has been significantly reduced with Reach. Did the Battle thus even occur? Obviously it did, since Jacob Keyes is no longer a Commander but a Captain, and that's the battle he gained the rank of Captain from.

I'm not rigid in my views that this has harmed the canon, but until I find some reasonable connection along with some evidence, it's a completely valid concern.

  • 07.17.2011 12:04 PM PDT

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