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Subject: A question about 'Grave Minds'.

"It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri, and the other nearby stars, it will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses, more confident, far-seeing, capable, and prudent. For all our failings, despite our limitations and fallibilities, we humans are capable of greatness."-Carl Sagan

Does each one have their own personality?



  • 07.21.2011 5:10 PM PDT

Do you know what kind of hat I'm wearing?

A party hat; you don't get one. An honor will this party be, a party in your honor, for your honor. Some of Tfear's personal guards are going to be there. You'll be introduced shortly.

Prepare to die.

I'm not entirely sure about it, but I think that there can only be 1 gravemind at the same time. (not counting proto- graveminds)

Their consciousness is transferred, so we battle the same gravemind in halo 2-3 that almost annihilated the forerunners.

  • 07.21.2011 5:22 PM PDT

"It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri, and the other nearby stars, it will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses, more confident, far-seeing, capable, and prudent. For all our failings, despite our limitations and fallibilities, we humans are capable of greatness."-Carl Sagan

It would be funny if the next Gravemind was against infecting life forms.

  • 07.21.2011 5:25 PM PDT

"Hero's Get Remembered, But Legends Never Die. Follow Your Heart, And You Can Never Go Wrong."

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Posted by: H0FFman J
I'm not entirely sure about it, but I think that there can only be 1 gravemind at the same time. (not counting proto- graveminds)

Their consciousness is transferred, so we battle the same gravemind in halo 2-3 that almost annihilated the forerunners.
You sir, are correct. :P

There can only be 1 Gravemind at a time.

However, I've not heard/read anything about the "personality" of the Gravemind being transferred.

[Edited on 07.21.2011 5:52 PM PDT]

  • 07.21.2011 5:51 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

From what we know of the Gravemind it seems to be one consciousness that is somehow stored even when it is destroyed and transferred to the "next" Gravemind. I suppose the more correct way to say that would be to say, the same consciousness is transferred to its newly created body.

  • 07.21.2011 5:56 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
From what we know of the Gravemind it seems to be one consciousness that is somehow stored even when it is destroyed and transferred to the "next" Gravemind. I suppose the more correct way to say that would be to say, the same consciousness is transferred to its newly created body.


The Besterium describes the GM as a Transsentient, so it likely has powers of the mind we can't conceive of (other then the obvious). This could include surviving "death" to be reborn.

  • 07.21.2011 6:00 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Spartan1065
From what we know of the Gravemind it seems to be one consciousness that is somehow stored even when it is destroyed and transferred to the "next" Gravemind. I suppose the more correct way to say that would be to say, the same consciousness is transferred to its newly created body.


The Besterium describes the GM as a Transsentient, so it likely has powers of the mind we can't conceive of (other then the obvious). This could include surviving "death" to be reborn.
Isn't that what I just said?

  • 07.21.2011 6:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Spartan1065
From what we know of the Gravemind it seems to be one consciousness that is somehow stored even when it is destroyed and transferred to the "next" Gravemind. I suppose the more correct way to say that would be to say, the same consciousness is transferred to its newly created body.


The Besterium describes the GM as a Transsentient, so it likely has powers of the mind we can't conceive of (other then the obvious). This could include surviving "death" to be reborn.
Isn't that what I just said?


Reinforcing what you just said by giving evidence presented from canon sources.

  • 07.21.2011 6:05 PM PDT

The Gravemind could be using something similar to the forerunner Domain. This could even be why the forerunner lose access to the domain.

  • 07.21.2011 6:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Schlick15
Posted by: H0FFman J
I'm not entirely sure about it, but I think that there can only be 1 gravemind at the same time. (not counting proto- graveminds)

Their consciousness is transferred, so we battle the same gravemind in halo 2-3 that almost annihilated the forerunners.
You sir, are correct. :P

There can only be 1 Gravemind at a time.



No he isn't, there are 3 accounts of other probably true minds forming while the current gravemind was active. the gravemind we know of is probably more so an infected being than an actual stage of the flood.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Spartan1065
From what we know of the Gravemind it seems to be one consciousness that is somehow stored even when it is destroyed and transferred to the "next" Gravemind. I suppose the more correct way to say that would be to say, the same consciousness is transferred to its newly created body.


The Besterium describes the GM as a Transsentient, so it likely has powers of the mind we can't conceive of (other then the obvious). This could include surviving "death" to be reborn.


Precursors are claimed to be the same thing and if the prisoner is a precursor and gets infected to become the gravemind then that covers that.

And from what it seems the gravemind was only killed when chief activated halo and destroyed the ark. prior to that he had been chilling on installation 5 for eons.

So there is no support for the notion of him dieing and coming back.

Posted by: Colichemarde
The Gravemind could be using something similar to the forerunner Domain. This could even be why the forerunner lose access to the domain.


that was because of medicant bias not the prisoner

[Edited on 07.21.2011 8:57 PM PDT]

  • 07.21.2011 8:54 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Only allowing one Gravemind at a time really seems to go against what they're about, spreading out and infecting as many poor souls they can.

  • 07.21.2011 8:56 PM PDT
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I wouldn't expect them to be too different, if at all. From the bestiarum:

should be considered a single macroorganism instead of a group of individuals or even a group of subsentient individuals controlled by single, or a group of, [transsentient[?]] being(s)

Different Graveminds would be manifestations of the same underlying organism that is the entire flood.

  • 07.21.2011 9:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: opogjijijp
I wouldn't expect them to be too different, if at all. From the bestiarum:

should be considered a single macroorganism instead of a group of individuals or even a group of subsentient individuals controlled by single, or a group of, [transsentient[?]] being(s)

Different Graveminds would be manifestations of the same underlying organism that is the entire flood.


Thank you for the direct quote because that doesn't call them transsentient. that is the closest word in our language to what the forerunners would have said.

Rob also left out the fact the idea of 2 graveminds forming and fusing into a "super gravemind" was also brought up.

tsk tsk tsk.

  • 07.21.2011 9:13 PM PDT

#1 Legendary ODST Firefight Highscore

[UNINTELLIGIBLE > INSUBORDINATION(?)]

In addition, it appears each Gravemind also retains the memories and knowledge of previous Graveminds

Although little data exists from any adequately controlled experiment, data gathered in the field suggests that if a mobile form is removed from the influence of the Gravemind coordinating its group of origin it will revert to a Feral Stage. Insufficient data exists on whether mobile forms of one Gravemind would be influenced by another Gravemind, though logic dictates this would be the case. However, because individual Graveminds are more or less identical and are all striving for the same goal, it is likely that a distinction would be impossible to detect. Quotes from Halowiki reveal memories are passed on and the possibility of multiple Graveminds

  • 07.22.2011 3:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Remorazz
In addition, it appears each Gravemind also retains the memories and knowledge of previous Graveminds

Although little data exists from any adequately controlled experiment, data gathered in the field suggests that if a mobile form is removed from the influence of the Gravemind coordinating its group of origin it will revert to a Feral Stage. Insufficient data exists on whether mobile forms of one Gravemind would be influenced by another Gravemind, though logic dictates this would be the case. However, because individual Graveminds are more or less identical and are all striving for the same goal, it is likely that a distinction would be impossible to detect. Quotes from Halowiki reveal memories are passed on and the possibility of multiple Graveminds


That is complete fan made speculation, i was around during halo 2 when we thought of that idea but now it is more than obvious that the gravemind didn't die.


I hate halopedia and i am going to fix it soon

  • 07.22.2011 7:51 AM PDT

"There is no time for peace. No respite. No forgiveness. There is only WAR!"

i was always under the assumption that the gravemind and the flood were simply a hivemind-esq race. each flood form carrying a small piece of the same mind, keeping a collective consciousness; while allowing each form to act independently of one another. the more flood that gather, the better the creature is able to understand that piece and essentially remember its own memories.

retaining its own personality as long as a single flood organism is able to survive and re-infect more.

so while there could be or have been many at the same time, they were still just an extension of the same organism.

[Edited on 07.22.2011 8:41 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2011 8:40 AM PDT

Posted by: Grey101
No he isn't, there are 3 accounts of other probably true minds forming while the current gravemind was active. the gravemind we know of is probably more so an infected being than an actual stage of the flood.


What three accounts would those be? Keyes in CE, the pilot in the Mona Lisa...and what would be the third? Halo Wars?
To be quite honest I don't think they can be called Graveminds, not in comparison to the Gravemind. Sure they're an intelligence that is controlling the Flood, but they still seem feral and not a rationally thinking being. I agree that there can be more than one mind existing concurrently with the Flood, but there can only be one of the Gravemind (character from the trilogy) at a time, he is vastly different and completely distinct from the others.

Precursors are claimed to be the same thing and if the prisoner is a precursor and gets infected to become the gravemind then that covers that.

And from what it seems the gravemind was only killed when chief activated halo and destroyed the ark. prior to that he had been chilling on installation 5 for eons.

So there is no support for the notion of him dieing and coming back.


Did he die at the Ark? That is the question. Maybe his body was killed, but I don't think it'd be possible to kill the, for lack of a better word, soul of the Gravemind, I think as long as there are Flod about he can make a come back. I think his own lines back up that he can never really be truly killed.

  • 07.22.2011 1:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: Grey101
No he isn't, there are 3 accounts of other probably true minds forming while the current gravemind was active. the gravemind we know of is probably more so an infected being than an actual stage of the flood.


What three accounts would those be? Keyes in CE, the pilot in the Mona Lisa...and what would be the third? Halo Wars?
To be quite honest I don't think they can be called Graveminds, not in comparison to the Gravemind. Sure they're an intelligence that is controlling the Flood, but they still seem feral and not a rationally thinking being. I agree that there can be more than one mind existing concurrently with the Flood, but there can only be one of the Gravemind (character from the trilogy) at a time, he is vastly different and completely distinct from the others.

Precursors are claimed to be the same thing and if the prisoner is a precursor and gets infected to become the gravemind then that covers that.

And from what it seems the gravemind was only killed when chief activated halo and destroyed the ark. prior to that he had been chilling on installation 5 for eons.

So there is no support for the notion of him dieing and coming back.


Did he die at the Ark? That is the question. Maybe his body was killed, but I don't think it'd be possible to kill the, for lack of a better word, soul of the Gravemind, I think as long as there are Flod about he can make a come back. I think his own lines back up that he can never really be truly killed.


The controversial part is the fact the current mind is probably the infected precursor therefore it did not develop by accumulating biomass. Thus the "proto" graveminds we see are probably the natural forms of what the flood would call leaders. No, the beasturim (SP) clearly states that multiply minds can be active at once as they all have the same goal. some would be mobile forms while others would be immobile; it even talks about a " supergravemind" forming when two minds fuse.


Good question. but i don't want to answer without more info

  • 07.22.2011 1:28 PM PDT

The whole concept of the Gravemind could be similar to that of Starcraft. Like having the Gravemind like Overmind and then the others could be like the cerebrates.

  • 07.22.2011 2:16 PM PDT

it is also possible that the graveminds would give two differnt orders that contradict each other that is why their is one

  • 07.22.2011 2:46 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: grey101
Precursors are claimed to be the same thing and if the prisoner is a precursor and gets infected to become the gravemind then that covers that.
That is a VERY interesting idea, and it lends itself to what you say later in the thread that the Proto Graveminds are the "real" leaders of the Flood and that "the" Gravemind or the infected Prisoner is a unique entity.

Posted by: grey101
And from what it seems the gravemind was only killed when chief activated halo and destroyed the ark. prior to that he had been chilling on installation 5 for eons.
I don't think the Gravemind was there for the thousands of years since the end of the Forerunner Flood war. Mainly because of the Cold Storage Transmissions.

"REPORT: CONTAINMENT FAILURE
LF.Xx.3273 research and containment facility; [delta site] has experienced catastrophic specimen containment failure. All apertures into facility will be locked until further notice. Atmosphere evacuation and [reduction of ambient temperature] protocols have already been enacted. Request maintenance and security detail [at earliest opportunity]. [8 minutes] elapsed since initial containment failure.

REPORT: CONTAINMENT FAILURE
Waiting for maintenance and security detail. [32 minutes, 9 seconds] elapsed since request.

REPORT: CONTAINMENT FAILURE
Still waiting for maintenance and security detail. [24 hours] elapsed since request.

REPORT: SECURITY BREACH

LF.Xx.3273 research and containment facility; [delta site] has experienced a security breach via emergency [slip stream space] transportation conduits. Emergency [slip stream space] transportation conduits have been placed in recursive mode to contain unauthorized hostile life forms. Request emergency security detail. Still waiting for primary maintenance and security detail. [2512332 hours, 14 minutes, 6 seconds] elapsed since initial request.

REPORT: DERELICTION OF DUTY
2401 Penitent Tangent has been lax in the areas of maintenance and security."


That was the first "transmission", no where does it say that a Gravemind was present in this out break. I think that would definitely be mentioned in the report if there was a Gravemind present from the beginning of the outbreak.
Then we get the second one:
LOG: QUERIED ADJACENT FACILITIES
LF.Xx.3273 research and containment facility [alpha, beta, gamma, epsilon, zeta, and kappa sites] have all replied [systems normal] within expected constraints. This would tend to signify that the containment failure was purely mechanical in nature; perhaps a manufacturing flaw. As no [outside agent] has accessed [delta site] in the past [874068942 hours, 4 minutes, 46 seconds][allowing for a 61360 hour, 54 minute, 2 second margin of error]sabotage would seem unlikely.

LOG: REQUEST UNANSWERED
LF.Xx.3273 research and containment facility; [delta site] is currently being held at [.01 atm] / [184K]. Local maintenance and security hubs have failed to reply within expected constraints. [Bumping maintenance and security request up] to [quadrant oversight].

LOG: REQUEST UNANSWERED
LF.Xx.3273 research and containment facility; [delta site] is currently being held at [1 atm] / [278K] as atmospheric seals were showing signs of stress. [Quadrant oversight] has failed to reply within expected constraints. [Bumping maintenance and security request all the way up] to 2401 [PENITENT TANGENT].

LOG: UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO FACILITIES
LF.Xx.3273 research and containment facility; [delta site] emergency [slip stream space] transportation conduits have been accessed by unauthorized parties.

LOG: FILED COMPLAINT TO INSTALLATION 00
2401 [PENITENT TANGENT], monitor of Installation 05, has been lax in the areas of maintenance and security. Requests for aid in said areas have gone unanswered by both 2401 and [subservient] systems well beyond expected constraints.
This transmission basically saying that the Flood that was being held on the installation escaped due to "mechanical" failure, "perhaps a manufacturing flaw". The installation tried to contact the Ark but of course no one was there to answer. Once again they only reference LF.Xx.3273 which isn't necessarily the Gravemind only the FSC.

So I don't think the presence of the Gravemind necessitates that he has been there for 100,000 years. We just have no idea how the Flood grew to such a large size on the ring with no species to feed on...

Of course if your idea about the Gravemind really being the infected Prisoner is true then everything is a crapshoot until Bear ends the trilogy.

[Edited on 07.22.2011 3:06 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2011 2:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

How long was the gravemind waiting then? because he was there for awhile if not 10,000 years

  • 07.22.2011 2:58 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: grey101
How long was the gravemind waiting then? because he was there for awhile if not 10,000 years
The outbreak on Installation 05 works out to about 200 years before 2552. At least judging by the transmissions.

  • 07.22.2011 3:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: grey101
How long was the gravemind waiting then? because he was there for awhile if not 10,000 years
The outbreak on Installation 05 works out to about 200 years before 2552. At least judging by the transmissions.


Yet there are flood fighting the defense force for 10,000 years.

Seeing how there is a pure form in stasis i think it was merely a break in a local containment seeing how the flood were already lose somewhat.

The reason 2401 didn't answer is because he got caught

  • 07.22.2011 3:11 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: grey101
How long was the gravemind waiting then? because he was there for awhile if not 10,000 years
The outbreak on Installation 05 works out to about 200 years before 2552. At least judging by the transmissions.


Yet there are flood fighting the defense force for 10,000 years.

Seeing how there is a pure form in stasis i think it was merely a break in a local containment seeing how the flood were already lose somewhat.

The reason 2401 didn't answer is because he got caught
Where are you getting 10,000 years? 2512332 hours works out to 286.6ish years since the initial outbreak.

Also the Flood weren't loose at all until the outbreak cataloged in the transmissions.

[Edited on 07.22.2011 3:17 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2011 3:16 PM PDT

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