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Subject: Thinking of using a Halo wiki? Don't!

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

When it comes to canonical discussion here at the Universe Forum, most of us have the actual primary sources of canon at hand, the books, games, and movies, ie Halo Legends. While it may be tempting to use one of the Halo wikis, Halopedian or Halo Nation, I strongly recommend against it.

The Halo wikis are good for one thing, providing a basic overview on the story of the games, books, and other media. That's it. Any other information you hope to gleam from those sites is not worth it. Most of it is speculation and unfortunately, it gets out in the articles.

For example, on Halo Nation's article about the title of Arbiter, it mentions an Arbiter being present at Reach. Now Thel Vadamee, the future Arbiter of Halo 2 was present at Reach, but he was in space and never on the ground. Only one source is given to back up the speculation about an Arbiter being on Reach, a board game. No other source says that.

Halopedian is no better. We all know what the Spartan-IIs are, but not everyone knows about the Spartan-II Class-II, the second generation of Spartan-IIs. In the books we are told that is was scrapped due to lack of funding, this is partly the reason the Spartan-IIIs were created in secret instead. In ilovebees it's hinted that the Class-II project was attempted again, but the last time I checked ilovebees canonical status in the Halo universe is still in limbo.

Months ago here, a member made a thread discussing the Class-IIs. In it, he claims the Spartan, Nicole-458, is a Class-II Spartan-II. His evidence as the thread progressed? A screencap of Evil Otto, a Bungie employee, saying Nicole was a Spartan in the canon, but her feats in Dead or Alive 4 weren't part of the story. Later on an admin at 343 Industries Halo Waypoint Forums said she is a Spartan as well.

According to the Halopedian article, Nicole is now part of Class-II. Guess who made the edit? Still, a flaw remains. It was never stated she was part of the second class of Spartan-IIs, but Halopedian included blind speculation as actual fact when it is not.

There is a reason teachers and professors say don't use Wikipedia or any wiki for your facts, they are unreliable as I just showed. If you want to contribute to canon discussions, there is a format I would like to recommend.

To cite your sources try this.

Books

1. Provide the information your are stating from the book in the form of a quote.

2. Provide the name of the book in question.

3. Provide the page number you found it on.

Video Game

1. Using something like YouTube, provide a video showing what you claim is the proof for your claim, this should be easy since all of the cutscenes and gameplay for every Halo game is available.

Other Media (Halo Legends/Motion Comics)

1. Much like the games, provide video from the media in question. Halo: Legends has episodes available on Halo Waypoint and YouTube, bu Warner Brothers takes down certain portions of the Legends episodes. The Halo Motion Comics are on YouTube and Waypoint as well.

Hope this helps. And feel free to include misinformation the wikis use as well.

Summary

Don't use Halopedian or Halo Nation

[Edited on 08.01.2011 7:07 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2011 11:21 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

They still haven't updated the page on glassing with the info from the datapads nor have they updated majority of cryptum info

  • 07.22.2011 11:23 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
They still haven't updated the page on glassing with the info from the datapads nor have they updated majority of cryptum info


Because the info given on glassing in the datapads was debunked several times by later canon, such as Glasslands cover and the map Condemned.

  • 07.22.2011 11:26 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: grey101
They still haven't updated the page on glassing with the info from the datapads nor have they updated majority of cryptum info


Because the info given on glassing in the datapads was debunked several times by later canon, such as Glasslands cover and the map Condemned.


No it hasn't and since when does a book cover overrule anything?

You do understand that all the smoke and fire would reflect the let in the atmosphere making it look as if it is completely on fire. not to mention the entire planet did burn but was not glassed (Fall of reach).

Fred says it himself that while the poles were glassed the rest of the planet had become one large forest fire.

  • 07.22.2011 11:29 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Posted by: grey101
They still haven't updated the page on glassing with the info from the datapads nor have they updated majority of cryptum info

Because the info given on glassing in the datapads was debunked several times by later canon, such as Glasslands cover and the map Condemned.

Both of those are artistic licence. Why don't you go back to my thread and tear down at least 50% of the arguments rather than source third party developed maps and non-finalised cover art?

Edit: Not to mention that the First Strike re-release removed the line that every square millimetre is glassed. It was retconned. It is gone.

[Edited on 07.22.2011 11:35 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2011 11:32 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Anton, can you please provide me with the original page number in the first issue that says every square milimeter was glassed, and the page number in the rewrite where that line was removed?

  • 07.22.2011 11:42 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: privet caboose
Anton, can you please provide me with the original page number in the first issue that says every square milimeter was glassed, and the page number in the rewrite where that line was removed?

Original: Page 105
"When the Covenant destroys a planet, they typically move their large warships closer and blanket the world with a series of crisscrossing orbits to ensure that every square millimetre of the surface is covered with plasma bombardments."


2010 Version: Page 130
"When the Covenant destroys a planet, they typically move their large warships closer and blanket the world with a series of crisscrossing orbits to ensure that nothing could ever survive on its surface."


Why change this rather inconspicuous line out of the entire book when it was seemingly no error and also in no contradiction with anything else in the "Old canon"?

Another change I noticed from one of Lt. Wagner's lines:

Original: Page 102
"Before I jumped to Slipspace, I witnessed the poles destroyed, and approximately two thirds of the planets surface was on fire."


2010 version: Page 128
"Before I jumped to Slipspace, I witnessed the poles destroyed, and a significant portion of the planet's surface was on fire."


[Edited on 07.22.2011 12:07 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2011 11:52 AM PDT

I have to agree with the OP here. A community, such as this one, can be far more beneficial to someone that just the who, what, where, when, how, and why. I've also seen what can happen to a wiki when people have an editing war. It ain't pretty.

  • 07.22.2011 12:54 PM PDT

Only thing about books is things change over time.

A wiki( If ran by a reliable source of people) is always updating. For example wikipedia is great for looking up Abe Lincoln because it can only be updated by two or three people who are experts on him, but a page about a writer who wrote two okay books can be edited by anyone.

  • 07.22.2011 3:16 PM PDT

Hmmm, while not all the information is solid, certain pieces are pretty good.

I'd say the halopedian is a decent source, but as long as it's treated as not the absolute best source.

  • 07.22.2011 3:38 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Halo wikis should be only used for getting the general idea. If you are making a theory or arguing a point, always try to use a book so that you don't disort facts.
Maybe we should organize a mass edit of Halopedia...

I would also suggest that you make a thread that contains all these universe help threads such as the theory thread. If it is pinned, I think the quality of threads here would increase.

[Edited on 07.22.2011 7:39 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2011 7:37 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: privet caboose
Anton, can you please provide me with the original page number in the first issue that says every square milimeter was glassed, and the page number in the rewrite where that line was removed?

Original: Page 105
"When the Covenant destroys a planet, they typically move their large warships closer and blanket the world with a series of crisscrossing orbits to ensure that every square millimetre of the surface is covered with plasma bombardments."


2010 Version: Page 130
"When the Covenant destroys a planet, they typically move their large warships closer and blanket the world with a series of crisscrossing orbits to ensure that nothing could ever survive on its surface."


Why change this rather inconspicuous line out of the entire book when it was seemingly no error and also in no contradiction with anything else in the "Old canon"?

Another change I noticed from one of Lt. Wagner's lines:

Original: Page 102
"Before I jumped to Slipspace, I witnessed the poles destroyed, and approximately two thirds of the planets surface was on fire."


2010 version: Page 128
"Before I jumped to Slipspace, I witnessed the poles destroyed, and a significant portion of the planet's surface was on fire."
Well basically it allows for the wiggle room that was needed with the new info the Data Pads have given us. Instead of having the Covenant glassing every inch of the planet now we're not really sure it just looks like a significant portion was on fire.

I'm sure you had already figured that out but I was just answering your question.

Edit: Oh and Halo wikis are not a good source.

[Edited on 07.22.2011 7:49 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2011 7:48 PM PDT

Halopedian is where I start when researching, but yeah I agree, any concrete evidence should be gleaned from hard sources. I just read an article on Halopedian, look at its sources, then look for myself.

However, I do think that Halopedian is the best of the wikis. The most reliable anyway.

  • 07.22.2011 7:49 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Spartan1065
Well basically it allows for the wiggle room that was needed with the new info the Data Pads have given us. Instead of having the Covenant glassing every inch of the planet now we're not really sure it just looks like a significant portion was on fire.

I'm sure you had already figured that out but I was just answering your question.

Yeah. It basically reduces it to a vague statement; an indefinite conclusion as to what exactly happens, which offers room for interpretation which was previously impossible. No more can one say that every single square inch is glassed. They can only say that a "significant" portion is "on fire". Significant itself implies that not every single part is "on fire". Even "on fire" is vague. Does it actually mean glassed, or just forest fires?

This overall retcon that has been happening is astoundingly obvious yet I am continuously amazed by some peoples inability (Or unwillingness) to accept it.

  • 07.22.2011 8:11 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

All dedicated Halo fans on this site should organize a massive edit of Halopedia.

  • 07.22.2011 8:37 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan1065
Well basically it allows for the wiggle room that was needed with the new info the Data Pads have given us. Instead of having the Covenant glassing every inch of the planet now we're not really sure it just looks like a significant portion was on fire.

I'm sure you had already figured that out but I was just answering your question.

Yeah. It basically reduces it to a vague statement; an indefinite conclusion as to what exactly happens, which offers room for interpretation which was previously impossible. No more can one say that every single square inch is glassed. They can only say that a "significant" portion is "on fire". Significant itself implies that not every single part is "on fire". Even "on fire" is vague. Does it actually mean glassed, or just forest fires?

This overall retcon that has been happening is astoundingly obvious yet I am continuously amazed by some peoples inability (Or unwillingness) to accept it.
Vague and lazy retconning is vague and lazy.
Do people not accept that the Covenant doesn't glass the entire planet? I haven't seen this.

[Edited on 07.22.2011 8:44 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2011 8:43 PM PDT

I am invisible, understand, simply because people refuse to see me.
--Ralph Ellison

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The Halo wikis are good for one thing, providing a basic overview on the story of the games, books, and other media. That's it. Any other information you hope to gleam from those sites is not worth it. Most of it is speculation and unfortunately, it gets out in the articles.


Definitely true. You can also use the Halo wikis to find quotes and page numbers more easily since those are just direct quotes.

  • 07.22.2011 8:52 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Personally, I like the idea of finding them myself.

  • 07.22.2011 8:56 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan1065
Well basically it allows for the wiggle room that was needed with the new info the Data Pads have given us. Instead of having the Covenant glassing every inch of the planet now we're not really sure it just looks like a significant portion was on fire.

I'm sure you had already figured that out but I was just answering your question.

Yeah. It basically reduces it to a vague statement; an indefinite conclusion as to what exactly happens, which offers room for interpretation which was previously impossible. No more can one say that every single square inch is glassed. They can only say that a "significant" portion is "on fire". Significant itself implies that not every single part is "on fire". Even "on fire" is vague. Does it actually mean glassed, or just forest fires?

This overall retcon that has been happening is astoundingly obvious yet I am continuously amazed by some peoples inability (Or unwillingness) to accept it.


You guys realise the quote about glassing wasn't referring to any one single event, but rather a generalisation about just how zealous the Covenant actually are?

I think a case can be made that people, fictional or otherwise, can exaggerate points in order to demonstrate a concept. Don't remove the human element from characters [especially human ones] when examining text, quotes, etc.

OP is correct too: Physical sources [ie, books] are the best sources regarding debates about cannon. Don't shy away from Halo-wikis' but don't treat them as gospel.

Good essays/arguments also tend to cite all of their sources too.

  • 07.22.2011 8:56 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?

Good stuff. Thread saved.

  • 07.31.2011 3:39 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

I like Halopedian... :(

  • 07.31.2011 7:42 PM PDT

8/5/08 Bungie Favorites- NoEnd
7/1/09 Bungie Favorites- RECON Devil
9/9/09 Bungie Favorites- Champion
5/22/10 HaloCharts Favs- Prey

Don't site Halo wikis as pure fact, but they can be used for useful information.

  • 07.31.2011 10:19 PM PDT

"Apparently people don't like the truth, but I do like it; I like it because it upsets a lot of people. If you show them enough times that their arguments are bull-blam!-, then maybe just once, one of them will say, 'Oh! Wait a minute I was wrong.' I live for that happening. Rare, I assure you."-Lemmy of Motorhead

i belive shhave funzes suppos

Yes, I'm the guy who had the Flood admit to being furries.

OP never watched the opening cinematic of Halo 2, apparently. He was present at Reach.

Halo wikis are also good to FIND those primary sources. As all sources are listed at bottom of articles, instead of hunting and guessing search terms in google or scrambling physical documents and awkwardly type it all.

Oh, and they are good for pictures :3

[Edited on 07.31.2011 10:31 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 10:31 PM PDT

United Armed Forces


Posted by: HaI0Fighter92
OP never watched the opening cinematic of Halo 2, apparently. He was present at Reach.


He was, yes, but he wasn't an Arbiter then.

  • 07.31.2011 11:00 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: HaI0Fighter92
OP never watched the opening cinematic of Halo 2, apparently. He was present at Reach.

Halo wikis are also good to FIND those primary sources. As all sources are listed at bottom of articles, instead of hunting and guessing search terms in google or scrambling physical documents and awkwardly type it all.

Oh, and they are good for pictures :3
Like this?

Source 3 - Halo: The Fall of Reach: page ??

What a great resource to find those primary sources. Had it not been for this astoundingly astute website I would not know that TFoR talks about thruster packs somewhere.

  • 08.01.2011 1:07 AM PDT

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