Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: E3 2004 Criticism. A few major changes recommended.
  • Subject: E3 2004 Criticism. A few major changes recommended.
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4
Subject: E3 2004 Criticism. A few major changes recommended.
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

It's just my opinion, but the 2004 presentation of HALO 2 was a disaster. However, it isn't your fault, Bungie. It's only logical to show multiplayer since you did show what was to be expected in Campaign mode in last year's phenomenal display at E3. But didn't you notice how the crowd hesitated before clapping at the end of the showing? That's right. People were dissapointed. You see, there was actually nothing shown. Where is sprinting? Where is the new HUD that Frankie was talking about? Where is the ATV? Come on now. Unfortunately, there were also glaring problems that I could not ignore.

1. The reload animation for the Battle Rifle is extremely ugly. What happened to the original reload animation showcased in the E3 2003 demo. It was far superior. Also, seeing MC hold the Battle Rifle in his hand makes me want to puke. I believe it is due to the bump-mapping affecting the sense of depth, but his arm basically looks like a stiff ass log while holding it. He is simply holding it wrong, and would never hold the weapon that way unless it was very close to his body. The arm should be angled, and you should only see part of his wrist and his hand, like the E3 2003 demo.

2. Homing rockets are stupid. Please take them out immediately. What I recommend is taking away the homing capability for the SPNKr, and granting the function solely to the Warthog-mounted Rocket Launcher or Stationary RL. This balances it out some more, so we don't have every moron on Earth abusing the function and shooting off rockets without any skill required. Believe me, keeping a reticle on a target does not require any skill. See, there is a certain satisfaction with having to judge exactly how far and when to shoot a rocket to blow your opponent sky-high in the original, and I hope a similar expertise is required in the sequel.

3. Plasma Sword looks horrible. Sorry, this is the truth. Can anyone please tell me what happened to the effects from the E3 2003 demo? The swords look absolutely fantastic in that presentation, with the glowing plasma effect, making them very alive. In HALO 2 MP, they look like a piece of crap you would buy from Toys 'R Us. They just look flat and uninspired. Also, why would the PS be ignited on the ground? Can we get some sense in here? When you pick it up from the ground, it should just be the handle, and when you do, it should ignite, just like they do in the 2003 demo.

That's all.

  • 05.11.2004 11:48 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I would have to agree with most of your points. It was fun trying to shoot the moving warthogs manually with skill, now thats obsolete when compared to the homing rockets. I didnt notice the BR animation, but i though the Rocket reload looked clunky and weird. I dont know, Im nitpicking and i realize that. I just hope everything is balanced and fun in the end. Also, im hoping to see another video these next couple days to see multiplayer in action.

[Edited on 5/11/2004 11:55:30 PM]

  • 05.11.2004 11:54 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I agree with the above criticisms. I would also like to point out that the rockets appeared to move much slower than before. They also tended to have much more generic-sounding explosions upon impact. I would advise that the original firing speed be returned, whereas homing rockets could maintain this slower speed. This would balance out the advantage. Homing rockets are locked yet slower, whereas normal rounds are unlocked yet travel at faster speeds.

  • 05.12.2004 12:03 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I agree, the sword is comparably uglier than before. And igniting it when you pick it up would be so cool looking. I guess having it pre-lit makes it easier to spot on the battlefield but it makes no sense. Perhaps having just a handle on the ground would help balance it if it's too powerful? Anyhow even if it's hard to find players will train themselves to pick it out if it's tactical enough.

The animations are faster-paced than Halo 1, I noticed that in the E3 demo too. Perhaps this is to represent the adrenaline of battle, but it would be more aesthetic if it were a tad slower. Halo's pace was perfect.

Then again, people find it hard to accept new things, and there will always be people who think Halo 1 is better than Halo 2. It's hard to put down your doo-doo tinted glasses...

  • 05.12.2004 12:43 AM PDT
  • gamertag: bo eh
  • user homepage:

Wyrd bið ful aræd

I have to agree. it wasn't what I hoped. but maybe there'll be a singleplayer movie wich rocks E3.

  • 05.12.2004 12:51 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Megalith
It's just my opinion, but the 2004 presentation of HALO 2 was a disaster. However, it isn't your fault, Bungie. It's only logical to show multiplayer since you did show what was to be expected in Campaign mode in last year's phenomenal display at E3. But didn't you notice how the crowd hesitated before clapping at the end of the showing? That's right. People were dissapointed. You see, there was actually nothing shown. Where is sprinting? Where is the new HUD that Frankie was talking about? Where is the ATV? Come on now. Unfortunately, there were also glaring problems that I could not ignore.


Nothing was shown? Bungie showed us heaps... but not everything - like they're supposed to.

1. The reload animation for the Battle Rifle is extremely ugly. What happened to the original reload animation showcased in the E3 2003 demo. It was far superior. Also, seeing MC hold the Battle Rifle in his hand makes me want to puke. I believe it is due to the bump-mapping affecting the sense of depth, but his arm basically looks like a stiff ass log while holding it. He is simply holding it wrong, and would never hold the weapon that way unless it was very close to his body. The arm should be angled, and you should only see part of his wrist and his hand, like the E3 2003 demo.

Personally I don't think this was that bad... In the words of an IGN writer "They could totally ruin the graphics and I'd still play this game"...

2. Homing rockets are stupid. Please take them out immediately. What I recommend is taking away the homing capability for the SPNKr, and granting the function solely to the Warthog-mounted Rocket Launcher or Stationary RL. This balances it out some more, so we don't have every moron on Earth abusing the function and shooting off rockets without any skill required. Believe me, keeping a reticle on a target does not require any skill. See, there is a certain satisfaction with having to judge exactly how far and when to shoot a rocket to blow your opponent sky-high in the original, and I hope a similar expertise is required in the sequel.

I thought the new rockets looked good, and I doubt Bungie will make it anything other than balenced...

3. Plasma Sword looks horrible. Sorry, this is the truth. Can anyone please tell me what happened to the effects from the E3 2003 demo? The swords look absolutely fantastic in that presentation, with the glowing plasma effect, making them very alive. In HALO 2 MP, they look like a piece of crap you would buy from Toys 'R Us. They just look flat and uninspired. Also, why would the PS be ignited on the ground? Can we get some sense in here? When you pick it up from the ground, it should just be the handle, and when you do, it should ignite, just like they do in the 2003 demo.

That's all.


Flat and uninspired? did you not see the electricity sparking up between the blades? did you not see the blades pulsing with colour?

Why would the PS be ignited on the ground? simple... so you can see it. Oh, and because it hasn't been turned off...


I think you've watched too much of the 2003 E3 demo and expect that to be the game you'll see a year and a half later... Bungie are great game developers - and it would take a monumental effort to screw Halo 2 up now...

  • 05.12.2004 12:52 AM PDT
  • gamertag: bo eh
  • user homepage:

Wyrd bið ful aræd

Bungie are great game developers

thats true. and they'll make it!

  • 05.12.2004 12:56 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I just want Joeseph Staten and Jason Jones to assure the fans one thing. They must assure that the in-game graphics will look as good if not better than those in the announce trailer. If so, this game will change the way we view videogames forever. Don't let us down.

[Edited on 5/12/2004 12:58:43 AM]

  • 05.12.2004 12:58 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I would think the complaint about reloading animation was dumb, its better than halo 1 anyhow. And also realize that the Homing missle only locks onto vehicles wich is an incredible idea! It would badly effect the gameplay if it locked onto Spartans or Elites alone.

The plasma sword looks fine, it doesnt have to look like the one from the e3 event last year. Besides we dont want it glowing so bright that a sniper can see you from the east side of mississippi. I really dont think any of your complaints will effect the gameplay especially the reload animation. Gameplay is the only thing important to halo 2's hype.

  • 05.12.2004 12:58 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

exactly what I was thinking...

  • 05.12.2004 1:01 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

No offense, but I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. We're just giving constructive criticism as fans. We want the game to be as good as possible, and I don't think Bungie would mind us pointing out a few flaws here and there. I predict everything addressed in this thread to be vastly improved based on community feedback.

[Edited on 5/12/2004 1:11:03 AM]

  • 05.12.2004 1:07 AM PDT

Me: "OMFG, Dude... wtf!"
AbolitionofMan: "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to betray you."
Me: "That's the 4th time in this game alone!"
Chris: "Third, besides he had the flag I was trying to stop him, how was I supposed to know you were there."
Me: "I said, 'I got the Flag, don't shoot.'"
Chris: "Well those Wraith shots take a while to reach you."
Me: "You were right next to me, I had killed him and a minute passed before you decided to shoot."
Chris: "Hahahahaha, yeah... that was great."

Think of it this way. When you first played Halo, what was your reaction? I assume all of you were like me. The day it came out I poped it in and played. My GF told me I was sick cause for literally 30 minutes my mouth was open in gasp and awe as I played the first level, PoA. Now...in Multi...it was the social experince more than anything that made me love it. Since the game is the same excpet now with people. But look at Halo now...we can see so many little things here and there that bug us or we don't like and want fixed in H2. I think the same thing will happen in H2. Except now, people may be expecting TOO much from Bungie. Considering they've taken a lot of time and effort to creat an amazing sequal, I have no doubt it will be spectacualer and I will once again piss off my GF as I will spend more time with H2 than with her. But we can't expect them to make the game perfect, cause no matter how hard someone tries there are always flaws and faults that appear over time. I say enjoy what we got people..... I mean we might not have even gotten a H2. So let's be thankful as we wait for an awesome game to come out and not nitpick every little thing.

Achilles

  • 05.12.2004 1:16 AM PDT

First off, this video was at a Press Conference, not in your living room as the finished product. Bungie, unlike most gaming companies, doesn't give ALL it's secrets away at this ######## event known as E3. If you've read any of the recent interviews given by Bungie (OXM,GI,etc.) then you should have expected what you got in the MP demo. No one, not even the beta testers at Microsoft, have been given a "FULL" demo with ALL the new features. New features includes weapons, vehicles, graphics (which seems to be one of your big complaints), playable characters, animations, and fill in the blank for what ever Bungie hasn't told us. If you've read any of the Halo 2 updates given each week, then you should know that Bungie hasn't finished polishing/working on the game; therefore, even they haven't got to play the finished product in all it's glory.

While I'm sure that as perfect as Halo 2 will be, it to will have a few problems. But after reading comments such as yours, one would assume that you have been listening to the wrong people for your info, or that you have way to high of expectations(Which can sometimes be a good thing... but not in this case) My suggestion to you is to tune out the hype and stick to the facts, which are pretty amazing themselves. Halo 2 will be the most amazing game ever WHEN IT IS FINISHED. Untill then, you shouldn't judge it:)

(This wasn't meant in a "you're an IDIOT" kind of way:)

[Edited on 5/12/2004 11:25:42 AM]

  • 05.12.2004 1:19 AM PDT

------YOU CAN'T TAKE A GIRL TO THE LIBRARY!------

somehow it doesn't suprise me there are people who would criticize the awesome demo. i'm just glad you aren't working on the game.

there was nothing wrong with the reloading animation.

if you noticed the second time he homed in on the warthog with the rocket, it didn't even flip it over.

it is well known that the multiplayer will not look as good as the single player for performance reasons, even though what they showed was beautiful. the plama sword is ignited on the ground so you can see it genius.



[Edited on 5/12/2004 4:21:06 AM]

  • 05.12.2004 1:42 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I think the point the homing rockets is to balance off the fact that the vehicles have that sprint function now. If you notice the rockets don't have nearly as much power as the original game because it took 2 or 3 shots to destroy the warthog. As far as reload animation they look great to me. The goal isn't to make the game look like it did in that demo last year, the goal is to make it look the best it can.

  • 05.12.2004 2:59 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I have to say ill stick to halo god fan!
If seen the e3 movie of 2003 and 2004, they are both awsome!
And i think bungie did a very good job, so don't complain your ass of, if so make your own game!
But i can agree with 1 think they should have put some more things into the demo, like the atv and the other things you mentioned.
One thing i saw was the big change in the armo/health bar, i wissed they explaned that 2!

  • 05.12.2004 3:39 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

LOL....

I don't understand why they will first realese it on november the 9th maby they have finished Campaign and doing MP.

  • 05.12.2004 3:50 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

First of all, I would like to take this time to explain to you something that always drives me when it comes time to criticize a game. In my humble opinion, graphics almost don't count. They are the extra icing on the cake, if you will. Gameplay and fun value matter the most; for example, if you had a game that had extremely realistic graphics but the only options for you to pursue were to press A (or B, or whatever the hell). Then, the game was over. Let's look at the positive things that would be going for that game:

- Excellent graphics
- ...
- ...
Yeah, not too great is it? Gameplay and fun value (also known as replay value) are the two things that shape a game. Like Jamie said in Halo 2 documentary, "You can have all the great graphics with amazing effects, but if you don't nail the 30 seconds of fun, you're not going to have a great game". There should be no complaints as far as graphics are going. Halo 2 almost looks as good as Half Life 2 (graphics wise only). And it's on a console. I don't think you can ask for much more than that at this point in time.

The reload animation for the Battle Rifle is extremely ugly. What happened to the original reload animation showcased in the E3 2003 demo. It was far superior

I noticed the change. I didn't puke. Bungie obviously did it to make the MC's hand motion seem a bit more alive. In the original E3 2003 demo, MC's reload motion was very choppy and he did all the steps in segments. The position of the arm in contrast to the angle of the gun part. I've seen nothing wrong about this. I've held and fired a hunting rifle before, and it looks pretty much like that. You hold the butt of the gun against your shoulder, not under it. It looks much more realistic this time.

Homing rockets are stupid. Please take them out immediately. What I recommend is taking away the homing capability for the SPNKr, and granting the function solely to the Warthog-mounted Rocket Launcher or Stationary RL

No! Didn't you hear what Joseph said? It was to "even the odds" A mounted Rocket launcher or sationary one much likely has much more power. We don't want to give it the ability of homing - then noobs would really start to abuse it. As some of you may have noticed - it took several shots just to destroy the warthog, which goes to show you that the power of the Rocket launcher has been decreased.

Also, why would the PS be ignited on the ground?

Well, if it wasn't ignited - how would you see it? It might look like some stick in the sand, or a peice of rubble in a destroyed city. Otherwise, when ignited it's much easier to make out and you dont have to look stupid trying to pick up a stick sized rock. There's your sense.

But didn't you notice how the crowd hesitated before clapping at the end of the showing?

Of course you couldn't hear the clapping - the music was playing in the background. It became muffled once the metallic 2 showed up in the orange clouds. Obviously.

We're just giving constructive criticism as fans

There's nothing wrong with constructive critcism - as long as it's not in vain. As said before, every game will have flaws or arguable points. I also believe that some of you were expecting something a lot better for some reason. The Bungie employees are only human; Halo 2 is not going to be so far apart from Halo 1 that it isn't Halo anymore. I personally enjoyed the video so much that I watched it several times. Cheers for Bungie!

[Edited on 5/12/2004 4:47:56 AM]

  • 05.12.2004 4:30 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

"klaps his hands for OrangeDragon", im totally with you in every opinion in your post!!!
Good job dude!, Cant wait till the real E3 move :P

  • 05.12.2004 4:38 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I think people should stop complaining and let Bungie do thir jobs

  • 05.12.2004 4:40 AM PDT

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." Albert Einstein
"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." Gandhi

I was in awe the whole time watching the video. Not once did I think ill of ANYTHING. It looks to me like Halo 2 is going to kick are A$$'s on Nov. 9th. Glad mine's paid for.

  • 05.12.2004 4:46 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Zeal
I agree with the above criticisms. I would also like to point out that the rockets appeared to move much slower than before. They also tended to have much more generic-sounding explosions upon impact. I would advise that the original firing speed be returned, whereas homing rockets could maintain this slower speed. This would balance out the advantage. Homing rockets are locked yet slower, whereas normal rounds are unlocked yet travel at faster speeds.


I thought they looked faster in the press conference then in the origional Halo...

Also, homing rockets are needed agenist flying vehicles... The rocket launcher in Halo was a pain in the ass to hit a decent banshee pilot... Plus, there's no work yet to if the rockets lock on infantry as well...

[Edited on 5/12/2004 4:52:25 AM]

  • 05.12.2004 4:49 AM PDT

gamer tag: CrazyChinchilla

guys its multiplayer its gonna look a little less than single player so it can work online a giant glowing thing is not very good for online games im even surprised they put that giant spinning thing can you people not be pleased

  • 05.12.2004 4:54 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

E3 starts today...everything you saw was from a press briefing before E3, theyve got more in store so chill out

-and the plasma sword looks awesome

  • 05.12.2004 5:01 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

After watching it again, the graphics and looks of the weapons don't bother me at all... The game looks really good, and obviously was a success...

  • 05.12.2004 5:10 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4