Bungie Universe
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  • Subject: Depth in Halo Universe is Unmatched
Subject: Depth in Halo Universe is Unmatched
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Syrupey Carpet

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Syrupey Carpet
Actually, guys, it's not just Halo.

Everything that Bungie has made is connected in some way, so that can expand a lot more than 20 years.

It truly isn't just the Halo Universe, it is, well, the Bungie Universe.


no they aren't, bungie just throws in nods they aren't connected and they even said that


The Halo Universe is centered around Marathon, look at it. Also, use grammar if you want to actually try to challenge me, I know more than the average monkey in the Halo Universe


i am not "trying" nor am i "challanging"; you are wrong and you sound like a monkey.

  • 07.25.2011 2:43 PM PDT

"It will not be we who reach Alpha Centauri, and the other nearby stars, it will be a species very like us, but with more of our strengths and fewer of our weaknesses, more confident, far-seeing, capable, and prudent. For all our failings, despite our limitations and fallibilities, we humans are capable of greatness."-Carl Sagan

For a FPS it has a spectacular universe.

  • 07.25.2011 2:46 PM PDT
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"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

-2 Timothy 4:7

I LOVE Halo's lore.

  • 07.25.2011 2:46 PM PDT
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Boomer.
Best. Ship. Ever!

Posted by: Placid Platypus
Posted by: dahuterschuter
The Haloverse is quite underdeveloped in terms of sci-fi universes.


Seconded.
To illustrate: Marathon vs. Halo
Halo isn't anything special; just generic humans fight aliens science-fiction. There is nothing subtle or overly intelligent about the game's universe. The potential is there, sure, but it's being used in the same way a tree has the potential to be beautiful but instead gets milled into single-ply toilet paper.

This. Marathon is more deep with its 3 games than Halo is with all it's novels, comics, games, and those group of animations in Legends.

Don't get me wrong, I like Halo. I've read all the novels and played the games and do find it interesting, but it lacks the depth and consistency that Marathon still has.

  • 07.25.2011 2:50 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Placid Platypus
Posted by: dahuterschuter
The Haloverse is quite underdeveloped in terms of sci-fi universes.


Seconded.
To illustrate: Marathon vs. Halo
Halo isn't anything special; just generic humans fighting aliens science-fiction. There is nothing subtle or overly intelligent about the game's universe. The potential is there, sure, but it's being used in the same way a tree has the potential to be beautiful but instead gets milled into single-ply toilet paper.


No it's more then just aliens shooting as us,you just proved you don't know a -blam!- about the story.

I'm not good at explaining it but Roberto is boss at it

But really tell me which syfy verse puts mysterious storylines in the game that hints at something great like Iris.

Does SW has something like that,or trek or gate?Or is there a part that i missed,now tell me.

  • 07.25.2011 2:50 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: Placid Platypus
Posted by: dahuterschuter
The Haloverse is quite underdeveloped in terms of sci-fi universes.


Seconded.
To illustrate: Marathon vs. Halo
Halo isn't anything special; just generic humans fighting aliens science-fiction. There is nothing subtle or overly intelligent about the game's universe. The potential is there, sure, but it's being used in the same way a tree has the potential to be beautiful but instead gets milled into single-ply toilet paper.


No it's more then just aliens shooting as us,you just proved you don't know a -blam!- about the story.

I'm not good at explaining it but Roberto is boss at it

But really tell me which syfy verse puts mysterious storylines in the game that hints at something great like Iris.

Does SW has something like that,or trek or gate?Or is there a part that i missed,now tell me.


I remember a comic arc called Vector that crossed over through the Old Republic Era to the Legacy Era. It set up the events for the final arc of Legacy set hundreds of years after A New Hope.

  • 07.25.2011 2:52 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: Placid Platypus
Posted by: dahuterschuter
The Haloverse is quite underdeveloped in terms of sci-fi universes.


Seconded.
To illustrate: Marathon vs. Halo
Halo isn't anything special; just generic humans fighting aliens science-fiction. There is nothing subtle or overly intelligent about the game's universe. The potential is there, sure, but it's being used in the same way a tree has the potential to be beautiful but instead gets milled into single-ply toilet paper.


No it's more then just aliens shooting as us,you just proved you don't know a -blam!- about the story.

I'm not good at explaining it but Roberto is boss at it

But really tell me which syfy verse puts mysterious storylines in the game that hints at something great like Iris.

Does SW has something like that,or trek or gate?Or is there a part that i missed,now tell me.


I know for a fact star wars has some grand mythical race that ended up dispersing. And star trek has deminsonal aliens

  • 07.25.2011 2:54 PM PDT
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Boomer.
Best. Ship. Ever!

Posted by: grey101
I know for a fact star wars has some grand mythical race that ended up dispersing. And star trek has deminsonal aliens

Wasn't it the actual race of the Sith that disappeared? I can't remember.

  • 07.25.2011 2:56 PM PDT

I think he's referring to the complexity of the story, which takes up 95% of the Haloverse. At that point I agree with him; most universes are composed of thousands of smaller stories that are unrelated.

  • 07.25.2011 3:01 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: Placid Platypus
Posted by: dahuterschuter
The Haloverse is quite underdeveloped in terms of sci-fi universes.


Seconded.
To illustrate: Marathon vs. Halo
Halo isn't anything special; just generic humans fighting aliens science-fiction. There is nothing subtle or overly intelligent about the game's universe. The potential is there, sure, but it's being used in the same way a tree has the potential to be beautiful but instead gets milled into single-ply toilet paper.


No it's more then just aliens shooting as us,you just proved you don't know a -blam!- about the story.

I'm not good at explaining it but Roberto is boss at it

But really tell me which syfy verse puts mysterious storylines in the game that hints at something great like Iris.

Does SW has something like that,or trek or gate?Or is there a part that i missed,now tell me.


I know for a fact star wars has some grand mythical race that ended up dispersing. And star trek has deminsonal aliens

Pretty much every space-centered sci-fi universe has a race of alien race shrouded in mystery. There are the reapers, old ones, buggers, etc. It has almost become a cliche.

  • 07.25.2011 3:10 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Here is an example:

In most sciencefiction storys(at least the ones i know)

The Humans have no real purpose,they are nothing more then one of the many species inhabiting the universe(correct me if i'm wrong)

Now the Humans of Halo actually have one.The Precursors seem to have a plan for us all,it is hinted that they created us,they do have a plan for Humanity and the 4runners which we don't know yet.Then there is the mantle thing and so.

This is what i miss in others,but offcourse at first glance the UNSC are just like any other,but delving into the expanded story shows another thing

  • 07.25.2011 3:15 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Posted by: hotshot revan II
No it's more then just aliens shooting as us,you just proved you don't know a -blam!- about the story.


Personally, I think I have a good handle on the story, or as much of a handle as I care to.

Halo is rote, plain science-fiction. The first Halo game was promising, yet that level of quality was never duplicated. Not when Master Cheif ride on the purple, spiked space potato (H2), not in the 'saw that coming' Covenant civil war (H2+3), not in Halo 3.2: ODST Jazz Boogaloo, and not in the story of six action movie stereo-types on Reach. The games boil down to little more than go there, shoot aliens, and save the universe.

Sure, you can bring in the whole Forerunner, Precursor, and Flood, but you are only citing little explored side-lines of a main story which has perpetually centered on soldiers in (green) armor fighting aliens, and even then, fighting them with retcon and plot-holes as much as an ever changing inventory of weapons.

Halo has room to improve, but the pattern formed so far after five games, a bunch of short films, and a decent amount of books is little more than a confused, generic morass.

[Edited on 07.25.2011 3:18 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2011 3:15 PM PDT

But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Yours to manipulate, to destroy and rebuild.

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are destiny.

Halo is about as deep as a puddle when compared to stuff like Tolkien.

  • 07.25.2011 3:18 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Placid Platypus
Posted by: hotshot revan II
No it's more then just aliens shooting as us,you just proved you don't know a -blam!- about the story.


Personally, I think I have a good handle on the story, or as much of a handle as I care to.

Halo is rote, plain science-fiction. The first Halo game was promising, yet that level of quality was never duplicated. Not when Master Cheif ride on the purple, spiked space potato (H2), not in the 'saw that coming' Covenant civil war (H2+3), not in Halo 3.2: ODST Jazz Boogaloo, and not in the story of six action movie stereo-types on Reach. The games boil down to little more than go there, shoot aliens, and save the universe.

Sure, you can bring in the whole Forerunner, Precursor, and Flood, but you are only citing little explored side-lines of a main story which has perpetually centered on soldiers in (green) armor fighting aliens, and even then, fighting them with retcon and plot-holes as much as an ever changing inventory weapons.

Halo has room to improve, but the pattern formed so far after five games, a bunch of short films, and a decent amount of books is little more than a confused, generic morass.


See there is your problem,as Frank o Connor recently said:all storys are part of eachother and are connected to eachother and do have a purpose.

-Halo Games =/= Overall storyline,but the first trilogy was important and good.

You just described all sciencefiction series out of there -_-

-The 3 factions you just said,these 3 are far more important for the overall storyline then the Covenant.The last ten years were mostly about the covies vs humans but that is about to change,but alot of things did hinted at something great beyond that war like iris,terminals,cortana letters,..

Main story of Halo?The trilogy is about this 3 factions,well the Precursors not yet but i expect them in the next trilogy

-WTF is all i have to say

How about you tell me why Marathon is more special



  • 07.25.2011 3:23 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Floyd Pinkinson
Halo is about as deep as a puddle when compared to stuff like Tolkien.


I give you a challenge...prove it,so i can dissect your post apart.

Trust me man,your stupid if you try to compare a fantasy story with a sciencefiction story,but go ahead,i'm listening...

*continues with exercises*

  • 07.25.2011 3:26 PM PDT

@ hotshot revan II
Sci-fi and fantasy are incredibly similar, and Halo has NOTHING on Tolkien.

Halo's got a decent story, but it's not as deep as it should be.

Don't get me wrong, I -blam!- love Halo, but there are better sci-fi universes out there. Star Wars has infinitely more depth than Halo. Marathon and Halo are only connected in that they were developed by the same company, so Halo has 10 years on it. Star Wars has 30. That's 20 more years of time to add and expand to the Universe.

Also, the stuff Halo does with this 3 factions stuff which you seem to just gobble up isn't ONLY in Halo. Mass Effect has done it as well. Various TV series like Star Trek/Gate do it.

Halo isn't a unique, super deep story. It's a great one with potential to expand, but it isn't the best gosh durn story ever.

Also, you're CLEARLY a fanboy who really doesn't read other's posts or really think about them.

And another thing. When you use commas,you put a space in between the commas. Also, if you use the letter i it should be capitalized,trust me man,but go ahead,i'm listening...

  • 07.25.2011 3:40 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Posted by: hotshot revan II
See there is your problem,as Frank o Connor recently said:all storys are part of eachother and are connected to eachother and do have a purpose.


I'm pretty sure that's why I said Halo (as in the whole canon) is generic science fiction, instead of singling out a particular game or book. I'm also fairly certain, by golly, that most people already understand that and don't need the brain-trust at 343 to dole that information out like it's some grand secret.

How about you tell me why Marathon is more special.

Subtlety. Depth. Not devolving into science-fiction stereotyping. Marathon is a unique science-fiction universe which stands apart from all other games in the genre. Hell, the fact that Halo borrowed from it in many places should highlight that fact. Little in the Marathon games had been done before, whereas the Halo series is often little more than a smattering of motifs seen in other properties.

  • 07.25.2011 3:56 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Placid Platypus
Subtlety. Depth.

Could you briefly outline one or two examples of this?

  • 07.25.2011 4:18 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Posted by: anton1792
Could you briefly outline one or two examples of this?


Quickest example I can think of is Marathon: Infinity itself. The Security Officer begins the game at it's end, but then is thrown through the universe's timeline, reliving past experiences, altering them to generate the desired outcome, and constantly changing allegiances and his own past to do so. Even then, that is an incredibly dumbed down description of what happens. The sheer bulk of Infinity is driven by a very meta-physical story that requires attentive reading of the terminals and knowledge of the whole series to understand.

[Edited on 07.25.2011 4:56 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2011 4:47 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Sci-fi and fantasy are incredibly similar, and Halo has NOTHING on Tolkien.


I'm still waiting for your explantion

Halo's got a decent story, but it's not as deep as it should be.


It's deep enough

Don't get me wrong, I -blam!- love Halo, but there are better sci-fi universes out there. Star Wars has infinitely more depth than Halo. Marathon and Halo are only connected in that they were developed by the same company, so Halo has 10 years on it. Star Wars has 30. That's 20 more years of time to add and expand to the Universe.

Listen kid or man,there is a huge difference between story depth and quantity,what you are saying about Star Wars is mostly quantitiy because it has hundreds of books,comics,games,far more then any franchise out there.
Learn the difference between the two before saying something like that

Halo Quality>Star Wars quality

Star Wars has more canon errors then Halo ever had.An example: gizor delso was killed by Anakain in the third movie,yet he appears again the battlefront II,clone wars contradicted alot of things in starwars(not even worth mentioning them),...i can go on.

Now other franchises like Halo have errors too,but Halo has nothing more then small necessary retcons like Elites were first encountered at Reach BS,but then we had the game Reach that changed alot but luckily it mostly just expanded the battle,Red and Blue team missions are intact and so on.

Bungie created the Halo story bible which contains all background information of the Halo verse,why else do you think that things that appeared in Cryptum were already hinted at years before it's release.


Also, the stuff Halo does with this 3 factions stuff which you seem to just gobble up isn't ONLY in Halo. Mass Effect has done it as well. Various TV series like Star Trek/Gate do it.


And?You imply as if i said Halo has a unique story(my apoligies if i understood you wrong).
But you just slapped yourselfs..Tolkien stuff had been done alot of times too.
Franchises always borrow ideas from eachother,that's how they grow and there is nothing unique out there.So please don't put Halo in a single categorie while others fit in it too.

Halo isn't a unique, super deep story. It's a great one with potential to expand, but it isn't the best gosh durn story ever.


I agree with unique but that goes for ALL other franchises out there, but it's one of the deepest i have seen. If you trully w-want to understand the story then you should read the books and actually think about what you read,like the theorists on this forum who make theorys based on hints from the books .

And again i bet you can't see the difference between depth and quantity .Best story ever doesn't exist,perfect story doesn't exist either.We all know that.

Also, you're CLEARLY a fanboy who really doesn't read other's posts or really think about them.


Ad Hominem

I do,you -blam!- claimed Tolkien's story is better then Halo,i asked to prove it but you still failed at doing it except the subject about the differences between the two genres.

And another thing. When you use commas,you put a space in between the commas. Also, if you use the letter i it should be capitalized,trust me man,but go ahead,i'm listening...


Ironiqally how the sentence you just typed barely has any space between the commas as well.
You didn't captitalized some "i" in your post either.

Do i sense an appeal to emotion or am i just tired in the middle of night?

I'm pretty sure that's why I said Halo (as in the whole canon) is generic science fiction, instead of singling out a particular game or book. I'm also fairly certain, by golly, that most people already understand that and don't need the brain-trust at 343 to dole that information out like it's some grand secret.

Which is why people who only play the game barely know anything,how many times did i encountered someone who thinks the Covies built the rings.
Going into it a little deep gives you even more info


Subtlety. Depth. Not devolving into science-fiction stereotyping. Marathon is a unique science-fiction universe which stands apart from all other games in the genre. Hell, the fact that Halo borrowed from it in many places should highlight that fact. Little in the Marathon games had been done before, whereas the Halo series is often little more than a smattering of motifs seen in other properties.

And Halo isn't?
I agree that Halo isn't unique and has some stereotypes like Johnson but Marathon isn't unique either.I'm pretty sure Bungie looked at other sciencefiction series before,that's how newcomers to genre start at it,they first look at previous works.


[Edited on 07.25.2011 4:49 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2011 4:48 PM PDT

I wake up to find myself
After all these years
And where all the time has gone
Still seems so unclear

Posted by: Potomo
This. Marathon is more deep with its 3 games than Halo is with all it's novels, comics, games, and those group of animations in Legends.

Don't get me wrong, I like Halo. I've read all the novels and played the games and do find it interesting, but it lacks the depth and consistency that Marathon still has.


This. I was thinking most of what you typed on the first page. Halo is great and I love it, but Marathon's story(Read: Terminal references, etc.) is much more in depth than any of Halo. With Halo, I could infer most of the lore and mystery that they've hinted at, but with Marathon, I had really think about it and look up stuff. It was far more fun to figure out.

  • 07.25.2011 4:49 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Ad Hominem

I'm sorry everybody I just have to jump in here, it'll only take a second...

Ad hominem is not necessarily a personal attack during a debate, it's if he's trying to make a connection between you being a stupid fanboy and your ill-conceived arguments and stating that those arguments you've made are illegitimized by your fanboyitude. Which doesn't seem, to me at least, like what he's doing.

As well, ad hominem is not necessarily an illegitimate means of argumentation. If he were trying to make the claim that you are a pompous, blind and stubborn fanboy and therefore your arguments on the matter are biased and cannot be taken seriously, that would be valid.

Thanks everyone for taking a time out here for a bit of education. Just your friendly neighbourhood dahuterschuter with a little lesson in debating. Please resume.

[Edited on 07.25.2011 5:17 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2011 5:05 PM PDT

We kill that which we do not understand...and then promptly tea-bag it.

Ha! I raise your Star Wars, and give you Star Wars: Clone Wars!

  • 07.25.2011 5:10 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Ageless Durandal
Posted by: Potomo
This. Marathon is more deep with its 3 games than Halo is with all it's novels, comics, games, and those group of animations in Legends.

Don't get me wrong, I like Halo. I've read all the novels and played the games and do find it interesting, but it lacks the depth and consistency that Marathon still has.


This. I was thinking most of what you typed on the first page. Halo is great and I love it, but Marathon's story(Read: Terminal references, etc.) is much more in depth than any of Halo. With Halo, I could infer most of the lore and mystery that they've hinted at, but with Marathon, I had really think about it and look up stuff. It was far more fun to figure out.


Saying it contains more depth then everything combined is laughable,so far all my questions are left unanswered so i'll do it again: why does the Marathon verse has more depth then Halo and why is it unique in the industry?

Then what makes you think this exists:
http://www.halopedian.com/Iris

http://www.halopedian.com/Cortana_letters

http://www.halopedian.com/Terminals

http://www.halopedian.com/Reversed_Messages



If Halo hasn't depth,then why do theories like this came to be?:

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=33381763

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=35949941

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=37907931&p ostRepeater1-p=7#47042306


  • 07.25.2011 5:13 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: hotshot revan II
Ad Hominem

I'm sorry everybody I just have to jump in here, it'll only take a second...

Ad hominem is not necessarily a personaly attack during a debate, it's if he's trying to make a connection between you being a stupid fanboy and your ill-conceived arguments and stating that those arguments you've made are illegitimized by your fanboyitude. Which doesn't seem, to me at least, like what he's doing.

As well, ad hominem is not necessarily an illegitimate means of argumentation. If he were trying to make the claim that you are a pompous, blind and stubborn fanboy and therefore your arguments on the matter are biased and cannot be taken seriously, that would be valid.

Thanks everyone for taking a time out here for a bit of education. Just your friendly neighbourhood dahuterschuter with a little lesson in debating. Please resume.


To me it was.

Your points are correct but he didn't only called me a fanboy,but his reasons were "who really doesn't read other's posts or really think about them.", it indirectly referred to my arguments.

The definition of ad homimen is "argument against the man not the point" instead of giving an answer at my original question,he starts to talk about other things and then insults me and my arguments > indirectly.

If that doesn't sounds like ad hominem to you then fine.

BTW are you agreeing with that little dumbass that i'm a fanboy?By saying :

between you being a stupid fanboy and your ill-conceived arguments and stating that those arguments you've made are illegitimized by your fanboyitude.

If it isn't then sorry but make you point clear.

If you do then i have to say this:

So if i start to defend Halo against retarded posts makes me a fanboy?I can reverse the situation and call you haters,but you will probably respond by saying that you are a Halo fan,nice.

But i'm not a rabid Halo fanboy.
A rabid fan would think the story is perfect,original,on flaws,...and so on.Which i clearly don't think or do i?

I'm still waiting for my original question to several of you,the lack of valid answers is clear to me that they didn't put any thought in their post before writing,or among other reasons...



[Edited on 07.25.2011 5:27 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2011 5:22 PM PDT