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This topic has moved here: Subject: Depth in Halo Universe is Unmatched
  • Subject: Depth in Halo Universe is Unmatched
Subject: Depth in Halo Universe is Unmatched

You are the one being ignorant because in the options menu you can change it to first person.
Posted by: WoolyTom
Battlefront is 3rd person so dont be so ignorant yourself

Posted by: WoolyTom
Battlefront is 3rd person so dont be so ignorant yourself

  • 07.31.2011 12:53 PM PDT

I am definately a moron huh? Everything I stated was pure fact sure you have like I said all of these counters that are mere scrambles to not make the games look like they have plot holes. Look at some of the explanations. You also never addressed Sgt. Johnson who only has one explained death. I am a troll how? Its a forum you state your opinions you are the one who is trolling for disecting my comment and failing at it. But I really dont care what you say because I have read many of the books and you still well know star wars far surpasses halo in expanded content. Why could the covenant speak it but didnt? Exactly its all half-assed ways of keeping the universe alive. I will respond to nothing further. TROLL FAIL
Posted by: Uriel S167

Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
In Halo Reach there are what ten different types of elites and rank distinction among them. However directly following this in Halo CE that dissapears.


It's still there. All of the ranks of Elites are at least mentioned or seen in Halo 2, 3, and ODST. Do some homework, you fail.

In Halo Reach all of the Covenant speak their native tounge yet that changes somehow so they all speak English fluently like a month later.


If you had ever bothered to read any of the fiction, not to mention the Canon lore that comes with the Limited and/or Legendary Editions of the games, then you would know that they retconned the inconsistencies in the Canon for when Reach was released.

In Halsey's Journal (conveniently included with Limited and Legendary Editions), the dates start back around the time of First Contact/Harvest. In there she mentions the Covenant, and how they have been apparently scouting us out and watching us for years. She says this about the Covenant;

"They know our worlds, and where we live. They have scouted out our weaknesses, and they even speak our language. Yet we know almost nothing of them."

This is how the Elites and most of the rest of the Covenant know how to speak English (only the Prophets, Sangheli, and some Grunts though, no one else's mouths/intellects are capable of it).

Apparently even the Elites did more research on Halo than you did. Have you even bothered to look into Halo Canon more than just the cut-scenes/Terminals/Data Pads strewn throughout the games?

I didn't think so.


I would strongly suggest that you find out at least a little about the Universe before you speak of things you know (obviously) nothing about.

You are not just a troll, you are a failure of a troll.

Like Carter told Halsey in the depths of the glacier under Sword Base.

Halsey: "That Data is classified Tier 1. I could have you thrown in the brig for attempting to interrupt my work."

Carter: "Maybe you'd like to join her."

Halsey: "I'm sorry?!"

Carter: "We're currently under Emergency Planetary Directive Winter Contingency. I'm certain that you're familiar with the punishment for civilian interference in a Spartan Deployment?"

Halsey: "Are you threatening me, Commander?"

Carter: "Just making a reading suggestion , Ma'am."


Like Carter, just making a reading suggestion. Try reading the Lore of Halo which then builds the Canon.

Then you'll know what you are talking about and won't look like a moron.

  • 07.31.2011 1:02 PM PDT


Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
I am definately a moron huh? Everything I stated was pure fact sure you have like I said all of these counters that are mere scrambles to not make the games look like they have plot holes. Look at some of the explanations. You also never addressed Sgt. Johnson who only has one explained death. I am a troll how? Its a forum you state your opinions you are the one who is trolling for disecting my comment and failing at it. But I really dont care what you say because I have read many of the books and you still well know star wars far surpasses halo in expanded content. Why could the covenant speak it but didnt? Exactly its all half-assed ways of keeping the universe alive. I will respond to nothing further. TROLL FAIL
Posted by: Uriel S167

Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
In Halo Reach there are what ten different types of elites and rank distinction among them. However directly following this in Halo CE that dissapears.


It's still there. All of the ranks of Elites are at least mentioned or seen in Halo 2, 3, and ODST. Do some homework, you fail.

In Halo Reach all of the Covenant speak their native tounge yet that changes somehow so they all speak English fluently like a month later.


If you had ever bothered to read any of the fiction, not to mention the Canon lore that comes with the Limited and/or Legendary Editions of the games, then you would know that they retconned the inconsistencies in the Canon for when Reach was released.

In Halsey's Journal (conveniently included with Limited and Legendary Editions), the dates start back around the time of First Contact/Harvest. In there she mentions the Covenant, and how they have been apparently scouting us out and watching us for years. She says this about the Covenant;

"They know our worlds, and where we live. They have scouted out our weaknesses, and they even speak our language. Yet we know almost nothing of them."

This is how the Elites and most of the rest of the Covenant know how to speak English (only the Prophets, Sangheli, and some Grunts though, no one else's mouths/intellects are capable of it).

Apparently even the Elites did more research on Halo than you did. Have you even bothered to look into Halo Canon more than just the cut-scenes/Terminals/Data Pads strewn throughout the games?

I didn't think so.


I would strongly suggest that you find out at least a little about the Universe before you speak of things you know (obviously) nothing about.

You are not just a troll, you are a failure of a troll.

Like Carter told Halsey in the depths of the glacier under Sword Base.

Halsey: "That Data is classified Tier 1. I could have you thrown in the brig for attempting to interrupt my work."

Carter: "Maybe you'd like to join her."

Halsey: "I'm sorry?!"

Carter: "We're currently under Emergency Planetary Directive Winter Contingency. I'm certain that you're familiar with the punishment for civilian interference in a Spartan Deployment?"

Halsey: "Are you threatening me, Commander?"

Carter: "Just making a reading suggestion , Ma'am."


Like Carter, just making a reading suggestion. Try reading the Lore of Halo which then builds the Canon.

Then you'll know what you are talking about and won't look like a moron.
I also forgot to add uou fail because not ALL of the elite ranks were mentioned and even so that was only in Halo 3 and slightely in 2. TROLL FAIL again

  • 07.31.2011 1:04 PM PDT
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You just gotta give respect to the RPG games of today , they have so much content . I think Halo would definitely be able to fill the role of an RPG . But not as a full on game , more like an expansion of the game (much like Halo Wars)

  • 07.31.2011 1:04 PM PDT

De to nearly all of your information about Star Wars being false it is clear to me you know nothing about it and therefore I will not even bother debating with you.
Posted by: hotshot revan II
That's a response to my original posts right?Then at least say it's directed at me.

First of all Halo is a videogame franshise and will honestly never come close to Star Wars in Expanded Universe.


And?

If You ask 10 people I guarantee especially younge children or girls that they will be more familiar with Star Wars than Halo.


Ofcourse because star wars has been around longer and it started as a movie franchise. Movies are available to everyone, Halo is limited to xbox and not many people in the world have an xbox.And star wars in this days caters more to kids with clone wars and lego then adults like before(excluding the EU)

Star Wars' expanded universe is unmatched. Quantity goes to Star Wars as with depth.


That's the downfall of Star Wars too. There are to many books,to many comics and games to control. New books will always contradict the older because it's nigh impossible to keep the canon intact if there are too many -blam!- books.Why else do you think other franchises limit their EU to a few book a year?

Quantity goes to star wars,no other franchise can beat it but again quality>>>>>>quantity
Quantity can be a downfall especially if those can"t keep their canon intact.




Everything in Star Wars is connected somehow or another. The Universe spans a time period that is so far beyond Halo's.


There is the confirmation of what i thought previously when i read your post. You don't know anything about Halo.

According to the wookiepedia timeline the first evolved species arrived at a few millions years before the movies.

In the case of Halo it's HUNDREDS of millions of years because Precursor structures are that old.
It even goes to 2-3 billion years if Greg Bear wasn't joking at comic con.

The funny thing is the entire Halo verse is connected to eachother, Frankie said it and we can notice it too.
Look at those

All actions in the Halo verse wouldn't have existed if it were not for the Precursors.They were the ones who seeded our galaxy with life.So that means they created all species.But Humans and Forerunners seem to have another purpose then other species,they are brother species and were created by the Precursors for an unknown purpose that will be revealed latter.

Then they screwed things up ,Forerunners wiped the Precursors out.The Timeles One has his revenge which might be the Flood.And all of this leads into wars between Humans,Flood and 4 runners and we all know it leads into the Human Covenant war.And in Halo 4 and beyond ,the purpose of us will finally be revealed like reclaiming the mantle,defeating the ancient evil ,...

You see of all of the events are fully connected?

Unlike star Wars, the Halo Humanity actually has a yet unknown purpose in the universe.

Star Wars had originally been about the tragedy of Anakin,balance of light and dark , in that regard Star Wars has actually depth.(i'm talking about quality depth now and not quantity)
The EU doesn't follows that anymore as there are siths after Anakins death.

That was George Lucas his intent, the confrontations between good and evil.

In Halo it's about the Precursor-Forerunner plan,our reclaimer status and so on.It goes far deeper here,more then Star Wars.

So both of the Franchises have their own thing and it's stupid to compare these.

The confliction of the dark side within one's self is meatphorical and far beyond the true depth of Halo's "shoot to kill".


LMAO Halo isn't just about shoot and kill but hey i'm talking to someone who didn't do his homework well.


Star wars is all about the ripple effect and everything has a consequence sometimes thousands of years in the future.


That was the case what George Lucas did but alot of EU works screwed it up why else do you think he doesn't considers the EU as his own universe.Just read his interviews about the star wars canon.


You say Star Wars has continuity errors?
You must be joking. Not only do you posses false info about it (look it up) but Halo has some of the worst continuity errors I have ever seen.



Straight from the mouth of a warsie.You don't even know your own franchise well so i will explain it to you like a little kid who needs a bit education:

Here is just a taste :
-Gizor Delso was killed by anakan in the third move
-In battlefront II it was said he was alive

-Even Piells death

This kind of things are -blam!- stupid as hell,the funny thing is they didn't corrected those mistakes yet.Hell there are other canon errors like those caused by the Clone Wars to the star wars work of Traviss.

In Halo Reach there are what ten different types of elites and rank distinction among them.


How the hell does that ruins canon?

However directly following this in Halo CE that dissapears.


You whelp i have no words for the stupidy you just spit out

In Halo Reach all of the Covenant speak their native tounge yet that changes somehow so they all speak english fluently like a month later.


Ditto

How about the many deathsof Sgt. Johnson only one explained (poorly I might add) and despite how I could go on why bother.


ROFLMAO this is getting hiliarious.Johnsons death?You realise that his escape from Halo has been explained in First Strike,he was immune to the Flood and escaped on a pelican with a few others then met the Chief in space

In that hugging elite cutscene is non canon anyway...

The Halo universe has several small retcons which were necessary,the only large error was Halo Reach but luckily it can easily be explained.It's just the original fall of reach but more expanded,blue and red missions are still intact.

Halo is superficial and categorical for science fiction. Face it. Half of the things in the Haloverse are thrown together very sloppy.


Says someone who hasn't read a single Halo piece fiction and doesn't knows a -blam!- about the games like the language and rank issue.

I am also ammused how you question others and ask for specific examples but can provide none on your own.


The funny thing is that they were the ones who claimed things not me.I asked but they didn't answered.

Look at the facts and stopm being a fanboy. I love Halo games and the expanded universe for it but I can also accept the fact that star wars has far more depth and is far larger.


Quality>>>>>>>quanity

You call me a fanboy huh?Look at your own post,so many holes in it that it resembles a moon with thousands of craters, who is here the rabid fanboy now.

Thanks for the laugh man i look forward to your next one ;)

  • 07.31.2011 1:15 PM PDT

BTW look up Gilzo Delso on Wookepedia and do the same for the rest of youyr false information

  • 07.31.2011 1:20 PM PDT

Enough, stop double posting, and stop quoting, or at least cut the quoting down. Now one wants to look through all of that.

  • 07.31.2011 1:23 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
The confliction of the dark side within one's self is meatphorical and far beyond the true depth of Halo's "shoot to kill".

Whether or not Star Wars' themes and messages are deeper than Halo's is honestly not a debate worth getting into, (Nor do I believe it has any truth at the end of it) but you evidently know nothing about Halo if you think it is simply "Shoot and Kill". Do not slander things that you have not a clue in the slightest about. Just because you are completely ignorant of something does not mean that it is not true.

Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
Everything in Star Wars is connected somehow or another.

As is Halo.

Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
Star wars is all about the ripple effect and everything has a consequence sometimes thousands of years in the future.

If you cannot see why your implication here is just plain ignorant then you are a lost cause. Did you just play through the games and not bloody pay attention to anything that was shown or spoken? Or do you indeed lack the intellectual capacity to understand it? (I would not be surprised) Halo's entire story is a consequence of actions in the distant past. You know....Humanity being given Reclaimer status, which inadvertently was the cause for the Human-Covenant war? Gregg Bear, the author of Halo Cryptum, has implied that the entirety of Halo is an approach to what happens when God like beings screw up badly. (Precursors)

Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
You say Star Wars has continuity errors? You must be joking. Not only do you posses false info about it (look it up) but Halo has some of the worst continuity errors I have ever seen.

Heh, Irony. Let's see why that is: V

Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
In Halo Reach there are what ten different types of elites and rank distinction among them. However directly following this in Halo CE that dissapears.

Because the Covenant are not allowed to have different military branches, each with their own ranking structure and aesthetic?

Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
In Halo Reach all of the Covenant speak their native tounge yet that changes somehow so they all speak english fluently like a month later.

How dare you criticise something that you have not even bothered your lazy arse researching. You have the cheek to berate someone for not doing research yet you do it yourself? Something as simple as this should not even be a problem. When Cortana reverse-engineered a Lexicon from a Covenant AI it allowed her to translate from Covenant to English. When they got back to Earth this software was handed over to the UNSC, which they then upgraded their translation software with.

Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
How about the many deathsof Sgt. Johnson only one explained (poorly I might add) and despite how I could go on why bother.

Many deaths of Johnson? Could you elaborate here a little?

Your arguments are spectacularly weak, like your intellect, and your entire stance can essentially be summarised with "Pot calling the Kettle Black".

  • 07.31.2011 2:19 PM PDT
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UWG Great group, you should check it out.

BungieHUB

I agree.

  • 07.31.2011 2:21 PM PDT

Flood's and Universe's Warhammer 40k fanatic and the one who knows much about it.

I also like House Stark and winter, hurr.

I'm now going to come in and nominate 40k as the most depth having scifi fantasy world out there.

This argument I will back up with following fluff:

Quite developed storyline of +42 thousand years
Numerous rulebooks and source books
Horus heresy series
Ravenor series
Eisenhorn series
Path of the - series
Ultramarines series
Last chancers series
Night lords series
Ciaphas cain series
Gaunt's ghost series
Space wolf series
Inquisition wars series
Space marine battles series
Gothic war series
Armageddon omnibus
Necromunda series
Grey knight series
Soul drinker series
Kill squad omnibus
Bastion wars series
Blood angels series
Sister of battle novels
Word bearer series
Numerous other books
Storm of iron ,has to be mentioned as invidual book, it's too sweet to be forgotten under mass of other books


Special thanks for xd00999 for fixing.

inb4mistakesinsomething

---

I'd also like to say that canon mistakes dont make the depth that much worse. Since pretty much every scifi has those, listing them in hope of finding serious plotholes is atleast in my eyes quite useless.

Especially when such are few.

[Edited on 08.01.2011 5:24 AM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 2:32 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Johnson was originally a joke, they included him for fun and he was elevated to full character status in H2. In CE he was just a background character who had little to no effect on the story. In H2 he directly affected the story so they couldn't have him die every other level.

@ Teekuppi: You missed Armageddon omnibus, Necromunda omnibus, Kill Squad omnibus, Bastion Wars, Enforcer, Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Word Bearers, Sisters of Battle, and various other one-offs.

  • 07.31.2011 4:14 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: MMS REBORN 360
BTW look up Gilzo Delso on Wookepedia and do the same for the rest of youyr false information


I did ,yes it's my mistake .I mistaked gizor for being the same geonosian as the one that appeared in episode II and III.

But the rest of my info is still correct, so far you couldn't counter those points but start claim i spit false info out.

My point still stands.

Go check you own goddamn wikia and stop being a -blam!- cry-blam!-

  • 07.31.2011 4:41 PM PDT

It's definatly my favorite universe by far. No other story says epic as well as Halo for me.

  • 07.31.2011 4:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Alfdog
It's definatly my favorite universe by far. No other story says epic as well as Halo for me.

Agreed

  • 08.01.2011 3:43 AM PDT

Key theme in halo is:

Everything will die.

Summary of Halo:

100,000 years ago, everything died.

In current time, 2552, almost everything dies.

  • 08.01.2011 4:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: Wazooty
Key theme in halo is:

Everything will die.

Summary of Halo:

100,000 years ago, everything died.

In current time, 2552, almost everything dies.


Dude do you know anything about Halo ? Maybe you should turn your xbox on and play so halo

  • 08.01.2011 10:27 AM PDT

oBSΩLE†e

OP: Unmatched? I don't think so. If you compared the Haloverse to say, Killzone or Resstance, then yes. But not when compared to works that have been around for decades and have had to time to grow and develop: Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Tolkien's works, Herbert's, and even Asimov's (poorly conceived) Robot and Empire series are way more detailed and deep than Helo's.

I think Halo is better - but that's personal preference. I love the Haloverse; it's evocative, relevant and truly zeitgeist and just so cool! And even though I didn't enjoy Reach's campaign, I still like what it brought to the table.

But to give a general sweeping statement on an open forum and not expect the kind of backlash you've received (and risen to) is a bit daft. And to demand people back up their OPINIONS and VIEWS while you don't is a bit childish - why don't you to validate your argument? A few wiki posts and forum theories are not validation nor argument winners.

I could sit an PM you all day about the finer points of the Haloverse - like I say, I love it - but for a grandoise statement like that, either compare it to a game of equal vision (say Resistance, Half-Life, Killzone) or provide an argument as to why you think the canon so far is unmatched to something like Herbert's Dune universe, Tolkien's Middle Earth, or even the BattleTech setting(!) and I'm sure you'd spark a more enlightened debate (aprt from those that will always post "but you smell" statements).

And yes, you can compare fantasy to sci0fi - why? they both fiction.

  • 08.01.2011 1:10 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Are you joking? The Haloverse is quite underdeveloped in terms of sci-fi universes.


but has high potential
Potential?!? Potential is something you talk about before the first game ships or after one game is completed. Potential is not something you talk about after 5 games and God knows how many novels. At this point, the only potential we should be discussing with respect to Halo is unfulfilled potential.

Also Halo doesn't have depth, it has breadth. Those two are not the same. The games and books contain a great deal of information and numerous possible story threads, but Halo rarely exhibits any true depth.

Master Chief is a flat character. He is a gung ho, always faithful, unquestioning super soldier. He never changes, evolves, or improves himself. He never contemplates the destruction he creates nor does anyone question his penchant for massacring aliens wholesale without ever questioning any orders.

Cortana is a flat character. She had potential (particularly in Halo First Strike where she was fragmenting herself and stretching her own limits). She is able to think on her own, but ultimately always strives to defend humanity. One could argue she deserves a few points for self-sacrifice at the end of Halo 2, but in Halo 3 she is neither driven insane by her isolation and exposure to the Gravemind nor does she change any of her opinions on humanity. On the contrary, she is little more than a damsel in distress waiting in the locked tower for her knight in green armor. Her hints at rampancy are at best tacked on and at worst offensive to Marathon, the game they are referencing.

The Prophet of Truth is a flat character. Had he known the true purpose of the Halos and used the lie of the "Great Journey" as cover for eliminating the other prophets, compromising the military authority of the elites, and grabbing ultimate dictatorial control of the Covenant, he could have been interesting. At the end of the day, he just tries to activate all the Halos, blindly following without ever understanding. What could have been sinister calculation and deceit proved nothing more than ignorant fanaticism.


Posted by: Placid Platypus
Posted by: dahuterschuter
The Haloverse is quite underdeveloped in terms of sci-fi universes.


Seconded.
To illustrate: Marathon vs. Halo
Halo isn't anything special; just generic humans fighting aliens science-fiction. There is nothing subtle or overly intelligent about the game's universe. The potential is there, sure, but it's being used in the same way a tree has the potential to be beautiful but instead gets milled into single-ply toilet paper.

Tru7h.

Posted by: hotshot revan II
How about you tell me why Marathon is more special

Marathon has depth

  • 08.01.2011 4:18 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

How many halo novels have you read? Do you even understand them if you read any?

  • 08.01.2011 4:48 PM PDT
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There is new books being published soon , which will yet again expand Halo

  • 08.04.2011 1:20 AM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

DEATHPIMP72: *throws pterodactyl on table*
Suck it JoeSki!!!

Maybe in terms of fiction begun in video games. But several other fictional universes (damn, is that proper plural?) are just as deep, if not more so.

  • 08.04.2011 5:52 AM PDT

Perspective. You need it. Halo is good because of the gameplay, the story is pretty generic stuff. That doesn't mean it's bad, but it's not anything special. You just happen to like it more than other stories, which is just fine.

  • 08.04.2011 6:48 AM PDT
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Can you define depth ?because halo has the depth I know ! It's plot just killed me ...with everything connected ... The forerunners... The flood... The presudors (wrong spelling I know) with so much to know about...when I first played halo (halo 2 on it's release date...) I thought this game has everything to make it the best game of all time !!! There was a time I thought that it will be real...yes I knOw I'm a real big fan of halo but starwars is nothing compared to halo ....yes halo is only 10 and sw is 30 but really when I played starwars the first time I felt boring...never ever in my life have I felt boring in halo ever ! Really if you think starwars has more depth than halo go hang out on starwArs forum not on halo... And no matter what you say halo is the deepest game I've ever played ( I'm sorry I'm using my iPhone it's hard to write so I might have some grammar , spelling mistakes and this is not all what I want to say but using iPhone takes alot of time.

  • 08.04.2011 6:53 AM PDT
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"Usually, the good Lord works in mysterious ways. But not today! This here is 66 tons of straight-up, H.E-spewing dee-vine intervention! If God is love, then you can call me Cupid!"

-Sgt. Johnson, Halo 2

*cough*Warhammer 40k*cough*

  • 08.04.2011 6:55 AM PDT


Posted by: kkrotz

Posted by: Wazooty
Key theme in halo is:

Everything will die.

Summary of Halo:

100,000 years ago, everything died.

In current time, 2552, almost everything dies.


Dude do you know anything about Halo ? Maybe you should turn your xbox on and play so halo


Man you are stupid.

  • 08.04.2011 7:16 AM PDT