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Subject: Spartan IIs vs Spartan IIIs. Which class is better?


Posted by: grey101
use the search bar on this topic and just read the posts, i have no feel for retyping a novel

I read the novel... multiple years ago but still. I do not remeber hearing they had equal augmentation. As i stated earlier i thought the augmentation was weaker but able to be used on more people with less risk of CALAMITY.

  • 07.25.2011 3:25 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Uncarinelf

Posted by: grey101
use the search bar on this topic and just read the posts, i have no feel for retyping a novel

I read the novel... multiple years ago but still. I do not remeber hearing they had equal augmentation. As i stated earlier i thought the augmentation was weaker but able to be used on more people with less risk of CALAMITY.


Both had their skeletons hardened, both had increased muscle density, both had improved eye sight, and both had enhanced reaction times. The reason more survived wasn't because the augmentations were weaker, but because they were safer. In the case of Gamma Company, they have a distinct edge over the Spartan-IIs, they are tougher to kill thanks to the neural-altering non-carcinogenic mutagen.

  • 07.25.2011 3:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Uncarinelf

Posted by: grey101
use the search bar on this topic and just read the posts, i have no feel for retyping a novel

I read the novel... multiple years ago but still. I do not remeber hearing they had equal augmentation. As i stated earlier i thought the augmentation was weaker but able to be used on more people with less risk of CALAMITY.


No. They had the same augmentations, but there was less risk of disability from them due to advances in medical sciences from the S-II program. They had the same training, except there was a definitive emphasis on teamwork. Their equipment was only worse because there were so many S-III's being trained, augmented, and outfitted.

  • 07.25.2011 3:31 PM PDT


Posted by: Uncarinelf

Posted by: grey101
use the search bar on this topic and just read the posts, i have no feel for retyping a novel[/quote]
I read the novel... multiple years ago but still. I do not remeber hearing they had equal augmentation. As i stated earlier i thought the augmentation was weaker but able to be used on more people with less risk of CALAMITY.


Both had their skeletons hardened, both had increased muscle density, both had improved eye sight, and both had enhanced reaction times. The reason more survived wasn't because the augmentations were weaker, but because they were safer. In the case of Gamma Company, they have a distinct edge over the Spartan-IIs, they are tougher to kill thanks to the neural-altering non-carcinogenic mutagen.

And the members with Fred and Kelly on Onyx are Gamma?

  • 07.25.2011 3:31 PM PDT



Posted by: Uncarinelf

Posted by: grey101
use the search bar on this topic and just read the posts, i have no feel for retyping a novel[/quote]
I read the novel... multiple years ago but still. I do not remeber hearing they had equal augmentation. As i stated earlier i thought the augmentation was weaker but able to be used on more people with less risk of CALAMITY.


No. They had the same augmentations, but there was less risk of disability from them due to advances in medical sciences from the S-II program. They had the same training, except there was a definitive emphasis on teamwork. Their equipment was only worse because there were so many S-III's being trained, augmented, and outfitted.

From what I remember of Fall of Reach there was a pretty big emphasis on team work for 2's as well.

  • 07.25.2011 3:32 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Uncarinelf

Posted by: Uncarinelf

Posted by: grey101
use the search bar on this topic and just read the posts, i have no feel for retyping a novel[/quote]
I read the novel... multiple years ago but still. I do not remeber hearing they had equal augmentation. As i stated earlier i thought the augmentation was weaker but able to be used on more people with less risk of CALAMITY.


Both had their skeletons hardened, both had increased muscle density, both had improved eye sight, and both had enhanced reaction times. The reason more survived wasn't because the augmentations were weaker, but because they were safer. In the case of Gamma Company, they have a distinct edge over the Spartan-IIs, they are tougher to kill thanks to the neural-altering non-carcinogenic mutagen.

And the members with Fred and Kelly on Onyx are Gamma?


Si senor. Ever wonder why Dante said he "got nicked" when it turned out he got royally tore up by needler shards? He was so pumped up with aggression and adrenaline he didn't feel anything. I think his heart wasn't even working while he was still fighting.

  • 07.25.2011 3:33 PM PDT


Posted by: Uncarinelf

Posted by: grey101
use the search bar on this topic and just read the posts, i have no feel for retyping a novel[/quote]
I read the novel... multiple years ago but still. I do not remeber hearing they had equal augmentation. As i stated earlier i thought the augmentation was weaker but able to be used on more people with less risk of CALAMITY.[/quote]

Both had their skeletons hardened, both had increased muscle density, both had improved eye sight, and both had enhanced reaction times. The reason more survived wasn't because the augmentations were weaker, but because they were safer. In the case of Gamma Company, they have a distinct edge over the Spartan-IIs, they are tougher to kill thanks to the neural-altering non-carcinogenic mutagen.[/quote]
And the members with Fred and Kelly on Onyx are Gamma?


Si senor. Ever wonder why Dante said he "got nicked" when it turned out he got royally tore up by needler shards? He was so pumped up with aggression and adrenaline he didn't feel anything. I think his heart wasn't even working while he was still fighting.

I remember the scene but barely. It may be time to give this and first strike a re-read. Iv re-read all other halo books in 2011.

  • 07.25.2011 3:35 PM PDT

"On the seventh day, god did not rest, but rather he created 64 player multiplayer!"


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Hydrilus
Besides armor, there are also subtle, yet important pieces of their training that are different. Spartan 2's are, by far, much more disciplined and focused. Spartan 3's seem to be much more opinionated, and reckless... That's not good for survival, which, obviously, they haven't been very successful at.


Spartan III training was designed to be better in tactics, teamwork, and strategies.

They would use those to complete objectives, not fancy gear.

I don't get this super-reckless stuff...


Take a look at the recruiting process for the Spartan 3 program compared to Spartan 2's... Those recruited for the Spartan 2 program were selected based on a strict list of characteristics. It was like trying to form a team of race horses, except all of the horses had to be champions. Recruiting for the Spartan 3 program was like going to an animal shelter and adopting all the mutts, training them (quickly) and then sending them to their death.

  • 07.25.2011 3:39 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Hydrilus

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Hydrilus
Besides armor, there are also subtle, yet important pieces of their training that are different. Spartan 2's are, by far, much more disciplined and focused. Spartan 3's seem to be much more opinionated, and reckless... That's not good for survival, which, obviously, they haven't been very successful at.


Spartan III training was designed to be better in tactics, teamwork, and strategies.

They would use those to complete objectives, not fancy gear.

I don't get this super-reckless stuff...


Take a look at the recruiting process for the Spartan 3 program compared to Spartan 2's... Those recruited for the Spartan 2 program were selected based on a strict list of characteristics. It was like trying to form a team of race horses, except all of the horses had to be champions. Recruiting for the Spartan 3 program was like going to an animal shelter and adopting all the mutts, training them (quickly) and then sending them to their death.


They still had structure in the recruiting process. Ackerson wanted to just snatch up any kid and hope for the best, Kurt made sure they stuck to their genetic markers.

  • 07.25.2011 3:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Teh Vault Boy

Posted by: Uncarinelf

Posted by: grey101
use the search bar on this topic and just read the posts, i have no feel for retyping a novel

I read the novel... multiple years ago but still. I do not remeber hearing they had equal augmentation. As i stated earlier i thought the augmentation was weaker but able to be used on more people with less risk of CALAMITY.


No. They had the same augmentations, but there was less risk of disability from them due to advances in medical sciences from the S-II program. They had the same training, except there was a definitive emphasis on teamwork. Their equipment was only worse because there were so many S-III's being trained, augmented, and outfitted.


First off the SIIIs got injections and they didn't get the "thyroid treatment" hence them being smaller.


SIIIs were trained for the sole purpose of buying the UNSC time to fight the covenant. Their training was heavily based on teamwork and stealth tactics seeing how they were never to have the numerical advantage.

Being said the SIIs didn't get the education that the SIIs got so they were more war focused and even childish at heart. SIIIs Didn't get any power armor nor did they live to fully hone their skills.

------------------------


The SIIs were Created to stop the civil war that was going on. They had a strict gene pool, College level education, relayed on teamwork and solo independence, Got power armor, and lived for decades.

The Spartan IIs were able to experience the battle and develop their own opinions on it and hone their skills, they were treated with respect unlike the SIIIs


-------------------------------------------


The main factor between the two performance wise is the power armor and skill gap. The perfect example is when kelly fought holly it was balanced until kelly did a solar plexus which sent holly back which wouldn't have happened if she had Mark V.


Then there is the fact of maturity. SIIS were conscripted (save soren) and told they were needed to save their race, they were more disciplined and took the job seriously.


SIIIs joined for revenge against the covenant and were highly un-disciplined,childish, and saw it as a game.


----------------------------------

So everything i said seems to point to the SIIs being better but lets understand something, they both had different goals and they both got them done.

As of now all the SIIs that were "killed" are going to come back thus non died and there where 150 the whole time. [tidbit]


The SIIs were repurposed to fight the covenant thus the ended up with chance on their side and could fight them. Yet despite being create to stop the innies, The spartans have been caught by the innes and implied that even they had trouble with them.


SIIIs on the other hand were created for the sole purpose of buying time which they did. Flaw don't matter as the goal was hours,days,weeks; and the UNSC got that. Now From all that we do know the SIIIs would be far more effective fighting innes while the SIIs would be far more effective fighting covenant, thus they do what they do good enough.

  • 07.25.2011 3:57 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: antonio iz 217

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Spartan II's because Mjolnir was standard issue among them instead of the SPI armour. Also they are larger and stronger, which I suppose is really only a small bonus since it's the difference between being able to crush steel and being able to crush steel harder. But still.


No. In strength they are equal. Same with speed and reflex. They got the same exact augmentations for muscle density and speed amd reflex.


The Spartan II's were generally taller, this gives them a small strength advantage since a larger frame of muscle is, well, going to have more muscle.

  • 07.25.2011 4:04 PM PDT

Watch This.

Spartan 2s.

  • 07.25.2011 4:05 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: IL70
Spartan 2s.


Nice to see people explain their choices.

Personally, I like Spartan III's better (as some of you may know) Mainly because they were not the "genetically perfect" type of soldiers and are still able to do their jobs as well as the Spartan II's (Battle of Onyx, anyone?). They didn't need no fancy MJOLNIR with Energy Shields or any stuff like that, they just needed teamwork :3

  • 07.25.2011 4:08 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

The IIs and IIIs received augmentations in different forms, but they did the same thing to both classes. IIs got surgical procedures, whereas IIIs received drugs.

Now, the difference may come in when you consider the fact that Spartan IIs were picked from a more restricted gene pool. These IIs would be naturally stronger than some IIIs maybe, but that has nothing to do with their augmentations.

  • 07.25.2011 6:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: antonio iz 217
Grey 101 I don't feel like quoting you but spartan 3s can be just as disciplined as 2s. And if they survive long enough they can develop just as much skill as 2s. Also the mutagen thingie makes them harder to kill and for some reason reminds me of wolverine.


you are betting on "if's and but's" as a whole they are not as disciplined like the SIIs are.

And that was given to the last batch of SIIIs not all of them

  • 07.26.2011 10:35 AM PDT

"On the seventh day, god did not rest, but rather he created 64 player multiplayer!"


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: antonio iz 217
Grey 101 I don't feel like quoting you but spartan 3s can be just as disciplined as 2s. And if they survive long enough they can develop just as much skill as 2s. Also the mutagen thingie makes them harder to kill and for some reason reminds me of wolverine.


you are betting on "if's and but's" as a whole they are not as disciplined like the SIIs are.

And that was given to the last batch of SIIIs not all of them


Maybe it's just an age difference thing between the 2s and 3s that effects their maturity and discipline, but Bungie made it obvious to me how undisciplined they are, in Halo: Reach.

Look at Noble Team, the 3's all talk smack to each other, disobey orders, argue strategy, break line of command, disrespect their team mates and others, and generally do things they shouldn't...and out of everyone on the team (besides yourself), who is the least vocal? Who is the least opinionated? Jorge...of course, the only Spartan 2 on the team.

With Spartan 2's, it's nothing but "yes sir, right away sir" getting the job done, doing what's necessary without hesitation or questions. A team of Spartan 3s however, is a team with too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

[Edited on 07.26.2011 11:03 AM PDT]

  • 07.26.2011 11:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Exactly

  • 07.26.2011 11:04 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Spartan II's.

NOT getting into this again though. I'll just say it's favoritism to avoid the 10,000 character long posts.

  • 07.26.2011 11:07 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: privet caboose
Spartan II's.

NOT getting into this again though. I'll just say it's favoritism to avoid the 10,000 character long posts.


you might as well do it because i was forced to. go back to the last thread and just copy and paste

  • 07.26.2011 11:13 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

SPARTAN-II's.

  • 07.26.2011 11:13 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: privet caboose
Spartan II's.

NOT getting into this again though. I'll just say it's favoritism to avoid the 10,000 character long posts.


you might as well do it because i was forced to. go back to the last thread and just copy and paste


I can't remember what threads I posted in, nor do I feel like searching thousands of pages of forums to do it.

Basically:
>Spartan III's are twitchy(As stated by Kurt himself) while the II's are always calm even in the most critical situations
>Spartan II's have an advantage when it comes to muscle mass and strength because of the thyroid implants.
>Spartan II's and III's did NOT receive the same augments. The III's received theirs through chemical drugs, while the II's received theirs surgically.
>The II's were genetically superior to the III's(Most of them anyway, naturally there are exceptions.)
>The II's have more combat experience which gives them another edge.

And countless other minor details I don't feel like typing out.

  • 07.26.2011 11:17 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: privet caboose
>Spartan II's and III's did NOT receive the same augments. The III's received theirs through chemical drugs, while the II's received theirs surgically.

And how does this translate to any measurable difference? Can you explain how one is superior/inferior to the other?

  • 07.26.2011 1:31 PM PDT

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