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  • Subject: The UNSC nor covenant will be in new trilogy
Subject: The UNSC nor covenant will be in new trilogy

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
If this is the best entertainment you can find at about 1 PM on a Monday, you're life must suck.
Right there with you Cobra.

  • 08.08.2011 1:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: grey101
1. which is due to him being related to Ancient humans and the librarian.

Where was this stated?

Posted by: grey101
2.I do have evidence but majority of the people on in this thread went to type in the dates on halopedia or looked it up on the encyclopedia (which i did source). so if you don't feel like looking up the info yourself like i have to do EVERYDAY then to bad but my points still stand.

All you have given is a set of dates from Halo 3 marketing material that do not in any way explicitly state that Chief is still missing.

As for this 2589 date, which you called official, you refuse to give a page reference. However, as you claim that most people have found it then I will make a thread asking this forum that precise question, and we will see if you are talking BS or not, okay?

Posted by: grey101
Again just because you can't find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, you are clearly lacking object permanence.

Look, I ain't going to school you on meta-physics. If you cannot provide proof for a positive claim then you are out.

Posted by: grey101
3.I don't care if i am aggravating you, if you aren't trying hard to find the information then you must not care about it.

Too bad, because the Burden of Proof is on you.

Posted by: grey101
and that source doesn't say anything you posted, and i always have sources. Halo 4 wasn't done becuase bungie didn't want to start something they couldn't finish.

Didn't want to start something that they could not finish.

Didn't want ... something ... they could not finish.

... not finish.

As in the story was incomplete at that time. My point. You missed it completely and fell right into it.

"and i always have sources."

You do not. You cannot even source a bloody date. What a bare faced liar.

Posted by: grey101
4.which is why a good game without the UNSC/Covenant would be good since it would require better story telling. not to mention it would be a leap.

You use so many fallacies it is unbelievable. That part of your sentence "a good game without the UNSC/Covenant" is begging the question, because that is what is being discussed.

Posted by: grey101
A) Meaning that it will be chief focused and how he ties into everything while providing somewhat of a prequel on the forerunners and ancient humans. (comicon and primordium)

Eh heh? And what? You said it had more weight on the story, implying that it should be more relevant to a person. That is essentially your entire argument against the UNSC/Covenant being in the game when your quote mining of Frankie's statements utterly failed. You assert that they are ignorant of the true Halo lore because they do not view this principally over everything else.

Posted by: grey101
B)Which is again re-arranging words and adding your mindset into it. I said normally people with that opinion only know the games and say "if they aren't in game then it isn't halo".

Well what if they do? Are you once again going to come in and dictate what they can and cannot think about something?

Posted by: grey101
7. To understand the lore 100 percent you are going to have to read other material. i didn't "undermined" anything since i wasn't the one that said that statement. wikipedia isn't going to tell you more about fishing than a fisherman.

You said that there will be some things that the player will not understand about the new trilogy, which undermined your claim that the UNSC/Covenant cannot be in the game for those very reasons.

Posted by: Neutrino
Unfortunately though, they will need to understand the previous trilogy in order to understand why the Forerunners and Flood are of any relevance, and why Cortana is acting weird etc. (If she is indeed going through Rampancy, or will they ignore that because "You won't have to understand the last trilogy in order to play this one"?)

Posted by: grey101
Yes you will have to be exposed to other material to fully understand everything that is not new to any game or life in its self. And we knew from IRIS and the terminals that the forerunners we still alive.


Quoted. Don't try to worm your way out of it.

Posted by: grey101
8.I am talking about the war.

Why? That has got nothing to do with anything.

Posted by: grey101
10. um i am sure that was said by frankie or greg at comicon or somewhere else.

I don't believe you because you have no evidence.

My final verdict on you is that you simply don't want the UNSC and Covenant to be in the next trilogy. You posts stink of personal opinion. I'm finished with you now.

  • 08.08.2011 1:54 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Well Neutrino, do you have a real valid argument that gives the UNSC or Covenant a reason to be in the new trilogy? The books are set up to tell their story and the games are about Chief's destiny in fulfilling Mendicant Bias' atonement for his sins.

  • 08.08.2011 2:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Halo does ask that and as you mention later on in your post, we don't know the extent of the continuing story.

And in spite of this they act as if they know for sure that the UNSC/Covenant will not be appearing.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The end result of his destiny is clear, he is to act as Mendicant Bias atonement for the crap he pulled durign the Forerunner-Flood War, ie joining the Flood and fighting against his makers the Forerunners.

3 games of that. How exciting.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The destiny line is from promo material, however the implication Chief has a destiny comes much earlier from Halo 3's terminals. And it's funny you say we have no standards considering you are a relative newbie to this forum and have no seen our past discussions.

First impressions are everything.

  • 08.08.2011 2:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Well Neutrino, do you have a real valid argument that gives the UNSC or Covenant a reason to be in the new trilogy? The books are set up to tell their story and the games are about Chief's destiny in fulfilling Mendicant Bias' atonement for his sins.

Nice try, very nice. But the rejection of a claim does not necessitate that I substitute my own.

  • 08.08.2011 2:05 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Neutrino
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Halo does ask that and as you mention later on in your post, we don't know the extent of the continuing story.

And in spite of this they act as if they know for sure that the UNSC/Covenant will not be appearing.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The end result of his destiny is clear, he is to act as Mendicant Bias atonement for the crap he pulled durign the Forerunner-Flood War, ie joining the Flood and fighting against his makers the Forerunners.

3 games of that. How exciting.


Well, it's obvious the Covenant aren't appearing seeing as there is no Covenant left. The lesser factions, Grunts, Jackals, Hunters, and Drones never cared much for the Great Journey and went their separate ways. The Prophets are a dying race of barely 1000 and the Brutes and Elites are fighting a war where it's implied both are waning on supplies and technology.

As for the UNSC, humanity has been reduced considerably and a lot of our own ships were destroyed.

It would take a big long shot for either the UNSC and the splintered former Covenant factions to magically get new ships and resources and find the planet Chief is heading towards.

[Edited on 08.08.2011 2:09 PM PDT]

  • 08.08.2011 2:09 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Neutrino
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Well Neutrino, do you have a real valid argument that gives the UNSC or Covenant a reason to be in the new trilogy? The books are set up to tell their story and the games are about Chief's destiny in fulfilling Mendicant Bias' atonement for his sins.

Nice try, very nice. But the rejection of a claim does not necessitate that I substitute my own.

In other words, "I can't".

  • 08.08.2011 2:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Neutrino
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Well Neutrino, do you have a real valid argument that gives the UNSC or Covenant a reason to be in the new trilogy? The books are set up to tell their story and the games are about Chief's destiny in fulfilling Mendicant Bias' atonement for his sins.

Nice try, very nice. But the rejection of a claim does not necessitate that I substitute my own.

In other words, "I can't".

Maybe I can or maybe I can't but, for example, if you lost your shoes and someone said that a jelly baby monster stole them you would not be expected to first explain their disappearance before rejecting such a ridiculous proposal so don't act smart.

However:

The lesser factions, Grunts, Jackals, Hunters, and Drones never cared much for the Great Journey and went their separate ways.
I was not under the impression that the Great Journey was their only motivation in life, especially after the Covenant era. It must be wonderful to live a life with no political or economic concerns, no need to expand you territory and acquire new resources or to make alliances in case your race is ever threatened. Look, these are independent civilizations now. They are going to be wanting to do their own things now - malignant or benign, we cannot be sure of.

The Prophets are a dying race of barely 1000
What are they doing though? They are the most knowledgeable about Forerunner technology. Do they harbor resentment, or what? We don't know.

As for the UNSC/Sangheili, I believe I already stated something on page 10:

Or the UNSC and certain Covenant races, most likely the Sangheili for instance, could pool their resources and capabilities in order to recover much faster? The way I see it is that the UNSC is in dire need of short term support, whilst the Sangheili are in need of more long term support. Combining their efforts and giving each other what the other does not have would work. There are ways for things to happen.

Not so much of a long shot with all things considered, and magic is not needed.

[Edited on 08.08.2011 2:44 PM PDT]

  • 08.08.2011 2:43 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

All things considered, I don't expect much of a Elite/Human alliance, especially after hearing some details about Glasslands, apparently an ODST team is sent to steal some Engineers aboard an Elite ship, I believe it's mentioned in a podcast, but we'll see. And even still, them finding the Legendary Planet is some that would seriously seem rather flawed. And even then, Chief is still missing at 2589 according to the Encyclopedia and Frankie said Halo 4 isn't set too long after Halo 3.

  • 08.08.2011 2:52 PM PDT

I am invisible, understand, simply because people refuse to see me.
--Ralph Ellison

Posted by: Neutrino
Or the UNSC and certain Covenant races, most likely the Sangheili for instance, could pool their resources and capabilities in order to recover much faster? The way I see it is that the UNSC is in dire need of short term support, whilst the Sangheili are in need of more long term support. Combining their efforts and giving each other what the other does not have would work. There are ways for things to happen.

Not so much of a long shot with all things considered, and magic is not needed.


That's certainly possible, but I think the point is that something like that is not likely to be explored in the new trilogy.

  • 08.08.2011 3:05 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Just want too inject a few things into this discussion:

The Prophets are capable of rebuilding their society from just 1000 specimens. When they first got the dreadnaught, they numbered a mere 1000 and rebuilt their numbers through careful breeding. They are also quite skilled in this, as they had many rules in place too make sure that they would not suffer from incest.

I also theorized in the Glasslands thread that ONI's reasons for keeping the Elites in trouble is part of a gambit too win their support. I theorized that ONI was attacking the Elites and crippling them in several areas and then blaming the damage on the Brutes. By blaming the damage ONI did on the Brutes, ONI ensured that the Elite's attention was so focused on the Brutes that they could more easily blame future damage on the Brutes. The Elites would then be crippled thanks too the damage the "Brutes" did, so that they would be forced too rely on Humanity for support. This gains Humanity an ally and keeps the Elites focused on the Brutes. Seems like something ONI would do, IMHO.

  • 08.08.2011 3:09 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I don't think ONI would need to do espionage to keep the Elites on the Brutes, The Return makes it clear they want to wipe them out.

  • 08.08.2011 3:13 PM PDT

if Chief is going to be in it, then that means that the UNSC is in it.

  • 08.08.2011 3:18 PM PDT

The cake is a lie!!!
Your Lack of Faith is disturbing commander you WILL join KOTOR

Protect me cone!


Posted by: grey101
Frankie said during E3 (which you would have had to see live to know about) That "no purple" will be in halo 4, frankie then said " you won't need to play the new trilogy to get this one" so let me break that down.


The covenant used purple as a color pattern thus any time we saw purple we thought of the covenant, there are also people (most people) that call any of said raves about of it "covenant" instead of their actual names. Thus by him saying "no covenant" he was saying that has a whole without going off an naming each race that was part of it. And we also know by the end of halo 3 that the covenant is disbanded; so the only meaning frankie could have for that is the single races of such "covenant".

He then said "you won't need to understand the last trilogy to get this one" so even if the "no purple" were to be ignored (like some people are trying to) this line still stands. If any of the covenant races were to show up then that would be confusing for a new player and they wouldn't get how that ties in to the story being told (neither would i). NOw if they were to show up as an easter egg or something that is a ok. But we have clear confirmations that the "current" story will not be carried over.



But i do have a spark for you "covenant" fans. The only races that could be in the trilogy without being a Drag are the lekgolo "hunters" and the engineers, why? The forerunners created the engineers thus it would be fine to see some, The legkolo were also around during the time of the forerunners but they saw them as just worms (which is all they were at that point). That being said those are the two "covenant" races people should be hoping are in.


Now to the UNSC
----


Now Halo 3 ends december 11 2552 in which the covenant is disbanded (point 1) and the chief is floating in space declared MIA.

Now Halo Legends Origins takes place roughly 4 years later nearing cortana's 7th birthday and due to the nature of AIs being deleted around that age because of ramapancy that puts halo 4 roughly 5 years after halo 3.

so lets break this down

January 2553 -chief is still missing (evolutions iqbal's letter)

September 2556- A musical is held for the missing hero chief

sometime after November- Cortana talking in origins happens, they are still missing

2689- This is the year the encylapedia (spelling its early) states the chief is still MIA if the other marketing sources were to be ignored (which they shouldn't due to a monument being built)


2607- a monument to the chief is being built for his service to mankind, he is still MIA (and unless something un-heard of happens cortana is long "dead" by this point").


2610- The monument is completed and chief is still MIA


So all things accounted for chief is still MIA 50 years after the war in which unless cortana is put into a body or forerunner upgraded she will be "dead". the encyclopedia states that he is still MIA atleast until 2689.

Now to stop a cop-out i for see being brought up; Halsey eulogy means nothing despite halopedian saying "they got out". There are several movies and shows in which somebody dead (desparate housewives), nonexistant,etc narrates the story. So until we have confirmation that they got out we know nothing.






The events of Primoodium which tie in with halo 4

Glasslands podcast


Now it is 100 percent clear that the neither the UNSC or Covenant will be in halo 4 if not the entire trilogy.



If you read the novels, AI such as 343 guilty spark and one of Dr. Halsey's AI went into a "Meta state" where they balanced thier vast knowledge processing and knowledge with control so they dont "forget to breath" so to say, this meaning that they can live past 7 years.

  • 08.08.2011 3:58 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

We don't know if 343 Guilty Spark went rampant or not. Being a Forerunner AI, he could last much longer before going rampant.

  • 08.08.2011 4:00 PM PDT

The cake is a lie!!!
Your Lack of Faith is disturbing commander you WILL join KOTOR

Protect me cone!


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
We don't know if 343 Guilty Spark went rampant or not. Being a Forerunner AI, he could last much longer before going rampant.

True, its just theory that 343 might have went rampant, i personnaly believe its a mix of both, he was charged with the upkeep of installation 004 but when it was made apparent the Master chief was goin to destroy it he went rampant in order to follow his directive, but i also believe that there may have been another directive to stop him from harming his creators which he must have disobeyed.

  • 08.08.2011 4:04 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: orcinmansam

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
We don't know if 343 Guilty Spark went rampant or not. Being a Forerunner AI, he could last much longer before going rampant.

True, its just theory that 343 might have went rampant, i personnaly believe its a mix of both, he was charged with the upkeep of installation 004 but when it was made apparent the Master chief was goin to destroy it he went rampant in order to follow his directive, but i also believe that there may have been another directive to stop him from harming his creators which he must have disobeyed.


In Cryptum, ANY threat to the ring makes the Monitor view the meddler, no matter what it is be it human, Forerunner, what have you, as a threat to be destroyed.

  • 08.08.2011 4:06 PM PDT

The cake is a lie!!!
Your Lack of Faith is disturbing commander you WILL join KOTOR

Protect me cone!


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: orcinmansam

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
We don't know if 343 Guilty Spark went rampant or not. Being a Forerunner AI, he could last much longer before going rampant.

True, its just theory that 343 might have went rampant, i personnaly believe its a mix of both, he was charged with the upkeep of installation 004 but when it was made apparent the Master chief was goin to destroy it he went rampant in order to follow his directive, but i also believe that there may have been another directive to stop him from harming his creators which he must have disobeyed.


In Cryptum, ANY threat to the ring makes the Monitor view the meddler, no matter what it is be it human, Forerunner, what have you, as a threat to be destroyed.


Really? srry have yet to read Cryptum. (Its in my top 3 in my TO DO list)

  • 08.08.2011 4:08 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: orcinmansam

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: orcinmansam

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
We don't know if 343 Guilty Spark went rampant or not. Being a Forerunner AI, he could last much longer before going rampant.

True, its just theory that 343 might have went rampant, i personnaly believe its a mix of both, he was charged with the upkeep of installation 004 but when it was made apparent the Master chief was goin to destroy it he went rampant in order to follow his directive, but i also believe that there may have been another directive to stop him from harming his creators which he must have disobeyed.


In Cryptum, ANY threat to the ring makes the Monitor view the meddler, no matter what it is be it human, Forerunner, what have you, as a threat to be destroyed.


Really? srry have yet to read Cryptum. (Its in my top 3 in my TO DO list)


Sorry for that little spoiler then.

  • 08.08.2011 4:09 PM PDT

The cake is a lie!!!
Your Lack of Faith is disturbing commander you WILL join KOTOR

Protect me cone!

No prob, i dont care if people spoil things for me, its not about the suprise, its about the info to me

  • 08.08.2011 4:10 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I don't think ONI would need to do espionage to keep the Elites on the Brutes, The Return makes it clear they want to wipe them out.

I know. The point is that the Elites were crippled by "Brute" attacks and are forced too rely on Humanity. ONI keeps up the attacks too force the Elites too rely more and more on us. Because of the, now heavy, reliance on us, the Elites can't betray us and except too survive long.

  • 08.08.2011 4:48 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

All right, folks.

Do I have to explain that It wouldn't make sense for "Covenant" and UNSC being appearing at Halo 4? I can start with explaining several reasons if you want to.

-Covenant is completely destroyed. DESTROYED. (Kids, let me google for you so you can understand what "destroyed" means. After the schism occurred in sometime after Halo 2 to 3, Covenant was already gone. Also, Elites and Brutes are busy with their own mini wars, also ONI are keeping Elites disorganized or weakened by encouraging them to fight more against brutes.(Halo: Glasslands, podcast information) Also The Return in Halo: Evolutions confirmed it.

And, UNSC is unlikely to be there because after the war, they suffered enormous navy losses, military forces losses and civilian losses. It'll take while for them to recover. Also whoever brought up that all of human colonies are destroyed is obvious idiot. There is about half of dozen or more colonies left after the war...

Also, let me add something from Encyclopedia stating that MC is still missing even after 2610s. Grey is correct on this although, it's not hard to find the pages. But, as seeing that you guys (Neutrino and other guys) are lazy, so I'll provide a damn page number.

Halo: Encyclopedia, page number: 106 as Lt. Shah said that no knows if there is Master Chief's grave, it implies that nobody knew where MC is even in 2573. I'll leave to others to find other new pages number. (NOTE: I use second edition).


Grey, never mind Neutrino. He's new lad to the Halo universe. Look at his profile, he made his account here in four months ago...

I don't think he even have played Halo games so far.

[Edited on 08.09.2011 2:45 AM PDT]

  • 08.09.2011 2:41 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Do not panic, or you will fail.

I have a statement that I would like to make to the people who support the argument presented in the OP.

You seem to be too trusting of material (the Encyclopedia) that many people have slammed for its inaccuracies and stands to be overridden by whatever 343i wants to write.

People need to stop acting as if this is a surefire thing that neither the Covenant remnants nor the UNSC will appear in the game. Just from a story telling standpoint, it wouldn't make sense for two of the main forces from the prior five Halo games to have absolutely no influence in the next installment.

Acting as if you are the omnipotent force inside the Halo universe is not helping the argument in here. If you want to make a logical argument based on an unknown, you leave room for possible errors and refrain from belittling those who disagree. Could they both be excluded from the next game? Yes, it's a possibility that I don't think would make sense from a story-telling perspective. However, it could happen. But it could not.

  • 08.09.2011 6:41 AM PDT

Rain, and Jazz.
Halo: Tactical

I'm either a fool or an inteligent man, depending on how sleepy or angry I am.

I originaly made an account on 07.27.2007 but I wanted to link my GT and made this account. Don't forget your passwords!

Tecnicaly, because the Covinant was made up of multiple species we could "stumble upon" a "Covinant" race that is not a member of the Covinant. The legeko/Engineer seems plausible, although I hope we will see some Elites.

EDIT: Humans = Forruners, to some extent.

[Edited on 08.09.2011 6:53 AM PDT]

  • 08.09.2011 6:49 AM PDT


Posted by: gtfan92
I have a statement that I would like to make to the people who support the argument presented in the OP.

You seem to be too trusting of material (the Encyclopedia) that many people have slammed for its inaccuracies and stands to be overridden by whatever 343i wants to write.

People need to stop acting as if this is a surefire thing that neither the Covenant remnants nor the UNSC will appear in the game. Just from a story telling standpoint, it wouldn't make sense for two of the main forces from the prior five Halo games to have absolutely no influence in the next installment.

Acting as if you are the omnipotent force inside the Halo universe is not helping the argument in here. If you want to make a logical argument based on an unknown, you leave room for possible errors and refrain from belittling those who disagree. Could they both be excluded from the next game? Yes, it's a possibility that I don't think would make sense from a story-telling perspective. However, it could happen. But it could not.
I agree.

  • 08.09.2011 7:42 AM PDT