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Subject: Why Halo 3 and ODST are better then Reach.

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

I can't take the Reach's idiocy, anymore, so I'm posting it here where people can actually reply with a formidable response. If you're in need of some lulz go look at the same thread I posted in the Reach forum. Their replies really shows how stupid they are.

I believe all of the Halo games (Halo: CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, ODST, Halo Wars) are all better then Reach. However, I'm going to focus on Halo 3 and ODST.

The Campaign: ODST had the best campaign out of all the Halo games with Halo 3 as a close second. "But, it was so short!" Quality over quantity. When I look at a poll on the ODST forums that asks which character is my favorite, I have to think. This is good. All of the characters are likable. When I see a poll asking which of Noble Team is your favorite I can easily say, 'none.' Or maybe Jorge, but they killed him off so fast you didn't really get to know him as well as you should have. All of the characters in Reach were honestly not likable at all. Aside from the characters, Reach takes canon by the throat, slaps it around, throws it on the ground, and takes a dump on it.

I honestly don't think I have to go into detail with the canon breaks. Anyway, instead of taking an already great story The Fall of Reach they replace it with this new story. A story, that feels like a crappy side-story, at best. Where was the Global Battle? Everything was small scale. "What about Long Night of Solace?!" That wasn't much of a step up. It's overrated and the Sabre...is it just me or is it exactly like the Banshee, but Human? It had the same controls and everything. All they did was take Banshee mechanics, slap it on a space ship (That was a little kid's ride. We should've piloted a Longsword, at least.) and put the setting in space. Lazy, much?

Bungie boasted how they could now do 40AI, twice as much in Halo 3! Well, you sure did use the 40AI well, Bungie. /sarcasm. In Halo 3 - The Ark mission - You roll in their with your tank and you have to fight off Ghosts, Wraiths, Choppers, Infantry...then BAM, a Scarab comes out of nowhere and you have to take that down too. They did all that with 20AI, could you imagine double that?! It would've been amazing. Also - The Covenant mission - you hop in the Hornet and there's a bunch of Banshees and Dropships you have to fight off while there are anti-air Wraiths shooting at you and infantry on the ground with Shade turrets. After all that, later in the mission, you have to take on two Scarabs while there are Banshees and Ghosts and whatnot fighting all around. The Falcon mission in Reach doesn't even compare to that. All done with 20AI. In Reach, nothing even compares to the epic battles that were so well done in Halo 3 and they had twice the AI.

Going off what I said about global battle, where was the sense of invasion? The largest Covenant fleet had come to invade Reach and glass it, yet...I felt no sense of invasion, at all. I felt more invaded during the highway mission in ODST. When you're driving your Warthog and there were Covenant ships in low orbit glassing. Then, out of nowhere, a Scarab comes walking through. The only time they did an okay job with the invasion bit was in New Alexandria and that still wasn't even close to enough of what we should've felt.

Now, in ODST the story was simply great. They had Sadie's Story as a side option, as well, which enhanced the story even more. The whole relationship between Buck and Dare was very well done. It first started off a bit rough then smoothed itself out by the end of the game. The relationship between the ODST's themselves was, again, well done. They were friends who had to have each others back in time of such peril. Like any friends they got a little pissed off at each other. For example Dutch, "Show some respect Romeo!" ... "I'm just sayin', Dutch." You can feel the tension, but they always get past their differences because that's what friends do. The character development in ODST was overall fantastic. Even in Halo 3, the relationship between Cortana and Chief. In Reach, it was terrible. It didn't capture anything like ODST did. Kat and Carter a tiny, tiny bit, but that's about it.

The Multiplayer - Halo 3, competitive. Halo: Reach, casual. Armor Abilities. One of the worst things to come of Halo. Sprint and Evade are the only ones that are okay. Even then the whole Sprint+Sword(Or melee) combo gets a little old. Don't even get me started on Armor Lock. All these things give the player a crutch right from the start. Where as, in Halo 3, you had to fight for the "power weapons" and Camo/Overshield. Arena is a joke. The highest skill in Halo 3 was so much better. You want to see real competition? Watch 50's go against each other in Halo 3. The credit system is terrible. I cap all five flags, against two Forerunners I may add, to win the game and all I got is a mere 100-200 credits for my performance? The EXP in Halo 3, although frustrating when you lose 50-49, worked well. If your team won, you got the EXP. This is where teamwork comes into play. Your team had to win in order for you to get the EXP. In Reach, you are trying to get credits for yourself.

Multiplayer Maps: Similar to characters, when I look at a Halo 3 poll/thread asking what your favorite multiplayer map is I really have to think because many come to mind. For Reach, I can easily say none. They did the lazy, Call of Duty copy-and-paste-from-campaign maps for Reach. While in Halo 3 they made amazing maps. The Pit, Guardian, Sandtrap, Vahalla, Avalanche, Cold Storage, etc, etc, etc. Plus, Halo 3's maps are great to Forge on. In Reach, I do not see any of them working well with Forge. The only thing you got is Forge World. Also, I might as well tag this on here too...ODST's Firefight maps > Reach's Firefight maps. Lost Platoon, anybody? I love ODST's Firefight maps. Reach's FF maps were just more copy-and-paste-from-campaign.

Firefight - ODST > Reach. Simple. In Reach it's all about the individual. You don't have to work as a team. In ODST, your more vulnerable. The waves get progressively harder and teamwork is highly emphasized. In Reach, you hardly have to take a survival into account. Try to get the achievement Endure. Case and point.

inbefore - tl;dr
inbefore - OP can't inbefore
inbefore - adapt

[Edited on 07.30.2011 7:33 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 11:42 AM PDT

I totally agree. MAN, I should have gotten ODST.

  • 07.30.2011 11:47 AM PDT
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to the death to say it!"

"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
-Onyx81

I would like to point out that Bungie designed the multiplayer maps from Reach first and then said, lets put these into campaign.

It's why the sequences in campaign with the multiplayer maps are awkward.

  • 07.30.2011 11:48 AM PDT
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to the death to say it!"

"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
-Onyx81


Posted by: katamariguy
I totally agree. MAN, I should have gotten ODST.
You still can. For a cheap price too.

  • 07.30.2011 11:49 AM PDT

The vendors around here don't care how old a game is.

  • 07.30.2011 11:49 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to the death to say it!"

"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
-Onyx81


Posted by: katamariguy
The vendors around here don't care how old a game is.
Really? Try Amazon.com. Sure it'll take a week, but its better to get it at a cheap price.

  • 07.30.2011 11:55 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: katamariguy
The vendors around here don't care how old a game is.
Really? Try Amazon.com. Sure it'll take a week, but its better to get it at a cheap price.

Yeah, try getting it online.^

As for the multiplayer maps...that's even worse, imo. It just backs up the fact that they did a lazy job with the campaign and that it clearly wasn't their first priority.

  • 07.30.2011 11:58 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to the death to say it!"

"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
-Onyx81


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9

Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: katamariguy
The vendors around here don't care how old a game is.
Really? Try Amazon.com. Sure it'll take a week, but its better to get it at a cheap price.

Yeah, try getting it online.^

As for the multiplayer maps...that's even worse, imo. It just backs up the fact that they did a lazy job with the campaign and that it clearly wasn't their first priority.
Yeah. I sort of knew the campaign wasn't their first priority when I watched the ViDoc Carnage Carnival. They said something along the lines of, "Reach's campaign sets an amazing table, but its Multiplayer is the food, and I could eat it every god damn day."

  • 07.30.2011 12:07 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9

Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: katamariguy
The vendors around here don't care how old a game is.
Really? Try Amazon.com. Sure it'll take a week, but its better to get it at a cheap price.

Yeah, try getting it online.^

As for the multiplayer maps...that's even worse, imo. It just backs up the fact that they did a lazy job with the campaign and that it clearly wasn't their first priority.
Yeah. I sort of knew the campaign wasn't their first priority when I watched the ViDoc Carnage Carnival. They said something along the lines of, "Reach's campaign sets an amazing table, but its Multiplayer is the food, and I could eat it every god damn day."

Yeah, I don't wanna be a hater, but I just don't see Bungie as the same developer anymore. They seem to of fallen in that "multiplayer beats all" kind of mentality where the campaign can be mediocre, but the multiplayer has to be good. Which is why I don't like Bungie anymore and am glad 343 had taken the reigns for the Halo franchise. Hopefully they'll do a better job.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 12:11 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 12:10 PM PDT


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9

Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9

Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: katamariguy
The vendors around here don't care how old a game is.
Really? Try Amazon.com. Sure it'll take a week, but its better to get it at a cheap price.

Yeah, try getting it online.^

As for the multiplayer maps...that's even worse, imo. It just backs up the fact that they did a lazy job with the campaign and that it clearly wasn't their first priority.
Yeah. I sort of knew the campaign wasn't their first priority when I watched the ViDoc Carnage Carnival. They said something along the lines of, "Reach's campaign sets an amazing table, but its Multiplayer is the food, and I could eat it every god damn day."

Yeah, I don't wanna be a hater, but I just don't see Bungie as the same developer anymore. They seem to of fallen in that "multiplayer beats all" kind of mentality where the campaign can be mediocre, but the multiplayer has to be good. Which is why I don't like Bungie anymore and am glad 343 had taken the reigns for the Halo franchise. Hopefully they'll do a better job.


I'm hoping for a good story myself but you know what it'll be like. People will hate on the smallest things and start hating on 343 because of stupid little things in Halo 4.

And it'll be the majority who enjoyed multiplayer in Halo none the less. And will -blam!- at 343 until they change it in halo 5 making halo 5 utter -blam!-.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 12:14 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 12:13 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: Devils Preists
I'm hoping for a good story myself but you know what it'll be like. People will hate on the smallest things and start hating on 343 because of stupid little things in Halo 4.

And it'll be the majority who enjoyed multiplayer in Halo none the less. And will -blam!- at 343 until they change it in halo 5 making halo 5 utter -blam!-.

Yeah, tell me about it. But, nonetheless, if they keep having a great story...then I don't think the crappy multiplayer will bother me too much. I'll just make Halo one of those games that I only play for the campaign if the unfortunate happens and 343i starts listening to the people in the Reach forum.

  • 07.30.2011 12:25 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum. I can't take the Reach's idiocy, anymore
Just because you don't like the responses you get in a certain forum doesn't mean you can knowingly post in the wrong forum.

  • 07.30.2011 12:32 PM PDT

Well you have to give Bungie credit, they didn't try to focus on Character development and focused on the Vista's and story to go along with it, They did have minor character development with Jorge and Emile's tension, obviously you didn't pay attention to the cutscene.

But I have to be honest with you OP, did you honestly want to hear of their past during an invasion? "Oh Reach is being attacked, let's talk about Thom" No, you would talk about your plan for the next attack. I'm fine with how Reach turned out.

Although I did wish they could have done more on the Character development as well, at least go into Kat and Carters old relationship or bring a memory of Thom OR AT LEAST at the beginning where Carter states the Team didn't even want Noble 6 to have gone into that, after the first mission, they respected him, no tension AT ALL.

Bungie just got lazy, but the maps...They came BEFORE the campaign my friend.

  • 07.30.2011 12:33 PM PDT


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9

Posted by: Devils Preists
I'm hoping for a good story myself but you know what it'll be like. People will hate on the smallest things and start hating on 343 because of stupid little things in Halo 4.

And it'll be the majority who enjoyed multiplayer in Halo none the less. And will -blam!- at 343 until they change it in halo 5 making halo 5 utter -blam!-.

Yeah, tell me about it. But, nonetheless, if they keep having a great story...then I don't think the crappy multiplayer will bother me too much. I'll just make Halo one of those games that I only play for the campaign if the unfortunate happens and 343i starts listening to the people in the Reach forum.


Same, I don't see anything wrong with Reach's multiplayer outside of the DMR bloom effect. Now that has robbed me of more kills then I bother to count (past 56, which I did count up to until I got tired of it and tried to only play AR games).

But they did say they're bring H4 truly back to the roots, so we'll see.

  • 07.30.2011 12:33 PM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

Am I the only person on Bungie.net that likes Halo Reach?
And Reach was 1000 times better than ODST imo.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 1:01 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 12:54 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: lord of dahorde
Am I the only person on Bungie.net that likes Halo Reach.
And Reach was 1000 times better than ODST imo.

I like Reach too. And I don't get people who run around screaming "CANNON BREECH!!11!". From what I've seen, Reach fits in just fine. And people who complain about "The lack of invasion" have to remember that one soldier on the field rarely sees the big picture.

  • 07.30.2011 12:59 PM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*


Posted by: Gamer Whale

Posted by: lord of dahorde
Am I the only person on Bungie.net that likes Halo Reach.
And Reach was 1000 times better than ODST imo.

I like Reach too. And I don't get people who run around screaming "CANNON BREECH!!11!". From what I've seen, Reach fits in just fine. And people who complain about "The lack of invasion" have to remember that one soldier on the field rarely sees the big picture.

True. And they believe the biggest cannon breach is the Pillar Of Autumn on the surface of Reach.

  • 07.30.2011 1:03 PM PDT

lulz

Half.com has ODST for like $6 you can't beat that...

  • 07.30.2011 1:06 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: lord of dahorde

Posted by: Gamer Whale

Posted by: lord of dahorde
Am I the only person on Bungie.net that likes Halo Reach.
And Reach was 1000 times better than ODST imo.

I like Reach too. And I don't get people who run around screaming "CANNON BREECH!!11!". From what I've seen, Reach fits in just fine. And people who complain about "The lack of invasion" have to remember that one soldier on the field rarely sees the big picture.

True. And they believe the biggest cannon breach is the Pillar Of Autumn on the surface of Reach.
From what I've seen, PoA has time to do stuff in space, land and leave. And it can land on planets. And leave with help. (those thrusters)

  • 07.30.2011 1:07 PM PDT


Posted by: Gamer Whale

Posted by: lord of dahorde
Am I the only person on Bungie.net that likes Halo Reach.
And Reach was 1000 times better than ODST imo.

I like Reach too. And I don't get people who run around screaming "CANNON BREECH!!11!". From what I've seen, Reach fits in just fine. And people who complain about "The lack of invasion" have to remember that one soldier on the field rarely sees the big picture.


Indeed. One person's viewpoint can be drastically different from anothers.

  • 07.30.2011 1:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag: bac06
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You don't need to point the fact that the previous titles are better, cause we already know that.

  • 07.30.2011 1:46 PM PDT


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
So right bro. I want epicer games nao. But i dun like either the 1-50 system or reach's system. Isn't hologram an ok armor ability? It's weak as -blam!- and only ch1f would fall for it.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 1:59 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 1:57 PM PDT

I agree with alot of the things OP said, that being said, I still think Reach is a great game. It seems like you left out alot of the positive things Reach brought. Better graphics, improved textures and environments, first campaign with Spartans, new weapons and vehicles, firefight, much more armor permutations, a challenging campaign.

Armor abilities are kind of bittersweet for me, I think it's cool how everyone can choose to do their own unique thing, and some are cool, but they do seem like too much of a crutch in a tight situation, especially armor lock, and are cheap. And I miss powerups alot, especially the old camo and overshield, the square and the pyramid from Halo CE (oh I loved those!), then they made it into these blue and red balls, then they take it away, basically.

  • 07.30.2011 2:00 PM PDT
  • gamertag: kkrotz
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Only problem with Reach is it caters a bit too much towards the casual audience.

  • 07.30.2011 2:02 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum. I can't take the Reach's idiocy, anymore
Just because you don't like the responses you get in a certain forum doesn't mean you can knowingly post in the wrong forum.

Oops, sorry Forum Police.

  • 07.30.2011 2:09 PM PDT

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