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Subject: M1A Abrams vs...
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Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: raganok99
What? Wasn't it was over that Abrams beats Scorpions easily? Oh come on, several guys already explained that! read their posts again! And I have no choice but bring my post up again.


Scorpion is useless against Wraith anyway. their Titanium-A armor is useless against plasma. It has been proven countlessly that titanium-A aren't designed to withstand 5,000c direct plasma hit! And plasma mortar obliterating in 20 meters, Look this word of obliterating. It means destroying EVERYTHING in 20 meters. And, 90 mm high velocity is useless against wraith as well, it takes two to three shots to take it down.


So you reason, because the Scorpion cannot kill a wraith with 1 shot or survive a " 5,000c direct plasma hit" "obliterating in 20 meters" It is worse than an Abrams.

I am sorry but Abrams wins on this. Because 90mm high velocity is useless to Abrams because Abram's armor is made of depleted uranium, Rh armor and Chobham armor, which it is designed to stop any kinetic energy penetration warhead, HEAT rounds, RPGS and high heat warhead as well. I would suggest you to research about Abrams and Scorpions before you post.

Because the Abrams has X armor the Scorpion is worse.

Also, there is massive flaws in design of Scorpions, I'm afraid. Their large profile makes this Scorpions a big target and easy to hit. Also, they have vulnerable cockpit and exposed turret.

Turret design is made for shooting over or around things, but yes, it's profile is bigger. The cockipit varies from model to model, take a look at the variant from Halo 1.

Also Abrams does have 120mm high velocity smooth-bore cannon, with rounds of kinetic penetration warhead with depleted uranium dipped in arrow shaped that can penetrate armor like tungsten.

The gun on the Abrams can penetrate an undisclosed thickness of a metal not used in the armor of the Scorpion, therefore it is superior.

Therefore, Abrams wins.

Halo Nation is not acceptable source because it is full of errors, no canon sources to back it up and grammar errors is there too. So it discredits the site greatly. In future, please do not use that site ever again. This time, go look for hard source (novels and encyclopedia) that states that scorpion using that round.

You do realize that a lack of information about the Scorpion does not make it inferior?




You have made one valid point. "The Scorpion has a big profile."


I'm not super pro scorpion or any thing, I just can't help but notice these arguments hold no water what so ever. Do to Bungie not knowing much about warfare, I could see the Scorpion being dismally inferior, but as of yet no one has prove this with valid arguments and facts.


like what? You provided a non-creditable site A.K.A Halo nation. It makes your argument void too.

And, I'm pretty sure that Abrams have better armor and better firepower than scorpion... Please, research it before you make claims, okay? Research is extremely essential to making your arguments to stand in this thread. I know what I am talking about because of my family member is in military and I learned lot about our military.

Also, I'm pretty SURE that Abram's 120mm cannon with kinetic penerator warhead with depleted uranium casing is much better than 90mm HE shells. Also, Abrams can avoid plasma mortars by fighting in extreme long ranges like five miles or more.

For citing sources, I would suggest you to go this thread: Don't use wikia, etc


[Edited on 08.01.2011 7:06 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2011 6:58 PM PDT

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Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: raganok99
What? Wasn't it was over that Abrams beats Scorpions easily? Oh come on, several guys already explained that! read their posts again! And I have no choice but bring my post up again.


Scorpion is useless against Wraith anyway. their Titanium-A armor is useless against plasma. It has been proven countlessly that titanium-A aren't designed to withstand 5,000c direct plasma hit! And plasma mortar obliterating in 20 meters, Look this word of obliterating. It means destroying EVERYTHING in 20 meters. And, 90 mm high velocity is useless against wraith as well, it takes two to three shots to take it down.


So you reason, because the Scorpion cannot kill a wraith with 1 shot or survive a " 5,000c direct plasma hit" "obliterating in 20 meters" It is worse than an Abrams.

I am sorry but Abrams wins on this. Because 90mm high velocity is useless to Abrams because Abram's armor is made of depleted uranium, Rh armor and Chobham armor, which it is designed to stop any kinetic energy penetration warhead, HEAT rounds, RPGS and high heat warhead as well. I would suggest you to research about Abrams and Scorpions before you post.

Because the Abrams has X armor the Scorpion is worse.

Also, there is massive flaws in design of Scorpions, I'm afraid. Their large profile makes this Scorpions a big target and easy to hit. Also, they have vulnerable cockpit and exposed turret.

Turret design is made for shooting over or around things, but yes, it's profile is bigger. The cockipit varies from model to model, take a look at the variant from Halo 1.

Also Abrams does have 120mm high velocity smooth-bore cannon, with rounds of kinetic penetration warhead with depleted uranium dipped in arrow shaped that can penetrate armor like tungsten.

The gun on the Abrams can penetrate an undisclosed thickness of a metal not used in the armor of the Scorpion, therefore it is superior.

Therefore, Abrams wins.

Halo Nation is not acceptable source because it is full of errors, no canon sources to back it up and grammar errors is there too. So it discredits the site greatly. In future, please do not use that site ever again. This time, go look for hard source (novels and encyclopedia) that states that scorpion using that round.

You do realize that a lack of information about the Scorpion does not make it inferior?




You have made one valid point. "The Scorpion has a big profile."


I'm not super pro scorpion or any thing, I just can't help but notice these arguments hold no water what so ever. Do to Bungie not knowing much about warfare, I could see the Scorpion being dismally inferior, but as of yet no one has prove this with valid arguments and facts.


like what? You provided a non-creditable site A.K.A Halo nation. It makes your argument void too.

And, I'm pretty sure that Abrams have better armor and better firepower than scorpion... Please, research it before you make claims, okay? Research is extremely essential to making your arguments to stand in this thread. I know what I am talking about because of my family member is in military and I learned lot about our military.

Also, I'm pretty SURE that Abram's 120mm cannon with kinetic penerator warhead with depleted uranium casing is much better than 90mm HE shells. Also, Abrams can avoid plasma mortars by fighting in extreme long ranges like five miles or more.

For citing sources, I would suggest you to go this thread: Don't use wikia, etc


Honestly I don't think there is enough info on the Scorpion to really say one way or another, but what in my pointing out that your arguments were completely invalid used wiki information?

[Edited on 08.01.2011 7:16 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2011 7:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: raganok99
What? Wasn't it was over that Abrams beats Scorpions easily? Oh come on, several guys already explained that! read their posts again! And I have no choice but bring my post up again.


Scorpion is useless against Wraith anyway. their Titanium-A armor is useless against plasma. It has been proven countlessly that titanium-A aren't designed to withstand 5,000c direct plasma hit! And plasma mortar obliterating in 20 meters, Look this word of obliterating. It means destroying EVERYTHING in 20 meters. And, 90 mm high velocity is useless against wraith as well, it takes two to three shots to take it down.


So you reason, because the Scorpion cannot kill a wraith with 1 shot or survive a " 5,000c direct plasma hit" "obliterating in 20 meters" It is worse than an Abrams.

I am sorry but Abrams wins on this. Because 90mm high velocity is useless to Abrams because Abram's armor is made of depleted uranium, Rh armor and Chobham armor, which it is designed to stop any kinetic energy penetration warhead, HEAT rounds, RPGS and high heat warhead as well. I would suggest you to research about Abrams and Scorpions before you post.

Because the Abrams has X armor the Scorpion is worse.

Also, there is massive flaws in design of Scorpions, I'm afraid. Their large profile makes this Scorpions a big target and easy to hit. Also, they have vulnerable cockpit and exposed turret.

Turret design is made for shooting over or around things, but yes, it's profile is bigger. The cockipit varies from model to model, take a look at the variant from Halo 1.

Also Abrams does have 120mm high velocity smooth-bore cannon, with rounds of kinetic penetration warhead with depleted uranium dipped in arrow shaped that can penetrate armor like tungsten.

The gun on the Abrams can penetrate an undisclosed thickness of a metal not used in the armor of the Scorpion, therefore it is superior.

Therefore, Abrams wins.

Halo Nation is not acceptable source because it is full of errors, no canon sources to back it up and grammar errors is there too. So it discredits the site greatly. In future, please do not use that site ever again. This time, go look for hard source (novels and encyclopedia) that states that scorpion using that round.

You do realize that a lack of information about the Scorpion does not make it inferior?




You have made one valid point. "The Scorpion has a big profile."


I'm not super pro scorpion or any thing, I just can't help but notice these arguments hold no water what so ever. Do to Bungie not knowing much about warfare, I could see the Scorpion being dismally inferior, but as of yet no one has prove this with valid arguments and facts.


like what? You provided a non-creditable site A.K.A Halo nation. It makes your argument void too.

And, I'm pretty sure that Abrams have better armor and better firepower than scorpion... Please, research it before you make claims, okay? Research is extremely essential to making your arguments to stand in this thread. I know what I am talking about because of my family member is in military and I learned lot about our military.

Also, I'm pretty SURE that Abram's 120mm cannon with kinetic penerator warhead with depleted uranium casing is much better than 90mm HE shells. Also, Abrams can avoid plasma mortars by fighting in extreme long ranges like five miles or more.

For citing sources, I would suggest you to go this thread: Don't use wikia, etc


Honestly I don't think there is enough info on the Scorpion to really say one way or another, but what in my pointing out that your arguments were completely invalid used wiki information?


Because Wikipedia information aren't fully credible because of "summary" information there, not full detailed like books or articles or whatever. Only info missing about Scorpion is that range of 90mm cannon, muzzle velocity, speed, thickness of armor, that's all. Not much info are missing, actually.

And let you know, I don't use Wikipedia at all. If you're in college, you should know that most of professors don't accept the Wikipedia as source. Same thing with halo universe discussions on debates/theories, must provide hard source instead of Wikipedia.

  • 08.01.2011 7:21 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression


Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: ExcellentSix
Besides, even if the turret of the m1 is shot at, it's not like the ammunition is stored there, as you said.
But the scorpions crew doesn't know where the ammunition is stored.


I said body. Also your logic is "The Abrams has armor"

What I said was that the Scorpion has more room for it's lighter armor because the gun is mounted away from the body and it has a crew of one or two people depending on variant.

You have done nothing to dissprove what I said, even if ammo was stored in the main body of a Scorpion the smaller rounds and two less crew would still mean plenty of room for it's lighter armor.


Desite having room for more armor, what use is it if the enemy will aim for that over exposed turret instead of the main body ?
The main body of the scorpion tank can be super dense, what would it matter if your main gun becomes detached and inoperable due it's falty stature on the tank ?
A shot or two from a kinetic energy penetrator to the tall turret will render it useless, even if the two man crew do survive that, what will they do after they find out they're defensless ?

It maybe titanium ceramic, but that isn't a super alloy or anything, great at dispersing heat, but not extremely efficient when it comes to ballistic
projectiles.

  • 08.01.2011 7:46 PM PDT

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Posted by: ExcellentSix

Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: ExcellentSix
Besides, even if the turret of the m1 is shot at, it's not like the ammunition is stored there, as you said.
But the scorpions crew doesn't know where the ammunition is stored.


I said body. Also your logic is "The Abrams has armor"

What I said was that the Scorpion has more room for it's lighter armor because the gun is mounted away from the body and it has a crew of one or two people depending on variant.

You have done nothing to dissprove what I said, even if ammo was stored in the main body of a Scorpion the smaller rounds and two less crew would still mean plenty of room for it's lighter armor.


Desite having room for more armor, what use is it if the enemy will aim for that over exposed turret instead of the main body ?
The main body of the scorpion tank can be super dense, what would it matter if your main gun becomes detached and inoperable due it's falty stature on the tank ?
A shot or two from a kinetic energy penetrator to the tall turret will render it useless, even if the two man crew do survive that, what will they do after they find out they're defensless ?

It maybe titanium ceramic, but that isn't a super alloy or anything, great at dispersing heat, but not extremely efficient when it comes to ballistic
projectiles.



Look, it was designed to counter human threats, ie the rebel forces using firearms and missles.

Not saying it's Abrams proof, but It was intended to defeat similar weaponry.

[Edited on 08.01.2011 8:03 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2011 8:02 PM PDT

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Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Makko Mace


Honestly I don't think there is enough info on the Scorpion to really say one way or another, but what in my pointing out that your arguments were completely invalid used wiki information?


Because Wikipedia information aren't fully credible because of "summary" information there, not full detailed like books or articles or whatever. Only info missing about Scorpion is that range of 90mm cannon, muzzle velocity, speed, thickness of armor, that's all. Not much info are missing, actually.

And let you know, I don't use Wikipedia at all. If you're in college, you should know that most of professors don't accept the Wikipedia as source. Same thing with halo universe discussions on debates/theories, must provide hard source instead of Wikipedia.


I did not say you weren't correct about it, only that when I pointed out your arguments invalidity I never used the wikia.

The only time I used it this thread was when someone asked where someone else got certain information, and I linked the wikia, which they had used.

  • 08.01.2011 8:05 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression


Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: ExcellentSix

Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: ExcellentSix
Besides, even if the turret of the m1 is shot at, it's not like the ammunition is stored there, as you said.
But the scorpions crew doesn't know where the ammunition is stored.


I said body. Also your logic is "The Abrams has armor"

What I said was that the Scorpion has more room for it's lighter armor because the gun is mounted away from the body and it has a crew of one or two people depending on variant.

You have done nothing to dissprove what I said, even if ammo was stored in the main body of a Scorpion the smaller rounds and two less crew would still mean plenty of room for it's lighter armor.


Desite having room for more armor, what use is it if the enemy will aim for that over exposed turret instead of the main body ?
The main body of the scorpion tank can be super dense, what would it matter if your main gun becomes detached and inoperable due it's falty stature on the tank ?
A shot or two from a kinetic energy penetrator to the tall turret will render it useless, even if the two man crew do survive that, what will they do after they find out they're defensless ?

It maybe titanium ceramic, but that isn't a super alloy or anything, great at dispersing heat, but not extremely efficient when it comes to ballistic
projectiles.



Look, it was designed to counter human threats, ie the rebel forces using firearms and missles.

Not saying it's Abrams proof, but It was intended to defeat similar weaponry.


Lol wut ?
I don't know how to counter this.
Doesn't really help much though.

  • 08.01.2011 8:14 PM PDT

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I don't think this is an argument any of us could win, there's just too many unknowns.

We have no idea about the effect the weapons of both tanks would have on each other or even how tough the armor of either really is, the Abrams armor is classified and an RPG isn't the same thing as a full on cannon.

[Edited on 08.01.2011 8:25 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2011 8:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Makko Mace
I don't think this is an argument any of us could win, there's just too many unknowns.


I am not even in this petty debate and it was clear that abrams won.

  • 08.01.2011 8:24 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Makko Mace
I don't think this is an argument any of us could win, there's just too many unknowns.


I am not even in this petty debate and it was clear that abrams won.



Why?

  • 08.01.2011 8:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Makko Mace
I don't think this is an argument any of us could win, there's just too many unknowns.


I am not even in this petty debate and it was clear that abrams won.



Why?


from everything rag pointed out not to mention i know about the tank a little myself.

And we have a good amount of info on the scorpion not to mention we have things to make calculations on and even had them in a book (the flood).


I am not going to contribute, but i am here to say that it has been over

  • 08.01.2011 8:29 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Makko Mace

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Makko Mace
I don't think this is an argument any of us could win, there's just too many unknowns.


I am not even in this petty debate and it was clear that abrams won.



Why?


from everything rag pointed out not to mention i know about the tank a little myself.

And we have a good amount of info on the scorpion not to mention we have things to make calculations on and even had them in a book (the flood).


I am not going to contribute, but i am here to say that it has been over


Nothing pointed out by rag, other than profile size was relevant to the current conversation.

Exelllent6 has how ever made good points.

  • 08.01.2011 8:34 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression

Thanks, and I'm surprised at how how much resistance team scorpion has been broken down to.
Anyways...i'd want to say the m1 wins.

  • 08.01.2011 8:54 PM PDT

As far as we know, all of the scorpion is armor excluding the turret, operator cabin, treads the rear engine.

The unique profile of the tank gives it the ability to shot whilst having the majority of the tank hidden and protected by terrain.

This gives it a major advantage in a defense position.

the ballistics tipped armor piercing rounds it apparently has makes the chobham armor of the Abrams less effective, the ballistics tip detonates and then the armor piercing tungsten round strikes the detonation zone and punch through the remaining armor, resulting in a "double impact".

In the end you could say that the tank which wins is the first one to fire but, that being said, the Scorpion has more advantages and less loss of life and cheaper.

  • 08.01.2011 9:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: otterboyz
As far as we know, all of the scorpion is armor excluding the turret, operator cabin, treads the rear engine.

The unique profile of the tank gives it the ability to shot whilst having the majority of the tank hidden and protected by terrain.

This gives it a major advantage in a defense position.

the ballistics tipped armor piercing rounds it apparently has makes the chobham armor of the Abrams less effective, the ballistics tip detonates and then the armor piercing tungsten round strikes the detonation zone and punch through the remaining armor, resulting in a "double impact".

In the end you could say that the tank which wins is the first one to fire but, that being said, the Scorpion has more advantages and less loss of life and cheaper.



Excuse me. Where you did get info that Scorpion uses this round of "ballistic tipped armor piercing tungsten"? Halo CE manual confirmed that Scorpion uses 90mm HE shells, not slugs.

And, do you realize that Abram's armor is designed to STOP kinetic penerator energy-based warheads, RPGS, HEAT rounds, HE shells! Scorpion's 90mm HE shell is USELESS against Abrams. For love of god, DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE YOU POST!

And, Abram's 120mm High Velocity (it can be that way) smooth-bore cannon that fires Armour-piercing discarding sabot (known as APFSDS) and also it can fire variety of rounds too.

Let me explain you about APFSDS. It is preferred of M829A2 or M829A3. It uses tungsten or depleted uranium which it makes excellent for penetrating armor. Its main gun's effective range is 1.9 miles away which it is plenty enough for Abrams to destroy Scorpions in long range without risking their Abrams.

I am sorry but Abrams wins against Scorpion, AGAIN.

  • 08.01.2011 10:25 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression

Thankyou, I salute you Ragnok.

  • 08.01.2011 11:14 PM PDT

"I will show you how a true Prussian officer fights!"

"And i will show you where the iron crosses grow..."

- "Cross of Iron"

The scorpions use of HE shells against the Abrams as its primary source of ammunition renders it useless against the Abrams reactive armor.

  • 08.01.2011 11:23 PM PDT

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I don't want to get this started again... but it would be idiocy to have thousands of spaceships hundreds of thousands of marines spread through the galaxly, dozens of colonized worlds and for the UNSC to have forgotten to manufacture AP ammuntion.

From Halo 3 The Ark "Hey, how does 90 millimeters of tungsten strike you?"

That quote may seem ambiguous but a Quick Google cleared things up nicely.



Also Ragnorok:

Where is the max range of the Scorpion stated?

When has an Abrams been struck with a modern (not an cold war era) anti tank round from a similar sized weapon?



Your logic seems to be "Because the Abrams has X the Scorpion has to worse.

[Edited on 08.01.2011 11:38 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2011 11:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Makko Mace
I don't want to get this started again... but it would be idiocy to have thousands of spaceships hundreds of thousands of marines spread through the galaxly, dozens of colonized worlds and for the UNSC to have forgotten to manufacture AP ammuntion.

From Halo 3 The Ark "Hey, how does 90 millimeters of tungsten strike you?"

Also Ragnorok:

Where is the max range of the Scorpion stated?

When has an Abrams been struck with a modern (not an cold war era) anti tank round from a similar sized weapon?



Your logic seems to be "Because the Abrams has X the Scorpion has to worse.


What type of tungsten rounds? HE/AP, HEAT, etc...? And, Abrams tested their weapons on Abrams to test their durability, found out that it takes multiple hits to destroy it. They usually test their armor before deploying to the combat situation, lol. Remember, depleted uranium meshed armor have better protection against anti-armor warheads like HE/AP, HEAT, etc. I don't think that 90mm of tungsten shell aren't going do -blam!- against Abrams. In fact, UNSC's technology in future sucks compared to modern era. (Except warships and FTL, lol.)

There is no known range of Scorpions.

And 90mm HE shells is most common source for ammunition and probably most cheapest to produce. Still won't do -blam!- against Abrams armor because of depleted uranium meshs and reactive armor too.

  • 08.01.2011 11:42 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Makko Mace
I don't want to get this started again... but it would be idiocy to have thousands of spaceships hundreds of thousands of marines spread through the galaxly, dozens of colonized worlds and for the UNSC to have forgotten to manufacture AP ammuntion.

From Halo 3 The Ark "Hey, how does 90 millimeters of tungsten strike you?"

Also Ragnorok:

Where is the max range of the Scorpion stated?

When has an Abrams been struck with a modern (not an cold war era) anti tank round from a similar sized weapon?



Your logic seems to be "Because the Abrams has X the Scorpion has to worse.


What type of tungsten rounds? HE/AP, HEAT, etc...? And, Abrams tested their weapons on Abrams to test their durability, found out that it takes multiple hits to destroy it. They usually test their armor before deploying to the combat situation, lol. Remember, depleted uranium meshed armor have better protection against anti-armor warheads like HE/AP, HEAT, etc. I don't think that 90mm of tungsten shell aren't going do -blam!- against Abrams. In fact, UNSC's technology in future sucks compared to modern era. (Except warships and FTL, lol.)

There is no known range of Scorpions.

And 90mm HE shells is most common source for ammunition and probably most cheapest to produce. Still won't do -blam!- against Abrams armor because of depleted uranium meshs and reactive armor too.
And how would this armor fare against a double barreled 120mm Grizzly?

  • 08.01.2011 11:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Makko Mace
I don't want to get this started again... but it would be idiocy to have thousands of spaceships hundreds of thousands of marines spread through the galaxly, dozens of colonized worlds and for the UNSC to have forgotten to manufacture AP ammuntion.

From Halo 3 The Ark "Hey, how does 90 millimeters of tungsten strike you?"

Also Ragnorok:

Where is the max range of the Scorpion stated?

When has an Abrams been struck with a modern (not an cold war era) anti tank round from a similar sized weapon?



Your logic seems to be "Because the Abrams has X the Scorpion has to worse.


What type of tungsten rounds? HE/AP, HEAT, etc...? And, Abrams tested their weapons on Abrams to test their durability, found out that it takes multiple hits to destroy it. They usually test their armor before deploying to the combat situation, lol. Remember, depleted uranium meshed armor have better protection against anti-armor warheads like HE/AP, HEAT, etc. I don't think that 90mm of tungsten shell aren't going do -blam!- against Abrams. In fact, UNSC's technology in future sucks compared to modern era. (Except warships and FTL, lol.)

There is no known range of Scorpions.

And 90mm HE shells is most common source for ammunition and probably most cheapest to produce. Still won't do -blam!- against Abrams armor because of depleted uranium meshs and reactive armor too.
And how would this armor fare against a double barreled 120mm Grizzly?


Sorry, but Grizzly is discontinued due to being expensive. And it only appeared at Harvest, Arcadia and shield world so far.

Well, I would say Grizzly is on par with Abrams so far.

  • 08.02.2011 12:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The grizzly was forge's special unit, so there is nothing about it "actually" being made.

[Edited on 08.02.2011 12:13 AM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 12:12 AM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

The M850 Main Battle Tank is not limited to Forge.
Fact.

[Edited on 08.02.2011 1:41 AM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 1:40 AM PDT

Error 404:
-Error not found.

I find it funny we're debating over something impossible.
In the future, we have technology that is WORSE than what we have now?


Invalid.

  • 08.02.2011 2:05 AM PDT


Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
I find it funny we're debating over something impossible.
In the future, we have technology that is WORSE than what we have now?


Invalid.
That is actually something that has happened in a lot of science fiction stories set in the future, Planet of the Apes being one, along with the Humanity in Crpytum.

  • 08.02.2011 2:17 AM PDT