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  • Subject: M1A Abrams vs...
Subject: M1A Abrams vs...
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Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
I find it funny we're debating over something impossible.
In the future, we have technology that is WORSE than what we have now?


Invalid.
That is actually something that has happened in a lot of science fiction stories set in the future, Planet of the Apes being one, along with the Humanity in Crpytum.


In Cryptum, it isn't our fault we have horribad tech, it's the xenophobic Forerunners.

  • 08.02.2011 3:58 AM PDT

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A Scorpion could kill an Abram, power plus armor will kill the speedy three-piloted Abrams. The Grizzly is more powerful with better plating- more damage could be taken, and more heavy rounds can be shot faster.

  • 08.02.2011 4:20 AM PDT

Weapon of Oppression

*sigh*
Do I really want to go to through all this again ?
Well I do know that the abrams would win against the scorion tank and rhino.
But we don't know the maximum range of the Grizzly's turret, or how fast it is.
We don't know what the armor is made outt of other than it might just as well be made up of the simple one layer plates of titanium ceramic.
Again, with the design flaws, even if the grizzly might be considered "better" than the scorpion, how does two main cannons help it in any way ?
Does it make the chances of it hitting something more pratical ?
A shot to that over exposed turret of the Grizzly and what do you guys think will happen ?
It's simple physics, the UNSC aren't exactly geniuses when it comes to ground vehicles and designing them, or weapon wise.

  • 08.02.2011 5:35 AM PDT

I DO have time to bleed...i just dont want to.

is an abrams tank a grizzly??

  • 08.02.2011 6:16 AM PDT

Six, the Grizzly's turret is no more exposed then the Abram's turret.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Abrams-tra nsparent.png I mean, look at that, the Abram's turret = half the damn tank.

Even then, the Grizzly has far more armor then the Scorpion, so much that it + the different turret requires a fifth tread to run.

[Edited on 08.02.2011 9:39 AM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 8:21 AM PDT

Weapon of Oppression

But the armor on the abrams turret makes it so that it isn't a obvious weakness looming over the rest of the tank.
It's not as exposed and the armor is slanted at its sides, allowing incomming projectiles to simply deflect, while yes its turret pretty much makes up half of its mass, it's not designed in such a way that it would give such an obvious target for the grizzly.

  • 08.02.2011 9:33 AM PDT

Weapon of Oppression

And sure, we might need another thread, but this one works fine.
The armor on the grizzly isn't complex or in layers, yes it maybe thicker, but not any denser, I doubt it's designed to withstand a sabot round from the m1. The M1 I able to tank RPGs and kinetic energy penetrators because of its multiple layers of different alloys and armor along with the ways they're positioned.

  • 08.02.2011 9:37 AM PDT

And what do we know about the Grizzly's armor other then it's heavier then the scorpions?

Besides, it'd take the Grizzly a single shot to disable the Abrams.

  • 08.02.2011 9:40 AM PDT
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We all need to remember that the full canon specs on a Scorpion haven't been fleshed out yet, but for the current specs, the Abrams wins.

  • 08.02.2011 9:41 AM PDT

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Posted by: Onyx81
We all need to remember that the full canon specs on a Scorpion haven't been fleshed out yet, but for the current specs, the Abrams wins.


Agreed we shouldn't really compare the grizzly because not much is known about them. Abrams beats the scorpion.

  • 08.02.2011 9:46 AM PDT


Posted by: Raptorx7

Posted by: Onyx81
We all need to remember that the full canon specs on a Scorpion haven't been fleshed out yet, but for the current specs, the Abrams wins.


Agreed we shouldn't really compare the grizzly because not much is known about them. Abrams beats the scorpion.


yeah, but I doubt it's such a drastically clear cut-victory as I've seen it described.

I mean, it's almost like the Abrams is being described as "Able to go far faster, be far more accurate, have far greater range, and able to hit targets while going full speed."

Never did say how many 90mm rounds(or 105mm if we use the upgraded scorpion barrel) it would take to disable an Abrams.

  • 08.02.2011 10:06 AM PDT

Weapon of Oppression


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Raptorx7

Posted by: Onyx81
We all need to remember that the full canon specs on a Scorpion haven't been fleshed out yet, but for the current specs, the Abrams wins.


Agreed we shouldn't really compare the grizzly because not much is known about them. Abrams beats the scorpion.


yeah, but I doubt it's such a drastically clear cut-victory as I've seen it described.

I mean, it's almost like the Abrams is being described as "Able to go far faster, be far more accurate, have far greater range, and able to hit targets while going full speed."

Never did say how many 90mm rounds(or 105mm if we use the upgraded scorpion barrel) it would take to disable an Abrams.


Then again a lot of people kept claiming that one shot from a scorpion could destroy the abrams, and I sought out how the weakness of the scorpion is in it's design.

I don't believe anyone actually claimed the M1 was faster.


[Edited on 08.02.2011 2:51 PM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 2:49 PM PDT

Well, DMRs can't asplode an abrams, so my vote goes for that. ;)

  • 08.02.2011 3:09 PM PDT


Posted by: billylikeapuma
Well, DMRs can't asplode an abrams, so my vote goes for that. ;)


Gameplay...

  • 08.02.2011 3:18 PM PDT

Being facetious...

  • 08.02.2011 3:33 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: billylikeapuma
Well, DMRs can't asplode an abrams, so my vote goes for that. ;)


Gameplay...


he did wink face, so he was jking.
Anyways if, anything the ppilot in the grizzly is more vulnurable to small arms fire than the M1

  • 08.02.2011 3:35 PM PDT


Posted by: ExcellentSix

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: billylikeapuma
Well, DMRs can't asplode an abrams, so my vote goes for that. ;)


Gameplay...


he did wink face, so he was jking.
Anyways if, anything the ppilot in the grizzly is more vulnurable to small arms fire than the M1


I don't see how so. Still stand by my viewpoint the Grizzly can disable, then take out an Abrams easily. (I've not gotten a reply from my repeated question of how many 90mm scorpion tank rounds, or the 120mm rounds an Abrams would take.)

Reason? First pair of Grizzly rounds hit the Abram's treads. Now it's crippled and cannot move while the Grizzly keeps moving and fires the second volley. Unlike the Abram's, the Grizzly's treads are surrounded by armor.

  • 08.02.2011 3:42 PM PDT

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You guys seem to think that 90mm gives you all the information about a round. This is completely wrong.


Here are 3 kinds of .22 ammunition

But some how, all of those have wildly different armor peircing capabilities and kinetic energy.

A .22 pistol round will not go through a balillistic vest, but a .22 long rifle with fmj will another story.

90mm is not enough info to determine the effects on a target. You would need the velocity, and the composition of the shell.

None of these are known about the Scorpions weapon.




As an example the Gauss pellets are tiny and yet rip through everything in their path, because of their velocity.



[Edited on 08.02.2011 4:50 PM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 4:49 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Makko Mace
I don't want to get this started again... but it would be idiocy to have thousands of spaceships hundreds of thousands of marines spread through the galaxly, dozens of colonized worlds and for the UNSC to have forgotten to manufacture AP ammuntion.

From Halo 3 The Ark "Hey, how does 90 millimeters of tungsten strike you?"

Also Ragnorok:

Where is the max range of the Scorpion stated?

When has an Abrams been struck with a modern (not an cold war era) anti tank round from a similar sized weapon?



Your logic seems to be "Because the Abrams has X the Scorpion has to worse.


What type of tungsten rounds? HE/AP, HEAT, etc...? And, Abrams tested their weapons on Abrams to test their durability, found out that it takes multiple hits to destroy it. They usually test their armor before deploying to the combat situation, lol. Remember, depleted uranium meshed armor have better protection against anti-armor warheads like HE/AP, HEAT, etc. I don't think that 90mm of tungsten shell aren't going do -blam!- against Abrams. In fact, UNSC's technology in future sucks compared to modern era. (Except warships and FTL, lol.)

Tungsten is used in Armor Piercing rounds.


There is no known range of Scorpions.

So we can't compare that then.

And 90mm HE shells is most common source for ammunition and probably most cheapest to produce. Still won't do -blam!- against Abrams armor because of depleted uranium meshs and reactive armor too.

Because it most commonly uses HE, it would use them in a Tank on Tank battle? That is beyond retarded.


[Edited on 08.02.2011 4:54 PM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 4:53 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

In all honesty I don't think we can do an even comparison.

  • 08.02.2011 4:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Raptorx7

Posted by: Onyx81
We all need to remember that the full canon specs on a Scorpion haven't been fleshed out yet, but for the current specs, the Abrams wins.


Agreed we shouldn't really compare the grizzly because not much is known about them. Abrams beats the scorpion.


yeah, but I doubt it's such a drastically clear cut-victory as I've seen it described.

I mean, it's almost like the Abrams is being described as "Able to go far faster, be far more accurate, have far greater range, and able to hit targets while going full speed."

Never did say how many 90mm rounds(or 105mm if we use the upgraded scorpion barrel) it would take to disable an Abrams.


By long story, Abrams beats Scorpion easily. Game over.

Also, we can't compare Abrams to Grizzly because Grizzly is not mass produced, was special unit made by SGT FORGE. Also there is lack of canon information about Grizzly too, as same thing for Scorpions.

Remember about AFSFSD rounds? They use tungsten or depleted uranium just like Scorpion does. However, Scorpion would have difficulty with trying to destroy Abrams because ITS PROVEN THAT it takes multiple of AFSFSDs to penetrate the Abrams!

TO EVERYBODY, before you say "Scorpion wins or whatever", DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE MAKING THAT CLAIM!

So given current situation, Abrams wins.

  • 08.02.2011 6:06 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ExcellentSix

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: billylikeapuma
Well, DMRs can't asplode an abrams, so my vote goes for that. ;)


Gameplay...


he did wink face, so he was jking.
Anyways if, anything the ppilot in the grizzly is more vulnurable to small arms fire than the M1


I don't see how so. Still stand by my viewpoint the Grizzly can disable, then take out an Abrams easily. (I've not gotten a reply from my repeated question of how many 90mm scorpion tank rounds, or the 120mm rounds an Abrams would take.)

Reason? First pair of Grizzly rounds hit the Abram's treads. Now it's crippled and cannot move while the Grizzly keeps moving and fires the second volley. Unlike the Abram's, the Grizzly's treads are surrounded by armor.


Just because it has armor on the threads doesn't mean it can't be penetrated by the hyper velocity rounds of the M1.
The M1 may just as easily be capable of disabling the grizzly via shot to the threads, even if it is armored.
It's not like it's a meter thick of titanium ceramic covering the threads, and the kinetic energy penetrators shouldn't have a roblem at all gutting the grizzly.
That turret still is a design flaw.

  • 08.02.2011 6:09 PM PDT

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question...............

and "Hyper velocity?" lol.

  • 08.02.2011 6:20 PM PDT

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Posted by: ExcellentSix
I'd much rather be armed with an AK47 than an MA5C


Then my good man, you truly are retarded.

  • 08.02.2011 6:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shaboopi cannon

Posted by: ExcellentSix
I'd much rather be armed with an AK47 than an MA5C


Then my good man, you truly are retarded.


Nope, you don't understand extent of modern weapons compared to UNSC weapons.

In dumbed down version:

UNSC weapons is worse than modern weapons.

Ak-47 is better than MA5C.

  • 08.02.2011 6:42 PM PDT