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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why Didn't the Flood Steal Forward Unto Dawn?
  • Subject: Why Didn't the Flood Steal Forward Unto Dawn?
Subject: Why Didn't the Flood Steal Forward Unto Dawn?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Considering that the Flood is capable of leaping over small mountains and buildings (Quarantine Zone, Floodgate, Halo). It's clear that they're perfectly capable.

It's a bit absurd to say that the Flood can't make a jump that a four-wheeled human vehicle could.


Back that up? I NEVER, EVER remember seeing flood forms do those jumps. These are infected humans and elites in those missions, NOT -blam!- superman. Small mountains are damn big.

Even then, the warthog BARELY made the landing, and it was going full speed + downhill slope + ramp for jumping.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 6:42 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 6:41 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
since when did the flood become the smartest aliens in the galaxy?


If they were that smart rob the CSS would have landed in a large populated area or mara,luna,etc.

If they were that smart high charity would have just jumped to earth and infected the entire planet.


Don't try to make the flood the smartest beast around all of a sudden, we could make a list of things they should have done but didn't


How did the Flood know that Chief was there, if they didn't know the Frigate was as well? It's kind of a hard thing to not notice.
The Flood were under control from the Gravemind, and the Gravemind isn't really all that dumb, from what I've seen.

  • 07.30.2011 6:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Assuming that the Flood even knows that the Dawn is there.

Also, how is the Flood supposed to get inside the ship? It is hovering several dozen metres over a unimaginably deep crevice.[/quote]

I really don't think a crevice would stop them.[/quote]

I heard they invented a thing called gravity recently, I think it's just a fad...[/quote]

*facepalm*
Flood Dispersal Pods would probably REALLY help them get onto the Frigate without trouble.
Not to mention that the Flood can jump ungodly heights. They could have EASILY leaped into the hanger of the Frigate in the same way Master Chief did.


they clearly didn't know the ship was there then and it wouldn't matter anyway because the array would be activated before they got anywhere.

And the flood couldn't jump that, i think you should go back and see how large that gap is


Considering that the Flood is capable of leaping over small mountains and buildings (Quarantine Zone, Floodgate, Halo). It's clear that they're perfectly capable.

It's a bit absurd to say that the Flood can't make a jump that a four-wheeled human vehicle could.


WTF? WHEN did the flood EVER jump over "small mountains"? do you even know what a mountain is? and what would a "small" version be?


Hills and mountains ARE NOT the same.

  • 07.30.2011 6:44 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Considering that the Flood is capable of leaping over small mountains and buildings (Quarantine Zone, Floodgate, Halo). It's clear that they're perfectly capable.

It's a bit absurd to say that the Flood can't make a jump that a four-wheeled human vehicle could.


Back that up? I NEVER, EVER remember seeing flood forms do those jumps. These are infected humans and elites in those missions, NOT -blam!- superman. Small mountains are damn big.

Even then, the warthog BARELY made the landing, and it was going full speed + downhill slope + ramp for jumping.


If you watch the cutscene, you can clearly see that the Warthog landed with room to spare.

  • 07.30.2011 6:44 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
You don't give Mendicant Bias enough credit.
I agree with cobra here. Not only was Mendicant stopping them but there are also the station defenses to consider and the fact that the chief barely got to the Dawn by jumping.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 6:45 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 6:45 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

You already have your answer BlueRuby. This is not an entirely difficult problem to rationalise. Stop trolling, and I know that is what you are trying to do from what I have seen.

  • 07.30.2011 6:45 PM PDT


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Considering that the Flood is capable of leaping over small mountains and buildings (Quarantine Zone, Floodgate, Halo). It's clear that they're perfectly capable.

It's a bit absurd to say that the Flood can't make a jump that a four-wheeled human vehicle could.


Back that up? I NEVER, EVER remember seeing flood forms do those jumps. These are infected humans and elites in those missions, NOT -blam!- superman. Small mountains are damn big.

Even then, the warthog BARELY made the landing, and it was going full speed + downhill slope + ramp for jumping.


If you watch the cutscene, you can clearly see that the Warthog landed with room to spare.


If you watched the cutscene, you'd see that the warthog didn't land it, it rolled into the hanger.

Still, support your flood jumping statement please.

  • 07.30.2011 6:45 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

So Ruby, explain how the Flood would get anywhere productive even if they got on the Dawn.

  • 07.30.2011 6:45 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra


You mean to tell me the UNSC would be sitting in their control rooms with their thumbs up their asses and let a ship that disappeared years ago from a mysterious alien installation that was crawling with alien zombie parasites waltz right on through Earth's defenses let alone get close to them?


How do you know they couldn't have done the same thing they tried at the end of The Storm? UNSC ships may not be capable of that, but still, there's no sure way to know what the UNSC's reaction would be to the Frigate arriving.


Huh? the first thing they would do is try to hail it and if it doesn't get a response it would get shot down. Remember the ending of halo 2?


All Lord Hood said was "It isn't one of ours, take it out.". Immediately after a Marine announced the Forerunner ship's presence.

  • 07.30.2011 6:45 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Considering that the Flood is capable of leaping over small mountains and buildings (Quarantine Zone, Floodgate, Halo). It's clear that they're perfectly capable.

It's a bit absurd to say that the Flood can't make a jump that a four-wheeled human vehicle could.


Back that up? I NEVER, EVER remember seeing flood forms do those jumps. These are infected humans and elites in those missions, NOT -blam!- superman. Small mountains are damn big.

Even then, the warthog BARELY made the landing, and it was going full speed + downhill slope + ramp for jumping.


If you watch the cutscene, you can clearly see that the Warthog landed with room to spare.


It's a HANGAR! It is supposed to be big, the Warthog barely made the jump across, then flipped multiple times and skidded to the back of the hangar.

What is it about this you cannot seem to comprehend?

  • 07.30.2011 6:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101
since when did the flood become the smartest aliens in the galaxy?


If they were that smart rob the CSS would have landed in a large populated area or mara,luna,etc.

If they were that smart high charity would have just jumped to earth and infected the entire planet.


Don't try to make the flood the smartest beast around all of a sudden, we could make a list of things they should have done but didn't


How did the Flood know that Chief was there, if they didn't know the Frigate was as well? It's kind of a hard thing to not notice.
The Flood were under control from the Gravemind, and the Gravemind isn't really all that dumb, from what I've seen.


um because the gravemind knew a ring was being made and that MC and cortana would go to it and try to light it. That is what the whole high charity scene was about, along with him saying he knows cortana's secret.

seeing how the frigate was pretty damn far from where the control room is i fail to see where you are trying to go with this.

The thread would be better if we were talking about how he knew where the ark was, but i don't get why the gravemind is suppose to know everything that happens now.


IT isn't that he is dumb, he just isn't the smartest parasite around.

  • 07.30.2011 6:47 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Posted by: ajw34307
"Gravemind, we have arrived at Installation 04B and our enemies are speeding to the Control Room where they can prematurely fire the rebuilt Halo to destroy us! But don't worry, instead of killing them we should just nick their ship so that they die with us. Logic ahoy!"


He's saying they should have stolen the ship, created a Flood Hive inside, and ran for it as a precaution in case the forces trying to kill the three failed, which truly makes perfect sense to me. You always need to leave yourself a way out, even if there's a possibility a god-like AI could telefrag you into a black hole or star. At least you have a shot.

That way the Mind could recuperate, rebuild his forces using some random planet with life he might find, and try again.

And, he's garunteed to have rid himself of three of the most dangerous living things in the universe besides himself, regardless if they destroy the Flood Hive on Installation 04 (II) by way of stealing their only means of escape.

And even if Medicant Bias telefraged the Dawn, the Gravemind clearly has a secondary plan alreasy in place judging from Halo 4 and his final words in Halo 3. But this way, his three worst enemies (and the one destined to save the universe) get blown to hell.

Really, it was in the Mind's best interests to try and commit say, 10% of his forces to stealing the Dawn, and if not steal it, destroy it.

A serious plot hole if you ask me.


But how could they have reached the Dawn? It's not like The Tale of the Three Brothers where they waved their wands a bit and made a bridge appear to cross a treacherous path, there was a 100 meter gap between the Dawn and the ramp which they could not have reached.


Who knows, I'm just throwing out my thoughts. I understand the plot requires certain liberties to be taken so the story can advance.

But unless the Flood spontaniously lost every single flying craft, Stalker Form, or Flood dispersal pod (windows, security hatches and the like can be used to gain entry) within the span of 5 minutes, I find it hard to believe the Gravemind didn't at least try it. (And to say the Gravemind isn't the most intelligent being in Halo is absoluely rediculous, despite what Halo 3's plot holes--which you yourself Grey have cited to be unacceptably high in number--would have done. He outsmarted and suduced Medicant Bias, who is the only other candidate for most intelliget being ever.).

  • 07.30.2011 6:47 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I've come to the conclusion that BlueRiby is completely stupid and unwilling to listen to reason. All agree say aye.


This is what I get for trying to have a nice debate? I didn't even think you were getting offended.


I'm not offended, you just don't seem to know ANYTHING.


That's obviously not true. I don't want to derail my thread because you can't keep a conversation under control without insulting someone.

  • 07.30.2011 6:48 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I've come to the conclusion that BlueRiby is completely stupid and unwilling to listen to reason. All agree say aye.


This is what I get for trying to have a nice debate? I didn't even think you were getting offended.


I'm not offended, you just don't seem to know ANYTHING.


That's obviously not true. I don't want to derail my thread because you can't keep a conversation under control without insulting someone.

Neither do I, but if you don't do the time to enlighten yourself on key issues, ie the Terminals and Cryptum, why give you the time?

[Edited on 07.30.2011 6:55 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 6:50 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Posted by: ajw34307
"Gravemind, we have arrived at Installation 04B and our enemies are speeding to the Control Room where they can prematurely fire the rebuilt Halo to destroy us! But don't worry, instead of killing them we should just nick their ship so that they die with us. Logic ahoy!"


He's saying they should have stolen the ship, created a Flood Hive inside, and ran for it as a precaution in case the forces trying to kill the three failed, which truly makes perfect sense to me. You always need to leave yourself a way out, even if there's a possibility a god-like AI could telefrag you into a black hole or star. At least you have a shot.

That way the Mind could recuperate, rebuild his forces using some random planet with life he might find, and try again.

And, he's garunteed to have rid himself of three of the most dangerous living things in the universe besides himself, regardless if they destroy the Flood Hive on Installation 04 (II) by way of stealing their only means of escape.

And even if Medicant Bias telefraged the Dawn, the Gravemind clearly has a secondary plan alreasy in place judging from Halo 4 and his final words in Halo 3. But this way, his three worst enemies (and the one destined to save the universe) get blown to hell.

Really, it was in the Mind's best interests to try and commit say, 10% of his forces to stealing the Dawn, and if not steal it, destroy it.

A serious plot hole if you ask me.


But how could they have reached the Dawn? It's not like The Tale of the Three Brothers where they waved their wands a bit and made a bridge appear to cross a treacherous path, there was a 100 meter gap between the Dawn and the ramp which they could not have reached.


Who knows, I'm just throwing out my thoughts. I understand the plot requires certain liberties to be taken so the story can advance.

But unless the Flood spontaniously lost every single flying craft, Stalker Form, or Flood dispersal pod (windows, security hatches and the like can be used to gain entry) within the span of 5 minutes, I find it hard to believe the Gravemind didn't at least try it. (And to say the Gravemind isn't the most intelligent being in Halo is absoluely rediculous, despite what Halo 3's plot holes--which you yourself Grey have cited to be unacceptably high in number--would have done. He outsmarted and suduced Medicant Bias, who is the only other candidate for most intelliget being ever.).


The Gravemind may be smart, but he is arrogant which is what is exploited in order to defeat him.

  • 07.30.2011 6:50 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Assuming that the Flood even knows that the Dawn is there.

Also, how is the Flood supposed to get inside the ship? It is hovering several dozen metres over a unimaginably deep crevice.[/quote]

I really don't think a crevice would stop them.[/quote]

I heard they invented a thing called gravity recently, I think it's just a fad...[/quote]

*facepalm*
Flood Dispersal Pods would probably REALLY help them get onto the Frigate without trouble.
Not to mention that the Flood can jump ungodly heights. They could have EASILY leaped into the hanger of the Frigate in the same way Master Chief did.


they clearly didn't know the ship was there then and it wouldn't matter anyway because the array would be activated before they got anywhere.

And the flood couldn't jump that, i think you should go back and see how large that gap is


Considering that the Flood is capable of leaping over small mountains and buildings (Quarantine Zone, Floodgate, Halo). It's clear that they're perfectly capable.

It's a bit absurd to say that the Flood can't make a jump that a four-wheeled human vehicle could.


WTF? WHEN did the flood EVER jump over "small mountains"? do you even know what a mountain is? and what would a "small" version be?


Hills and mountains ARE NOT the same.


The Flood are shown COUNTLESS times, leaping great heights, gaps, you name it. Hell, they can even very well climb walls like spiders. If simply jumping into the bay isn't good enough, then they could have easily landed on the Frigate from dispersal pods, and crawled their way into the Frigate from access hatches, or the from the open hanger.

  • 07.30.2011 6:51 PM PDT


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
The Flood are shown COUNTLESS times, leaping great heights, gaps, you name it. Hell, they can even very well climb walls like spiders. If simply jumping into the bay isn't good enough, then they could have easily landed on the Frigate from dispersal pods, and crawled their way into the Frigate from access hatches, or the from the open hanger.


I frankly cannot remember them every making leaps of THAT distance.

  • 07.30.2011 6:52 PM PDT

haters are gona hate

dont know if anyone remembered this or already said this but does anyone else remember it was still flying there wasnt a random forerunner dry dock that would fit a unsc frigate it was floating just like in one of the previous missions hence y chief had to jump across a chasm to make it on the ship. the flood can do many things but they canot fly very far( massive jumps dont count).

  • 07.30.2011 6:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Assuming that the Flood even knows that the Dawn is there.

Also, how is the Flood supposed to get inside the ship? It is hovering several dozen metres over a unimaginably deep crevice.[/quote]

I really don't think a crevice would stop them.[/quote]

I heard they invented a thing called gravity recently, I think it's just a fad...[/quote]

*facepalm*
Flood Dispersal Pods would probably REALLY help them get onto the Frigate without trouble.
Not to mention that the Flood can jump ungodly heights. They could have EASILY leaped into the hanger of the Frigate in the same way Master Chief did.[/quote]

they clearly didn't know the ship was there then and it wouldn't matter anyway because the array would be activated before they got anywhere.

And the flood couldn't jump that, i think you should go back and see how large that gap is[/quote]

Considering that the Flood is capable of leaping over small mountains and buildings (Quarantine Zone, Floodgate, Halo). It's clear that they're perfectly capable.

It's a bit absurd to say that the Flood can't make a jump that a four-wheeled human vehicle could.[/quote]

WTF? WHEN did the flood EVER jump over "small mountains"? do you even know what a mountain is? and what would a "small" version be?


Hills and mountains ARE NOT the same.


The Flood are shown COUNTLESS times, leaping great heights, gaps, you name it. Hell, they can even very well climb walls like spiders. If simply jumping into the bay isn't good enough, then they could have easily landed on the Frigate from dispersal pods, and crawled their way into the Frigate from access hatches, or the from the open hanger.


since when do great heights= "small mountain"? you are clearly exaggerating claims to prove your point,

The flood are roughly equal to a spartan in terms of physical prowess, so if MC and the arbiter could run and jump that gap neither could the flood.

Even if they could it would be pointless since infection forms wouldn't be able to join, and they are the only ones that would survive the array not to mention bolster the flood forces.

So the idea is flawed anyway.

  • 07.30.2011 6:55 PM PDT

Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation which were all reasonably VALID (except for the little quarrel about the Flood jumping distance)) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?

[Edited on 07.30.2011 7:05 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 6:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?
We don't know where he was rebuilding himself on the ring. And as far as I'm concerned there were thousands of sentinels blocking the Flood's path to the Frigate.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 7:08 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 7:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?


normally when a group of people say "you are wrong" it is normally correct, same as this case.


There would be nothing logical nor strategic for the gravemind to just run for no reason.

Um now I might be wrong here but i don't see how a fallacy is connected to the game. if anything there are more fallacies in some of the arguments here (which i find funny how you mentioned it), which fallacy does the game follow if i might ask?

  • 07.30.2011 7:05 PM PDT


Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?
We don't know where he was rebuilding himself on the ring. And as far as I'm concerned there were thousands of sentinels blocking the Flood's path to the carrier.


Judging from the giant tentacles under the Ark's control center, I'd say under there...

  • 07.30.2011 7:06 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?

  • 07.30.2011 7:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?
We don't know where he was rebuilding himself on the ring. And as far as I'm concerned there were thousands of sentinels blocking the Flood's path to the carrier.


Judging from the giant tentacles under the Ark's control center, I'd say under there...


that wasn't on the ring.

  • 07.30.2011 7:08 PM PDT