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  • Subject: Why Didn't the Flood Steal Forward Unto Dawn?
Subject: Why Didn't the Flood Steal Forward Unto Dawn?
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Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?
We don't know where he was rebuilding himself on the ring. And as far as I'm concerned there were thousands of sentinels blocking the Flood's path to the carrier.


Judging from the giant tentacles under the Ark's control center, I'd say under there...
Remember though that, at that point in time. Gravemind was practically High Charity itself. So when MC blew up High Charity, he nearly killed Gravemind, crippling him greatly.

Also, What Grey says is true. He wasn't on Halo. He just started to rebuild himself.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 7:13 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 7:10 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?


normally when a group of people say "you are wrong" it is normally correct, same as this case.


There would be nothing logical nor strategic for the gravemind to just run for no reason.

Um now I might be wrong here but i don't see how a fallacy is connected to the game. if anything there are more fallacies in some of the arguments here (which i find funny how you mentioned it), which fallacy does the game follow if i might ask?


You contradicted yourself. You're saying the Gravemind isn't the smartest one, but then you make mention of logic and strategy.

If you just open your mind, it's quite clear that the part of the game I'm pointing out really requires more explaining.

For now, I'm going to make my own explanation by saying that Cortana (or Johnson) jammed the Frigate's controls until Chief gave her control of it. Still, the Flood could have potentially hacked the controls, but I don't think they'd have time to find out how to do all of that before Chief and Arbiter got there to reclaim it. (I know I'm contradicting a statement in my OP. Editing.)

But one more thing comes to mind. If Flood didn't take control of the ship, then they could have hid on it. However, Cortana would have detected them anyway, so that's ruled out.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 7:14 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 7:13 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?
We don't know where he was rebuilding himself on the ring. And as far as I'm concerned there were thousands of sentinels blocking the Flood's path to the carrier.


Judging from the giant tentacles under the Ark's control center, I'd say under there...


that wasn't on the ring.


Whoopsies, then. My mistake.

  • 07.30.2011 7:16 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?


Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?

  • 07.30.2011 7:16 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?


Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?

Sentinels.

  • 07.30.2011 7:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?


normally when a group of people say "you are wrong" it is normally correct, same as this case.


There would be nothing logical nor strategic for the gravemind to just run for no reason.

Um now I might be wrong here but i don't see how a fallacy is connected to the game. if anything there are more fallacies in some of the arguments here (which i find funny how you mentioned it), which fallacy does the game follow if i might ask?


You contradicted yourself. You're saying the Gravemind isn't the smartest one, but then you make mention of logic and strategy.

If you just open your mind, it's quite clear that the part of the game I'm pointing out really requires more explaining.

For now, I'm going to make my own explanation by saying that Cortana (or Johnson) jammed the Frigate's controls until Chief gave her control of it. Still, the Flood could have potentially hacked the controls, but I don't think they'd have time to find out how to do all of that before Chief and Arbiter got there to reclaim it. (I know I'm contradicting a statement in my OP. Editing.)

But one more thing comes to mind. If Flood didn't take control of the ship, then they could have hid on it. However, Cortana would have detected them anyway, so that's ruled out.
Did you not read my reply? Sure he may be extremely smart, but without his physical body, he can't stop anything himself. Also, again, there were thousands of sentinels so I doubt he or his combat forms could have goten past them. could have gotten

  • 07.30.2011 7:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Just saying now that I've layed out all of my points in the thread, so I'm good for now.

I'm not trying to change you guys' minds, (I know I couldn't if I tried my very hardest) I just wanted to point out this undeniable fallacy in the story of the game. There were too many flashing possibilites (as all of us pointed out in our conversation) for Cortana's plan to be considered "foolproof". Though, perhaps Cortana never intended for it to be, instead relying on Chief's supposed "luck", but that's a stretch too far, eh?


normally when a group of people say "you are wrong" it is normally correct, same as this case.


There would be nothing logical nor strategic for the gravemind to just run for no reason.

Um now I might be wrong here but i don't see how a fallacy is connected to the game. if anything there are more fallacies in some of the arguments here (which i find funny how you mentioned it), which fallacy does the game follow if i might ask?


You contradicted yourself. You're saying the Gravemind isn't the smartest one, but then you make mention of logic and strategy.

If you just open your mind, it's quite clear that the part of the game I'm pointing out really requires more explaining.

For now, I'm going to make my own explanation by saying that Cortana (or Johnson) jammed the Frigate's controls until Chief gave her control of it. Still, the Flood could have potentially hacked the controls, but I don't think they'd have time to find out how to do all of that before Chief and Arbiter got there to reclaim it. (I know I'm contradicting a statement in my OP. Editing.)

But one more thing comes to mind. If Flood didn't take control of the ship, then they could have hid on it. However, Cortana would have detected them anyway, so that's ruled out.


It isn't a contradiction but an observation and i never said he was stupid just not as smart as some people are trying to make him out to be.


There is no way the flood could have gotten on that ship and even if they could it would be pointless; THAT would justify for him being stupid if he did that.

The gravemind as consumed countless engineers,pilots,etc
Hacking would have been non existent.

Hid on the ship in which MB would have detected them and sent them to oblivion.

  • 07.30.2011 7:21 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?


Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?

Sentinels.


But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense against the Flood.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 7:23 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 7:21 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?


Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?

Sentinels.


But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.


Mendicant Bias is a Contender-class ancilla created by the Forerunners and programmed by the Didact, he would win.

  • 07.30.2011 7:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?[/quote]

Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?[/quote]
Sentinels.


But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.


Um MB would have re-routed EVERYTHING on that ring to make sure chief made it out alive.

  • 07.30.2011 7:22 PM PDT
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Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

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"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
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Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?


Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?

Sentinels.


But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.
In gameplay they are. Who knows how strong canon Sentinels are. But they must be effective because they're designed to defend Halo against anything.

  • 07.30.2011 7:23 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?[/quote]

Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?[/quote]
Sentinels.


But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.


Um MB would have re-routed EVERYTHING on that ring to make sure chief made it out alive.


The Sentinels sure had a funny way of showing it by shooting at the Chief after he killed Spark.

  • 07.30.2011 7:24 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?[/quote]

Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?[/quote]
Sentinels.


But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.


Um MB would have re-routed EVERYTHING on that ring to make sure chief made it out alive.


The Sentinels sure had a funny way of showing it by shooting at the Chief after he killed Spark.


Anything that is seen as an enemy to the Halo rings are targeted as enemies, the Forerunners learned that the hard way in Crytpum.

  • 07.30.2011 7:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?[/quote]

Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?[/quote]
Sentinels.[/quote]

But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.[/quote]

Um MB would have re-routed EVERYTHING on that ring to make sure chief made it out alive.


The Sentinels sure had a funny way of showing it by shooting at the Chief after he killed Spark.


would have since you clearly didn't see that or understood what that meant.

IF there were an army of flood waiting for chief reinforcements would have been allocated to help chief.

  • 07.30.2011 7:26 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?[/quote]

Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?[/quote]
Sentinels.


But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.


Um MB would have re-routed EVERYTHING on that ring to make sure chief made it out alive.


The Sentinels sure had a funny way of showing it by shooting at the Chief after he killed Spark.


Anything that is seen as an enemy to the Halo rings are targeted as enemies, the Forerunners learned that the hard way in Crytpum.


That doesn't explain why killing Chief would assure him to get out alive.

  • 07.30.2011 7:27 PM PDT
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Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

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"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
-Onyx81

So given what we know. The Flood couldn't hijack the Forward Unto Dawn for a multitude of reasons.

1) Gravemind was severely weakened

2) There were thousands of sentinels to protect every inch of Installation 04.

3) MB had Chief's back.

[Edited on 07.30.2011 7:28 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 7:28 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?[/quote]

Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?[/quote]
Sentinels.[/quote]

But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.[/quote]

Um MB would have re-routed EVERYTHING on that ring to make sure chief made it out alive.


The Sentinels sure had a funny way of showing it by shooting at the Chief after he killed Spark.


would have since you clearly didn't see that or understood what that meant.

IF there were an army of flood waiting for chief reinforcements would have been allocated to help chief.


That's a little too far-fetched. If there were supposedly thousands of Sentinels that were a major threat to Chief, wouldn't Bias have "programmed" them be friendly instead? Since he apparently really wanted to make sure Chief made it?

[Edited on 07.30.2011 7:31 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 7:28 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Keeping the entire Halo structure stable to allow Chief to escape and manage an army of Sentinels would be a Herculean effort. Even with hostile Sentinels, they were keeping the Flood at bay and would stop them from getting aboard the Dawn no matter who controlled them.

  • 07.30.2011 7:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?[/quote]

Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?[/quote]
Sentinels.[/quote]

But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.[/quote]

Um MB would have re-routed EVERYTHING on that ring to make sure chief made it out alive.


The Sentinels sure had a funny way of showing it by shooting at the Chief after he killed Spark.


Anything that is seen as an enemy to the Halo rings are targeted as enemies, the Forerunners learned that the hard way in Crytpum.


That doesn't explain why killing Chief would assure him to get out alive.


*Sigh* why don't you read the books, honestly? if you can't afford them i know where you could get them.

What he is saying is ANYTHING that is a threat to a array would be a target, regardless of anything.

  • 07.30.2011 7:31 PM PDT
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Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

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BlueRuby. I want to be sure do you now understand why the Flood couldn't hijack FUD?

  • 07.30.2011 7:31 PM PDT


Posted by: Onyx81
BlueRuby. I want to be sure do you now understand why the Flood couldn't hijack FUD?


Yes. I also see how they could hijack FUD. Once again, too many possibilities for it to be a good, sold part of the story.

  • 07.30.2011 7:32 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Onyx81
BlueRuby. I want to be sure do you now understand why the Flood couldn't hijack FUD?


Yes. I also see how they could hijack FUD. Once again, too many possibilities for it to be a good, sold part of the story.


They aren't valid possibilities if they aren't logical.

  • 07.30.2011 7:33 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?[/quote]

Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?[/quote]
Sentinels.[/quote]

But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.[/quote]

Um MB would have re-routed EVERYTHING on that ring to make sure chief made it out alive.


The Sentinels sure had a funny way of showing it by shooting at the Chief after he killed Spark.


Anything that is seen as an enemy to the Halo rings are targeted as enemies, the Forerunners learned that the hard way in Crytpum.


That doesn't explain why killing Chief would assure him to get out alive.


*Sigh* why don't you read the books, honestly? if you can't afford them i know where you could get them.

What he is saying is ANYTHING that is a threat to a array would be a target, regardless of anything.


My pointed is disjointed into multiple responses, so I'll lay it out here:
Bias wanted Chief out alive at all costs. So why didn't he reprogram the hostile Sentinels (like you suggest) to keep them from shooting at him, and potentially killing him?

[Edited on 07.30.2011 7:35 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2011 7:34 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Onyx81
BlueRuby. I want to be sure do you now understand why the Flood couldn't hijack FUD?


Yes. I also see how they could hijack FUD. Once again, too many possibilities for it to be a good, sold part of the story.


They aren't valid possibilities if they aren't logical.


The irony.

  • 07.30.2011 7:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Here's an ide, maybe Bias didn't allow the Flood the opportunity to get on the Dawn?[/quote]

Maybe, but by what means did you have in mind?[/quote]
Sentinels.[/quote]

But again, there's no way to know who would have won and lost. Sentinels are a pretty weak defense again the Flood.[/quote]

Um MB would have re-routed EVERYTHING on that ring to make sure chief made it out alive.[/quote]

The Sentinels sure had a funny way of showing it by shooting at the Chief after he killed Spark.[/quote]

Anything that is seen as an enemy to the Halo rings are targeted as enemies, the Forerunners learned that the hard way in Crytpum.


That doesn't explain why killing Chief would assure him to get out alive.


*Sigh* why don't you read the books, honestly? if you can't afford them i know where you could get them.

What he is saying is ANYTHING that is a threat to a array would be a target, regardless of anything.


My pointed is disjointed into multiple responses, so I'll lay it out here:
Bias wanted Chief out alive at all costs. So why didn't he reprogram the hostile Sentinels (like you suggest) to keep them from shooting at him, and potentially killing him?


Because i am positive trying to keep the ring stable was far more important than trying to stop what 30 sentinels from attack chief.

chief can handle himself.

  • 07.30.2011 7:36 PM PDT