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  • Subject: The mods seem Lazy recently
Subject: The mods seem Lazy recently

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Posted by: elmicker


Agree to disagree then. I have my beliefs on forum moderation and you have yours (and to be fair, I haven't really vocalized all of my personal opinions). And I in no way meant to imply your life was "worthless," those are your words, not mine.

I merely wanted to convey my opinion that a long response time is not the end of the world. One needs to differentiate between malicious content and non-malicious content. The former requires speedy moderation whereas the latter does not as it can be ignored.

Some of you, and I'm not targeting anyone in particular, place those in category two as things that need to be dealt with immediately and I strongly disagree with that approach. It is a bit silly.

(I also know you were talking to TGP, but I too brought up 24/7 coverage)

[Edited on 07.31.2011 2:46 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 2:44 PM PDT
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The biggest problem with the report tool, is that people don't know when to use it. Partially because people aren't too aware of the rules, as simple as they might be, or because they don't care enough. In the end, people only use it effectively against the most obvious things. The report queue is a great tool for moderators to help us catch things we might have missed, but it's obviously no answer to the larger problems there might be. Nor is it an answer to tell you guys to use the report tool.

I don't have problems with extra moderators either. It couldn't hurt (as long as the right people were chosen), but it the end it's no solution to the larger issues.

To me, the biggest problems are alt accounts. They are easy to make, they can easily join the website and after a small period of waiting they can go about there business until later we roll in take care of it. And then the cycle starts all over again.

[Edited on 07.31.2011 2:46 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 2:44 PM PDT
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Why is it that the people that aren't on as often as others are chosen to be Mods?

And yes I know it was because they were trustworthy, but how do they assert that status of trustworthiness?

  • 07.31.2011 2:47 PM PDT

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Posted by: x Lord Revan x
Posted by: elmicker

Agree to disagree then. I have my beliefs on forum moderation and you have yours (and to be fair, I haven't really vocalized all of my personal opinions). And I in no way meant to imply your life was "worthless," those are your words, not mine.
I merely wanted to convey my opinion that a long response time is not the end of the world. One needs to differentiate between malicious content and non-malicious content. The former requires speedy moderation whereas the latter does not as it can be ignored.
Some of you, and I'm not targeting anyone in particular, place those in category two as things that need to be dealt with immediately and I strongly disagree with that approach. It is a bit silly.
(I also know you were talking to TGP, but I too brought up 24/7 coverage)
Clearly these forums aren't that big a deal to you. Perhaps you should resign and hand over to someone who might actually do a good job of it.

  • 07.31.2011 2:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan
The biggest problem with the report tool, is that people don't know when to use it. Partially because people aren't too aware of the rules, as simple as they might be, or because they don't care enough. In the end, people only use it effectively against the most obvious things. The report queue is a great tool for moderators to help us catch things we might have missed, but it's obviously no answer to the larger problems there might be. Nor is it an answer to tell you guys to use the report tool.

I don't have problems with extra moderators either. It couldn't hurt (as long as the right people were chosen), but it the end it's no solution to the larger issues.

To me, the biggest problems are alt accounts. They are easy to make, they can easily join the website and after a small period of waiting they can go about there business until later we roll in take care of it. And then the cycle starts all over again.
But why is it that the community seems to know the alternate accounts more than the moderators?

  • 07.31.2011 2:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Onyx81
Why is it that the people that aren't on as often as others are chosen to be Mods?

And yes I know it was because they were trustworthy, but how do they assert that status of trustworthiness?


If they choose the wrong person, all hell would break loose. Could you imagine a troll with power?

  • 07.31.2011 2:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: rac0000n
Posted by: x Lord Revan x
Posted by: elmicker

Agree to disagree then. I have my beliefs on forum moderation and you have yours (and to be fair, I haven't really vocalized all of my personal opinions). And I in no way meant to imply your life was "worthless," those are your words, not mine.
I merely wanted to convey my opinion that a long response time is not the end of the world. One needs to differentiate between malicious content and non-malicious content. The former requires speedy moderation whereas the latter does not as it can be ignored.
Some of you, and I'm not targeting anyone in particular, place those in category two as things that need to be dealt with immediately and I strongly disagree with that approach. It is a bit silly.
(I also know you were talking to TGP, but I too brought up 24/7 coverage)
Clearly these forums aren't that big a deal to you. Perhaps you should resign and hand over to someone who might actually do a good job of it.
it's a bit harsh, but that's what you get when Bungie chooses adults with bigger priorities in life to moderate forums.

[Edited on 07.31.2011 2:50 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 2:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Onyx81
But why is it that the community seems to know the alternate accounts more than the moderators?

Explain.

  • 07.31.2011 2:50 PM PDT


Posted by: stepheng0228

Posted by: Onyx81
Why is it that the people that aren't on as often as others are chosen to be Mods?

And yes I know it was because they were trustworthy, but how do they assert that status of trustworthiness?


If they choose the wrong person, all hell would break loose. Could you imagine a troll with power?

You mean like Foman?

  • 07.31.2011 2:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: Covy Killer

Posted by: stepheng0228

Posted by: Onyx81
Why is it that the people that aren't on as often as others are chosen to be Mods?

And yes I know it was because they were trustworthy, but how do they assert that status of trustworthiness?


If they choose the wrong person, all hell would break loose. Could you imagine a troll with power?

You mean like Foman?
IDK any ninja. I mean every Ninja posting in this thread i've never even heard of.

  • 07.31.2011 2:51 PM PDT


Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: rac0000n
Posted by: x Lord Revan x
Posted by: elmicker

Agree to disagree then. I have my beliefs on forum moderation and you have yours (and to be fair, I haven't really vocalized all of my personal opinions). And I in no way meant to imply your life was "worthless," those are your words, not mine.
I merely wanted to convey my opinion that a long response time is not the end of the world. One needs to differentiate between malicious content and non-malicious content. The former requires speedy moderation whereas the latter does not as it can be ignored.
Some of you, and I'm not targeting anyone in particular, place those in category two as things that need to be dealt with immediately and I strongly disagree with that approach. It is a bit silly.
(I also know you were talking to TGP, but I too brought up 24/7 coverage)
Clearly these forums aren't that big a deal to you. Perhaps you should resign and hand over to someone who might actually do a good job of it.
it's a bit harsh, but that's what you get when Bungie chooses adults with bigger priorities in life to moderate forums.

The whole thing happened late anyway, not all mods are on all the time, so it expected for this to happen.

  • 07.31.2011 2:53 PM PDT
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Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

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"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
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Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: Onyx81
But why is it that the community seems to know the alternate accounts more than the moderators?

Explain.
Well, I'm on Bungie every day as I've stated before, and it seems like days go by and people groan because they know exactly who the Alternate was made by as soon as the "crime" (I.E. John Cena) happens. Then throughout the said day, the alternate account keeps posting more and more until it is locked. I've seen an alternate go for close to a weel without getting banned one time.

But again, it goes back to you guys not being online all the time. IDK, maybe it's just a talent the community has developed after being trolled for so long. At least to me, I feel like other people recognize it. It's probably mainly because the trolls repeat the same crime over and over.

[Edited on 07.31.2011 3:02 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 2:54 PM PDT

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it's a bit harsh, but that's what you get when Bungie chooses adults with bigger priorities in life to moderate forums.If they have big priorities then they shouldn't be mods.

  • 07.31.2011 2:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: stepheng0228
Could you imagine a troll with power?

*cough*

  • 07.31.2011 2:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan

The last thing you stated is the biggest part of the problem. My only idea really is too IP ban people, yes I know moderators do not have power on this site too do so. But if they did, then that would help out these forums a lot from trolls with all there alts.

The other idea I thought of is make a wait or something for someone new too these forums too post, but then again trolls would just sit there an wait for all those alts to become active to troll on these forums. So really, I say you should just be able to stomp on them an just ban them from this site forever.

EDIT:

Posted by: sam da man 2008
Posted by: stepheng0228
Could you imagine a troll with power?

*cough*


I remember that day too and the other one when Recon got his first account hacked.

[Edited on 07.31.2011 2:57 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 2:55 PM PDT

I too shall lie in the dust when I am dead, but now let me win noble renown.

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I mean, all of our moderators have been responsible and dutiful in their roles!

  • 07.31.2011 2:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: Onyx81
But why is it that the community seems to know the alternate accounts more than the moderators?

Explain.
Well, I'm on Bungie every day as I've stated before, and it seems like days go by and people groan because they know exactly who the Alternate was made by as soon as the "crime" (I.E. John Cena) happens. Then throughout the said day, the alternate account keeps posting more and more until it is locked. I've seen an alternate go for close to a weel without getting banned one time.

But again, it goes back to you guys not being online all the time.

I see. Well, here's my personal take on things:
if someone got banned and I know he just created an alt to get around that ban, his alt will be banned as well. If his alt goes unnoticed, but doesn't violate any rules; i don't care about the alt account because it doesn't do anything wrong. if the alt account ends up violating the rules, eventually he'll get cought.

But all of this doesn't help in the large scheme of things. We could even have "report user" button, but in the end it still means more alt accounts will be created.

  • 07.31.2011 2:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Lord Revan x
Agree to disagree then.
What's the point in that? If you find yourself in a posititon where your argument becomes indefensible to the point of having to "agree to disagree" you are, simply put, wrong. That, or you're incapable of proving yourself right, which is taiap the same thing.

And I in no way meant to imply your life was "worthless," those are your words, not mine.You're in serious need of re-evaluating your own priorities in life...even try walking away from your computer for some fresh air.Then I suggest you demand whoever is controlling your fingers produce an apology because if you didn't mean to type that, someone else certainly did.

....One needs to differentiate between malicious content and non-malicious content.... Incorrect. One needs to differentiate, first and foremost, between disruptive and non-disruptive content. Malice implies neither of those states. Non-disruptive posts can languish until the cows come home. Malice is very definitely second on the list, and concerns only the moderator and the offender in question, not the rest of the forum.

(I also know you were talking to TGP, but I too brought up 24/7 coverage)You were clearly, as you are wont to do, engaging in hyperbole. TGP was not.

  • 07.31.2011 3:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: rac0000n
I mean, all of our moderators have been responsible and dutiful in their roles!
Of all the choices, and they are legion, you bring up Impy? Say what you like about our probably very seriously insane friend, he did the job properly.

  • 07.31.2011 3:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: stepheng0228
My only idea really is too IP ban people, yes I know moderators do not have power on this site too do so. But if they did, then that would help out these forums a lot from trolls with all there alts.

I'm no expert on this subject but here goes: a lot of people here are in college and a lot people in college use the same IP address. If you IP ban one person, you'll be blocking a whole bunch of people on said IP. People with a dynamic address dodge the bullet as well.

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: x Lord Revan x
Agree to disagree then.
What's the point in that? If you find yourself in a posititon where your argument becomes indefensible to the point of having to "agree to disagree" you are, simply put, wrong.


I thought that was the point where you think you can't persuade the other party regardless of the things you say as they feel both parties they are "right."
Some times I say it when i get simply tired of a discussion, though.

[Edited on 07.31.2011 3:08 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 3:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: stepheng0228
My only idea really is too IP ban people, yes I know moderators do not have power on this site too do so. But if they did, then that would help out these forums a lot from trolls with all there alts.
I'm no expert on this subject but here goes: a lot of people here are in college and a lot people in college use the same IP address. If you IP ban one person, you'll be blocking a whole bunch of people on said IP. People with a dynamic address dodge the bullet as well.
Banning someone by IP address is like trying to catch a car thief by sitting in one car and hoping he tries to steal it.

The easiest way to approach the problem is not to get rid of disruptive people, but to add worth to accounts; to reward constructive members. The simplest way to do that is to add a significant time delay between creating the account and using the account. Say, a month before you can post in the flood, 3 months or more before you can post threads.


Posted by: just another fan
I thought that was the point where you think you can't persuade the other party regardless of the things you say as they feel both parties they are "right."
That's not agreeing to disagree, then, is it? That's coming to the conclusion that your opponent in argument is too stupid or too ill-equipped to properly understand the argument you are presenting.

There is no such thing as "agreeing to disagree". It's a cop out and backpedal of the highest order, when one party no longer wishes to engage in discussion, but still wishes to carry on hearing the sound of their own voice.

Some times I say it when i get simply tired of a discussion, though.Then we end up back at the point several raised, that if you don't have the strength of feeling about the site and your actions and your contributions to the site to defend those things, why did you do them in the first place? Of course, in this situation, it's perfectly acceptable to brush off the argument on the fact is has been done to death a dozen times before, but in general it holds.

[Edited on 07.31.2011 3:16 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 3:06 PM PDT
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This faith is my state.....otherwise Babylon.

Oh it's this again.

What's the point?

  • 07.31.2011 3:07 PM PDT
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Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to the death to say it!"

"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
-Onyx81


Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: Onyx81
But why is it that the community seems to know the alternate accounts more than the moderators?

Explain.
Well, I'm on Bungie every day as I've stated before, and it seems like days go by and people groan because they know exactly who the Alternate was made by as soon as the "crime" (I.E. John Cena) happens. Then throughout the said day, the alternate account keeps posting more and more until it is locked. I've seen an alternate go for close to a weel without getting banned one time.

But again, it goes back to you guys not being online all the time.

I see. Well, here's my personal take on things:
if someone got banned and I know he just created an alt to get around that ban, his alt will be banned as well. If his alt goes unnoticed, but doesn't violate any rules; i don't care about the alt account because it doesn't do anything wrong. if the alt account ends up violating the rules, eventually he'll get cought.

But all of this doesn't help in the large scheme of things. We could even have "report user" button, but in the end it still means more alt accounts will be created.
I revised my post a bit, and what you say IS true. However, you just need Mods that stay up later and be on more often.

Also, what you guys could do, is have so that after a Post is hidden due to the massive amounts of reports, once it reaches X amount of reports after that point, you could have the person temporary banned for a day and a warning sent out to mods so they know what happened.

At least that's my take on how things should be done.

[Edited on 07.31.2011 3:10 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2011 3:07 PM PDT


Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: stepheng0228
My only idea really is too IP ban people, yes I know moderators do not have power on this site too do so. But if they did, then that would help out these forums a lot from trolls with all there alts.
I'm no expert on this subject but here goes: a lot of people here are in college and a lot people in college use the same IP address. If you IP ban one person, you'll be blocking a whole bunch of people on said IP. People with a dynamic address dodge the bullet as well.
Banning someone by IP address is like trying to catch a car thief by sitting in one car and hoping he tries to steal it.

The easiest way to approach the problem is not to get rid of disruptive people, but to add worth to accounts; to reward constructive members. The simplest way to do that is to add a significant time delay between creating the account and using the account. Say, a month before you can post in the flood, 3 months or more before you can post threads.

That's a little much. If I would have had to wait an entire month to enter certain forums and a quarter of a year to make a thread, I would have left this site.

  • 07.31.2011 3:09 PM PDT


Posted by: Covy Killer

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: stepheng0228
My only idea really is too IP ban people, yes I know moderators do not have power on this site too do so. But if they did, then that would help out these forums a lot from trolls with all there alts.
I'm no expert on this subject but here goes: a lot of people here are in college and a lot people in college use the same IP address. If you IP ban one person, you'll be blocking a whole bunch of people on said IP. People with a dynamic address dodge the bullet as well.
Banning someone by IP address is like trying to catch a car thief by sitting in one car and hoping he tries to steal it.

The easiest way to approach the problem is not to get rid of disruptive people, but to add worth to accounts; to reward constructive members. The simplest way to do that is to add a significant time delay between creating the account and using the account. Say, a month before you can post in the flood, 3 months or more before you can post threads.

That's a little much. If I would have had to wait an entire month to enter certain forums and a quarter of a year to make a thread, I would have left this site.

Maybe they could do something a little more reasonable like 1 day to a week for posting or making a new thread, that way alts won't be as big of a problem.

  • 07.31.2011 3:13 PM PDT