- anton1792
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- Noble Legendary Member
"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
1) Terminology
a) If you actually take a close look at the way the Assembly Dissects the Covenant's claims of turning the surface of a world into hot glass, you need look no further. The Assembly is taking the Covenant's classic claim on a literal standpoint, as if the Covenant actually have the ability to turn a planet to glass, which they never did. They never once deny their ability to turn the surface of a world to molten slag, but only ever their ability to literally glass it.
Semantics?
It is the same thing. In the presence of extremely high temperatures, like those of a plasma, the silica in top soil is converted to this, which can resemble dark stained glass. Reducing the entire surface to molten slag by bombarding it with high energy plasma would result in that mineral forming. "Glassing" and reducing the entire surface to molten slag are the same thing here. I also find it surprising that you missed out the part near the start of Data Pad 10 where the AI equate the two...
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
b) This is further evidenced by the way the Assembly talks about regional glassing. They say of "glassing": Understandably this action takes considerably less time when applied to open desert. When sand gets superheated, it turns to glass, just like how the Covenant's always exaggerated claim spkoke of entire worlds. They say nothing of burning it to a cinder.
What is the logical connection between this and the previous paragraph? I don't see it. That quote was part of their evaluation of how long it would take on average to slag a planet. They said just after that (Or before it) that it would also take considerably longer to get through deep oceans. If you have suddenly changed your stance to "They burn the planet" rather than "They glass the planet" (Which also includes reducing the crust to a molten state) then I don't wee what you are -blam!-ing about.
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
2) Lack of proper evidence
a) At the time this report was written by the AIs, nobody had ever seen a live glassing take place.
Can you prove this please? It has been possible for spy satellites and even weather satellites to witness "glassing", so I see no reason why such a method could not have been used to observe the glassing of Harvest in 2525 or the glassing of Biko in 2526. (Which occurs before the Data Pad AI make Data Pad 10's content I will add) So it is obvious that the Data Pad AI had opportunity to observe a live glassing. (There is also the Ambiguous fates of the colonies of the Alpha Aurigae system as well)
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Now of course, The Assembly's basis is the Covenant's weaponry used in space battles. But by 2526, nobody knew of the existence of the Energy Projector; it had never been used in combat and remained that way until an Assault Carrier laid waste to several UNSC ships with one in the 2552 Battle of Reach (Confirmed by Captain Keyes' reaction "a new weapon?"). So where would the Assembly have gotten its data from? The Covenant's only weapons used at that point (to the knowledge of any living human) were plasma torpedoes and pulse lasers, neither of which are used in a glassing process.
Wrong as per usual. Plasma torpedoes were used to glass sections of Reach. In First Strike where Fred observes the 100 metre wide plasma torpedo speed overhead and blitz the horizon. Over Jericho VII, it was plasma fired from the ships lateral lines that glassed that planet. Lateral lines is where the plasma torpedo cannons are, and it is also from these lateral lines that plasma weaponry used in ship to ship combat comes from.
The AI also say Hard Facts. It is obvious that Bungie wishes to convey the idea that there is very little doubt about this with such a phrase.
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
3) Contradictory evidence
a) The canon rules state that later material overrides the old material. Data pad 10 is found on Winter Contingency. Later levels, such as The Long Night of Solace, depict an entire Reach continent already burning to the bedrock as massive mushroom clouds arch into the sky and fire sweeps the land, and the glassing hadn't even started yet.
Evidence or get out. All we see are spots of light coming from the surface. There is no way that you can make such inferences from that. I already linked you an image of Reach post glassing in another thread and it looks like you selectively dismissed it. The image does not show a planet that looks like it had its surface reduced to molten slag.
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Plus, the massive plasma torpedo detonations on the surface, calculated at several megatons, already cooked miles of surface area in an instant, significantly more powerful then the 1 acre per 15 seconds assumption made in the datapads.
Do you have any evidence for any of this? Cooked the entire area in an instant? Any images for this, or videos showing us the area being cooked in "an instant"?
Can I see your calculations on how you arrived at the conclusion that the blast was "several megatons"?
I tell you what. Do you know what happens when charged particles hit the atmosphere? Aurorua. See all the colours around the explosion?
Finally, I believe you just stumbled into the Data Pad AI's assessment of "Inability to grasp even simple phenomena when applied on a planetary scale" and "Absence of a solid methodological foundation". Your entire position is essentially "OMG big explosions!!!! Must mean glassed!!"
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
b) The opening cutscene of Reach shows ash-blanketed landscapes, smoke-choked atmosphere, and burned plains as far as the eye can see. A once pristine, snow capped mountain now stands as a charred, rocky testament to the Covenant's power.
Still has an atmosphere. Still has oceans. The surface is still dirt, not mineroid. In fact it fits with Fred's description of mass forest fires when he is flying over Reach in a Banshee at the start of First Strike.
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
c) The multiplayer map Condemned depicts a significantly different scenario. When the UNSC's last remaining forces were still fighting in a hopeless attempt at revenge, half the planet is already glowing in a magmatic blaze of hellish nightmare. You can clearly see the atmosphere itself burning off as this helpless world succumbs to the power of the Covenant. This depiction is entirely canon, as it holds no sway over the map itself; even Factpile admits to this depiction being valid. It is 343i's Fall of Reach, in other words, the truth.
No it is not. It is Certain Affinity's, and as such is artistic license. I guess you must also accept that Halsey is a teenager as depicted by Halo Legends then, or is that yet again another ROBERTO double standard?
Edit: And Factpile? What the -blam!- have they got to do with anything? Are they in any sort of position to dictate what is and what is not canon?
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
d) re-released, definitive editions of the original novel trilogy, Evolutions vo. I and II, and re-releases of the Return motion comic. None of the above "fixed" any of the "inconsistancies" that would be had 343i found the Assembly's hypothesis to be true, and are considered the overall newest canon.
You have already been shown the ret-con information from First Strike twice now. I will not type it out a THIRD TIME. The re-releases support this ret-con. Evolutions I and II are EXACTLY the same as the original with the exception of two completely irrelevant stories being added and some new cover art. As such the information in The Return, which should be held as a more canonically accurate depiction than One's motion comics, (As it is the source material, developed directly by 343) STILL supports the retcon. It was the source that essentially founded the bedrock of this whole ret-con.
This is the third time that your utterly crap arguments have been dismantled as false, and it will be the last. You come off as nothing but intellectually dishonest, misconstruing facts in the face of bare evidence. And yes, I know that the only reason you don't like the ret-con in the Covenant's glassing ability is because you can no longer use it in silly versus threads.
[Edited on 08.02.2011 6:47 AM PDT]