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Posted by: hotshot revan II
first of all I NEED to state that halo: reach (the game) and the new trilogy shouldn't be used as an example, the storyline has become too bastardised, there are many threads proving this...
Not it's nothing more then the opinion of Halo haters,common internet retardness and douchbags.
We haven't even played Halo 4 yet,so why jump into conclusions?
The storyline became better then ever with the Forerunner era being fleshed out and with even more mysteries entering the universe.
Besides all Halo media is canon so all can be used unless you want to argue with Frankie on this...
I did some research as you recommended, and found that the core of a reaper ship is made of 'element zero' in mass effect terms this means that a reaper ship is capable of increasing and decreasing it's weight at will, and able to deflect any mass in the vicinity of the ship, this means that plasma torpedos can be dissipated before getting anywhere near the shields.
Wiki page doesn't confirms you claims.
It's up to you now to show a video of a Reaper doing this
..or a quote.
it also means that anyone near the reaper for too long will naturally become indoctrinated (just throwing that out there)
Irrelevant, covies aren't retarded to chill and drink near a Reaper. The moment a Reaper is within range,it will be destroyed.
AND means that reaper ships basically have in-built mass relays.
in halo terms, it can make ultra-accurate, long/short distance slipspace jumps without losing power (as covie ships do).
Proof of the inbuilt relays.
Prove it that covies lose power at slipspace jumps,they ain't the old UNSC.
in short, this means that "outrunning" plasma torpedos/lasers is no matter, if you are so confident the reaper ship will be outgunned, it can simply jump to a safe location...maybe under the ship? the small size of the reaper ship (as you said 500m to 2km) means it could likely fit inside a CSO's hangar, I'm sure you can guess what it can do in there.
OMG did you really say that?
Prove it that they can make super accurate jumps into an object.
Prove it that they use tactics off jumping across the battlefield in FTL even if they never shown that ability.
You can't assume things like that if you have never seen them doing it.It's like saying that the covies will be using slipspace ruptures to destroy ships because the Forerunners did it too.
You can't outrun a plasma torpedo if it has a velocity of 130 000 km/s ,this number comes from the fall of reach book(can someone with this book please give the quote?)
ontop of that, I found out that reapers have a "magnetohydrodynamic" weapon which ejects a stream of molten metal at a fraction of the speed of light that can cut and burn through any alliance ship (including it's kinetic shield)
Which means the weapon is in low megaton range at minimum,because someone on Factpile once said Dreadnaughts can tank low megaton of firepower.
when you mentioned about the halo 2 cutscene (return to sender) you forgot to mention that UNSC ships don't have ANY shielding, and ANY plasma damage will burn through the layers of hull, your comparison was blind at best, as reaper ships have kinetic shielding, a reaper-alloy hull and can dissipate mass coming towards them.
Your point is valid BUT remember kinetic barriers can't block energy projectors,it can only block projectiles.So firing an energy projector at any ME ship is like firing an energy projector at an unshielded ship because kinetic barriers have no defense against energy based weapons.
no covenant weaponry would be able to cut a reaper in half, the hull strength (from what I've seen) is comparable to forerunner alloy, and the shields able to take ALOT of punishment (ME cutscenes)
I would like to see how powerful a Reaper hull is.Do you know what material it is from?It's also half organic right?
An energy projector pierced 5 UNSC ships at the same time.
BTW don't forget,energy based weapons ignore kinetic barriers.
whether you think a covenant ship can slice through one or not, the facts are there, 2 UNSC frigates can take on a CCS with well-timed MAC shots, they couldn't do that to a reaper.
(for the record alliance>UNSC clearly, there is no way you can argue that)
A UNSC frigate never succesfully defeated a covie battlecruiser on it's own and it is impossible unless the covie shipmaster is drunk.Here is why:
-An average covie ship could take 3 MAC shots,then there is also the fact that it takes some time for the MAC to recharge if it fires at full power.Then consider this scenario:
-Frigate fires at cruiser
-Cruiser survives and the MAC is recharging
-Cruiser destroys the frigate with a few plasma torpedos
I know a UNSC commander can retreat at the far side of the planet but i ingored it in this scenario ,you can get what i'm saying here right.
I disagree about "Alliance>>>>UNSC",but that's another debate.
as I've said numerous times, I'm not a mega ME fanboy or anything, so I don't know anything about precise shield strengths or anything, some of this info I'm using now has come from a friend who knows a lot about ME
my point I'm trying to put across is that, with bias opinions aside for both sides, sovereign was ONLY taken out because his long range weaponry was down, he was stunned, he was trying to unlock the citadel and because you can't end a game on mass extinction
Then your friend should join this debate because i hope he has some sources from ME codex,if you rely on his info then it's easy to give us some wrong info and it wouldn't be your fault.
in order:
reach broke the rules at EVERY corner, there are PLENTY of forums on Bnet alone that prove this.
the halo 4 trailer, the Chief wakes up (without the thawing stage) with fresh armour (i'll admit just for graphics) uses his JETPACK (WTF) and fires a ROCKET PISTOL, that's pretty damn bastardised to me.
when you said about "all halo media is canon" there are many forum threads that prove you wrong again, for example they completely dismissed legends (which also broke the rules on every corner)
the wiki page, I saved you some time and found the exact paragraph that supports alot of my claims http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reaper
look under the "technology" section
I would also advise you to read through the effects of element zero and the mass relays
which leads me perfectly onto the next point you raised:
the element zero core functions the same as a mass relay, thus can utilise the same effects, I think this was also mentioned under "technology"
"Prove it that covies lose power at slipspace jumps,they ain't the old UNSC."
I think you'll find just about every source says that they do lose power, I'm in a rush to do this at the moment so don't have a source handy, when I get back I'll find a source and a quote for you, my first guess would be to look in "the fall of reach"
when you said about proving reapers can essentially make slipspace jumps, I direct you back to how the core of a reaper functions like a mass relay, which in simple terms, makes things go really really fast.
when you said about 'have they ever done it?' then of course not, they've never needed to, but they are intelligent enough to be able to (based off FACT, not assumptions, they are the pinnacle of artificial intelligence)
next you said about how the reapers cannons fire at a low megaton range, you forget that it's energy is at a low megaton range, it fires molten metal to accompany it (much like a glassing beam) which I am certain will impact and overload covenant shielding.
when you said about the kinetic shields blocking heat, you are right, but again you forget it doesn't ONLY fire heat, it fires molten metal (reapers, glassing beam) in some cases, superheated gas (plasma weaponry) in other cases, though the heat will pass through the shield, the mass (which carries the heat) will dissipate before it gets to the reaper/ship
on your next point, I think you'll find part of the core of a reaper is made from organic material, superheated to a maliable paste, the carbon in organic fibres will be heated to a point where it is not fleshy, much like how coal or diamond is formed.
as for your next point, you misread, I said 2 frigates, not 1.
there are many published ship to ship combat guides for the UNSC, some of which done by J keyes, the rough way this works is:
UNSC1: fires MAC
UNSC2: fires MAC
cov1: shield depleted
UNSC3: fires MAC
cov1 destroyed.
of course that is the rough idea, it is inevitable at least one ship will be destroyed, if the shipmaster of the covenant ship is crafty enough, they can eliminate both UNSC ships and save their own ship.
on your final point, I have since asked my friend for some advice on this, they know ME like the back of their hand, I've run through everything I've said to them, and I'm going to post this thread to them so they can assess it