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  • Subject: The Reapers>The Covenant.
Subject: The Reapers>The Covenant.
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You are completely misinformed, I'll tell you.

1) The Halo 4's trailer ONLY purpose was to demonstrate new features in the game and announce the title itself. NONE of it was actually canon, including the presence of the Rocket pistol on the Dawn.

2) Cortana was misinformed, that little bit she said was actually deliberate; all she saw were Covenant and UNSC races working together at the end of Halo 3, she didn't know any of the details. If she had instead said the Elites broke off in the schism to work with us, as far as her knowledge goes, that'd breach canon.

3) It was not one of a kind. Spirit of Fire was a retrofitted colony ship from a line called Pheonix class. She WAS the only Pheonix class armed for war, but not the only Pheonix class. That scene is actually quite accurate.

As for the Reaper's "resilliance"

I'll just leave this here....


(hint: a Reaper almost get obliterated by an explosive, one not even that powerful).

And god damn it who revived this thread???


firstly, no matter what way you put it, a rocket pistol is just ridiculous...
I understand most of it was showing off their new graphics, but SERIOUSLY? a rocket pistol?!?

secondly, legends was pretty terrible with the storyline regardless of cortana being rampant or not.

thridly, yeah, I've been searching through pheonix-class info and found they were used as colonising craft, I'm gonna check the halo wars game info to double-check it though, could be another cover-up...

fourthly, that reaper took ALOT of damage, when it was in the base, still being built or whatever, an embryonic reaper, probably didn't even have shields yet (no glow or visuals)
it took a strike from the normandy and an orbital strike (in halo terms, something like a MAC barrage) and still got up and chased Sheperd.
covenant corvette would've been taken down by the first bomb
a CCS would've at least had it's shields taken down by the orbital strike

  • 09.11.2011 7:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: Vercetti24

Posted by: jakemaidment


Going by 'realism' Forerunners lose, horribly.[/quote]
So we're going by realism? Ok then, the Reapers have no tech left becuase all tech in ME depends on a magical element which is not realstic so there you go, their guns don't work, their engines don't work, their shields don't work....

LOL, actually, the guns in ME use the exact same mechanics as a MAC or gauss.
the guns from ME are essentially small MAC cannons, also, in Halo: contact harvest, Johnson uses a gauss sniper rifle, which uses the exact same mechanics as the sniper in ME (only I think the sniper in ME fires incendiary rounds or something)

that magic that makes the guns work is magnets

No they don't, see MAC guns are just massive coilguns, exactly the same as IRL, just much bigger and powerful. The weaponry in ME does use similar tech, however they use mass effect fields to make their projectlies lighter and achieve velocities high enough for the tiny projectiles to be effective and to absorb for the recoil that otherwise would be massive.
The magic that makes the guns work is mass effect fields.

And also, types of rounds can be adjusted in ME, all weapons can fire incedary rounds.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
And god damn it who revived this thread???

Some guy named "superiorarsenal" appreantly
*sigh* Just when I thought we were done with ME fantards until ME3's release which will start this all over again.

coilguns use magnets! magnetic acceleration!
the mass effect field thing is just the sci fi bonus they added, all it is, in it's core, is just a MAC

  • 09.11.2011 7:33 AM PDT


Posted by: jakemaidment
firstly, no matter what way you put it, a rocket pistol is just ridiculous...
I understand most of it was showing off their new graphics, but SERIOUSLY? a rocket pistol?!?

secondly, legends was pretty terrible with the storyline regardless of cortana being rampant or not.

thridly, yeah, I've been searching through pheonix-class info and found they were used as colonising craft, I'm gonna check the halo wars game info to double-check it though, could be another cover-up...

fourthly, that reaper took ALOT of damage, when it was in the base, still being built or whatever, an embryonic reaper, probably didn't even have shields yet (no glow or visuals)
it took a strike from the normandy and an orbital strike (in halo terms, something like a MAC barrage) and still got up and chased Sheperd.
covenant corvette would've been taken down by the first bomb
a CCS would've at least had it's shields taken down by the orbital strike

You obviously nver heard of gyrojet weapons.

not arguing against that.

Why do people think that there was only one Pheonix-class colony ship.

Ok then, explain how did Sovereign got gutted by a single missile from the Normandy? There was nothing else that hit him on that place when his shields were shut down. I didn't saw any eveidence of their resilience and against the Covenant their kinetic barriers don't matter at all.

  • 09.11.2011 7:33 AM PDT


Posted by: jakemaidment


You are completely misinformed, I'll tell you.

1) The Halo 4's trailer ONLY purpose was to demonstrate new features in the game and announce the title itself. NONE of it was actually canon, including the presence of the Rocket pistol on the Dawn.

2) Cortana was misinformed, that little bit she said was actually deliberate; all she saw were Covenant and UNSC races working together at the end of Halo 3, she didn't know any of the details. If she had instead said the Elites broke off in the schism to work with us, as far as her knowledge goes, that'd breach canon.

3) It was not one of a kind. Spirit of Fire was a retrofitted colony ship from a line called Pheonix class. She WAS the only Pheonix class armed for war, but not the only Pheonix class. That scene is actually quite accurate.

As for the Reaper's "resilliance"

I'll just leave this here....


(hint: a Reaper almost get obliterated by an explosive, one not even that powerful).

And god damn it who revived this thread???


firstly, no matter what way you put it, a rocket pistol is just ridiculous...
I understand most of it was showing off their new graphics, but SERIOUSLY? a rocket pistol?!?

secondly, legends was pretty terrible with the storyline regardless of cortana being rampant or not.

thridly, yeah, I've been searching through pheonix-class info and found they were used as colonising craft, I'm gonna check the halo wars game info to double-check it though, could be another cover-up...

fourthly, that reaper took ALOT of damage, when it was in the base, still being built or whatever, an embryonic reaper, probably didn't even have shields yet (no glow or visuals)
it took a strike from the normandy and an orbital strike (in halo terms, something like a MAC barrage) and still got up and chased Sheperd.
covenant corvette would've been taken down by the first bomb
a CCS would've at least had it's shields taken down by the orbital strike


As corvettes don't have shields I'm inclined to agree there, but a CCS class cruiser's shields are reiliant enough to take several tens of kilotons (a 64 kiloton MAC round for example, and even then at least two before the shield collapses). Neither shot fired on the Reaper was of even a kilotonnage in force, for if it had been the resultant shock wave would have vaporize Shepard. Plus the fact both were using explosive ordinance rather then mass driven technology, which makes gauging the power easier.

So say, for example, if a UNSC Frigate were to fire on the same Reaper at a full powered MAC blast, that Reaper would have been screwed, no question. If it becomes incampacitated by a sub-kiloton strike, I'm pretty sure getting hit with the equivalent of four and a quarter Hiroshima bombs would annihilate the poor thing.

And do you want to know how comparitively powerful a Covenant plasma torpedo is? A standard one? It was calculated to be anywhere between 10 to 30 megatons, judging from the size of a plasma strike in Long Night of Solace relative to a nearby hurricane.

A Dreadnought--most powerful ship the good guys have--in Mass Effect fires at 32 kilotons (atrociously powerful by ME standards). 30 megatons is expanded out to 30,000 kilotons in the Covenant's arsenal.

So to those defending the Reapers: how is it the allies of Mass Effect can defeat the Reapers with such inferior weaponry, yet the Covenant can't? And I've even heard the same for the Forerunners, that'd they lose to the Reapers. Thats like trying to tell me a fire ant can defeat an M1 Abrams main battle tank.

  • 09.11.2011 7:36 AM PDT


Posted by: jakemaidment

Posted by: Vercetti24

Posted by: jakemaidment


Going by 'realism' Forerunners lose, horribly.[/quote]
So we're going by realism? Ok then, the Reapers have no tech left becuase all tech in ME depends on a magical element which is not realstic so there you go, their guns don't work, their engines don't work, their shields don't work....

LOL, actually, the guns in ME use the exact same mechanics as a MAC or gauss.
the guns from ME are essentially small MAC cannons, also, in Halo: contact harvest, Johnson uses a gauss sniper rifle, which uses the exact same mechanics as the sniper in ME (only I think the sniper in ME fires incendiary rounds or something)

that magic that makes the guns work is magnets

No they don't, see MAC guns are just massive coilguns, exactly the same as IRL, just much bigger and powerful. The weaponry in ME does use similar tech, however they use mass effect fields to make their projectlies lighter and achieve velocities high enough for the tiny projectiles to be effective and to absorb for the recoil that otherwise would be massive.
The magic that makes the guns work is mass effect fields.

And also, types of rounds can be adjusted in ME, all weapons can fire incedary rounds.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
And god damn it who revived this thread???

Some guy named "superiorarsenal" appreantly
*sigh* Just when I thought we were done with ME fantards until ME3's release which will start this all over again.

coilguns use magnets! magnetic acceleration!
the mass effect field thing is just the sci fi bonus they added, all it is, in it's core, is just a MAC


Except that magnets are not used in ME weapons. You know what is? Magic.

  • 09.11.2011 7:37 AM PDT

Posted by: jakemaidment
coilguns use magnets! magnetic acceleration!
the mass effect field thing is just the sci fi bonus they added, all it is, in it's core, is just a MAC

Did I say it anywahere that they weren't? But the fact still is, they wouldn't function like this without use of mass effetc fields. They would need bigger rounds, their guns would be less powerful and they would have massive recoil also they would probably use much more power to fire. Without mass effect fields their weapons are useless. Just like most of tech in ME.
And mass effects fields are a fantasy bonus Bioware used to get magic in a Sci-Fi game so caster classes would be possible.

  • 09.11.2011 7:39 AM PDT

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Except that magnets are not used in ME weapons. You know what is? Magic.

They are, however they wouldn't function without magic. Just like the rest of their tech...

[Edited on 09.11.2011 7:42 AM PDT]

  • 09.11.2011 7:41 AM PDT
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Ok then, explain how did Sovereign got gutted by a single missile from the Normandy? There was nothing else that hit him on that place when his shields were shut down. I didn't saw any eveidence of their resilience and against the Covenant their kinetic barriers don't matter at all.

wait what? sovereign was under constant fire from the entire alliance homefleet, while he was stunned, his long-range weapons were down and while he was trying to unlock the citadel.
if by "a single missile" you mean a barrage from every remaining ship in the homefleet then you'd be right

  • 09.11.2011 7:42 AM PDT


Posted by: jakemaidment
wait what? sovereign was under constant fire from the entire alliance homefleet, while he was stunned, his long-range weapons were down and while he was trying to unlock the citadel.
if by "a single missile" you mean a barrage from every remaining ship in the homefleet then you'd be right

It appears we have played different games... All I've seen was Sovereign's shields getting poundeed by the barrage from the SA fleet which didn't had any effect on the ship slef, cuz you know, that's what shields are for. And once Shepard killed his avatar his shileds turned off, Joker did some manouvers and fired a single missile that gutted Sovereign and made him explode. And if a missile from the weakest class of ME's already pathetic ships can do that then so can the kinetic barrier bypassing Covie weapons that put out the same firepower with a single shot as Citadel fleet does in hours (or days)

[Edited on 09.11.2011 7:51 AM PDT]

  • 09.11.2011 7:47 AM PDT


Posted by: jakemaidment


Ok then, explain how did Sovereign got gutted by a single missile from the Normandy? There was nothing else that hit him on that place when his shields were shut down. I didn't saw any eveidence of their resilience and against the Covenant their kinetic barriers don't matter at all.

wait what? sovereign was under constant fire from the entire alliance homefleet, while he was stunned, his long-range weapons were down and while he was trying to unlock the citadel.
if by "a single missile" you mean a barrage from every remaining ship in the homefleet then you'd be right


Nope, the Normandy swoops down and launches a sub-kiloton missile that goes clean through Sovereign and reemerges out the other end in ME1. Take a look, at 6:00 in, nobody else is firing on Sovereign. He is stunned, but this sub-kilo-missile finishes him off.

Arer you positive you know enough about either universe to actually make any judgements in this fight?


[Edited on 09.11.2011 7:50 AM PDT]

  • 09.11.2011 7:49 AM PDT

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Arer you positive you know enough about either universe to actually make any judgements in this fight?

Did something silly like that stop people before?

  • 09.11.2011 8:00 AM PDT


Posted by: Vercetti24
Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Arer you positive you know enough about either universe to actually make any judgements in this fight?

Did something silly like that stop people before?


Of course not, but I still like to point it out in case there is the slightest inkling people will see reason and realize this is a stomp to the "Nth" degree.

Unfortunately, I've yet to be pleased ):

  • 09.11.2011 8:03 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact



-The Reapers are the best of the best in the ME universe,but if they would compare to a Halo AI?Let's see:

Let's start first with a UNSC AI like Cortana.

When Chief and a squad of Marines boarded the Cruiser on installation 04, Cortana was hacking into a door protected by a 128,000 bit modulating key.

Here are some caluations from someone called Nattuo on spacebattles.com:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=179618&pa ge=6


That's what Cortana managed to do.She also said to the Gravemind in "Human weakness" short story that she can run a billion+ operations at the same time by the time she spoke her own name.

She was also able to hack into many other Covenant security systems with ease like the Covenant battlenet,the unyielding hierophant security system,high charity,...

She even consumed all Forerunner info from the control center,although it weakened her life span.

While all of this is very impressive,it's still nothing compared to a Forerunner AI.

Ebullient Prism,a Forerunner monitor was kicking the -blam!- out of Iona a smart AI in a cyber battle.

343 GS would have been able to purge Cortana with ease if she didn't used the Index as a shield or hostage(Spark wouldn't want to risk to destroy the index)


Monitor>>>>>>>>Smart AI

But then we have the Metarch level ancilla's who consider Monitors as toys compared to themselfs.

Halo Cryptum pg 105

But more surprising still were the numerous embodied and heavily armored ancillas. I had heard of Warrior-Servants utilizing such during battle and for other special tasks, but we encountered hundreds spaced throughout the ship, floating in serene quiescence, in apparent low-power mode, their blue, red, or green sensors dimly aglow.

They will come alive in an emergency. They can replace Forerunner commanders, if necessary. They are a vital portion of Council metarchy-the overall network of ancillas that support the Council.
But compared to a metarch-level ancilla, these are mere toys.


Throwing a Contender Class AI in the mix would be overkill.Mendicant Bias was able to hack into the Capital defense systems which is inhabited by trillions of ancillas including several Metarch class.Then Bias was also able to control 5 Halo rings at the same time. He did all of this from his physicil location on the stolen ring.

Later during the last battle of war,Mendicant was able to control and coordinate 5 million of starships.

Contender>>Metarch>>>Ancilla>>>Monito r>>>>Smart AI>>>>Reaper

I'm sure i missed alot of other feats from the books.

Also another funfact:

A warrior servant could control a million of drones(but it's most likely that the ancilla within the warrior helps with this)

And another amazing thing is that Mendicant Bias pales compared to the Gravemind and The Timeless One.

  • 09.11.2011 8:14 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Vercetti24
Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Arer you positive you know enough about either universe to actually make any judgements in this fight?

Did something silly like that stop people before?


Of course not, but I still like to point it out in case there is the slightest inkling people will see reason and realize this is a stomp to the "Nth" degree.

Unfortunately, I've yet to be pleased ):

I've learned that trying to make ME's delusional fanboys see reason in VS battles is futile, they will keep believing in stuff like the Systems Alliance being able to defeat the Imperium of Man, Reapers stomping the Forerunners and ME being the most realistic Sci-Fi EVAR even if you would you shove a gun in their face.

  • 09.11.2011 8:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: hotshot revan II


-The Reapers are the best of the best in the ME universe,but if they would compare to a Halo AI?Let's see:

Let's start first with a UNSC AI like Cortana.

When Chief and a squad of Marines boarded the Cruiser on installation 04, Cortana was hacking into a door protected by a 128,000 bit modulating key.

Here are some caluations from someone called Nattuo on spacebattles.com:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=179618&pa ge=6


That's what Cortana managed to do.She also said to the Gravemind in "Human weakness" short story that she can run a billion+ operations at the same time by the time she spoke her own name.

She was also able to hack into many other Covenant security systems with ease like the Covenant battlenet,the unyielding hierophant security system,high charity,...

She even consumed all Forerunner info from the control center,although it weakened her life span.

While all of this is very impressive,it's still nothing compared to a Forerunner AI.

Ebullient Prism,a Forerunner monitor was kicking the -blam!- out of Iona a smart AI in a cyber battle.

343 GS would have been able to purge Cortana with ease if she didn't used the Index as a shield or hostage(Spark wouldn't want to risk to destroy the index)


Monitor>>>>>>>>Smart AI

But then we have the Metarch level ancilla's who consider Monitors as toys compared to themselfs.

Halo Cryptum pg 105

But more surprising still were the numerous embodied and heavily armored ancillas. I had heard of Warrior-Servants utilizing such during battle and for other special tasks, but we encountered hundreds spaced throughout the ship, floating in serene quiescence, in apparent low-power mode, their blue, red, or green sensors dimly aglow.

They will come alive in an emergency. They can replace Forerunner commanders, if necessary. They are a vital portion of Council metarchy-the overall network of ancillas that support the Council.
But compared to a metarch-level ancilla, these are mere toys.


Throwing a Contender Class AI in the mix would be overkill.Mendicant Bias was able to hack into the Capital defense systems which is inhabited by trillions of ancillas including several Metarch class.Then Bias was also able to control 5 Halo rings at the same time. He did all of this from his physicil location on the stolen ring.

Later during the last battle of war,Mendicant was able to control and coordinate 5 million of starships.

Contender>>Metarch>>>Ancilla>>>Monito r>>>>Smart AI>>>>Reaper

I'm sure i missed alot of other feats from the books.

Also another funfact:

A warrior servant could control a million of drones(but it's most likely that the ancilla within the warrior helps with this)

And another amazing thing is that Mendicant Bias pales compared to the Gravemind and The Timeless One.

I found it funny how you gave NO info on a reaper AI and just chucked it to the bottom of the pile.

what you missed was that a reaper AI has lived for billions of years, FAR longer than ANY forerunner AI, they have shown no signs of weakness, ageing, rampancy or any other faults.
they have processed the entire information of every planet, system and inch of the galaxy a million times over, they have processed the information on countless civilisations.
this is FAR more information than cortana can comprehend and FAR more than an ancilla.
the reapers live in dark space when they aren't in this galaxy, for all we know they are doing the same thing on a few more galaxies, the citadel acted as a massive mass relay, it wouldn't be a blind guess to say that they have more of these, in dark space and other galaxies.
reaper AI's can store and comprehend many times more information than any UNSC AI and any monitor (monitors only having knowledge on a chosen installation)

  • 09.11.2011 8:52 AM PDT

I find it funny that you still don't give up despite obviously lacking actual knowledge about both universes.
First I would like you to show me proof that Reapers are billions of years old, the oldest recorded cycle is 37 million which does not really make them much older then the Forerunners, if I remember correctly Forerunners are infact older then 37 million, but I'm not sure.

All Reapers do is download all info about inhabitated planets, shut down all relays and then travel to each of the planets in the database and kill everything, they simply follow their rountine. An UNSC dumb AI could do that.

[Edited on 09.11.2011 10:18 AM PDT]

  • 09.11.2011 10:16 AM PDT


Posted by: Vercetti24

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Vercetti24
Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Arer you positive you know enough about either universe to actually make any judgements in this fight?

Did something silly like that stop people before?


Of course not, but I still like to point it out in case there is the slightest inkling people will see reason and realize this is a stomp to the "Nth" degree.

Unfortunately, I've yet to be pleased ):

I've learned that trying to make ME's delusional fanboys see reason in VS battles is futile, they will keep believing in stuff like the Systems Alliance being able to defeat the Imperium of Man, Reapers stomping the Forerunners and ME being the most realistic Sci-Fi EVAR even if you would you shove a gun in their face.


Wait....ME fans were saying that the Systems Alliance could defeat the Imperium of Man!? You're being serious?

That....is easily the most retarted thing I've ever had the misfortune of knowing. The Imperium would, with 1% of its forces, solo the entire Mass Effect universe 5 times over. Well, at least thank you for informing me of the level of idiocy some of these fans will go to. But I'm pretty sure in the process you traumatized my neural receptors and now I'm having trouble thinking straight, and jgcfhfjncnhdhjcxhgfmvm,..,..v,

  • 09.11.2011 10:27 AM PDT

I've never seen anything about ME vs 40k.

  • 09.11.2011 10:31 AM PDT


Posted by: jakemaidment

Posted by: hotshot revan II


-The Reapers are the best of the best in the ME universe,but if they would compare to a Halo AI?Let's see:

Let's start first with a UNSC AI like Cortana.

When Chief and a squad of Marines boarded the Cruiser on installation 04, Cortana was hacking into a door protected by a 128,000 bit modulating key.

Here are some caluations from someone called Nattuo on spacebattles.com:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=179618&pa ge=6


That's what Cortana managed to do.She also said to the Gravemind in "Human weakness" short story that she can run a billion+ operations at the same time by the time she spoke her own name.

She was also able to hack into many other Covenant security systems with ease like the Covenant battlenet,the unyielding hierophant security system,high charity,...

She even consumed all Forerunner info from the control center,although it weakened her life span.

While all of this is very impressive,it's still nothing compared to a Forerunner AI.

Ebullient Prism,a Forerunner monitor was kicking the -blam!- out of Iona a smart AI in a cyber battle.

343 GS would have been able to purge Cortana with ease if she didn't used the Index as a shield or hostage(Spark wouldn't want to risk to destroy the index)


Monitor>>>>>>>>Smart AI

But then we have the Metarch level ancilla's who consider Monitors as toys compared to themselfs.

Halo Cryptum pg 105

But more surprising still were the numerous embodied and heavily armored ancillas. I had heard of Warrior-Servants utilizing such during battle and for other special tasks, but we encountered hundreds spaced throughout the ship, floating in serene quiescence, in apparent low-power mode, their blue, red, or green sensors dimly aglow.

They will come alive in an emergency. They can replace Forerunner commanders, if necessary. They are a vital portion of Council metarchy-the overall network of ancillas that support the Council.
But compared to a metarch-level ancilla, these are mere toys.


Throwing a Contender Class AI in the mix would be overkill.Mendicant Bias was able to hack into the Capital defense systems which is inhabited by trillions of ancillas including several Metarch class.Then Bias was also able to control 5 Halo rings at the same time. He did all of this from his physicil location on the stolen ring.

Later during the last battle of war,Mendicant was able to control and coordinate 5 million of starships.

Contender>>Metarch>>>Ancilla>>>Monito r>>>>Smart AI>>>>Reaper

I'm sure i missed alot of other feats from the books.

Also another funfact:

A warrior servant could control a million of drones(but it's most likely that the ancilla within the warrior helps with this)

And another amazing thing is that Mendicant Bias pales compared to the Gravemind and The Timeless One.


of every planet, system and inch of the galaxy a million times over, they have processed the information on countless civilisations.
this is FAR more information than cortana can comprehend and FAR more than an ancilla.


So she can probably process about the amount of information represented by the total combination count in only a couple of seconds. To put this amount of information in persepective if it took Cortana a trillion years to crack the combination, and she got lucky and did it after only accounting for a millionth of the potential combinations(and it did not modulate at any point) she'd be able to simulate the position, vector and other properties of every atom in our universe(assuming there are 10^90 atoms, and each required a magabit a second to simulate) 2.2*10^38,410 times. To put that in more recognisable numbers It's simulating so many trillions of universes, that even stacking the orders of magnitude end on end(a trillion trillion being 10^24) you'd need to repeat the word trillion about 3,200 times to account for all the orders of magnitude

Did you miss this part or something? Thats A LOT of calculating going on right there.

And in your fanboy rant, hypocrisy got the best of you and you have yet to do the same thing for the Reapers what you accuse us of not doing. The burden of information is on you, and only you, as you are the Reaper defender here. So until you can prove that Reapers somehow have more processing power then Medicant Bias (who could calculate, citing the above, every maneuver, strategy, defensive/offensive deployment and tactic possible and then place plans in order to counter every one of them, effectively rendering resistance impossible) I call bull -blam!- on everything you say about them. All you've said so far is "Reapers>Covenant" whilst apparently ignoring the comparatively overpowered nature of the Covenant's weapons relative to those used against Reapers in Mass Effect.

As I told you above, if the shot that incampacitated the Reaper in Mass Effect 3 was a plasma torpedo fired from a CCS class cruiser, the 10-30 megaton blast would have shattered the Reaper like glass, fire stormed the Normandy on account of proximity, vaporized Shepard and his crew and effectively obliterated the entire base and surrounding area. THAT is a 30 megaton blast

If the explosive was even a kiloton, the above would have happened, just with less vaporization and more firestorms. Shepard and co. would still be free floating molecules however. Therefore, a Frigate MAC (32 kilotons more then the most powerful weapon the Citidel fleet can muster) could gut a Reaper. Plasma and energy weaponry utilized by the Covenant would pretty much bypass kinetic shielding and attack only the armor.

And before you pull the age old ME defender argument of "what if they use something other then kinetic barriers?" prove it.

  • 09.11.2011 10:43 AM PDT

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Wait....ME fans were saying that the Systems Alliance could defeat the Imperium of Man!? You're being serious?

That....is easily the most retarted thing I've ever had the misfortune of knowing. The Imperium would, with 1% of its forces, solo the entire Mass Effect universe 5 times over. Well, at least thank you for informing me of the level of idiocy some of these fans will go to. But I'm pretty sure in the process you traumatized my neural receptors and now I'm having trouble thinking straight, and jgcfhfjncnhdhjcxhgfmvm,..,..v,

I'm being 100% serious, I wouldn't make stuff like that up because it's just too ridiculous for words and to be honest, I wish I would've forgotten this already.

Well 1% of Imperiums forces would still massively outnumber all forces of ME combined anyway XD A single battleship would be enough, they wouldn't even have to fire, just use their massive plow on the front and ram everything....
Well it's still better then an entire "scientific" analysis of Tali's breast milk, you wish I wasn't being serious about the last part and so do I.

  • 09.11.2011 10:49 AM PDT
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So she can probably process about the amount of information represented by the total combination count in only a couple of seconds. To put this amount of information in persepective if it took Cortana a trillion years to crack the combination, and she got lucky and did it after only accounting for a millionth of the potential combinations(and it did not modulate at any point) she'd be able to simulate the position, vector and other properties of every atom in our universe(assuming there are 10^90 atoms, and each required a magabit a second to simulate) 2.2*10^38,410 times. To put that in more recognisable numbers It's simulating so many trillions of universes, that even stacking the orders of magnitude end on end(a trillion trillion being 10^24) you'd need to repeat the word trillion about 3,200 times to account for all the orders of magnitude

Did you miss this part or something? Thats A LOT of calculating going on right there.

And in your fanboy rant, hypocrisy got the best of you and you have yet to do the same thing for the Reapers what you accuse us of not doing. The burden of information is on you, and only you, as you are the Reaper defender here. So until you can prove that Reapers somehow have more processing power then Medicant Bias (who could calculate, citing the above, every maneuver, strategy, defensive/offensive deployment and tactic possible and then place plans in order to counter every one of them, effectively rendering resistance impossible) I call bull -blam!- on everything you say about them. All you've said so far is "Reapers>Covenant" whilst apparently ignoring the comparatively overpowered nature of the Covenant's weapons relative to those used against Reapers in Mass Effect.

As I told you above, if the shot that incampacitated the Reaper in Mass Effect 3 was a plasma torpedo fired from a CCS class cruiser, the 10-30 megaton blast would have shattered the Reaper like glass, fire stormed the Normandy on account of proximity, vaporized Shepard and his crew and effectively obliterated the entire base and surrounding area. THAT is a 30 megaton blast

If the explosive was even a kiloton, the above would have happened, just with less vaporization and more firestorms. Shepard and co. would still be free floating molecules however. Therefore, a Frigate MAC (32 kilotons more then the most powerful weapon the Citidel fleet can muster) could gut a Reaper. Plasma and energy weaponry utilized by the Covenant would pretty much bypass kinetic shielding and attack only the armor.

And before you pull the age old ME defender argument of "what if they use something other then kinetic barriers?" prove it.

you've misread what I've said, I never once said a reaper AI can rival anything on the level of a contender or metarch class forerunner AI, I know that an AI on the level of mendicant bias is unstoppable, it has the ability to distinguish contradicting commands.
what I DID say was that a reaper AI can rival any UNSC or covenant AI, including cortana.
I'm not going to bother re-writing why, I've already done it twice, just re-read.

as for calling me a fanboy, if anything I'm a halo fanboy, but I'm not blinded by ignorance, I know when something is utterly unstoppable, just as I know the Chief isn't invincible to EVERYTHING.

I did some more research on the final scene of ME1.
what I found was that sovereign was supposed to be able to communicate with the keepers remotely to unlock the citadel, but due to the efforts of the Protheans 50,000 years before they were able to devise a way of distorting the message slightly, enough for the keepers to not unlock the citadel properly.
it is because of this sovereign had to take control of Saren to unlock it manually, when sovereign saw Saren wouldn't be able to do it, he charged through the homefleet to try and unlock the citadel as quickly as possible, during this sovereign managed to destroy a small portion of the homefleet, sovereigns long range weapons were disabled shortly after that and he was stunned when Saren was killed, for the entire time he was under constant fire from the homefleet, when he was stunned the entire homefleet focussed what they had on him eventually knocking out his shields.
after some more focussed fire he was rendered weak enough for the normandy's final blow.

coz you seem to be good at calculating stuff, why not calculate an estimate of how much firepower was used on sovereign in the final cutscene and base shield strengths around that, so far you keep only giving the power of the final blow and saying that is a reapers strength including shields.

on your final point about a MAC round gutting a reaper, I think you'll find the kinetic shield would render the shot utterly useless, IF it got past the mass effect field around the reaper

if that last line about "what if they use something other then kinetic barriers?" did you mean the reapers?
because they do use kinetic barriers, FAR superior ones to that the alliance use.

  • 09.11.2011 11:15 AM PDT

Posted by: jakemaidment
you've misread what I've said, I never once said a reaper AI can rival anything on the level of a contender or metarch class forerunner AI, I know that an AI on the level of mendicant bias is unstoppable, it has the ability to distinguish contradicting commands.
what I DID say was that a reaper AI can rival any UNSC or covenant AI, including cortana.
I'm not going to bother re-writing why, I've already done it twice, just re-read.

as for calling me a fanboy, if anything I'm a halo fanboy, but I'm not blinded by ignorance, I know when something is utterly unstoppable, just as I know the Chief isn't invincible to EVERYTHING.

I did some more research on the final scene of ME1.
what I found was that sovereign was supposed to be able to communicate with the keepers remotely to unlock the citadel, but due to the efforts of the Protheans 50,000 years before they were able to devise a way of distorting the message slightly, enough for the keepers to not unlock the citadel properly.
it is because of this sovereign had to take control of Saren to unlock it manually, when sovereign saw Saren wouldn't be able to do it, he charged through the homefleet to try and unlock the citadel as quickly as possible, during this sovereign managed to destroy a small portion of the homefleet, sovereigns long range weapons were disabled shortly after that and he was stunned when Saren was killed, for the entire time he was under constant fire from the homefleet, when he was stunned the entire homefleet focussed what they had on him eventually knocking out his shields.
after some more focussed fire he was rendered weak enough for the normandy's final blow.

coz you seem to be good at calculating stuff, why not calculate an estimate of how much firepower was used on sovereign in the final cutscene and base shield strengths around that, so far you keep only giving the power of the final blow and saying that is a reapers strength including shields.

on your final point about a MAC round gutting a reaper, I think you'll find the kinetic shield would render the shot utterly useless, IF it got past the mass effect field around the reaper

if that last line about "what if they use something other then kinetic barriers?" did you mean the reapers?
because they do use kinetic barriers, FAR superior ones to that the alliance use.

Hey roberto, you were right, he really doesn't know -blam!- about at least ME.

Funny how your "explenation" was just fanboy rant not supported by facts.

I lol'd at that part when he pretty much says WE are being blinded by ignorance, really amusing stuff.
And you claim to not be a fanboy yet you suffer from the same problem as ME fantards do, they think just because a race is unstoppable in one universe it means it's also unstoppable in others. There is nothing impressive at all in being unstoppable in ME, the Citadel ships are pathetic compared to other Sci-Fi.

The SA fleet would've fired around 1 Megaton of damage max at Sovereign's shields, ME ship weapons are really weak. And Sovereign's shileds didn't fail because of bombardment, it was because Shepard killed his avatar.

You do know that a UNSC Frigate MAC hits with twice the amount of firepower then a ME Dreadnought's main gun? Oh who am I kidding, of course you don't. If a Reaper had it's shileds down a MAC would gut him without any problems. An direct hit from an SMAC would destroy it, shields or not.
And since when did mass effect fields had anything to do with shielding?

I could ask now if you know about the reason why we are ignoring kinetic barrier strenght in this battle, but since I know the anwser already I'll tell you, ENERGY WEAPONS BYPASS KINETIC BARRIERS
However seeing as Reapers are not invincble to ME races I doubt the barrriers of Reapers would hold out against the Covenant for long anyway.

  • 09.11.2011 12:03 PM PDT
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Hey roberto, you were right, he really doesn't know -blam!- about at least ME.

Funny how your "explenation" was just fanboy rant not supported by facts.

I lol'd at that part when he pretty much says WE are being blinded by ignorance, really amusing stuff.
And you claim to not be a fanboy yet you suffer from the same problem as ME fantards do, they think just because a race is unstoppable in one universe it means it's also unstoppable in others. There is nothing impressive at all in being unstoppable in ME, the Citadel ships are pathetic compared to other Sci-Fi.

The SA fleet would've fired around 1 Megaton of damage max at Sovereign's shields, ME ship weapons are really weak. And Sovereign's shileds didn't fail because of bombardment, it was because Shepard killed his avatar.

You do know that a UNSC Frigate MAC hits with twice the amount of firepower then a ME Dreadnought's main gun? Oh who am I kidding, of course you don't. If a Reaper had it's shileds down a MAC would gut him without any problems. An direct hit from an SMAC would destroy it, shields or not.
And since when did mass effect fields had anything to do with shielding?

I could ask now if you know about the reason why we are ignoring kinetic barrier strenght in this battle, but since I know the anwser already I'll tell you, ENERGY WEAPONS BYPASS KINETIC BARRIERS
However seeing as Reapers are not invincble to ME races I doubt the barrriers of Reapers would hold out against the Covenant for long anyway.

can you reference ANY of what you've just said.

to start proving you wrong I'm going to, once again, describe the mechanics of a kinetic barrier.
THEY BLOCK MASS
MAC rounds would get nowhere near a reaper, the round would be dissipated by the mass effect field around the reaper, if it was fired fast enough to bypass the field it would be completely stopped by the kinetic shield.
as for energy weapons.
the heat is carried by mass, if the mass is stopped the heat physically cannot travel much further, just as it happens with a MAC round the mass will be dissipated before it hits the shield, if it does hit the shield, the mass will be completely blocked and the heat will only travel a short distance further, since the shielding isn't mere inches away from the reaper, the heat will have completely dispersed before actually touching the reapers hull.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat
educate yourself, come back when you can get some references

  • 09.11.2011 12:45 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
So she can probably process about the amount of information represented by the total combination count in only a couple of seconds. To put this amount of information in persepective if it took Cortana a trillion years to crack the combination, and she got lucky and did it after only accounting for a millionth of the potential combinations(and it did not modulate at any point) she'd be able to simulate the position, vector and other properties of every atom in our universe(assuming there are 10^90 atoms, and each required a magabit a second to simulate) 2.2*10^38,410 times. To put that in more recognisable numbers It's simulating so many trillions of universes, that even stacking the orders of magnitude end on end(a trillion trillion being 10^24) you'd need to repeat the word trillion about 3,200 times to account for all the orders of magnitude

Did you miss this part or something? Thats A LOT of calculating going on right there.

And in your fanboy rant, hypocrisy got the best of you and you have yet to do the same thing for the Reapers what you accuse us of not doing. The burden of information is on you, and only you, as you are the Reaper defender here. So until you can prove that Reapers somehow have more processing power then Medicant Bias (who could calculate, citing the above, every maneuver, strategy, defensive/offensive deployment and tactic possible and then place plans in order to counter every one of them, effectively rendering resistance impossible) I call bull -blam!- on everything you say about them. All you've said so far is "Reapers>Covenant" whilst apparently ignoring the comparatively overpowered nature of the Covenant's weapons relative to those used against Reapers in Mass Effect.

As I told you above, if the shot that incampacitated the Reaper in Mass Effect 3 was a plasma torpedo fired from a CCS class cruiser, the 10-30 megaton blast would have shattered the Reaper like glass, fire stormed the Normandy on account of proximity, vaporized Shepard and his crew and effectively obliterated the entire base and surrounding area. THAT is a 30 megaton blast

If the explosive was even a kiloton, the above would have happened, just with less vaporization and more firestorms. Shepard and co. would still be free floating molecules however. Therefore, a Frigate MAC (32 kilotons more then the most powerful weapon the Citidel fleet can muster) could gut a Reaper. Plasma and energy weaponry utilized by the Covenant would pretty much bypass kinetic shielding and attack only the armor.

And before you pull the age old ME defender argument of "what if they use something other then kinetic barriers?" prove it.


A: Source on the bull-blam!- claim that Cortana can calculate that information about every atom in the universe. It's a scientific impossibility for us to figure out the location of electrons in a single atom. How the heck can she do that for every one? Let alone the fact she's a human AI.

B: You LOVE throwing around big numbers, but hate it when others do it. I mean, you -blam!- about SW stats...

Oh, if you look in that video, the Reaper stands back up, with NO DAMAGE.

a MAC would not work on a reaper. If it uses a more powerful version of a kinetic barrier, the MAC's hitting power is negated greatly.

Seriously, I find you hypocritical.

  • 09.11.2011 12:56 PM PDT


Posted by: jakemaidment
can you reference ANY of what you've just said.

to start proving you wrong I'm going to, once again, describe the mechanics of a kinetic barrier.
THEY BLOCK MASS
MAC rounds would get nowhere near a reaper, the round would be dissipated by the mass effect field around the reaper, if it was fired fast enough to bypass the field it would be completely stopped by the kinetic shield.
as for energy weapons.
the heat is carried by mass, if the mass is stopped the heat physically cannot travel much further, just as it happens with a MAC round the mass will be dissipated before it hits the shield, if it does hit the shield, the mass will be completely blocked and the heat will only travel a short distance further, since the shielding isn't mere inches away from the reaper, the heat will have completely dispersed before actually touching the reapers hull.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat
educate yourself, come back when you can get some references

I'm not going to even bother because neither did you when I asked for references and I'm not gonna waste even more time with talking with an idiot. Besides, you will ignore it anyway just like you did with everything before.

Jesus Christ, this stuff is hilarious, kinetic barriers ad mass effect fields are two different things, mass effect fields don't even have anything to do with shielding, a MAC round would impact on the shield, oh no wait, I forgot that Reapers have magical shielding that makes every non-ME weapons dissapear despite it never being mentioned inc anon!. According to your logic the Mass Accelerators from the SA should dissapear too, but I'm pretty sure I've seen them impact on Sovereign's shields, but from your claims it's pretty clear you played a different game...
Thinsg that go really slow actually bypass kinetic barriers too, but how cna I expect you to know that?
Again from the impression I got from Sovereign the shielding is mere inches away, but I can't forget, you, like other ME fantards have played a different gane. And Covenant point defense lasers and Energy Projectors will bypass them no matter what because they are energy weapons, the heat from Palsma torpedoes will still damage the Reaper and a hit from a Plasma Torpedo will hurt its shields since it would be like an entire fleet of ME ships was firing at it for hours.

Oh, you can link to to wikipedia pages to make yourslef look smart! I am impressed! Now I'm totally convinced that all you say it's true and not just some fanboy rant!

Why am I evenw asting time on writing this? Ah yes, I'm bored.

  • 09.11.2011 12:59 PM PDT