Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Reapers>The Covenant.
  • Subject: The Reapers>The Covenant.
Subject: The Reapers>The Covenant.

Today iiiiis.... [insert day]

if you're looking at this, you should join Forever Forgers

why? because i'm a member.

reapers are fo sure a lot scarier than the covenant

  • 09.12.2011 8:20 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Spartan 100
You can't rule out a valid tactic just because you don't like it.
Admit your defeat, stop trying to find excuses.
Why hasn't pred been banned yet?

You're not welcome on the halo waypoint forums.

I'm not dismissing it because I don't like it,
I accepted the fact they probably could if they wanted to, but to use it as an offensive weapon is just plain retarded, it'd cause more damage to the forerunners than anything...
it's not like the reapers have been building planets or anything, so shaking apart the galaxy isn't going to help

  • 09.12.2011 8:39 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: jakemaidment

Posted by: fsabran

Posted by: jakemaidment

one rebelion only grunt rebelion Epic Fail
sorry, my bad, I meant age of conflict http://www.halopedian.com/Age_of_Conflict
the 39th age of conflict was the grunt rebellion, this is before the great schism, you know, where the covenant broke apart in civil war?
yes but remenber the covenant was stable until an life changing discovery was made and even then if it wasn't for truth betry your allies police the covenant would have won the war. really if masster chief took five minutes longer to find regret humanity would have been exterminated

my point was that the covenant can barely keep themselves together, they were having civil wars LONG before they found humanity, I think the grunt rebellion was before they discovered humanity...
so that's 39 ages of conflict.
then a covenant shattering civil war when they found the halos

reapers "are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness"

seriously though, straight from the start, which do you fear more?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvrIFIjTGt0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPEYImyvKBY
sovereign or truth?
sovereign was "the first fictional character to make your life seem so insignificant"
and he had the firepower to back it up
truth he a megalomaniacal alien in control of the most powerfull force in the galaxy and he actually doesn't under estimate his enemies

  • 09.12.2011 9:59 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: ThePredkiller2


wait, hang on, since when could forerunners manipulate galaxies like that? I knew they could create planets and creatures, but never once have I heard they can spin a galaxy around willy-nilly.
can someone reference this???


There is none. It is bull#t that someone pulled out of someone's a##hole to distort the truth. What really confuses me is how ignorant people can really be. I mean, I came into this thread to calmly and reasonable argue my point of view, but these people completely and totally ignored points of *common sense* presented to them in bold and italics so that they can substitute and fabricate them with their own over analyzed, over thought, over explained completely and blatantly ridiculous claims to support their own argument unrestrained. When people do that I am inclined to yell at my computer screen in confusion, hopelessness, and pure hatred of what the human race has become.

I am dreadfully sorry OP, that you had to witness the utter disgrace, and retardation, that is the majority of the Halo fan base.
no comments

  • 09.12.2011 10:05 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: ThePredkiller2


wait, hang on, since when could forerunners manipulate galaxies like that? I knew they could create planets and creatures, but never once have I heard they can spin a galaxy around willy-nilly.
can someone reference this???


There is none. It is bull#t that someone pulled out of someone's a##hole to distort the truth. What really confuses me is how ignorant people can really be. I mean, I came into this thread to calmly and reasonable argue my point of view, but these people completely and totally ignored points of *common sense* presented to them in bold and italics so that they can substitute and fabricate them with their own over analyzed, over thought, over explained completely and blatantly ridiculous claims to support their own argument unrestrained. When people do that I am inclined to yell at my computer screen in confusion, hopelessness, and pure hatred of what the human race has become.

I am dreadfully sorry OP, that you had to witness the utter disgrace, and retardation, that is the majority of the Halo fan base.


You fool. They did contemplate to change the axis of entire galaxies:

pg 100 Cryptum:
From those inner secrets, the Forerunners have prodded sufficient power to change the shape of worlds,move stars, and even to contemplate -blam!-ing the axes of entire galaxies. We have explored other realities, other spaces - slipspace, denial of locale, shunspace, trick geodetics, natal void, the photon-only realm the Glow.


And what "common sense " did you brough in here?The BS that Reapers lived ages before the start of the universe??
You did an amazing job at describing yourselfs in that post of yours.


Nice source material regarding the Forerunners 'blam!ing' the axes of galaxys.

To the latter, exactly my point. Right over your head kid.

By the way, go back to grade school and learn proper grammar and I just might take you seriously for once. (That goes for 90 percent or more of this forum's populace.)
again no comment

  • 09.12.2011 10:06 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias



Posted by: ThePredkiller2


wait, hang on, since when could forerunners manipulate galaxies like that? I knew they could create planets and creatures, but never once have I heard they can spin a galaxy around willy-nilly.
can someone reference this???


There is none. It is bull#t that someone pulled out of someone's a##hole to distort the truth. What really confuses me is how ignorant people can really be. I mean, I came into this thread to calmly and reasonable argue my point of view, but these people completely and totally ignored points of *common sense* presented to them in bold and italics so that they can substitute and fabricate them with their own over analyzed, over thought, over explained completely and blatantly ridiculous claims to support their own argument unrestrained. When people do that I am inclined to yell at my computer screen in confusion, hopelessness, and pure hatred of what the human race has become.

I am dreadfully sorry OP, that you had to witness the utter disgrace, and retardation, that is the majority of the Halo fan base.


LOL, you are really a idiot.

Newflash: It came from Halo: Cryptum. It clearly stated that Forerunners were able to tweak its axis of the galaxy easily.

It is obvious that you never read Cryptum in first place... Since Cryptum came out, Forerunners become extremely powerful force, bypassing many sci-fi races, even star wars ones.

It baffles me how those people like you and jake think that Reapers will win. You obviously don't understand very good.

Ergo, Reapers LOSES to Covenant and Forerunners, period. End of story. Vote is casted, and we have determined that Covenant remains victor.

Give it up.

  • 09.12.2011 10:21 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The Covenant vs The Reapers

Win goes to the reapers. The current covenant is a shattered wreckage lacking the Elites. the reapers on the otherhand, are fully rested and at full power.

The Forerunners vs The Reapers(Which i'm only brining up because apparently other people here are argueing ths)

The Forerunners. They have 3,000,000+ planets, the ability to make planet sized weapons, and have mech suit type things that can level forerunner cities. The Reapers are no match for the forerunners.

But that does not change the point. reapers beat the Covenant.

  • 09.12.2011 11:21 AM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: superiorarsenal
The Covenant vs The Reapers

Win goes to the reapers. The current covenant is a shattered wreckage lacking the Elites. the reapers on the otherhand, are fully rested and at full power.

The Forerunners vs The Reapers(Which i'm only brining up because apparently other people here are argueing ths)

The Forerunners. They have 3,000,000+ planets, the ability to make planet sized weapons, and have mech suit type things that can level forerunner cities. The Reapers are no match for the forerunners.

But that does not change the point. reapers beat the Covenant.

i think this about the covies at full power vs the reapers at full power.

  • 09.12.2011 11:29 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

If you want to be ultra-technical, full power woul've been when the Covenant unlocked the Forerunner ships in Halo Wars. If that is the case, then the Covenant win.

  • 09.12.2011 11:41 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: raganok99


Posted by: ThePredkiller2


wait, hang on, since when could forerunners manipulate galaxies like that? I knew they could create planets and creatures, but never once have I heard they can spin a galaxy around willy-nilly.
can someone reference this???


There is none. It is bull#t that someone pulled out of someone's a##hole to distort the truth. What really confuses me is how ignorant people can really be. I mean, I came into this thread to calmly and reasonable argue my point of view, but these people completely and totally ignored points of *common sense* presented to them in bold and italics so that they can substitute and fabricate them with their own over analyzed, over thought, over explained completely and blatantly ridiculous claims to support their own argument unrestrained. When people do that I am inclined to yell at my computer screen in confusion, hopelessness, and pure hatred of what the human race has become.

I am dreadfully sorry OP, that you had to witness the utter disgrace, and retardation, that is the majority of the Halo fan base.


LOL, you are really a idiot.

Newflash: It came from Halo: Cryptum. It clearly stated that Forerunners were able to tweak its axis of the galaxy easily.

It is obvious that you never read Cryptum in first place... Since Cryptum came out, Forerunners become extremely powerful force, bypassing many sci-fi races, even star wars ones.

It baffles me how those people like you and jake think that Reapers will win. You obviously don't understand very good.

Ergo, Reapers LOSES to Covenant and Forerunners, period. End of story. Vote is casted, and we have determined that Covenant remains victor.

Give it up.

I've read cryptum but couldn't remember that, someone sourced it, so I believe it as fact, but to use it as an ossensive weapon is stupid.
the forerunners being able to beat the reapers =/= the covenant being able to beat the reapers
so I see little to no point in your last post
you've just reiterated an ignorant point

  • 09.12.2011 11:45 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: superiorarsenal
If you want to be ultra-technical, full power woul've been when the Covenant unlocked the Forerunner ships in Halo Wars. If that is the case, then the Covenant win.

(in my opinion at least) I'm not sure how much the covenant would be able to do if they had unlocked the ships properly
they could barely gain access to most of the dreadnought and had to use lekgolo to eat through parts of the walls to obtain artifacts, the most the prophets were able to do with it were "hit and run" attacks, dropping bombs.
I think they'd have similar luck with the forerunner ships from wars, they definitely give the covenant a boost, but I think the reapers would be able to either disable the ships or indoctrinate the troops inside.

however if the covenant had full control of the dreadnought AND the ships from wars then they may be able to hold off the reapers for a bit longer and cause significant reaper casualties

[Edited on 09.12.2011 12:03 PM PDT]

  • 09.12.2011 12:02 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

IF they had the ships(IF) they would win. We have very little information on Reapers. The only show of their strength is Soveriegn fighting the Citadel Fleet+Alliance, with the help of a huge Geth Fleet. The battle doesn't tell us much at all about the reapers, especially against a faction with different weapons and technology.

  • 09.12.2011 1:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: superiorarsenal
IF they had the ships(IF) they would win. We have very little information on Reapers. The only show of their strength is Soveriegn fighting the Citadel Fleet+Alliance, with the help of a huge Geth Fleet. The battle doesn't tell us much at all about the reapers, especially against a faction with different weapons and technology.

you can make ALOT of close comparisons and get a general idea.
for example, the guns on mass effect use the same mechanics as a MAC in halo.
the kinetic shielding used in mass effect uses the same mechanics as the shielding on onyx sentinels, from what can be seen on regular sentinels and what I'd (personally) expect to see on forerunner ships
there's alot of info about kinetic shielding all over the internet and from in-game sources.
and so on... it's all been discussed on this thread already, from about page 6 onwards is roughly when I did my comparisons on shielding and weaponry

  • 09.12.2011 1:43 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

When will you get it through your thick skull that halo=/=mass effect.
It's like saying hyperspace is the same as slipstream space or slipstream space is the same as slipspace [andromeda].

  • 09.12.2011 3:17 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I'm not saying they are exactly alike, but the mechanics and results are often similar.
slipspace (halo) and mass relay travel (ME) as similar in that they both use a form of superadvanced engine to propel the craft at faster-than-light speed to their destination.
although in minor details they are very different (shaw-fujikawa drives using blackholes, the mass relays using element zero) both styles could be used in either universe.
a shaw-fujikawa could be used in the ME universe and still work, same as a mass relay would work in the halo universe.
they are BASICALLY the same, or at least serve the same purpose.

same with the shielding, although now EXACTLY alike in both universes, the mechanics are similar and they give extremely similar results

  • 09.12.2011 3:25 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

Slipspace can be a weapon, it can house large things, it can move the axes of galaxies [I think]. It can do a lot of things. It's not only minor details.
We've only seen two shields that act on the ooblek like principle. Onyx sentinels and agressor sentinels. Everything else we've seen acts on different types of shieldings. And in forerunner terms, energy fields.

  • 09.12.2011 3:32 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Spartan 100
Slipspace can be a weapon, it can house large things, it can move the axes of galaxies [I think]. It can do a lot of things. It's not only minor details.
We've only seen two shields that act on the ooblek like principle. Onyx sentinels and agressor sentinels. Everything else we've seen acts on different types of shieldings. And in forerunner terms, energy fields.

what I'm saying is; a slipspace drive would still function the same in any universe and can be used for FTL travel.
it's a suitable and logical comparison because we don't have every last detail.

also, from what I've seen and read, standard sentinels use a form of kinetic shield, the shield is inactive until it detects a fast moving mass coming towards it, because of the sentinels small size the shield is easily overloaded and collapsed.
the (most logical) reason they are destryed so quickly by plasma fire is because once the mass of the round is dissipated by the kinetic shield, the heat can still travel a short distance (longer through air than a vacuum as it would travel on the mass of the air) and be carried to the sentinel.

the only forerunner construct that clearly shows different shielding designs are the enforcers (?) which carry 2 solid shields in front of itself, these aren't kinetic, the block everything that comes towards them: bullets, plasma, rocks.
but because they block everything, they can be overloaded by sustained fire.
the enforcers are "designed to handle major Flood outbreaks" this explains the different shields, flood combat form jumping at the sentinels isn't fast enough to trigger the shield, leaving the sentinel unshielded against the flood forms attacking it, so they created a sentinel specifically for controlling outbreaks, they gave it solid shields to block flood attacks and a heavy weapons system.

just wiki'd
firstly I can't find ANY info on 'sentinel aggressors' yet it comes up in the auto-fill...
also there's a few types there I can't quite remember, I'm in the quarantine zone on halo 2 at the mo' so I'll have a look around there.
http://www.halopedian.com/Sentinel_Aggressor_Minor
the page says 'aggressor minor' is that basically 'normal sentinel'

  • 09.13.2011 1:08 AM PDT


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Anyways, to be back on topic (my claims will probably be ignored anyway, but what the hell can you do)

Actually Reaper tech is almost certainly superior to Covenant technology...they simply don't have the same number of ridiculous high-end firepower calcs.

If the Reapers had even a single instance of rough parity with average-to-high-end calcs for the Covenant then it would be a raepstomp of rather epic proportions. Reapers outnumber them, the "slower FTL" is frankly bull-blam!- considering the Reapers *made* FTL stations that can cause ships to travel from one spiral arm of the galaxy to a different one *instantly* and from the area of the Omega 4 relay (middle of one of the spiral arms roughly) to the galactic center *instantly*. Thus, Covenant having faster FTL is quite honestly a stupid claim when the Reapers have demonstrated quite obviously their own superior FTL drives.

Also, indoctrinazation. The Covenant see a Reaper, they board it thinking it might be a Forerunner artefact. They become the Reapers slaves and the ship they were on (due to their super-rigid chain of command) is now completely compremised. Cue the Reaper ass-raping the Covenant networks and stealing any and all technology that it deems useful, and then using said tech against the Covenant.

In the end, the Reapers *will* win, its just a matter of time, and subtlety. Both of which the Reapers have in spades.

The idea that the Reapers, beings that have exterminated countless sapient (and potentially galaxy spanning) empires and races over potentially hundreds of millions of years *not* being good at tactics is simply ludicrous. The idea that the Elites could rival the Reapers in fleet tactics given the *huge* disparity in experiance and actual time fighting *and* huge difference in sheer cognitive speed is stimply stupid.

Reapers > Covenant in basically everything except high-end firepower calcs. Given the more reasonable calcs the Covenant get steamrolled. Only by use of the super-high clacs do the Covenant stand any chance at all.

Also, the OP doesn't specifiy that the battle must be concluded in the opening fight. The Reapers aren't dumb, and they aren't foolish. If they don't think they can win the fight they will leave and then spend a few hundred (or thousand) years waiting and setting up the downfall of the Covenant. Meanwhile, the Covenant will have largely forgotten about the Reapers right up until the Reapers show up and steamroll them.

Also, ironically if the Reapers just leave they are quite likely to win in the long term anyway because the ultimate goal of the Covenant is to wipe out all sentient organic life in the galaxy (even if they don't realize it) which ironically enough doesn't include the Reapers.


I will keep quoting this until you knaves acknowledge the fine print.

@Spartan: Just so you know, I haven't been to that cesspool in ages, nor would I think about coming back after they so arrogantly banned me for having an opinion different than 343.

  • 09.13.2011 3:32 AM PDT


Posted by: jakemaidment

[quote]Posted by: superiorarsenal
you can make ALOT of close comparisons and get a general idea.
for example, the guns on mass effect use the same mechanics as a MAC in halo.


Nope. According to the guy on the citadel, Mass accelerators are considerably weaker.

"This recruits is a 20 kilo ferous slug. Feel the weight! Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates one, to one-point-three percent of lightspeed.
It impacts with the force a 38 kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means, Sir Isacc Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-***** in space! Now! Serviceman Burnside, what is Newton's First Law?..."

38 kilotons of force. compare this to the UNSC's MAC cannons, which fire 600 ton slugs at 30,000 metres per second, impacting with 1.17 teratons of energy. And shielded covenant ships can shrug off these impacts at least once. If covenant shields can survive these blasts while reapers can be destroyed by Mass Accelerator blasts, it is obvious which one has superior shielding. Oh, and kinetic barriers offer no protection against energy weaponry whatsoever, so Covenant lasers will make Reaper swiss cheese, with collector garnish.

[Edited on 09.17.2011 9:38 PM PDT]

  • 09.13.2011 3:54 AM PDT

Oh, and btw Halo fankids, I started this topic on the Mass Effect forums:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8316113

Get ready for an inter-forum sh1tstorm, comrades.

  • 09.13.2011 3:59 AM PDT


Posted by: Felco1

Posted by: jakemaidment

[quote]Posted by: superiorarsenal
you can make ALOT of close comparisons and get a general idea.
for example, the guns on mass effect use the same mechanics as a MAC in halo.


Nope. According to the guy on the citadel, Mass accelerators are considerably weaker.

"This recruits is a 20 kilo ferous slug. Feel the weight! Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates one, to one-point-three percent of lightspeed.
It impacts with the force a 38 kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means, Sir Isacc Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-***** in space! Now! Serviceman Burnside, what is Newton's First Law?..."

48 kilotons of force. compare this to the UNSC's MAC cannons, which fire 600 ton slugs at 30,000 metres per second, impacting with 1.17 teratons of energy. And shielded covenant ships can shrug off these impacts at least once. If covenant shields can survive these blasts while reapers can be destroyed by Mass Accelerator blasts, it is obvious which one has superior shielding. Oh, and kinetic barriers offer no protection against energy weaponry whatsoever, so Covenant lasers will make Reaper swiss cheese, with collector garnish.


Quoted for thru7h

  • 09.13.2011 4:42 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Fin
  • user homepage:

"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

We know very little about the Reaper's capabilities, while we know they are superior to the Citadel Races, we don't really know *how* superior they are.

The Covenant (unless you use the absolute lowest end numbers) are also superior to the Citadel Races on a ship-for-ship basis, as well as having greater fleet numbers.

Covenant firepower can be argued to be high megatons to mid gigatons depending on what sources you want to use.
I ignore the encyclopedia numbers that would suggest teraton-equivalent firepower as I think it's not consistent with other sources.

The Reaper Nazara 'Sovereign' was taken down by a fleet action of ships that have mid-kiloton equivalent firepower. Hence the Covenant should be able to take down the Reapers in fleet action as well.

  • 09.13.2011 5:11 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Felco1

Posted by: jakemaidment

[quote]Posted by: superiorarsenal
you can make ALOT of close comparisons and get a general idea.
for example, the guns on mass effect use the same mechanics as a MAC in halo.


Nope. According to the guy on the citadel, Mass accelerators are considerably weaker.

"This recruits is a 20 kilo ferous slug. Feel the weight! Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates one, to one-point-three percent of lightspeed.
It impacts with the force a 38 kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means, Sir Isacc Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-***** in space! Now! Serviceman Burnside, what is Newton's First Law?..."

48 kilotons of force. compare this to the UNSC's MAC cannons, which fire 600 ton slugs at 30,000 metres per second, impacting with 1.17 teratons of energy. And shielded covenant ships can shrug off these impacts at least once. If covenant shields can survive these blasts while reapers can be destroyed by Mass Accelerator blasts, it is obvious which one has superior shielding. Oh, and kinetic barriers offer no protection against energy weaponry whatsoever, so Covenant lasers will make Reaper swiss cheese, with collector garnish.


firstly note how I said 'similar mechanics' not 'same round size', when I said about the mass accelerators I meant the handheld weaponry aswell, it all uses gauss technology, developed during WW2 for sea-mines then later developed into prototype weapons.

I'd expect the mass accelerator on ME ships to be better than a MAC because it uses much more advanced tech than the UNSC have, plus they use element zero to boost it.

also, don't forget about superMACs, able to punch right through a CCS in one shot

as for the plasma vs kinetic shields point, the shield deflects the mass of the plasma, the heat can't travel much further than that as there is no mass to carry it in a vacuum

  • 09.13.2011 5:53 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Fin5434p
The Reaper Nazara 'Sovereign' was taken down by a fleet action of ships that have mid-kiloton equivalent firepower. Hence the Covenant should be able to take down the Reapers in fleet action as well.

you forget that not only was sovereign stunned when Saren was killed, but his long range weaponry systems were down and he was trying to unlock the citadel manually.
being a scout, the odds were stacked against him, yet he still managed to cripple the alliance...

SOLO

  • 09.13.2011 5:55 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Oh, and btw Halo fankids, I started this topic on the Mass Effect forums:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8316113

Get ready for an inter-forum sh1tstorm, comrades.

actually that was kind of depressing...verses threads not allowed and all...but that first guy gave a useful link.
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#FTL _Drive
^posted for those interested in ME ship types

  • 09.13.2011 6:00 AM PDT