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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Reapers>The Covenant.
  • Subject: The Reapers>The Covenant.
Subject: The Reapers>The Covenant.

I had to post this conversation from that forum, oh, and to quote a poster by the name of Computer God91...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

111987 wrote...

Mmm, fair point. But since when have Reapers been able to hack enemy ships in the first place? If it was so easy why didn't Sovereign just do that at the Battle of the Citadel? Where did the notion that Reapers can hack things remotely come from anyways? EDI is a Reaper-based AI but only could hack systems once it had a physical connection. Reaper's can't hack the Geth either, so this seems like a moot point.

Besides, because Reaper shields don't defend against plasma, a squad of Seraph fighters could take down a Reaper. A Reaper can't hack all of the ships the Covenant have.



First off, I was merely remarking that your information on the Covenant having "sophisticated-AI" was wrong. This debate is amusing, but I'd rather not get too involved into it. That said, I am more than happy to oblige your questions. smilie

111987 wrote...
But since when have Reapers been able to hack enemy ships in the first place?




Hard to say, mostly because we have rarely seen them combat ships. It could be a factual thing. A common criticism of the movie Independence Day is that Jeff Goldblum's character was able to hack an entire alien network with a Mac. Hacking networks of differing interfaces is next to impossible. Nevermind whether or not you have even had a chance to understand it.

That said, a lot of technology is based on Reaper technology. So assuming the core of it is similar, hacking them wouldn't be too farfetched.

111987 wrote...
If it was so easy why didn't Sovereign just do that at the Battle of the Citadel?



Who's to say he didn't? That said, Sovereign didn't realize Shepard would even be able to open the Citadel, let alone be faced by a fleet. Hacking would be impractical. Really, Sovereign was doing just fine destroying them, since the fleet even contemplated retreating. On top of that, Sovereign was finished when "Saren" was killed. There is just as much evidence for and against to say that Sovereign could have continued on fighting if he had just ignored Shepard.

111987 wrote...
Where did the notion that Reapers can hack things remotely come from
anyways? EDI is a Reaper-based AI but only could hack systems once it
had a physical connection. Reaper's can't hack the Geth either, so this
seems like a moot point.



To clarify, she can hack things within range of their signals. We have no idea if the Reapers can project a large signal due to having a larger power source, or if EDI's has been limited. She clearly hacks into the Collector Ship and a few others on several occassions. And hacking Geth is a trickier thing, since the geth programs quickly correct themselves (that is why they're difficult to hack).



111987 wrote...
Besides, because Reaper shields don't defend against plasma, a squad
of Seraph fighters could take down a Reaper. A Reaper can't hack all of
the ships the Covenant have.



Not really. Yeah, their barriers would likely be bypassed, but the damage done by them would likely be minimal. The hulls of Reapers are hardly frail. And Reaper weapons are more than capable of destroying Covenant ships, both from range and literally being able to grapple them.

I would ultimately just like to say that hacking ships is impractical anytime enemy ships > 1. It would be more practical to fight directly, and hack if there are no other threats.

One more thing:


111987 wrote...
5). FTL does exist in ME, it's just nowhere near the Covenant's
capabilities. This allows them to have pinpoint jumps to anywhere in the
galaxy, and they don't have to worry about drive core discharge.



While you're technically right, you're mostly wrong. The Covenant ships are certainly capapble of some impressive things, including pinpoint jumps, the Covenant don't really get it. They make some solid jumps, sure, but nothing to the degree they are capable of. In fact, their weapons suffer from that same lack of understanding. And their tactics... haha.

Reapers are capable of FTL flight. Discharging cores is only a matter when you don't want to fry your crew. Reapers don't have one. One top of that, they suffer no drawbacks when engaging in FTL while Covenant weapons suffer from travel time. This means it is easy to dodge, disengage, and then attack.

One more thing, if a Covenant ship makes a jump, they're screwed. All systems are temporarily offline while they recover from the jump. Wouldn't take long for the Reapers to notice.




Owned.

  • 09.13.2011 8:57 PM PDT

This one's pretty funny too.




The Reapers have engaged in galactic extinction every now and again, I'm sure they have nothing but time.

Here's the thing you keep missing. The Covenant don't have attacks that attack instantly in any way. Sure, they may have Range, but it still takes time for them to hit. On top of the fact that they have to figure out where to hit. Yes, upon exiting FTL they can be tracked, but it would still take some sort of time for them to be detected, and for then the Covenant to react to it.

And really, there is no reason teh Reapers can't do any of this. They have Mass Effect cores that can allow FTL travel as well as fire their weapons. They can bank in space, meaning reorientation is a non-issue. And they can fire their guns.

Sure, there could be a range issue, but then use that to their advantage. Just position yourself next to another Covenant ship, then get out of there. Friendly fire is on.

And sure, the Covenant could do that, but wouldn't that effectively end the fight? If they're going to use their Slipspace jump to get out of there, it better be a good distance away, otherwise the Reapers will just head there and hit them while they are down.

So basically you are saying the Covenant will be playing a fail game of whak-a-mole with the Reapers.

"I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite post on this thread."


XD

  • 09.13.2011 9:04 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Lots of assumptions,barely any knowledge of the Covenant,...

Why am i not suprised,even the Flood forum is as worse as half of those idiots think the Reapers can beat the Forerunners.

I guess the reason why Pred made that thread is to search for new arguments for this thread...LMAO

It has been proven already in this thread the Reapers have inferior range,inferior weapons,inferior shields,...

  • 09.13.2011 10:55 PM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II
Lots of assumptions,barely any knowledge of the Covenant,...

Why am i not suprised,even the Flood forum is as worse as half of those idiots think the Reapers can beat the Forerunners.

I guess the reason why Pred made that thread is to search for new arguments for this thread...LMAO

It has been proven already in this thread the Reapers have inferior range,inferior weapons,inferior shields,...



I've watched this thread for a while and never felt to need to involve myself but exactly WHEN was it proven Reapers have inferior weapons, range and shields? As far as I'm aware no one has the right to GUESS anything at the momnet. Everyone here knows VERY little about Reapers...and rightly so considering you see one ship do a few things in one game. You really can't jude anything from that yet. I'm sure we will learn more about shields and weaponary in ME3 but untill then were is everyon drawing their conclusion of how inferior Reapers are? From a cutscene? Hardly enough to go by to base ANY argument on either side. This is kind of fail. Don't get me wrong I'm nto choosing sides here I like to see boths sides but how can I when one side is only a fraction complete because of most of it being speculation. You should leave this discussion untill more regarding the reapers is realesed. Everyone has thousands of refrences and statistics regarding the Covenant yet none on the Reaper sbecause of how little the information we gain from them is.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 1:23 AM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 1:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: Spartan 100
The 25th of October, 400 pages.
So far I love it! I like the way she aproaches thing and I want to discover the environment a lot.

Edit: You dismiss what you will have to accept. Why not accept it now instead of making yourself look like [I don't know what to say but I hope you understand me]?

She was looking at a lake but she saw it wasn't a lake, it was glassed land, she checked the CAA factbook and saw it was no lake.
Edit 2: That's no lake, it's a glassland! [:P]

I think it's just the different ways a 'glassing' is interpreted, people tend to exaggerate, and when it's being written as a book "the grasslands were turned into complete glass" sounds ALOT better than "the grasslands were on fire and kinda burned looking"
plus did anyone think there might be a way to alter the power on the beam?
1) off
2) warm
3) light toast
4) complete glassing

(obviously I missed one for comedic effect)

  • 09.14.2011 2:09 AM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II
Lots of assumptions,barely any knowledge of the Covenant,...

Why am i not suprised,even the Flood forum is as worse as half of those idiots think the Reapers can beat the Forerunners.

I guess the reason why Pred made that thread is to search for new arguments for this thread...LMAO

It has been proven already in this thread the Reapers have inferior range,inferior weapons,inferior shields,...


That's how MEtards roll, all their arguments here are also asusmptions, why? Because they can't win with the canon info we have, they have to make up stuff and claim we are being a bunch of ignorant fanboys for not accepting their ridiculous speculations, in fact I know at least one will call me one after I post this.

I saw idiots on BSN claiming that the Systems Alliance can defeat the Imperium of Man, so yeah, there you have it, even bigger retards.

He created it because they are not enough ME fantards here to support him. So instead he went to BSN which is filled with ME fantards that worship ME like it's a God, creepy ME fantards that do an entire analysis on alien breast milk, PC Elitists, RPG Elitists and one thing they all have incommon is their hate for Halo and they use threads like that as an excuse to hate on it, even while most of them have never played Halo and don't know -blam!- about it, they just hate it because it makes them cool.

Not in their world!

The best thing you can do with this is to leave them alone in their little world and let this thread die because arguing with them is pointless.

  • 09.14.2011 3:14 AM PDT

@Predkiller:

All anyone in that forum did was show their complete lack of information on the Covenant, assume things, and completely guess things. If anything, those posts just showed the Covenant wins even more.

  • 09.14.2011 4:26 AM PDT


Posted by: Vercetti24

Posted by: hotshot revan II
Lots of assumptions,barely any knowledge of the Covenant,...

Why am i not suprised,even the Flood forum is as worse as half of those idiots think the Reapers can beat the Forerunners.

I guess the reason why Pred made that thread is to search for new arguments for this thread...LMAO

It has been proven already in this thread the Reapers have inferior range,inferior weapons,inferior shields,...


That's how MEtards roll, all their arguments here are also asusmptions, why? Because they can't win with the canon info we have, they have to make up stuff and claim we are being a bunch of ignorant fanboys for not accepting their ridiculous speculations, in fact I know at least one will call me one after I post this.

I saw idiots on BSN claiming that the Systems Alliance can defeat the Imperium of Man, so yeah, there you have it, even bigger retards.

He created it because they are not enough ME fantards here to support him. So instead he went to BSN which is filled with ME fantards that worship ME like it's a God, creepy ME fantards that do an entire analysis on alien breast milk, PC Elitists, RPG Elitists and one thing they all have incommon is their hate for Halo and they use threads like that as an excuse to hate on it, even while most of them have never played Halo and don't know -blam!- about it, they just hate it because it makes them cool.

Not in their world!

The best thing you can do with this is to leave them alone in their little world and let this thread die because arguing with them is pointless.


I swear every time I read that somebody who is a living, breathing human being said Systems Alliance>Imperium, something dies inside me a little more. And damn it I just got back into Mass Effect, now they had to go tarnish my view of it more with their up tight fanbase!

For anyone here who honestly thinks that, I want you to read up on the WH40K wiki about any one single Imperium ship, then read about the Imperium's military influence and manufacturing capabilities, and if you still think the Systems Alliance or even the entire Mass Effect universe 5 times over would win, you're an insufferable idiot.

  • 09.14.2011 4:32 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum

I'm a giant fan of both universes, but I don't let it get to me.. Mass Effect is still a baby. Mass Effect won't be as large as Halo because it's only going to have 3 games. That limits the canon quite a bit.

I like the Reapers, and I find them fascinating. But I'm not going to insult Halo by saying they could 1 hit pwn Forerunners or something like that.

As for fighting against the Covies, we just don't have enough info on the Reapers to make anything more than an educated guess. But a guess is still a guess. We'll have to wait for ME3 and perhaps even a few more books to make a defenite answer. Hopefully somebody will write a trilogy on the Reapers, like Halo is doing with the Forerunners and what not.

But for now, please, stop the whole flame war. It makes both sides look like children. I suggest this topic to be locked.

  • 09.14.2011 7:02 AM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: jakemaidment
not specifically replying to anyone here, but to clear things up.
the datapads said it'd take "2000 ships 30 years" and that the covenant were unable to do that.
a few weeks (or whatever) later, a fleet of 50,000 (ish, can't remember exact, someone help me here) turned up and destroyed reach in a single day, were it not for the Chief destroying the Unyielding hierophant, a fleet of much larger size was lined up for earth.
I quote cortana "that's the biggest fleet I've ever seen, the biggest anyone's ever seen" when the homefleet turned up on delta halo, this means it's WAAAAY bigger than the 50,000 that glassed reach.
the theoretical numbers add up.

I'd also like to add that the "excavation beams" were used to uncover forerunner objects, the covenant only found human planets with forerunner objects on (detected by the luminary) and so glassed every human world they found.
(hence the rings cut into the surface of the planets)
There is a rule in Halo cannon that newer cannon overwrites older cannon well look at the defiant map pack and you will see what im talking about

  • 09.14.2011 10:20 AM PDT


Posted by: fsabran

Posted by: jakemaidment
not specifically replying to anyone here, but to clear things up.
the datapads said it'd take "2000 ships 30 years" and that the covenant were unable to do that.
a few weeks (or whatever) later, a fleet of 50,000 (ish, can't remember exact, someone help me here) turned up and destroyed reach in a single day, were it not for the Chief destroying the Unyielding hierophant, a fleet of much larger size was lined up for earth.
I quote cortana "that's the biggest fleet I've ever seen, the biggest anyone's ever seen" when the homefleet turned up on delta halo, this means it's WAAAAY bigger than the 50,000 that glassed reach.
the theoretical numbers add up.

I'd also like to add that the "excavation beams" were used to uncover forerunner objects, the covenant only found human planets with forerunner objects on (detected by the luminary) and so glassed every human world they found.
(hence the rings cut into the surface of the planets)
There is a rule in Halo cannon that newer cannon overwrites older cannon well look at the defiant map pack and you will see what im talking about


Multiplayer does not = canon. Even then the planet is on fire from rampant wildfires through the forest, not glassed.

Jake, I'll help you on the numbers, a Fleet of 300-some ships arrived at Reach and overran it. There has never been a Covenant fleet listed at 50,000 ships.

  • 09.14.2011 10:26 AM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

Multiplayer maps are canon...

  • 09.14.2011 10:56 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: Spartan 100
Multiplayer maps are canon...


No they are not.

  • 09.14.2011 11:30 AM PDT


Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: Spartan 100
Multiplayer maps are canon...


No they are not.


Depends on the map I think. The locations for most are of some canon place, but details could be off.

  • 09.14.2011 11:55 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Spartan 100
Multiplayer maps are canon...

Multiplayer maps are not to be used as a canon source of information. If they are, why did the Forerunners build a pair of bases in a box canyon?

  • 09.14.2011 12:31 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

They are, because they did.

  • 09.14.2011 12:35 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Spartan 100
Multiplayer maps are canon...

Multiplayer maps are not to be used as a canon source of information. If they are, why did the Forerunners build a pair of bases in a box canyon?


Squad training facility?

So far all maps from Halo 2 to Halo Reach received canonical info like Narrows is one of the arks cooling systems,Highlands is a Spartan training facility, Midship is inside the Pious inquisitor starship,...and so on and so on.

How important is it for a new map to fit somewhere into the existing Halo storyline?

DM: In general, our philosophy is to build a map that's fun to play and looks great and find ways to weave it into the storyline afterwards.

LB: Sure, it's not super important that it fits into the current game's storyline, but it must be fictionally relevant. We want these locations to fit in with the universe, obviously. They might not be exactly where the current game is taking place, but they are in similar locations, or other parts of where the existing campaign is taking place. With the multiplayer maps we try to expand the universe and tell our own stories with each location.


GameSpy: Although multiplayer doesn't continue the story, it seems like each level has its own back-story. Is that your doing?

Joe Staten: My only real contribution to the design of the multiplayer maps was a little writing for their' UI descriptions and a lot of whining that they had too few cherry sniper-spots (yes, I'm one of those players). We all wanted to make sure the multiplayer maps were reminiscent of Halo 2 locales and, therefore, rooted in the single-player fiction, but the success of that effort is all the multiplayer team's doing.


Of course things like spawns,weapons and vehicle placements are non canon.



  • 09.14.2011 12:42 PM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Spartan 100
Multiplayer maps are canon...

Multiplayer maps are not to be used as a canon source of information. If they are, why did the Forerunners build a pair of bases in a box canyon?


Squad training facility?

So far all maps from Halo 2 to Halo Reach received canonical info like Narrows is one of the arks cooling systems,Highlands is a Spartan training facility, Midship is inside the Pious inquisitor starship,...and so on and so on.

How important is it for a new map to fit somewhere into the existing Halo storyline?

DM: In general, our philosophy is to build a map that's fun to play and looks great and find ways to weave it into the storyline afterwards.

LB: Sure, it's not super important that it fits into the current game's storyline, but it must be fictionally relevant. We want these locations to fit in with the universe, obviously. They might not be exactly where the current game is taking place, but they are in similar locations, or other parts of where the existing campaign is taking place. With the multiplayer maps we try to expand the universe and tell our own stories with each location.


GameSpy: Although multiplayer doesn't continue the story, it seems like each level has its own back-story. Is that your doing?

Joe Staten: My only real contribution to the design of the multiplayer maps was a little writing for their' UI descriptions and a lot of whining that they had too few cherry sniper-spots (yes, I'm one of those players). We all wanted to make sure the multiplayer maps were reminiscent of Halo 2 locales and, therefore, rooted in the single-player fiction, but the success of that effort is all the multiplayer team's doing.


Of course things like spawns,weapons and vehicle placements are non canon.





Thank. God. Finally, irrefutable proof that Condemned is canon; events in the play space are not, but the environment is.

Now can everyone see it? The incinerate planet surface being blown into the stone age? In one day that was done, not thirty years. I again would like to bring back what I said: the Covenant do not actually turn a planet to glass, they never did, but rather they immolate them, as we clearly see happen to Kholo and Reach.

  • 09.14.2011 1:58 PM PDT
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Exactly.

The AIs calculated as if the Covenant actually turned the surface to glass. This is not what they do. Then people are like "Omgsh teh covi3s c@nt g1ass teh planet$ a1l they d0 is b0mb cert@in plaCes"

Then they outright ignore all my posts showing that each planet "burned" needs 25-100 years to terraform it to get it back to easily livable again. The UNSC colonized 800 planets in 500 years. That is slightly more than 1 planet a year that they did terraforming on for the most part(Unless all planets are just like Earth, which they aren't).

  • 09.14.2011 5:28 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
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The covenants DO glass though.

  • 09.14.2011 5:54 PM PDT


Posted by: ZowerPower
@Predkiller:

All anyone in that forum did was show their complete lack of information on the Covenant, assume things, and completely guess things. If anything, those posts just showed the Covenant wins even more.


No, the Covenant lose because they were stupid enough to allow themselves to fall apart not even two full months into the story. The Reapers held together for billions of years, maybe even trillions, and you must remember they think like a machine, thus they are infallible until they encounter some sort of virus, and considering the fact that human AI were still able to fall victim to as primitive a being as the Gravemind, no civilization, no species, no individual in the entirety of the Halo canon stands a chance against the Reapers. Its impossible.

  • 09.15.2011 11:08 PM PDT


Posted by: ThePredkiller2

No, the Covenant lose because they were stupid enough to allow themselves to fall apart not even two full months into the story. The Reapers held together for billions of years, maybe even trillions, and you must remember they think like a machine, thus they are infallible until they encounter some sort of virus, and considering the fact that human AI were still able to fall victim to as primitive a being as the Gravemind, no civilization, no species, no individual in the entirety of the Halo canon stands a chance against the Reapers. Its impossible.


You're funny.

  • 09.16.2011 2:41 AM PDT


Posted by: otterboyz

Posted by: ThePredkiller2

No, the Covenant lose because they were stupid enough to allow themselves to fall apart not even two full months into the story. The Reapers held together for billions of years, maybe even trillions, and you must remember they think like a machine, thus they are infallible until they encounter some sort of virus, and considering the fact that human AI were still able to fall victim to as primitive a being as the Gravemind, no civilization, no species, no individual in the entirety of the Halo canon stands a chance against the Reapers. Its impossible.


You're funny.

Not just funny, that idiot is fricking hilarious! Reapers being trillions of years older then the universe, Gravemind being "primitive;" Covenant, Forerunners and Precurors standing no chance against the Reapers, this is comedy gold!
Oh mighty MEtard predkiller with what will you amuse us next? Reapers beat the Imperium of Man? Reapers beat Xeelee? Reapers beat Necrons? Reapers beat Chaos? Systems Alliance beats the Imperium of Man?

[Edited on 09.16.2011 4:52 AM PDT]

  • 09.16.2011 4:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: ThePredkiller2

No, the Covenant lose because they were stupid enough to allow themselves to fall apart not even two full months into the story.


Erm, to be honest, if your best hope for a Reaper 'win' is "the Covenant fall apart due to civil war" then I think that says just how badly you are grasping at straws.

It's also not a valid comparison, it's a bit like saying " The Waku-Waku islanders (all 26 of em) can beat the Roman Empire, because Brutus will stab Ceaser in the back before they sail half way there."

The Reapers held together for billions of years, maybe even trillions,

No evidence.

The oldest referenced Reaper-like thing was at 30-something million years ago, no evidence to suggest they are billions of years old.

and you must remember they think like a machine, thus they are infallible

Ah yes, the supposed "infallability" of the Old Machines. With the destruction of Nazara we have dissmissed this claim.

until they encounter some sort of virus,

Hahahahahaha!
Ahem
Hahahahaha!

Just about the worst tactic imaginable to use against a Reaper, assuming it noticed it might spare you out of amusement I suppose...

I blame "Independance Day" for this kind of thinking.
Not a viable tactic, shooting them works just fine anyway.

and considering the fact that human AI were still able to fall victim to as primitive a being as the Gravemind,

I see you have never played Halo's campaign, this is sad, it's a good story you are missing.

no civilization, no species, no individual in the entirety of the Halo canon stands a chance against the Reapers.

It's entirely possible that the UNSC could defeat them on their own, especially if you use the (canon, if a little crazy) figures for the MAC gun's firepower shown in the Encyclopedia.

Ignoring that number as a typo, which I think seems fair, the Covenant have demonstrated a far greater martial capability from their warships than we have ever seen from the Citadel races, or the Reapers.

Its impossible.

Your logic is flawed.

  • 09.16.2011 5:03 AM PDT


Posted by: Fin5434p
It's entirely possible that the UNSC could defeat them on their own, especially if you use the (canon, if a little crazy) figures for the MAC gun's firepower shown in the Encyclopedia.

Actually with the current MAC firepower they could still win. Nukes bypass kinetic barriers and UNSC nukes have more firepower then entire ME fleets can fire in hours or days, they could probably still take out the Reapers even if their shields magically worked, why? Reapers can be destroyed by ME's forces, stated in canon a couple times.
SMACs wouldn't have difficulties with destroying them either. If the Reapers made the fatal mistake and have the bulk of their fleet stay at the same place they would be hit with a NOVA, which could be launched through Slipspace. And then there are also people like Captain Keyes...
As long as the Reapers would be limited to the estimated numbers of around 800 UNSC stands a chance.

  • 09.16.2011 5:18 AM PDT