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  • Subject: You are the child of my maker
Subject: You are the child of my maker

GAAAAYYY

Alright im confused spark and gravemind keep saying that chief is the child of the forerunners 343 guilty spark sai dit before going rampant he said "you are the child of my make, you are forerunner"

and gravemind said "child of my enemy why have you come" in the level cortana i dont get it how can chief be forerunner

  • 08.02.2011 4:14 AM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

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I have seen you future

343 was rampant at the time he said this. If you read Cryptum you would have seen that the Gravemind may have been referring to ancient humanity when he referred to his enemy.

Master chief isn't a forerunner, nor are humanity the descendants of forerunners.

  • 08.02.2011 4:23 AM PDT

GAAAAYYY


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
343 was rampant at the time he said this. If you read Cryptum you would have seen that the Gravemind may have been referring to ancient humanity when he referred to his enemy.

Master chief isn't a forerunner, nor are humanity the descendants of forerunners.


but the floods first and main enemy and the flood where the first to find a way to destroy the flood and so what in 343 was rampant doesnt mean he talks bull

  • 08.02.2011 4:32 AM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

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I have seen you future

Warning, Cryptum spoilers:

The Flood's first enemy (that we know of) was ancient humanity. Before forerunner flood war humanity controlled an empire that rivaled that of the forerunners. Humans were the first ones to come in contact with the Flood. They were able to defeat the flood, but their war sparked a war with the forerunners that we lost, being devolved and losing our empire.

Before the forerunners fought humanity, the humans held the last precursor as a prisoner.

[speculation]The prisoner became infected by the flood, later becoming the gravemind.[/speculation]

This is backed by the child of my enemy line, as well as the line "Death is merely the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved."

This also disproves 343's claim that Master Chief is forerunner.

  • 08.02.2011 4:40 AM PDT
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UWG

My jokes, so I don't lose them (ignore this):
ZedFish's Opinion on Sgt. Foley.
ZedFish's Forerunner Rickroll.

There were ancient Humans who were the first to "find" the Flood, even before the Forerunners.
They used it to make pets, and it mutated their pets into Flood forms, basically.
THings went downhill from there... "Child of my enemy" probably refers to Chief being a Human, and a descendant of the Ancient Humans.

343 was going rampant at the time he said "Child of my makers" and "You are Forerunner", so...

(Curse you, CTN. :P)

[Edited on 08.02.2011 4:41 AM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 4:41 AM PDT


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Warning, Cryptum spoilers:

The Flood's first enemy (that we know of) was ancient humanity. Before forerunner flood war humanity controlled an empire that rivaled that of the forerunners. Humans were the first ones to come in contact with the Flood. They were able to defeat the flood, but their war sparked a war with the forerunners that we lost, being devolved and losing our empire.

Before the forerunners fought humanity, the humans held the last precursor as a prisoner.

[speculation]The prisoner became infected by the flood, later becoming the gravemind.[/speculation]

This is backed by the child of my enemy line, as well as the line "Death is merely the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved."

This also disproves 343's claim that Master Chief is forerunner.


This.
Although the speculation part probably won't be about "the" Gravemind (the one we know), but "a" Gravemind.
The Gravemind at the time of Cryptum, Primordium and the third Forerunner book was most likely not the same phycical Gravemind as the one we know. That one was most likely destroyed when the Forerunners activated the Halos.
But because the Gravemind is like a living AI (or living database to be more correct I guess) that has, and builds upon, exsisting knowledge gained from the "database" build by previous Graveminds, he seems to actually be the ancient Gravemind.

Complicated story in short:
Physically not the same (probably)
but mentally he is (and expanded upon)

And because he has this knowledge of his predecessors he says stuff like "child of my enemy". Which we now know points at the ancient humans, and not to the Forerunners (who just adopted us as their heirs)

[Edited on 08.02.2011 5:50 AM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 5:48 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: DonVinzone1
This.
Although the speculation part probably won't be about "the" Gravemind (the one we know), but "a" Gravemind.
The Gravemind at the time of Cryptum, Primordium and the third Forerunner book was most likely not the same phycical Gravemind as the one we know. That one was most likely destroyed when the Forerunners activated the Halos.


However, we know that the Prisoner/Gravemind was capable of surviving the test fire of Halo at Charum Hakkor. Halo doesn't affect Pure Form Flood, I'm not aware on any data to back me up with this statement but I doubt the Halos would kill off the final stage of the Flood evolution. After all, the Proto-Gravemind seemingly survived during Halo Wars along with the other Flood on the Shield World.


But because the Gravemind is like a living AI (or living database to be more correct I guess) that has, and builds upon, exsisting knowledge gained from the "database" build by previous Graveminds, he seems to actually be the ancient Gravemind.

Complicated story in short:
Physically not the same (probably)
but mentally he is (and expanded upon)

And because he has this knowledge of his predecessors he says stuff like "child of my enemy". Which we now know points at the ancient humans, and not to the Forerunners (who just adopted us as their heirs)


I'm not overly convinced about the Gravemind in Halo 2 and 3 being a different Gravemind. His appearance certainly does fit with the description of the Prisoner about being likened to a Eurypterid.

Just to back up the claim of Gravemind and the Prisoner being the same, there is irrefutable evidence.

Gravemind states in Human Weakeness that he has consumed many AIs but spared one who joined him, obviously referring to Mendicant Bias.

Primordium's description states that humans call the Prisoner "The Primordial", this is the same name Major John Smith uses to describe the Flood in The Mona Lisa.

The Prisoner is known as "the Timeless One", Gravemind describes himself as a "timeless chorus".

Gravemind states he has "listened - through rock and metal and time", the Prisoner listened to the humans and San'Shyuum at Charum Hakkor in his prison for a very long time.

The last words of the Gravemind is "resignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved... but you imposed." The latter part is referring to imprisonment, a sentence he never deserved. The PRISONER of Charum Hakkor, locked away for unknown reasons.

And the "child of my enemy" has already been pointed out referring to Ancient Humanity.

[Edited on 08.02.2011 6:00 AM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 6:00 AM PDT

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This is in response to just the "You ARE Forerunner" claim.

Keep in mind that the Librarian made many intense changes to our genetics, installing memories and the such, as we saw in Cryptum.

This is just speculation, but perhaps she feared the fall of the forerunner and left an imprint of Forerunner genetics on our own, or some sort. There's also talk that Riser and/or Chakas will be seen again, and that perhaps their genetic line will arise to be the special genetic traits Halsey selected to be apart of the Spartan program. These two may have special genetic markers that are uniquely "Forerunner," and 343GS was simply referring to John as being Forerunner, and not Humanity as a whole.

  • 08.02.2011 6:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
343 was rampant at the time he said this. If you read Cryptum you would have seen that the Gravemind may have been referring to ancient humanity when he referred to his enemy.

Master chief isn't a forerunner, nor are humanity the descendants of forerunners.


343 has never gone rampant it is his protocol to attack anything that threatens the ring.

and that last part isn't confirmed yet.

  • 08.02.2011 6:33 AM PDT


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
343 was rampant at the time he said this. If you read Cryptum you would have seen that the Gravemind may have been referring to ancient humanity when he referred to his enemy.

Master chief isn't a forerunner, nor are humanity the descendants of forerunners.


This^. Humans were more effective fighting the Flood than the Forerunners ever did. So much in fact that they were able to survive a 2 sided war against the flood and the forerunners. sure they were almost wiped out, but that would be pretty tough to survive.

Though my initial thought, when playing through Halo 2 and 3, was that humans were forerunners, I do believe that Bungie went with the idea that were are merely heirs. In Reach, a Bungie-made game(and I know many don't consider it canon, but Bungie made it and that's the point I'm making), Halsey say's "...Knowledge. A birth-right from an ancient civilization." leading me to believe that Bungie went with the latter idea.

I think Spark says this quote meaning that ancient humans were what forerunners should have been. They eventually see this on the advent of their destruction. Humans saw the threat of the flood, they even found a solution, but the forerunners were blind and merely wanted dominion over the mantle.

[Edited on 08.02.2011 10:31 AM PDT]

  • 08.02.2011 10:21 AM PDT

"On the seventh day, god did not rest, but rather he created 64 player multiplayer!"


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: CTN 0452 9
343 was rampant at the time he said this. If you read Cryptum you would have seen that the Gravemind may have been referring to ancient humanity when he referred to his enemy.

Master chief isn't a forerunner, nor are humanity the descendants of forerunners.


343 has never gone rampant it is his protocol to attack anything that threatens the ring.

and that last part isn't confirmed yet.


Yeah, I was just going to say... I don't think it's possible, or, at least, there is no history of a Forerunner AI becoming rampant. Human created AI's we KNOW have a limited lifespan but Forerunner AI, I doubt, have limits. They've survived for a VERY long time, after all...

  • 08.02.2011 10:24 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

The more I hear the "Child of my enemy" line the more I start to think the Precursors and the Flood had a thing long ago since the Precursors made both Humanity and Forerunners.

  • 08.02.2011 10:28 AM PDT