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Subject: Covenant Slipspace Speed
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Recently I have been told that the Covie ships are capable of traveling at speeds of over 912 lightyears per day. This makes me mad for several reasons and I will just list them off below in my rant. (This also builds off of some comebacks to this I've heard as well) So let's begin.

1: Makes the Covenant highly improbable.

Firstly, let us look at the galaxy, it is about 100000 light years in diameter with 200-400 billion stars, 50 billion planets, and 500 million planets that could potentially support life (numbers are approximate). With a FTL speed of 912 light years a day, the Covenant could traverse the diameter of the galaxy in 109.65 days. The chances of the Prophets encountering the Elites where slim too begin with. With these speeds, it's a miracle the Prophets found anyone at all. With a slower FTL speed, the discovery would have been more probable because the Prophets would have been forced to searched more planets due to their slower speed. The fact that they found 5 other species is a miracle in itself, the fact that they are stuck in the Orion Arm; ludicrous.

But wait, you say, the Covenant was plagued by internal conflicts and power struggles! This stopped them from spreading throughout the Milky Way! Okay, but the fact that in a week they could travel over 6000 light years still stands. As a matter of fact, I will come back to this point later.

2:Makes finding Humanity next to impossible.

Second of all, they found humanity. The chances of this is impossibly minuscule as I said. The whole war was the product of a chance encounter between a unmanned human freighter and a Jackal ship. Finding inhabited planets is slim enough, finding something that is barely the size of a cargo ship in the black is so unlikely that one could call it impossible. But the Covenant found it.

This next bit is important as I will come back to it later. Contact Harvest tells us that a human can travel the expanse of the human colonies in just over a year. I assumed that it would take 400 days because it is a nice, round number and helps keep the math a bit simpler. Human FTL is , I'm told, 2.8 light years a day. 400 days * 2.8 light years per day= 1120 light years. Humanity's plot of land is so small that the Covies could have accidentally jumped over it in a day-and-a-half.

The Covies don't know our speeds or the location of our worlds. The have no way of knowing if our next planet is 10 or a 1000 light years away. Once more, massive improbability rears it's ugly head.

3:Unyielding Hierophant

We all know Unyielding Hierophant but just incase, here's a quick reminder: Unyielding Hierophant was the staging area for a massive fleet that would travel to the Sol system after making several other pit stops. Covenant ships where regrouping from all over to participate in this gathering. This is the second problem: we don't know how long they were there, just that it was a while, quite possibly several days. This raises the question: where was everyone else? The fleets were regrouping and yet they where still waiting for other fleets to arrive. What gives? They can go over 900 light years a day but the still can't make a simple rendez-vous?

The entire fleet should have been there before MC and the gang arrived. I remember Cortana saying that they where even jumping to a nearby system to meet another large fleet. Once more, they can travel 912 light years in a day but they can't be bothered to jump a few systems over? The Covenant is prevented from expanding due to internal struggles remember? The whole lot of them should have been within a few hours worth of travel to the Hierophant.

4:Regret...Regret...Regret...

A major point in H2 was that Regret's fleet jumped the gun and attacked before everyone else could catch up. The "Regret...Regret..." was a cry for help. We know that the Covenant Battlenet is capable of FTL communications (Covenant version of the Domain?). The other fleets should have received that message and come to Regret's aid within hours. The other fleet that the Hierophant was to meet was untouched and within operational range of Earth. They should have arrived just after Regret called for help.

You could argue that Truth wanted Regret and Mercy dead and he refused to aid Regret in hopes that he would be killed. Truth is adept at backstabing. He of all people should know that a big battle is a dangerous place and anyone could be killed. He should have jumped in to "aid" Regret then have Regret's ship destroyed when it "accidentally flew in front of an Energy Projector" and then execute those "responsible for killing one of the Hierachs."

5:Alpha Halo's discovery.

Halos are big in the Covenant's religion too say the least. We know that the ships tracking the Autumn arrived early. Unless they were all holding idiot balls the sive of planets, they should have messaged everyone they knew that they just found the most important artifact in their religion.

The whole Covenant should have arrived there in the time it takes the Autumn to arrive because, remember, internal power struggles kept the Covenant enclosed in a small area. By the time the Chief gets to the Truth and Reconciliation, High Charity should have arrived with the whole fleet just behind it. John should have been attacked by the single largest gathering of Covenant forces before he even got to the control room (Though that means we wouldn't have to trek through the Library which would have been a plus).

6:Halo Reach.

*Long Night of Solace arrives and disables Visegrad*
*LNoS is told there are a bunch of demons here by the Zealot*
*LNoS sends message to the Prophets*
"Dear holy Hierachs, we have found an important human world. It is heavily fortified and there are several Demons as well as potential Forerunner relics. Unfortunately, we are outnumbered and could use some help taking out the massive human fleet."
*Fleet arrives before Tip of the Spear thanks to their massive FTL speeds*
*Thanks to the knowledge of Reach gathered by LNoS, they attack with a suitably large fleet*
*Reach falls, Six, Chief, Keyes, and everyone else dies*
*The End*
*Credits roll*

See how 912 light years per day is a problem?

7: Doesn't fit with everything else.

This is less fact and more personal opinion here, do bear with me as this is the end.

As far as sci-fi goes, Halo is a bit harder. They don't explain everything, sure, but they are still harder than most. If Halo gives you a number you can expect them to take it seriously. As such, most of Halo is rooted in reality, at least partially. Nothing is absolutely absurd. Except Covenant Slipspace technology. The Covenant is going 332880 times the speed of light, and that is so far beyond everything, non-forerunner, we have seen that it completely kills the mood for me.

I was fine when Cryptum was released. The things the Forerunners did never seemed too absurd because they are the sufficiently advanced alien! They are like Gods! The Covenant are not. They can't destroy planets, they can't makes stars go supernova! They are barely able to defeat humans! Despite this, they can still travel across the entire galaxy in 110 days.


Thank you for paying attention this long and indulging in my anger here. I just felt that this must be brought up.

/rant

  • 08.03.2011 10:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Did you get than from Rag and us talking about that in the cbox? the covenant destroyer travels that fast not ALL of their ships.

it doesn't matter anyway since they are based off forerunner tech.

  • 08.03.2011 10:29 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: grey101
Did you get than from Rag and us talking about that in the cbox? the covenant destroyer travels that fast not ALL of their ships.

it doesn't matter anyway since they are based off forerunner tech.

Yes, I'll admit it, I got some of it from you and Rag. The fact that the Destroyer can travel faster than all their ships still makes me wonder why they don't have a fleet of destroyers jumping in whenever something happens, like finding Halo.

Even though it is based off Forerunner tech, why is Slipspace so advanced when everything else is lagging so far behind? I have yet to see a Covenant ship come even close to the Forerunner's power.

  • 08.03.2011 10:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: grey101
Did you get than from Rag and us talking about that in the cbox? the covenant destroyer travels that fast not ALL of their ships.

it doesn't matter anyway since they are based off forerunner tech.

Yes, I'll admit it, I got some of it from you and Rag. The fact that the Destroyer can travel faster than all their ships still makes me wonder why they don't have a fleet of destroyers jumping in whenever something happens, like finding Halo.



Just like "If the covenant have hundreds of supercarriers that can take out 100 ships each why didn't they use them in the first place"?


stupid covenant stupid

  • 08.03.2011 10:42 AM PDT

"On the seventh day, god did not rest, but rather he created 64 player multiplayer!"

What grey said... Trying to explain flying at light speed and FTL speed is a dead end. It's based off Forerunner tech, which is so highly advanced that we can't even comprehend how it works, and that's the end of it. It COULD be possible for us some day, even though we, as humans, like to THINK we know all there is to know about it, it's possible for it to, right now, simply be beyond comprehension. Hell, I see articles posted all the time from astronomy sites about how they're revising theories about the Earth's atmosphere, or the inside of the Earth or why a certain species of tree is dieing off... We barely understand OURSELVES, our own planet, or our own moon...what reason is there to believe that we understand the limits of space travel?

As for the Covenant always being late to their own party, I'm not sure. I suppose we could assume that their entire fleet ISN'T all in one spot just waiting to be called for...they're probably out on individual missions, whether it be battles, or further exploration of the galaxy. As for discovering humanity, Elites, etc...chance, I suppose, is all we have to go on. The Covenant stumble upon ancient Forerunner worlds, and in their study of it all, simply follow the bread crumbs scattered throughout the galaxy.

  • 08.03.2011 10:49 AM PDT

Though, a point I must make. If that is the top speed of a Covenant Destroyer... Wouldn't the carriers and cruisers go just as fast, if not faster?

  • 08.03.2011 10:57 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Though, a point I must make. If that is the top speed of a Covenant Destroyer... Wouldn't the carriers and cruisers go just as fast, if not faster?

And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?

@Hydrilus: I know that the entire fleet will not be able to rapidly redeploy, but finding something like Halo definitely should be something they drop everything to see, just like having one of their religious leaders attacked.

  • 08.03.2011 11:02 AM PDT

I sware its all forunner tech theyve just adopted?

  • 08.03.2011 11:04 AM PDT
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im with you on this one gray 101

[Edited on 08.03.2011 11:20 AM PDT]

  • 08.03.2011 11:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

what we need to talk about is how the PoA travel Is how the PoA traveled 25,000 LY or something close to that in 2 weeks

  • 08.03.2011 11:24 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Xd00999
And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?


More mass to move, higher energy requirements.

And as far as "Why wouldn't they rush to where they need to be," you still have to receive the information that some place is under attack, make plans, and then jump.

Slipspace is not some sort of vacuum. There are currents and other odd effects that are encountered.

  • 08.03.2011 11:25 AM PDT


Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Xd00999
And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?


More mass to move, higher energy requirements.

And as far as "Why wouldn't they rush to where they need to be," you still have to receive the information that some place is under attack, make plans, and then jump.

Slipspace is not some sort of vacuum. There are currents and other odd effects that are encountered.


I've only heard of two 'effects' A: The time-slipspace distorting crystal.
B: Entering slipspace in the wake of a faster ship. This causes your ship to go much faster then it would normally.

  • 08.03.2011 11:35 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Xd00999
And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?


More mass to move, higher energy requirements.

And as far as "Why wouldn't they rush to where they need to be," you still have to receive the information that some place is under attack, make plans, and then jump.

Slipspace is not some sort of vacuum. There are currents and other odd effects that are encountered.


I've only heard of two 'effects' A: The time-slipspace distorting crystal.
B: Entering slipspace in the wake of a faster ship. This causes your ship to go much faster then it would normally.



Halsey mentioned in First Strike (when the effects of the crystal were observed) that there are slipspace "tides" or something of the sort.

Also in Cryptum, it's mentioned that the amount of mass entering/leaving slipspace can have drastic effects.

  • 08.03.2011 11:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Xd00999
And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?


More mass to move, higher energy requirements.

And as far as "Why wouldn't they rush to where they need to be," you still have to receive the information that some place is under attack, make plans, and then jump.

Slipspace is not some sort of vacuum. There are currents and other odd effects that are encountered.


I've only heard of two 'effects' A: The time-slipspace distorting crystal.
B: Entering slipspace in the wake of a faster ship. This causes your ship to go much faster then it would normally.



Halsey mentioned in First Strike (when the effects of the crystal were observed) that there are slipspace "tides" or something of the sort.

Also in Cryptum, it's mentioned that the amount of mass entering/leaving slipspace can have drastic effects.


The crystal isn't relevant and they huge objects were halo's and the ark.

High charity is big but it still doesn't come close to those.

  • 08.03.2011 11:39 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: grey101
The crystal isn't relevant and they huge objects were halo's and the ark.

High charity is big but it still doesn't come close to those.


Do you know what the definition of speculation is?

If I can provide evidence that disproves all slipspace travel being uniform and equal, then I don't need to explain why they aren't uniform and equal.

  • 08.03.2011 11:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: grey101
The crystal isn't relevant and they huge objects were halo's and the ark.

High charity is big but it still doesn't come close to those.


Do you know what the definition of speculation is?

If I can provide evidence that disproves all slipspace travel being uniform and equal, then I don't need to explain why they aren't uniform and equal.


the crystal was only used for a limited time and didn't affect ALL slipspace travel.

  • 08.03.2011 11:45 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

What's the source on the 912Ly/day speed please?

  • 08.03.2011 11:47 AM PDT

General of The Irish Punks

Most of the planets they found had forerunner tech on it and they somehow managed to track those kind of things. Probably through records and the like.

I believe Regret "accidentally" found Earth and it was completely unintentional on Regret's part.

  • 08.03.2011 11:51 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: grey101
The crystal isn't relevant and they huge objects were halo's and the ark.

High charity is big but it still doesn't come close to those.


Do you know what the definition of speculation is?

If I can provide evidence that disproves all slipspace travel being uniform and equal, then I don't need to explain why they aren't uniform and equal.


the crystal was only used for a limited time and didn't affect ALL slipspace travel.


What's your point? I never said the crystal was affecting anything. You mentioned the crystal, and I took the opportunity to mention that the slipspace tides, currents or eddies where mentioned around the same time as when the effects of the crystal were being discussed within First Strike.

Anything else you need me to explain that I didn't bring up in the first place?

  • 08.03.2011 11:53 AM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Xd00999
And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?


More mass to move, higher energy requirements.

And as far as "Why wouldn't they rush to where they need to be," you still have to receive the information that some place is under attack, make plans, and then jump.

Slipspace is not some sort of vacuum. There are currents and other odd effects that are encountered.

So Is there any chance covie frigates could go faster, since there much smaller then a destroyer.

  • 08.03.2011 12:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ferrrari

Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Xd00999
And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?


More mass to move, higher energy requirements.

And as far as "Why wouldn't they rush to where they need to be," you still have to receive the information that some place is under attack, make plans, and then jump.

Slipspace is not some sort of vacuum. There are currents and other odd effects that are encountered.

So Is there any chance covie frigates could go faster, since there much smaller then a destroyer.

Hell yea

  • 08.03.2011 12:22 PM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ferrrari

Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Xd00999
And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?


More mass to move, higher energy requirements.

And as far as "Why wouldn't they rush to where they need to be," you still have to receive the information that some place is under attack, make plans, and then jump.

Slipspace is not some sort of vacuum. There are currents and other odd effects that are encountered.

So Is there any chance covie frigates could go faster, since there much smaller then a destroyer.

Hell yea

And a corvette?

  • 08.03.2011 12:23 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Fin5434p
What's the source on the 912Ly/day speed please?

GoO, while Blue Team is traveling to Onyx I believe. That is what I was told, and unfortunately, I have been unable to confirm myself, but I trust the source.

[Edited on 08.03.2011 12:39 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2011 12:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Fin5434p
What's the source on the 912Ly/day speed please?

GoO, while Blue Team is traveling to Onyx I believe. That is what I was told, and unfortunately, I have been unable to confirm myself, but I trust the source.


which was done under 45 mins.

  • 08.03.2011 12:41 PM PDT

"There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe."
Gospel of John, 1:1-7


Posted by: ferrrari

And a corvette?

Well the problem might be that frigates and corvettes wouldn't have enough power for such slipspace speeds. Maybe that's why the destroyer is the fastest, the right combo of power and mass.

  • 08.03.2011 12:44 PM PDT

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