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Subject: Covenant Slipspace Speed
  • gamertag: Fin
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

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Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Fin5434p
What's the source on the 912Ly/day speed please?

GoO, while Blue Team is traveling to Onyx I believe. That is what I was told, and unfortunately, I have been unable to confirm myself, but I trust the source.


Fair enough, thank you. It does seem surprisingly quick.

  • 08.03.2011 12:45 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Fin5434p

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Fin5434p
What's the source on the 912Ly/day speed please?

GoO, while Blue Team is traveling to Onyx I believe. That is what I was told, and unfortunately, I have been unable to confirm myself, but I trust the source.


Fair enough, thank you. It does seem surprisingly quick.

Which is the whole reason I made this thread. I personally hope it was just a typo that slipped under the radar.

  • 08.03.2011 12:47 PM PDT


Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: grey101
The crystal isn't relevant and they huge objects were halo's and the ark.

High charity is big but it still doesn't come close to those.


Do you know what the definition of speculation is?

If I can provide evidence that disproves all slipspace travel being uniform and equal, then I don't need to explain why they aren't uniform and equal.


As grey said, all you did was prove super-massive objects (Halos and such) affect slipspace. Normal Ships wouldn't have that effect.

  • 08.03.2011 1:01 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Xd00999
And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?


More mass to move, higher energy requirements.

And as far as "Why wouldn't they rush to where they need to be," you still have to receive the information that some place is under attack, make plans, and then jump.

Slipspace is not some sort of vacuum. There are currents and other odd effects that are encountered.


There are currents in slipspace but we never heard of them causing any major effects on ships.

They still should have rushed to Alpha Halo. When Regret found the second one, they wasted no time booking it there and would have killed the Chief if it where not for the fact that the Elites rebelled.

  • 08.03.2011 1:11 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I do not take these estimates seriously, because essentially ships travel at the speed of plot. If they need to get there quickly, then they will do so. If we need to make the journey last longer so that we can fit more plot in, then they will go slower.

Authors are likely not thinking of the collateral implications throughout the rest of the fiction's Universe when they construct such timescales for travels to be completed in. Therefore I do not think they can be viewed as an entirely accurate representation of a factions abilities across the board. Unless we are given a solid number, stated explicitly, then I do not think that we can be sure.

However, for people saying that internal strife would prevent the Covenant from spreading all over the galaxy, why didn't that stop the UNSC's expansion? Relatively speaking, the UNSC's space in the Orion arm will appear larger to them than the entire galaxy will to the Covenant due to the UNSC's apparently abysmal FTL speeds, and the Covenant's apparently ultra fast FTL. Yet in this case, the UNSC continued on expanding substantially with the Insurrection biting at its ankles.

  • 08.03.2011 1:45 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?

About destroywer being fastest ship and others being slower, I'd say even half that speed (456 LY/day) would be ridiculously fast.

  • 08.03.2011 2:00 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: anton1792
I do not take these estimates seriously, because essentially ships travel at the speed of plot. If they need to get there quickly, then they will do so. If we need to make the journey last longer so that we can fit more plot in, then they will go slower.

Authors are likely not thinking of the collateral implications throughout the rest of the fiction's Universe when they construct such timescales for travels to be completed in. Therefore I do not think they can be viewed as an entirely accurate representation of a factions abilities across the board. Unless we are given a solid number, stated explicitly, then I do not think that we can be sure.

However, for people saying that internal strife would prevent the Covenant from spreading all over the galaxy, why didn't that stop the UNSC's expansion? Relatively speaking, the UNSC's space in the Orion arm will appear larger to them than the entire galaxy will to the Covenant due to the UNSC's apparently abysmal FTL speeds, and the Covenant's apparently ultra fast FTL. Yet in this case, the UNSC continued on expanding substantially with the Insurrection biting at its ankles.


Speed of Plot is a horrible excuse, in my honest opinion. I hoped that Halo was better at this, avoiding the whole speed of plot dilemma. The authors obviously do care about far reaching implications, as shown when they retconned glassing to stop the Covenant from being unbeatable in space. Halo has been very consistent (up until Reach) and if they give us a number I except them to stick with it, for better or for worse.

I completely agree with the second point as well. If we could do it, why not them?

  • 08.03.2011 2:51 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Xd00999
And that is part of the problem. If destroyers can do it, why not supercarriers?


More mass to move, higher energy requirements.

And as far as "Why wouldn't they rush to where they need to be," you still have to receive the information that some place is under attack, make plans, and then jump.

Slipspace is not some sort of vacuum. There are currents and other odd effects that are encountered.


I've only heard of two 'effects' A: The time-slipspace distorting crystal.
B: Entering slipspace in the wake of a faster ship. This causes your ship to go much faster then it would normally.



The UNSC has monitoring stations that provide slipspace "weather reports", telling ships whether or not its too dangerous to ener the stream. Such "tides" could cause people to vanish instantly for no reason or even entire ships.

Though thats the UNSC, don't know if it affects the Covies.

  • 08.03.2011 3:01 PM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: anton1792
I do not take these estimates seriously, because essentially ships travel at the speed of plot. If they need to get there quickly, then they will do so. If we need to make the journey last longer so that we can fit more plot in, then they will go slower.

Authors are likely not thinking of the collateral implications throughout the rest of the fiction's Universe when they construct such timescales for travels to be completed in. Therefore I do not think they can be viewed as an entirely accurate representation of a factions abilities across the board. Unless we are given a solid number, stated explicitly, then I do not think that we can be sure.

However, for people saying that internal strife would prevent the Covenant from spreading all over the galaxy, why didn't that stop the UNSC's expansion? Relatively speaking, the UNSC's space in the Orion arm will appear larger to them than the entire galaxy will to the Covenant due to the UNSC's apparently abysmal FTL speeds, and the Covenant's apparently ultra fast FTL. Yet in this case, the UNSC continued on expanding substantially with the Insurrection biting at its ankles.


Speed of Plot is a horrible excuse, in my honest opinion. I hoped that Halo was better at this, avoiding the whole speed of plot dilemma. The authors obviously do care about far reaching implications, as shown when they retconned glassing to stop the Covenant from being unbeatable in space. Halo has been very consistent (up until Reach) and if they give us a number I except them to stick with it, for better or for worse.

I completely agree with the second point as well. If we could do it, why not them?


I believe the official reasoning an author would give you is time dialation, since the UNSC at least struggles to keep up with the odd effects it has on time, unless there is an AI present.

And did you by any chance read the list of reasons I gave on why glassing was not retconned?

  • 08.03.2011 3:04 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
And did you by any chance read the list of reasons I gave on why glassing was not retconned?


Did you, by any chance, read the replies to that list of why your reasons weren't solid?

  • 08.03.2011 3:14 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

I think I will just PM you the long thread Anton has on the subject, because glassing has been retconned.

  • 08.03.2011 3:16 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Xd00999
Speed of Plot is a horrible excuse, in my honest opinion. I hoped that Halo was better at this, avoiding the whole speed of plot dilemma. The authors obviously do care about far reaching implications, as shown when they retconned glassing to stop the Covenant from being unbeatable in space. Halo has been very consistent (up until Reach) and if they give us a number I except them to stick with it, for better or for worse.

I thought that Halo was, but it is really not. At this point the Halo trilogy is overwriting much of its established themes, and I am personally losing interest because of it. Glassing was something thought up with no far reaching implications: "Why are Covenant shields and weapons so weak?" Eric Nylund does not necessarily write with far reaching implications in mind though.

Greg Bear and his Precursor interplanetary bridges, as an example, make no sense at all either. Such planets would be inhospitable from being tidally locked from that. And then there are the Elites as well. A single Elite on his own is for some reason a big deal, yet in groups they are killed so easily. There are more I could state, but basically Halo's story has no foundation anymore I think. It is essentially what you want it to be at this point.

  • 08.03.2011 3:25 PM PDT

I don't think that speed is accurate

  • 08.03.2011 3:32 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Xd00999
Speed of Plot is a horrible excuse, in my honest opinion. I hoped that Halo was better at this, avoiding the whole speed of plot dilemma. The authors obviously do care about far reaching implications, as shown when they retconned glassing to stop the Covenant from being unbeatable in space. Halo has been very consistent (up until Reach) and if they give us a number I except them to stick with it, for better or for worse.

I thought that Halo was, but it is really not. At this point the Halo trilogy is overwriting much of its established themes, and I am personally losing interest because of it. Glassing was something thought up with no far reaching implications: "Why are Covenant shields and weapons so weak?" Eric Nylund does not necessarily write with far reaching implications in mind though.

Greg Bear and his Precursor interplanetary bridges, as an example, make no sense at all either. Such planets would be inhospitable from being tidally locked from that. And then there are the Elites as well. A single Elite on his own is for some reason a big deal, yet in groups they are killed so easily. There are more I could state, but basically Halo's story has no foundation anymore I think. It is essentially what you want it to be at this point.

Which is a true shame. I hope that the series goes back to it's roots with Halo 4, 5, and 6, but at this point it seems to be losing some of it's way. I can't answer any of the points you raised except for the Elite one which is easily explained here.

  • 08.03.2011 3:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: darkvile96
I don't think that speed is accurate


Uh it is. Because it's based off Forerunner technology and I calculated the light years per day for Covies based from Ghosts of Onyx, page 221.

So I think it's safe to assume that Covies can travel up to 912 light years per day, due to their better understanding of slip space technology.

Also, I found a problem: how did PoA arrive to Halo ring (Installation 04) in two weeks if it was 25,000 light years away? With FTL speeds of 2.8 per day, it would take 8,000 days. I think UNSC's maximum FTL speed is more than 2.8...

  • 08.03.2011 3:47 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
And did you by any chance read the list of reasons I gave on why glassing was not retconned?


Did you, by any chance, read the replies to that list of why your reasons weren't solid?


No, I had to go out for the night and the thread was dead by the time I came back online. Can someone repost it, or tell me what it was? The discussion I was PMed isn't talking about glassing, or why it was retconned.

  • 08.03.2011 3:54 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: darkvile96
I don't think that speed is accurate


Uh it is. Because it's based off Forerunner technology and I calculated the light years per day for Covies based from Ghosts of Onyx, page 221.

So I think it's safe to assume that Covies can travel up to 912 light years per day, due to their better understanding of slip space technology.

Also, I found a problem: how did PoA arrive to Halo ring (Installation 04) in two weeks if it was 25,000 light years away? With FTL speeds of 2.8 per day, it would take 8,000 days. I think UNSC's maximum FTL speed is more than 2.8...


If 04 was 25,000 light years away and the PoA arrived in 14 days, then they travelled 1785.71 light years per day which just rips an even bigger hole in canon.

  • 08.03.2011 4:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: darkvile96
I don't think that speed is accurate


Uh it is. Because it's based off Forerunner technology and I calculated the light years per day for Covies based from Ghosts of Onyx, page 221.

So I think it's safe to assume that Covies can travel up to 912 light years per day, due to their better understanding of slip space technology.

Also, I found a problem: how did PoA arrive to Halo ring (Installation 04) in two weeks if it was 25,000 light years away? With FTL speeds of 2.8 per day, it would take 8,000 days. I think UNSC's maximum FTL speed is more than 2.8...


If 04 was 25,000 light years away and the PoA arrived in 14 days, then they travelled 1785.71 light years per day which just rips an even bigger hole in canon.


Yeah that's my problem as well.

To be logical for all halos to kill off the entire galaxy, and seeing that range of fire is 25,000 light years, each halo rings in each section would have to be 25,000 light year away from center of galaxy as range of fire (25,000 LY) touches the center, thus covering entire galaxy. It's pretty logical to see that rings are 25,000 light years away from center.

It means that writers misunderstood scale or did not do math or mis understood about UNSC's FTL speeds or whatever.

  • 08.03.2011 4:09 PM PDT
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Also, I found a problem: how did PoA arrive to Halo ring (Installation 04) in two weeks if it was 25,000 light years away? With FTL speeds of 2.8 per day, it would take 8,000 days. I think UNSC's maximum FTL speed is more than 2.8...

What says Alpha Halo was 25,000 ly away?

I still think Iota Horologii is the most likely location of Alpha Halo.

[Edited on 08.03.2011 4:16 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2011 4:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: opogjijijp
Also, I found a problem: how did PoA arrive to Halo ring (Installation 04) in two weeks if it was 25,000 light years away? With FTL speeds of 2.8 per day, it would take 8,000 days. I think UNSC's maximum FTL speed is more than 2.8...

What says Alpha Halo was 25,000 ly away?


read my recent posts.

  • 08.03.2011 4:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: opogjijijp
Also, I found a problem: how did PoA arrive to Halo ring (Installation 04) in two weeks if it was 25,000 light years away? With FTL speeds of 2.8 per day, it would take 8,000 days. I think UNSC's maximum FTL speed is more than 2.8...

What says Alpha Halo was 25,000 ly away?


read my recent posts.


That doesn't explain why you think it's 25,000 ly away from Earth. Earth is ~25,000 light years from the center already.

  • 08.03.2011 4:18 PM PDT

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  • 08.03.2011 4:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Xd00999
Firstly, let us look at the galaxy, it is about 100000 light years in diameter with 200-400 billion stars, 50 billion planets, and 500 million planets that could potentially support life (numbers are approximate). With a FTL speed of 912 light years a day, the Covenant could traverse the diameter of the galaxy in 109.65 days. The chances of the Prophets encountering the Elites where slim too begin with. With these speeds, it's a miracle the Prophets found anyone at all. With a slower FTL speed, the discovery would have been more probable because the Prophets would have been forced to searched more planets due to their slower speed. The fact that they found 5 other species is a miracle in itself, the fact that they are stuck in the Orion Arm; ludicrous.

First off, there are about 10^11 stars in the galaxy. It is thought that approximately 10%-15% of these have planetary systems. It IS NOT a coincidence that the prophets found Sanghelios; it IS a coincidence that they found the Sangheili. The Luminaries (?) located forerunner artifacts. These were found on all the species' homeworlds. Humans appeared as forerunner machines. Have you read Contact Harvest? You should; it's a good book.

  • 08.03.2011 5:01 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: n008c4k

Posted by: Xd00999
Firstly, let us look at the galaxy, it is about 100000 light years in diameter with 200-400 billion stars, 50 billion planets, and 500 million planets that could potentially support life (numbers are approximate). With a FTL speed of 912 light years a day, the Covenant could traverse the diameter of the galaxy in 109.65 days. The chances of the Prophets encountering the Elites where slim too begin with. With these speeds, it's a miracle the Prophets found anyone at all. With a slower FTL speed, the discovery would have been more probable because the Prophets would have been forced to searched more planets due to their slower speed. The fact that they found 5 other species is a miracle in itself, the fact that they are stuck in the Orion Arm; ludicrous.

First off, there are about 10^11 stars in the galaxy. It is thought that approximately 10%-15% of these have planetary systems. It IS NOT a coincidence that the prophets found Sanghelios; it IS a coincidence that they found the Sangheili. The Luminaries (?) located forerunner artifacts. These were found on all the species' homeworlds. Humans appeared as forerunner machines. Have you read Contact Harvest? You should; it's a good book.


um he has read that book

  • 08.03.2011 5:05 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: n008c4k

Posted by: Xd00999
Firstly, let us look at the galaxy, it is about 100000 light years in diameter with 200-400 billion stars, 50 billion planets, and 500 million planets that could potentially support life (numbers are approximate). With a FTL speed of 912 light years a day, the Covenant could traverse the diameter of the galaxy in 109.65 days. The chances of the Prophets encountering the Elites where slim too begin with. With these speeds, it's a miracle the Prophets found anyone at all. With a slower FTL speed, the discovery would have been more probable because the Prophets would have been forced to searched more planets due to their slower speed. The fact that they found 5 other species is a miracle in itself, the fact that they are stuck in the Orion Arm; ludicrous.

First off, there are about 10^11 stars in the galaxy. It is thought that approximately 10%-15% of these have planetary systems. It IS NOT a coincidence that the prophets found Sanghelios; it IS a coincidence that they found the Sangheili. The Luminaries (?) located forerunner artifacts. These were found on all the species' homeworlds. Humans appeared as forerunner machines. Have you read Contact Harvest? You should; it's a good book.

-_-
I mentioned it in the next post and used info from it in another. That book was also one of my key references when making this post. Just FYI. I read the book several times. The luminaries are never said to have a range beyond a solar system. This shown when they are unable to locate Harvest on the Transgression's luminary when they first find the freighter.

  • 08.03.2011 5:10 PM PDT

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