Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...
  • Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...
Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

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Suck it JoeSki!!!

Posted by: Oddley765
Sales figures...

Bungie rate their own success not by xbox live population but by sales figures.

Reach sold very solid numbers and made a sweet profit. The map packs also made a sweet profit.

Sure xbox live numbers have dwindled after that but overall in the eyes of a company Reach game sales and add-ons sales are still massively successful.

Just look at the numbers.

I agree the trend of huge sales and disappointed players eventually equals the franchise being abandoned. However well all know we'll all try the next halo game.


I don't think you're right either.

Bungie is an independent game developer. The only metric they've displayed relating to how they percieve success is how the feel about the game after it ships. Myth II and Halo 2 were games that cause a lot of frustrations, and they were the only percieved failures explained in the Vidoc.

People need to get over the "tehyre a bizness tehy onlee carez ubout the moneez!" For most publicly traded companies, yes, income and profits are a key metric they need to satisfy the owners of their company, investors. Now, who owns Bungie? Bungie does. The only folks they need to satisfy with their business is themselves. And ironically enough, they make games they want to play. Fantastic goal alignment, IMO.

  • 08.09.2011 6:34 AM PDT

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ev1l tr1t0n, you get +1.

I completely agree with the OP, when they kept praising Halo: Reach it threw me for a loop! It appeared like they never acnowledged it's failure. The drop in XBL players is proof enough.

Although on the other hand how will 343i do with Halo? Will they drive it into the ground or make it better?

[Edited on 08.09.2011 6:40 AM PDT]

  • 08.09.2011 6:39 AM PDT

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I think the reason that they dont want to call Reach a failure is because it still sells, unlike Halo 2.

  • 08.09.2011 8:12 AM PDT


Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.


I agree. They did mention at the end about learning from mistakes that we don't know about (or something like that) that's the only thing that I can see that might saying Reach has it's problems.

  • 08.09.2011 8:23 AM PDT
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I heard someone say once (paraphrasing here) "Multiflag on Blood Gulch with your friends is what makes Halo, Halo." I GUARANTEE that more people agree with that sentiment than "Getting a 50 in MLG is what makes Halo, Halo." - Oboewan42
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Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: LonE ZealoT
Explain to us the logic in badmouthing their final Halo creation in their final Bungie-Halo ViDoc.


Its not about badmouthing their own creation. Its about their perception of success and failure. They accomplished what they wanted with both the process and end product. Halo 2 was a failure because the process and end product was not what they wanted. The perceived failure of Reach is up to each person to decide for their own. But to think Bungie must accept failure because you feel it is failure is both arrogant and foolish.


And I'm completely aware of this. The fact is there are people here that feel as if they're owed something, which is bull-blam!-. A decade of quality games from a Dev I've never seen any other match in their chill attitude and community involvement and who created so a memorable universe does not owe us.

  • 08.09.2011 8:41 AM PDT

Want to see advanced Halo stats not offered by other Halo stat websites? Check out MetaHalo.com, the stats website I am working on. Reach stats currently in development.

Like BTB? Check out bigteambattle.net!


Posted by: LonE ZealoT

Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.


Explain to us the logic in badmouthing their final Halo creation in their final Bungie-Halo ViDoc.


I'm badmouthing it? That's news to me.

  • 08.09.2011 9:00 AM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

DEATHPIMP72: *throws pterodactyl on table*
Suck it JoeSki!!!

Posted by: LonE ZealoT
And I'm completely aware of this. The fact is there are people here that feel as if they're owed something, which is bull-blam!-. A decade of quality games from a Dev I've never seen any other match in their chill attitude and community involvement and who created so a memorable universe does not owe us.


Right. Its consumer entitlement. Which is bogus, but a sense that more and more people feel, especially with the rising generation. I don't give it credence, and its a waste to try to convince someone of the feeling otherwise.

  • 08.09.2011 9:28 AM PDT

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Well Reach, to a developers stander, was a great success. Bungie really didn't address the issues because they probably felt like it wasn't needed within the ViDoc.
Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.

  • 08.09.2011 9:41 AM PDT

"We all know how stupid the average person is. Now realize that, by definition, half the population is dumber than that." - Ivan Stang


Posted by: LonE ZealoT
A decade of quality games from a Dev I've never seen any other match in their chill attitude and community involvement and who created so a memorable universe does not owe us.


You must not play many PC games.

  • 08.09.2011 9:44 AM PDT

Want to see advanced Halo stats not offered by other Halo stat websites? Check out MetaHalo.com, the stats website I am working on. Reach stats currently in development.

Like BTB? Check out bigteambattle.net!


Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n

Posted by: LonE ZealoT

Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.


Explain to us the logic in badmouthing their final Halo creation in their final Bungie-Halo ViDoc.


I'm badmouthing it? That's news to me.


My bad Lone Zealot, I read your post wrong. I agree, it wouldn't be logical to badmouth Reach in that ViDoc. However... you don't have to badmouth something to be critical or admit mistakes.


Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: LonE ZealoT
And I'm completely aware of this. The fact is there are people here that feel as if they're owed something, which is bull-blam!-. A decade of quality games from a Dev I've never seen any other match in their chill attitude and community involvement and who created so a memorable universe does not owe us.


Right. Its consumer entitlement. Which is bogus, but a sense that more and more people feel, especially with the rising generation. I don't give it credence, and its a waste to try to convince someone of the feeling otherwise.


Some of us are just frustrated with the way Bungie handled problems with the core elements of Reach, especially multiplayer. Other than a very obscure hint or two, they have remained absolutely silent since the release of Reach. They essentially left a mess on the floor and ignored it until someone else came along to clean it up.

[Edited on 08.09.2011 10:03 AM PDT]

  • 08.09.2011 9:48 AM PDT

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Its the first Halo game to have campaign, forge, firefight, matchmaking and community content into one game, plus they got to add things they didn't make the cut in prior Halo games. I think becuase of this they think, I do believe as well, it is the ultimate Halo game.

Yes the game has its faults, but so did other great games as well. Theres no perfect game, and they know this, but I think they praise Reach becuase of all the things they could do with it that they couldn't do in other Halo Games.

  • 08.09.2011 1:26 PM PDT

Im Canadian Eh!

It's good that they are moving on to more of a MMO type game. But leaving 343 behind to butcher the Halo title is just not right. If Halo 4 flops, which what I can tell right now It might. It will actually hurt bungie as well.

  • 08.09.2011 2:04 PM PDT


Posted by: ElementL09
Its the first Halo game to have campaign, forge, firefight, matchmaking and community content into one game, plus they got to add things they didn't make the cut in prior Halo games. I think becuase of this they think, I do believe as well, it is the ultimate Halo game.

Yes the game has its faults, but so did other great games as well. Theres no perfect game, and they know this, but I think they praise Reach becuase of all the things they could do with it that they couldn't do in other Halo Games.



I personally feel that a sequel to a game should improve and add more content to what was already a solid game. Reach removed more then it added which led to the dissatisfaction of this game and I'm sure many others feel the same way as I do.
For Instance,
- Forge friendly maps have become nothing more then a memory. Bungie's Forge World is nothing if you can't spawn moveable objects which were essential in Halo 3's forge mode.
- No need for creating new maps when you can simply "forge" them. This was no substitute for the small amount of maps shipped with reach.
- Removal of dual wielding and weapons we've grown accustom too in Halo 3. The SMG, Battle Rifle, Beam Rifle, Mauler, and Brute Shot would have been fantastic for custom games as would the vehicles cut from Reach as-well. Even powerups would have been fantastic!
- Game-modes being broken and not included also seemed to detract from the main experience.

In my opinion Reach removed to much then it included which inturn led to my disappointment with he game.

  • 08.09.2011 2:37 PM PDT
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I heard someone say once (paraphrasing here) "Multiflag on Blood Gulch with your friends is what makes Halo, Halo." I GUARANTEE that more people agree with that sentiment than "Getting a 50 in MLG is what makes Halo, Halo." - Oboewan42
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Posted by: Dreidelveis

Posted by: LonE ZealoT
A decade of quality games from a Dev I've never seen any other match in their chill attitude and community involvement and who created so a memorable universe does not owe us.


You must not play many PC games.


I tend to keep console and PC gaming separate in mind.

  • 08.09.2011 7:23 PM PDT
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I heard someone say once (paraphrasing here) "Multiflag on Blood Gulch with your friends is what makes Halo, Halo." I GUARANTEE that more people agree with that sentiment than "Getting a 50 in MLG is what makes Halo, Halo." - Oboewan42
Meta | NHL | Kotor


Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n

Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n

Posted by: LonE ZealoT

Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.


Explain to us the logic in badmouthing their final Halo creation in their final Bungie-Halo ViDoc.


I'm badmouthing it? That's news to me.


My bad Lone Zealot, I read your post wrong. I agree, it wouldn't be logical to badmouth Reach in that ViDoc. However... you don't have to badmouth something to be critical or admit mistakes.


I don't feel it's necessary for them to admit to mistakes. The transition from Halo 2 to Reach has seen what, over a dozen changes to mistakes made, but also mistakes which required no admittance.

It should be enough that change gets done, not for the community to bask in an "I told you so" attitude.

  • 08.09.2011 7:25 PM PDT

My other car is a hummer...

What the hell is a puma?

It would seem too soon for them to admit the mistakes of Reach as they want to have the game to keep riding the success it has right now.

As far as the cannon goes, stories don't always have to match as long as it's consistent. Think of Halo as a modern Beowulf and constantly evolving -the end result of that story after being retold for years barely resembles what it first began as, but it's still a great story.

  • 08.10.2011 1:05 AM PDT

Want to see advanced Halo stats not offered by other Halo stat websites? Check out MetaHalo.com, the stats website I am working on. Reach stats currently in development.

Like BTB? Check out bigteambattle.net!

There's nothing wrong with admitting mistakes... otherwise title updates would never come out.

  • 08.10.2011 8:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: ev1l tr1t0

I'm badmouthing it? That's news to me.


He was referring to Bungie. They are the subject. Not you.

  • 08.10.2011 8:41 PM PDT


Posted by: FourKILLMASTER
- Forge friendly maps have become nothing more then a memory. Bungie's Forge World is nothing if you can't spawn moveable objects which were essential in Halo 3's forge mode.

I agree.
Posted by: FourKILLMASTER
- No need for creating new maps when you can simply "forge" them. This was no substitute for the small amount of maps shipped with reach.

They were created to showcase the power of Forge 2.0, but they should have had one or two more actual maps - if I recall, some of the Noble Maps (tempest for sure) were cut in favor of forge maps, and then released as DLC.
Posted by: FourKILLMASTER
- Removal of dual wielding and weapons we've grown accustom too in Halo 3. The SMG, Battle Rifle, Beam Rifle, Mauler, and Brute Shot would have been fantastic for custom games as would the vehicles cut from Reach as-well. Even powerups would have been fantastic!

You play as a SPARTAN-III in Reach, and not a SPARTAN-II. Therefore, you can't do all of the same things as a SPARTAN-II, like dual wielding. It would have been nice, though. If you mean pick-up powerups like Overshield, Active Camo, and Custom Powerups, you can place them in forge, they're just not on the default maps. I believe they should be in palylists without Armor Lock and Active Camo AAs, like Arena.
Posted by: FourKILLMASTER
- Game-modes being broken and not included also seemed to detract from the main experience.

I don't see how they're broken. I don't like Armor Lock myself, but I don't complain about it and think it ruins the game. When 343 gives the TU, you can be happy.
Posted by: FourKILLMASTER
In my opinion Reach removed to much then it included which inturn led to my disappointment with he game.

It actually added a lot, and brought back previous elements, such as Health from Halo 1/ODST. Armor Abilities are new, Forge 2.0 is an improvement, etc.

It's the ultimate Halo Game, but nothing's for everyone. It could be done better. It's in 343's hands now, though.

  • 08.10.2011 9:00 PM PDT


Posted by: j7holdfastjack7
May i first applaud your calm, calculated, contextual criticism of Bungie's development of Reach.

Hear is the situation as i see it.

Halo 3 should have been the final Halo. MC's storyline was finished and locked in. One last offshoot with ODST, then cool.

But Reach really shouldnt exist. It doesnt fit. Bungie really wouldnt have made it in a perfect world. Just contractually obligated to make another triple A Halo title. So since they had too make it. They decided to make it new and itch those creative spots that have been begging to let loose. So it doesnt fit with the other Halo's because its the one that shouldnt be there.

Also Halo 4 has already ruined Halo for me just by the mere fact that it exists. Halo 3 finished it. I understand MS is a company that needs to make money, but its exploitation to stretch this franchise farther. There is just NO WHERE to go with Halo.
On the contrary, did you not read the terminals? Halo 1-3 were simply the beginning.

[Edited on 08.10.2011 9:05 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2011 9:05 PM PDT


Posted by: FourKILLMASTER

Posted by: ElementL09
Its the first Halo game to have campaign, forge, firefight, matchmaking and community content into one game, plus they got to add things they didn't make the cut in prior Halo games. I think becuase of this they think, I do believe as well, it is the ultimate Halo game.

Yes the game has its faults, but so did other great games as well. Theres no perfect game, and they know this, but I think they praise Reach becuase of all the things they could do with it that they couldn't do in other Halo Games.



I personally feel that a sequel to a game should improve and add more content to what was already a solid game. Reach removed more then it added which led to the dissatisfaction of this game and I'm sure many others feel the same way as I do.
For Instance,
- Forge friendly maps have become nothing more then a memory. Bungie's Forge World is nothing if you can't spawn moveable objects which were essential in Halo 3's forge mode.
- No need for creating new maps when you can simply "forge" them. This was no substitute for the small amount of maps shipped with reach.
- Removal of dual wielding and weapons we've grown accustom too in Halo 3. The SMG, Battle Rifle, Beam Rifle, Mauler, and Brute Shot would have been fantastic for custom games as would the vehicles cut from Reach as-well. Even powerups would have been fantastic!
- Game-modes being broken and not included also seemed to detract from the main experience.

In my opinion Reach removed to much then it included which inturn led to my disappointment with he game.
Reach was a prequel not a SEQUEL. Some things had to be removed.

  • 08.10.2011 9:07 PM PDT


Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.


I agree with you completely 100% It is a fantastic game on paper, but turned out only to be a good game. Reach being a good game doesn't not cut it when the previous titles have been fantastic. For the first time, I am disappointed in Bungie, especially for ignoring their obvious faults

  • 08.10.2011 9:17 PM PDT

SRK

Well, Bungie wanted to send the Halo franchise out with the hugest most badass bang possible, and Reach was that bang. I doubt Bungie would want to criticize their send-off to such a revolutionary series, right?

  • 08.10.2011 11:45 PM PDT

People should still give Halo 2 a chance if they haven't played it yet.

I agree. I'm glad someone else has stepped in to hopefully correct the wrongs Bungie has developed in the franchise. Fundamentally flailed game. That's why i still play Halo 3.

  • 08.11.2011 6:00 AM PDT