Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...
  • Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...
Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...
  •  | 
  • Exalted Heroic Member
  • gamertag: sp 114
  • user homepage:

sp 114/Spartan-114

PC and Console Gamer. Browncoat.

Agreed completely.

I loved it until that point.

I dislike Bungie for Reach, and for ignoring it's flaws, but we never would have had Halo at all if it weren't for them.

  • 08.05.2011 2:14 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I'll always be a fan of bungies. WHere I found the campaign totally satisfying and firefight to be fun sometimes, MP didn't quite so it for me. Yes the armor abilities made the game not so much fun but not horrible. Bloom ya not so great but not game breaking.

I just didn't like reach's MP and i will never play it again but the truth is , is that bungie knew they were handing over halo to MS. Their baby. i would of done less than what bungie did with reach.

Its in 343's hands now and maybe they will do something with it. Im done with it. 343 doesn't deserve it. halo should have been either put aside until bungie wanted to come back for it or laid to rest.

Im out

Thank you bungie for the universe. It was awesome.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 2:55 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 2:55 AM PDT

I really feel as though Bungie will do a fantastic job with this universe, but I really think they need a new universe.

I just feel like they were afraid to make changes to level design and core campaign structure and started to lose track of what halo was, especially in Reach. I mean, honestly, everything just became so sterile and it just seemed like they were afraid to add things that were too "unhalo-like". They then go to significantly change the core gunplay, which makes no sense...

I honestly feel at this time 343i will probably do a better job with halo in all regards.


However, I really have no doubt bungie will do good with this new franchise. They're finally not going to feel like they can't do anything new. And honestly, I feel like that's their major fault with the end of halo. They try to sterilize it too much. I mean, sure, make the multiplayer super pure. But come on! Make the campaign super creative.


I think both games will end up as must haves.
Granted, Bungie could be making an MMO, and then....god...


[Edited on 08.05.2011 3:08 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 3:05 AM PDT


Posted by: NOBLE lll
I'll always be a fan of bungies. WHere I found the campaign totally satisfying and firefight to be fun sometimes, MP didn't quite so it for me. Yes the armor abilities made the game not so much fun but not horrible. Bloom ya not so great but not game breaking.

I just didn't like reach's MP and i will never play it again but the truth is , is that bungie knew they were handing over halo to MS. Their baby. i would of done less than what bungie did with reach.

Its in 343's hands now and maybe they will do something with it. Im done with it. 343 doesn't deserve it. halo should have been either put aside until bungie wanted to come back for it or laid to rest.

Im out

Thank you bungie for the universe. It was awesome.

If you look at the actual roster of employees at 343i, I mean, it's home to super notable developers from across the gaming industry. If you're just talking about the developer, those people definitely have the credentials to make Halo.

  • 08.05.2011 3:09 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Heroic Member

enjoy the silence


Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.


I agree with every single word.

  • 08.05.2011 3:31 AM PDT

I run Skirmish!!!

i agree, reach should never have been made and it has been a disappointment to me and all my friends plus alot of other people

  • 08.05.2011 3:44 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Join my group:

Halo 3 Multiplayer Group

The main aim of this group is to express our ideas on how to improve Halo multiplayer in the next game.

1) NO LOCKING ANY THREADS
2) No more searching through pages and pages to see if your topic has already been discussed
3) Stickies are updated as more ideas flow in, so you dont have to read a whole thread, just read the top post!

The only thing I didn't like about Reach was that it lacked some of the custom options in gametypes that Halo 3 had. Otherwise I think it was way above all of the other games and it has been more fun than Halo CE for me, which I didn't think would be possible. Halo 3 was the biggest screw-up, I think, and if I could erase one game from reality it would be that one.

  • 08.05.2011 3:51 AM PDT
  • gamertag: furaii
  • user homepage:

it comes down to this:

what do you want from a halo game?

you saw the vidoc, you saw how much halo has progressed, with THAT much content and the changes they made of course some people wont like it.

in my eyes reach is the PERFECT halo game, it does everything i ever wanted it to do, they said at the start they made it first person so YOU were the hero. In reach they actually made YOU the hero, YOU were a spartan and you looked how YOU wanted to. The campaign for me was pure epic, to me it did everything right.

Now when it comes to online the community is split once more there are 2 types of online gamers:

1 - the guys (like me) who are out for a good time, happy to win or lose but ultimately want to have FUN and lots of it. These are the people that played halo 1 over lan with a bunch of friends and loved every second of it, the people who played xboxconnect (or whatever it was called) to play over the internet on halo 1 JUST to have fun.

2 - the guys who only care about winning, that feel everything needs to be balanced. These are the kind of people that hate change and just want the game to be the same each time with a few new skins. these people tend to play games like cod and go for 10 or 11 kill streaks and destroy everything they see, these people are true gamers that can pick up a controller on any fps and destroy everything in sight.

Reach is a blend between the 2, love it or hate it it works. I can still play with my friends and have fun even though we lose. the 'l33t' gamers can still play and win every game they are a part of, they just have to accept now and then their bloom will cause a little randomness and cost them a kill or someone will armour lock at the exact time to -blam!- up their kill and get them killed. Thats what makes halo in my mind, its unpredictable game play, that you join a game and really dont know what might happen.

so again with me, reach is the perfect halo. Dont misunderstand though, its by no means without its problems, there are many things that could make it better, but there are things that could make every game better. Like they said in the vidoc, if they developed any game as much as they wanted to, it would never be finished. Gamers have come to expect too much from games and thats the sad truth.

  • 08.05.2011 3:53 AM PDT


Posted by: The_Bumblebee
The only thing I didn't like about Reach was that it lacked some of the custom options in gametypes that Halo 3 had. Otherwise I think it was way above all of the other games and it has been more fun than Halo CE for me, which I didn't think would be possible. Halo 3 was the biggest screw-up, I think, and if I could erase one game from reality it would be that one.


I wholeheartedly agree, yet again haha. Although, Halo Reach could have used the flood as zombies in infection.....I was disappointed they didn't add that, it would have made a lot of sense and could have been so epic.

  • 08.05.2011 3:54 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Join my group:

Halo 3 Multiplayer Group

The main aim of this group is to express our ideas on how to improve Halo multiplayer in the next game.

1) NO LOCKING ANY THREADS
2) No more searching through pages and pages to see if your topic has already been discussed
3) Stickies are updated as more ideas flow in, so you dont have to read a whole thread, just read the top post!

I agree bboyfury.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 4:00 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 3:59 AM PDT

Don't -blam!- with Kerser!

Posted by: II gaped II
i agree, reach should never have been made and it has been a disappointment to me and all my friends plus alot of other people


Hmmmm. I hate to agree with you but i just have too. It could have at least been sequel to something.

  • 08.05.2011 4:14 AM PDT

I don't think they are blind to Reach's faults. You have to look at it this way. With Halo 2 they had to cut a lot of material from the game. They even had to cut the original ending of a battle on Earth to the now infamous "Finishing this fight" scene.

Now look at Reach. Bungie was able to get tons of content in. Lots of it might have been stuff they didn't get to put in a past Halo. They finished their last Halo and were happy with what they released.

  • 08.05.2011 4:24 AM PDT

Don't -blam!- with Kerser!


Posted by: spngefan11
I don't think they are blind to Reach's faults. You have to look at it this way. With Halo 2 they had to cut a lot of material from the game. They even had to cut the original ending of a battle on Earth to the now infamous "Finishing this fight" scene.

Now look at Reach. Bungie was able to get tons of content in. Lots of it might have been stuff they didn't get to put in a past Halo. They finished their last Halo and were happy with what they released.


And remember. They make games they want to play.

  • 08.05.2011 4:26 AM PDT

Yes I am from Lebanon & yes that is in the middle east!
Yes I am a Muslim & yes I am proud of it!
LEBO is short for Lebanese, so yeah. Anyway My name is Amer Shahen (Shahen means Falcon or Eagle in arabic) lol I can't speak arabic that well. Amer is pronounced Amir just like Yusuf Amir off GTA4. I don't hate Americans either BTW.
Have fun, go hard and most of all respect your fellow gamers.
Check out my Fileshare!

OP I agree with you 100% Bungie cannot admit there faults for Reach, The Fail of Halo. Yet Halo 2, the best Halo, they admit to multiple faults...

  • 08.05.2011 4:49 AM PDT

Don't -blam!- with Kerser!

Posted by: LEBO TURBO
OP I agree with you 100% Bungie cannot admit there faults for Reach, The Fail of Halo. Yet Halo 2, the best Halo, they admit to multiple faults...


I was laughing the whole time they were acknowledging Reach as being the best Halo.

  • 08.05.2011 4:50 AM PDT

Posted by: j7holdfastjack7
May i first applaud your calm, calculated, contextual criticism of Bungie's development of Reach.

Hear is the situation as i see it.

Halo 3 should have been the final Halo. MC's storyline was finished and locked in. One last offshoot with ODST, then cool.

But Reach really shouldnt exist. It doesnt fit. Bungie really wouldnt have made it in a perfect world. Just contractually obligated to make another triple A Halo title. So since they had too make it. They decided to make it new and itch those creative spots that have been begging to let loose. So it doesnt fit with the other Halo's because its the one that shouldnt be there.

Also Halo 4 has already ruined Halo for me just by the mere fact that it exists. Halo 3 finished it. I understand MS is a company that needs to make money, but its exploitation to stretch this franchise farther. There is just NO WHERE to go with Halo.


Whatever your opinion is on whether Reach was good or not and whether they should have ended it with Halo 3 I think you should reserve your judgment of Halo 4's quality when it actually comes out. Be skeptical yes, maybe even cynical if your so inclined, but don't completely dismiss it. I'm sure Microsoft have people with bigger imaginations and better creative ideas than your obviously giving them credit for, and just because you can't think of anything worthwhile doesn't mean by default that there's nothing worthwhile to make of Halo anymore. Considering you commend the OP as being calm and calculated, I would think you'd take the same approach or at least try to.

As for the original post, as I don't really frequent these forums and so am not really all that privy to the formulated criticisms of other users, other than the generally known complaints, I can't really reply to your, let's call it 'accusation', without knowing on which basis you found said accusation.

However, as far as I'm concerned, Halo Reach is indeed not without its faults, though no Halo game is. I think if you were looking for the manifestation of the 'best halo game' you need look no further than Halo 3. This was really the pinnacle of many of Bungies ideas and technologies (even if it did have a dud level) and Reach was more of a refinement, bringing a more minimal amount of new concepts.

For instance, Halo 3 had saved films, screenshots, forge, 4 player co-op, file shares, a highly improved matchmaking system, armour customisation, skull modifiers, improved stats here on Bungie.net and a very epic and fitting end to the Halo trilogy not to mention much more. Reach, as I said, just refined everything that Halo 3 brought to the table and in addition had some new multiplayer modes, firefight (which obviously manifested first in ODST so wasn't new really) and a brief escapade into space. The campaign was solid though nowhere near as interesting or emotionally investing as the main 'trilogy' storyline and new gameplay elements like the bloom effect and armour abilities helped shake up the formula enough to justify Reach's existence (whether your fan of said additions or not).

So the best halo game, by my definition, is Halo 3 but the ultimate Halo game, as Bungie seem to think, is Halo Reach. Well again it depends entirely on what you would define as 'ultimate', and even then what context you would use it in; it's all very semantic. For me, 'ultimate' really means a culmination; a pinnacle, the highest point in a journey or process that, within the context of Halo, offers the most new material at the highest quality of design and function. Thus personally I would still say Halo 3 takes the cake as again it was the one Halo game that innovated the most; even equipment was a forerunner of what would become armour abilities.

However, it's not surprising to me that Bungie themselves would consider Reach the ultimate Halo, as in a way, it is. Without wanting to sound self-contradictory, I defined 'ultimate' as some sort of culmination and Reach could also adequately fit this bill. As I said earlier, it refined practically everything previously found in all the Halo's and added just enough new elements that one could play Reach and, a few gaming mechanics aside, experience a Halo game conducive with all the others.

Its standalone story, whilst weaker than the trilogies, nonetheless has that element of story accessibility which 2 and 3 obviously don't, also making it, arguably, a good jumping in point for new prospective players to the Halo universe. Then again, the game never explains who the covenant is and why you're fighting them, Bungie simply assumes all fore-knowledge of their universe in its players, which works against it's argument of accessibility. Nevertheless, it has a strong case for being the ultimate halo game, and the very fact it's so modifiable means you can experience it in many different ways and contexts than any other halo game. You can play the story (single or co-operative, with varying difficulties and skull modifiers), you can play firefight (ditto), you can play multiplayer whether competitively or casually in all sorts of modes and on all sorts of maps, both originals and user-created which you create in forge and then you can capture your experience in picture or video form. It's that strength of modification and alteration that gives the Halo games, in general, an edge over other FPS's as far as a breadth of experience goes; I mean, can you play chess in Call of Duty? I think not, and that is one factor as to why Halo has such a large, thriving community (that is the extent of modification not just the chess alone). There's no doubt, with Reach, this level of modification is at its height and that is why, arguably, Reach is by previous definitions, the ultimate Halo game and I think Bungie has every reason to be proud and happy with their creation.

Ultimately (a fortuitous choice of words), Reach is a great game that plays well (mostly) and can be (if previous inhibitions are overcome or accommodated for) enjoyed to the fullest and I too thank them for all their work which has resulted in many long nights of online merriment and memories. So....thank you Bungie.

  • 08.05.2011 5:05 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Fin
  • user homepage:

"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

I have to say I really quite like Reach.

I feel it plays a little more like Halo 1 multiplayer, which wasn't as fast paced as 2 or 3.
If your Halo experience started with Halo 2 I'm sure the change is quite jarring, Halo 2 had excellent multiplayer (glitches aside) and Halo 3 was a refined version of that.
Reach, I feel, is more along the lines of Halo's original multiplayer experience (armour abilities are a bit of a curve ball here).
If you are one of the old guard like me, who picked up Halo when the xbox first came out, then it's playstyle probably feels a bit more familiar.

I thought the canpaign was very well done. It didn't perhaps have the epic scale of some of the other campaigns, being restricted to one planet, but I enjoyed the cinematic style and crisp presentation, as well as the slow relentless descent into chaos as the story progressed and the Covenant got the upper hand.
It felt like playing through a Sci-Fi war movie, and that was good.

I liked the little extras we got, finally getting to fly a starfighter for example. I remember taking one of my friends through co-op not too long ago and as the Sabres are going up he said "So I guess we are going to the ship now, shame we never get to fly these things." I just smiled and waited for him to be pleasantly surprised.


It does have things I don't like, chief amongst them being armour lock (which I feel is very cheap) and vehicles going down so easily to DMR fire.
I would also have preffered things like camo to have remained as power-ups, as it gives people another reason to move around the map, and means less people camping with the camo ability and a sniper rifle.

But in general I think those are minor blemishes in an overall solidly good performance. And I can play in playlists without armour lock anyway.


TL/DR version: Don't expect me to summarise for the illiterate!

Nah, really: I like Reach, I think it's a nice blend between Halo 1 and something new, and the campaign wasn't half bad either. :)


Edit: +1 to what YodaUnleashed said, I agree with pretty much everything there.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 5:18 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 5:14 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: MrBojangles136
I like dick


Posted by: SeijicalStrike


One person is not going to convince them otherwise.


No, just the millions of fans who think Reach is a pile of crap will.

Also, the opinion that matters most isn the customer. And let me tell you we were not pleased with the product.

  • 08.05.2011 5:31 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: MrBojangles136
I like dick


Posted by: almightypandas
No game is perfect. While some on B.net forums believed that Reach was a disaster, a huge majority of the Halo: Reach population thought otherwise. Majority rules senoir, the game wasn't as bad to fans as you may think it was.


You mean all 30,000 of them?

Reach failed to reach the numbers of Halo 3. It failed.

So no, I'd say the fans were pretty unhappy about Reach.

  • 08.05.2011 5:33 AM PDT

As a fan who puts Campaign, and the story, before all else, I was most disappointed with that. In terms of level design, I felt it was a step backwards, rather than a culmination of all they had learnt. The narrative and gameplay didn't do the important event, on which it was based, justice. It wasn't a bad game, just very disappointing. It is saddening to see that some of them believe it to be perfect, and a great send-off.

However, I thank them for creating such a beautiful universe, and for past Halo experiences; and wish them the best of luck with their new project.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 6:40 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 6:00 AM PDT

The cake is a pie

Oh my yes OP. I remember when I first heard that Bungie were calling it quits with Halo. I was rather sad and surprised face. But then I figured, they know what they're doing right? And if a game developers works on a game they're pretty sick of, the game stops being awesome. Can't wait to see what comes next.

The ViDoc, as always, was great. Incredibly interesting and analytic, great for peeps like me who are serios about wanting to make great games of their own.

  • 08.05.2011 6:07 AM PDT

Hi.

Completely agreed.

The Reach part definitely felt like a massive troll attempt to me.

  • 08.05.2011 6:07 AM PDT


Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.

I completely agree. :)
Reach is a solid game and all, but I just feel it, as a Halo game, was just blechh.

  • 08.05.2011 6:09 AM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

DEATHPIMP72: *throws pterodactyl on table*
Suck it JoeSki!!!

*vomits*

"Admit you were wrong, because I think you are wrong!" Hope you're not married, because that kinda mentality will earn you an alimony payment real quick.

The only reason I'm glad that Bungie gets to do their own thing now is because they're not perceptively tied down to a fanbase that sucks from the teat of nostalgia as if it is the nectar of life. Do something other than Halo because it will let them stretch their creative legs without the swarms of "loyal Halo veterans" sweeping in to sulk in their collective tears.

You seem to be mistaking how Bungie percieves failure. H2 was a failure because of the disaster of its development process, the toll it took on the team, and the growing pains it forced. The game fell short of where the wanted it to be and hoped it would be. Halo: Reach's success was in the process and their delivery of a product they were satisfied with. As they said, they make games they like to play. If I were them, I wouldn't give two lumps of dog mess about 90% of things complained about on these forums.

  • 08.05.2011 6:23 AM PDT

I like video games.... A lot. So yeah, I'm heading off to LA to study game design and do a little acting on the side. Wish me luck?:]


Posted by: SteroidKloud

Posted by: spngefan11
I don't think they are blind to Reach's faults. You have to look at it this way. With Halo 2 they had to cut a lot of material from the game. They even had to cut the original ending of a battle on Earth to the now infamous "Finishing this fight" scene.

Now look at Reach. Bungie was able to get tons of content in. Lots of it might have been stuff they didn't get to put in a past Halo. They finished their last Halo and were happy with what they released.


And remember. They make games they want to play.




I think that's exactly how it is.



As a side note for perspective- Reach is tied for my favorite Halo game along with Halo 2 (and Halo: CE literally right behind them). BUT, obviously, that's nothing more than just an opinion haha.

Haha anyways, the quote on them making games "they want to play" is exactly what should be kept in mind. I think it just might be what decided if you liked it or not. The first Halo games, especially 2 and 3, were kinda a balance of the Bungie flavor and the lore (lore+general fan service trying-to-please-everyone stuff), but Reach was Bungie flavor to it's fullest. I doubt they had the control of the lore like they used to now that 343 was taking over, and they were probably completely okay with that! Why? Cuz I bet Bungie fully believes that 343 is going to be great for the franchise. As far as the insertion and care of lore goes, 343 is a mix of past Bungie employes and hardcore fans putting their heart and soul into it, so I'm wayyy stoked for that. So as the other part of that trade off, Bungie got to take the direction they wanted on the series. "Bungie's Swan Song" was used way too much for that not to be the case.

I personally like Bungie games because of how they're made. That little hint of underlying stuffs, the stuffs that you can instantly recognize that it is, indeed, a Bungie game! So I loved Reach because of that, they took that opportunity (shown above) to adopt back their personal style/pizzazz/feng shui, and the game had an overflowing of it seeping through every single *insert witty object title other than crack*.

So the only reason I'm stoked for Bungie to pass on the Halo Universe is because I'm comfortable with it in 343's hands, and it gives Bungie its freedom back to make more of the games they want to make, games that I truly enjoy. That, in turn, makes me even more interested/excited than ever for their new universe. And HOLY CRUD am I excited.

So here's to looking to the future Bungie, or, you know, something cheesy like that. I seriously can't wait!

P.S. This post turned out to be way longer than expected.
Hahaha my bad.

  • 08.05.2011 6:40 AM PDT