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This topic has moved here: Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...
  • Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...
Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...

I like video games.... A lot. So yeah, I'm heading off to LA to study game design and do a little acting on the side. Wish me luck?:]


Posted by: longhorn10

You seem to be mistaking how Bungie percieves failure. H2 was a failure because of the disaster of its development process, the toll it took on the team, and the growing pains it forced. The game fell short of where the wanted it to be and hoped it would be. Halo: Reach's success was in the process and their delivery of a product they were satisfied with. As they said, they make games they like to play.


I completely agree with this, Sir! I send high fives in your general direction.

  • 08.05.2011 6:44 AM PDT

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Reach was always going to be overly analysed. It was the unfortunate target of life long Halo fans.

Think of it like this. The first Son of the family is exceptionally talented at school, as is the second and the third. The forth brings something shiny and new to the table while still possessing some of the qualities that his older brothers possessed. The youngest brother is all round great at everything even showing talents that his older brothers did not possess, he might not excell in any area but there is nothing to major to fault.

The fifth brother is REACH. Technically it was a masterpiece, was it the best? No. Was it great? Arguably. Was it bad? Most definitely NOT.

I have always said that Reach is not a bad Halo game, it's just not a great Halo game; but people seem to unfairly pit it against his older brothers (Halo CE-ODST) and in my opinion it is unfair. What if Halo Reach was released for the original Xbox?

People need to stop hitting Bungie for trying something different because it's not like Reach is a bad game for the changes that they made. Bungie is an abitious company and I love that about them, praise them for this because in retrospect everything they did was for US. They always turned to US when we wanted something, what other company is willing to do that?

Bungie your a fantastic developer, take the constructive criticism as love, because we loved your baby as much as you guys did and we wanted to help it toward the right direction as much as you guys did as well.

Ignore the idiots, who claim after every new installment that it's predeccesor was better; they are blind and often make rediculous statements to support their foundationless claims.

Believe in your selves, you ARE the best company that is active in the business right now; with continued efforts and your nose grinding work ethic you are all bound to become the immortals of the gaming industry.

Per Audacia Ad Astra.

Hopefully I will get the chance to build that slingshot for you guys in Tiger.

-Shaolin-

[Edited on 08.05.2011 6:47 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 6:46 AM PDT


Posted by: militaryguns

No, just the millions of fans who think Reach is a pile of crap will.

Also, the opinion that matters most isn the customer. And let me tell you we were not pleased with the product.


Those millions of fans already bought the game and DLC to go with it. If you don't enjoy the product, go and return it.

Reach isn't a bad game. It's a lot different than anything that happened in a Halo game since its inception, and this makes people cry and sadface.

The story could have been told a bit better, but the gameplay itself is actually a lot of fun and plays very smoothly. Armor Lock ruined many peoples' lives. Yeah. That sucks. Oh well. It's just the way things happened.

Reach is anything but a failure, really. Halo 3 didn't have a whole heck of a lot of competition in 2007, but games have really pushed the bar a lot since then. It still hung on to its numbers when new CoDs came out mostly because it was there first and people would retreat back to it. No one would shove their fingers in their ears and pretend that no game other than Halo 3 existed.

Now, however, there are a lot of other games out there (shocking, no?) and so Reach didn't really hit as many people as Halo 3 did. It happens. It's still a great game that's very polished and one of the best titles on the 360. I say Bungie sent off the series in a very good way and in a way that, as the creators of this expansive universe, allowed them as a whole to leave it at a place they were happy with.

As creators, that is the measure of success.

  • 08.05.2011 6:46 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I always loved the behind the scenes "making ofs" Bungie does. I noticed they didn't do one of those for Reach...

Anyway, I complete agree with the OP.

This entire Vidoc was such a great watch, and by the time they got to ODST I was just thinking, "The acknowledged their failures in Halo 2, they've just GOT to talk about the failures of Reach." Instead, I was greeted by even more praise of Reach!

The numbers say it all! Reach just isn't up to par, and it can't hold peoples attention. I played Halo 2 for 2 years straight on Live. Never once was I bored. I played Halo 3 for 3 years straight. Never wanted to quit playing. I loved ODST! Reach came around, I played for 2 weeks, and then put it down.

I can't play Reach for long periods of time. That is it's major fault. Armor Lock, Bloom, The horrible campaign(mainly because each time I play I shake my head at every canon error.) and the not-so-good retail maps just make this game feel like it belongs in a different game series. This game does not feel like a Halo title.

I know Bungie likes to add new things to spice the games up. Halo 2 added vehicle hijacking and dual wielding, Halo 3 added Equipment, ODST added VISR(and Medkits back), but they took it much too far with Reach. Infact, I blame most of Reach's failures on Sage for letting so much -blam!- slide through into the sandbox.

Just once I'd like to hear Bungie say, "We're sorry we didn't stick to the novel canon." or, "We know Armor Lock was a bad idea."

Halo: Reach isn't Bungie's best game. It might be their best developed game, in the sense that there was no crunch or rush to get things completed. There wasn't a lot of cut content this time. But the things that made it in just weren't all that good.

If anything, the only thing I can praise Reach for, is the 10 minute Space combat portion of Long Night of Solace.

  • 08.05.2011 6:49 AM PDT

"We all know how stupid the average person is. Now realize that, by definition, half the population is dumber than that." - Ivan Stang


Posted by: longhorn10

You seem to be mistaking how Bungie percieves failure. H2 was a failure because of the disaster of its development process, the toll it took on the team, and the growing pains it forced.


I wonder if we'll ever actually get the Halo 2 that was promised...

  • 08.05.2011 7:33 AM PDT

Proud member of Forge Cafe

I think to talk about how the company "failed" with their latest release and so close to the end of the vidoc wouldn't leave viewers with an overwhelming excitement for what was next, instead people would be left on a low note and would have seen the vidoc as a documentary of how a brilliant company fell apart.

I'm sure bungie are well aware that Reach isn't the jewel on the Halo Crown, but it's certainly not a failure either. A lot of people, myself included still play Reach a lot and enjoy it.

  • 08.05.2011 7:41 AM PDT

I partly agree with you. A final Halo 3. And then Halo 3: ODST. After that, i would've wanted Halo:Marine/Halo Wars continuation/ Halo: ODST

  • 08.05.2011 7:55 AM PDT

I agree 100%. During the parts with Reach I felt my stomach drop a little bit with each mention of how awesome Reach is. I like Reach as a game, but by no means does it deserve Halo next to the title.

And I still love Bungie, but they seem nto be riding this Game of the Year dellusion too far. How can they admit the masterpiece that was H2 was a failure compared to....this?

  • 08.05.2011 7:58 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

I was very pissed with the bad press they gave Halo 2, it just seemed like they hated the game. From a production standpoint of having to cut a third of it, I can understand the frustration but if they finished with Halo 2 we wouldn't have what we do today with Halo.

I felt the nostalgia with Halo CE's lengthy section but the rest seemed a bit underwhelming, a lot of it was taken from previous ViDocs about Halo over the past decade...

  • 08.05.2011 8:01 AM PDT

I'm an Anarchist. I don't need a government to be a good person, but I'm glad it's here because some of you clearly do.

I too enjoyed the vidoc, but found it strange that they admitted to no faults.

"Reach is the definitive Halo"
...Really? I always thought Combat Evolved was the definitive Halo, seeing how the entire game took place on Halo, and the whole story was about Halo rather than the green robot dude you're playing as.

Criticisms aside, I did enjoy the Vidoc, and look forward to what Bungie serves up next.

  • 08.05.2011 8:09 AM PDT

For all of those who feel trolled by the vidoc with bungie's praise of reach and admitting to their troubles with halo 2. Do you not understand that Reach is still for sale and halo 2 is a retired title. I am sure part of the deal is they are not allowed to make any negative comments about a current game title. Or anything that might damage sales. This is a common practice and I am sure that everything in the vidoc was vetted by their and MS's legal dept. Along with all employ posts. No mistakes will ever be admitted as long as a title is on sale.
What they did with reach is put everything in the game that they always wanted to try but at the same time they gave you as the player so much control in custom games that you could play it how ever you want. If you don't like AA turn them off and play classic slayer. Build the maps you want to play on. They made a game but said its yours do with it what you want, here are the tools.
As far as the story and not staying to cannon I think they got stuck with we owe two games to MS, where can we fit them and make them full and fun. Also I am not on the inside but Reach is the only game where Joseph staten was not story lead so I feel that this might be where some of the flavor was lost.
So as someone who has been playing Bungie's games for at least 15 years(starting with Marathon 2 durandel and myth) I look forward to what is coming next from them. They have been game changers for so long, they are allowed their missteps. and I hope 343 does good things with the franchise and does not just make it a cash cow.

  • 08.05.2011 8:17 AM PDT

All day, Every day

Even with it's faults (and there are quite a few), I've learned to like Reach. It's no Halo or Halo 2, but I'm starting to believe that maybe those games were just too good to ever be topped. I'm hopeful for whatever it is Bungie is working on. With any luck, they'll make something else that can steal the next 10 years of my life away from me.

  • 08.05.2011 8:23 AM PDT

Bungie is one of the few megastudios that have the guts to make enormous changes to the "winning formula". It might not appeal to you who like to buy status quo milking machines like CoD every year, but to us who prefer change, difference and evolvement of the gaming industry Reach was as good as we expected it to be.

  • 08.05.2011 8:23 AM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

I agree with the OP 100%.

In fact, I think they should've given themselves a break when ragging on Halo 2. Hell, aside from the cliffhanger ending that everyone hated, I think Halo 2 was the best Halo game. The plot, while they admitted they cut it short, opened up the Halo universe in a way Halo: CE couldn't. It was broader, and it just felt more epic in atmosphere.

I think the success of H2's multiplayer goes without saying.

But yeah, when they started going on and on about how great Reach was, I thought they were joking. Honestly, I don't even know where to start.

  • 08.05.2011 8:28 AM PDT

"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." ~Voltaire

I agree 100% OP. I love Bungie for making such an awesome series and universe, but their blind love for Reach makes it clear that it's the right time for them to move on to something else.

  • 08.05.2011 8:34 AM PDT

Are you kidding me? Bungie said that they learned from Reach and ODST, let me -blam!- enjoy their last Halo game. And personally I say its their best.

  • 08.05.2011 8:41 AM PDT

I can't help but chuckle.

"They didn't say what I wanted them to say during THEIR vidoc!" *rage*

As somebody else said, they had to cut a LOT of content from halo 2. That is what they seem to consider the failure of Halo 2, not the success of the released game. With Reach, they did everything they wanted to development wise.

A person pointed out "It seems like everybody is wanting halo 2 over and over again instead of new things." Sorry folks, but expecting a company to bend over and say everything you say is true... that's sad.

Oh, I'll laugh more if I see more comments about Noble Team's characters being so poorly done. Might I point at the rest of the halo trilogy? (Master Chief, nearly everybody in CE...)

  • 08.05.2011 8:42 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I can't help but chuckle.

"They didn't say what I wanted them to say during THEIR vidoc!" *rage*

As somebody else said, they had to cut a LOT of content from halo 2. That is what they seem to consider the failure of Halo 2, not the success of the released game. With Reach, they did everything they wanted to development wise.

A person pointed out "It seems like everybody is wanting halo 2 over and over again instead of new things." Sorry folks, but expecting a company to bend over and say everything you say is true... that's sad.

Oh, I'll laugh more if I see more comments about Noble Team's characters being so poorly done. Might I point at the rest of the halo trilogy? (Master Chief, nearly everybody in CE...)


This.

  • 08.05.2011 8:47 AM PDT

While I agree with your point, I disagree with one thing. Some time passed before Bungie spoke about Halo 2 and it's "failure". They didn't really talk about it in detail until they shut down the servers of Original XBOX last year.

I believe that in time, say 5 years, they'll open up about mistakes they made in 3, ODST and Reach. But not now, since it might hurt sales. Since Halo 2 is in a previous generation, who cares about sales.

  • 08.05.2011 8:54 AM PDT


Posted by: CowPieSky32
It's like we're the same person. I felt like Bungie was trolling me during the Reach portion of the Vidoc. They have to be able to see the Xbox Live population is no where near the levels they were for previous games. While this isn't the best factor (Shadowrun is an awesome game) but clearly Reach didn't resonate as strongly with fans as previous Halo games. That's what frustrates me. Bungie acts like they hit Reach out of the part when in reality they stuck out.


Bungie doesn't usually make games for the fans, they make games for themselves.


They do what is fun to them. That's not as bad a practice as it seems. They still made loads of cash.

  • 08.05.2011 8:59 AM PDT

Want to see advanced Halo stats not offered by other Halo stat websites? Check out MetaHalo.com, the stats website I am working on. Reach stats currently in development.

Like BTB? Check out bigteambattle.net!

I'm not quite sure why people are claiming I'm crying or raging just because my opinion differs from the average Halo fan. And it's not like my opinion is blind and baseless either - it comes from my personal experiences, the experiences of others and pure numbers.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
"They didn't say what I wanted them to say during THEIR vidoc!" *rage*


Since the release of Reach, Bungie has pretty much remained in silence regarding the core issues with their game. So yes, I am a bit disappointed and that's why I mentioned it in my post. It's also why I am happy Halo is going to a new developer (that has already admitted Reach has faults and is working to fix them).

[Edited on 08.05.2011 9:11 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 9:04 AM PDT

I agree with the original post.

As a consumer, a gamer, I want to play the best experiences out there. I played Halo, because it was the most complete, ahead of its time, and best first person shooter out. I stuck with Halo through the whole series.

BUT it's sad to say that I can't stick with reach. I would rather move on to better experiences. Reach doesn't have all the little things working together to make an irresistible game that the other Halo games had. Some of the changes and new things they added just wreck the balance and cohesiveness that the Halo should have.

I hate the armor abilities with a passion, but I was waiting for the sprint feature in Halo for a long time. Its a shame Reach wasn't what it could have been. I look forward to bungie's next game though! :)

  • 08.05.2011 9:11 AM PDT


Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
I'm not quite sure why people are claiming I'm crying or raging just because my opinion differs from the average Halo fan. And it's not like my opinion is blind and baseless either - it comes from my personal experiences, the experiences of others and pure numbers.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
"They didn't say what I wanted them to say during THEIR vidoc!" *rage*


Since the release of Reach, Bungie has pretty much remained in silence regarding the core issues with their game. So yes, I am a bit disappointed and that's why I mentioned it in my post. It's also why I am happy Halo is going to a new developer (that has already admitted Reach has faults and is working to fix them).


What are these crazy faults that can be fixed in a TU?

  • 08.05.2011 9:15 AM PDT

Want to see advanced Halo stats not offered by other Halo stat websites? Check out MetaHalo.com, the stats website I am working on. Reach stats currently in development.

Like BTB? Check out bigteambattle.net!


Posted by: LongMasterWolf

Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
I'm not quite sure why people are claiming I'm crying or raging just because my opinion differs from the average Halo fan. And it's not like my opinion is blind and baseless either - it comes from my personal experiences, the experiences of others and pure numbers.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
"They didn't say what I wanted them to say during THEIR vidoc!" *rage*


Since the release of Reach, Bungie has pretty much remained in silence regarding the core issues with their game. So yes, I am a bit disappointed and that's why I mentioned it in my post. It's also why I am happy Halo is going to a new developer (that has already admitted Reach has faults and is working to fix them).


What are these crazy faults that can be fixed in a TU?


I feel like you're just trying to waste my time by posting that. Anyone who frequented the Reach or Optimatch forums should know the answer to that question.

  • 08.05.2011 9:20 AM PDT
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All you freakin tards complaining about how horrible reach is I have the perfect solution for you; take the -blam!- game out and put in CoD... Problem solved now shut up about the same old redundant -blam!-.

  • 08.05.2011 9:25 AM PDT