Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...
  • Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...
Subject: I really enjoyed the ViDoc, but the last part made me certain...

~/Bip/~
Been here since 09.13.2008 Old Account.
The Battle Begins...
Save the Human Race!

I strongly agree, OP.

  • 08.05.2011 10:47 AM PDT

Posted by: Textually Harass
Posted by: ShieldyPoo
U Mirin?

Why don't you do any work on your chest or legs or something? You look like a cartoon character.

I thought it was dumb how they kept saying they failed with Halo 2. Then when they repeatedly said that Halo Reach was the perfect Halo, and how they were so proud of it, I just wanted to turn the ViDoc off.

Halo Reach is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to Halo. Halo Reach killed the series and made CoD into the FPS powerhouse.

  • 08.05.2011 10:47 AM PDT

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

If you're interested in Halo's music, check this out.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Speaking of chuckles, let's all lol at IonicPaul, who makes friends with bugs to make up for his lack of human contact.

Posted by: ShieldyPoo
Halo Reach is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to Halo. Halo Reach killed the series and made CoD into the FPS powerhouse.

What an ignorant statement. Call of Duty 4 turned CoD into the "FPS powerhouse." Modern Warfare 2 broke all types of sales record because that's what the fickle "fans" want: Something easy to play with a feeling of customization (classes). You would say that Reach drove away the initial population of upwards of a million players via bad gameplay or whatever. The simpler, more logical conclusion is that people came to Reach expecting something new and different, but despite all the changes Bungie made to the core gameplay, it was still Halo. So the CoD fans dropped the game and went to Black Ops once it came out.

Call of Duty is the new "it" game. This was going to happen. Don't blame Halo's fade in popularity on Reach. It had already happened.

  • 08.05.2011 10:52 AM PDT


Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.


I think Bungie was being more objective then subjective. They went into the development process of each game, and talked about all the new things that each one brought, they didn't really judge or criticize the actual gameplay of it, they simply just stated what they did. They had alot of cool ideas stored up that they hadn't tried, and they used them for Reach. So what's the problem? Reach had no particular development problems, except for the fact I guess that they worked their asses off to create it.

Do you expect Bungie to get up there and be like, 'Yeah we created all these new things like armor abilities, and whatnot, but it was just bad'. Yeah like they're just going to contradict all the new things they worked so hard to create with a biased opinion. It was different, but you know what? Some people may have liked it, myself included, even though I miss the classic feel some. How do you think people that liked all the new things in Halo Reach would have felt after they said that?

[Edited on 08.05.2011 10:55 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 10:52 AM PDT

No "New Halo game" will ever be the same without Bungie.

Whatever you do, don't give up!
-Vic DeLeon, GDC 2008

Halo Reach is near perfect. It has flaws yes, but does that shy it from being perfect? o_O

  • 08.05.2011 10:52 AM PDT

..........................................__________ _
_________ ________/ i___________*I_,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,||*-_
|======= |_______|..(;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;|[ | | | | | | | | | | | | ]___===
|..._..--~~**..............**-,.....____,,,..---~-------------------------
|_/...........................,-*...,-*........*, \ \ \*,
.............................-*___/.............*-,___\ ][=][ //-\\ ][_ [[ ]]

Well in Halo 2 they admitted to having failed in the single player portion in the game as it was incomplete. As far as multiplayer goes it was simply the best multiplayer experiences.

But yeah Bungie definitely alluded to reach multiplayer being a failure. Bungie themselves cited the only reason they made the game was because their contract with Microsoft requiring one more game from them.

  • 08.05.2011 10:53 AM PDT

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

If you're interested in Halo's music, check this out.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Speaking of chuckles, let's all lol at IonicPaul, who makes friends with bugs to make up for his lack of human contact.

Posted by: MisterBraz

You make an excellent point with the first paragraph and I agree with the second.

  • 08.05.2011 10:54 AM PDT


Posted by: IonicPaul
Posted by: MisterBraz

You make an excellent point with the first paragraph and I agree with the second.


Thanks, sorry I edited my post. I mean, I agree Reach wasn't a perfect game, but it was perfect for them to end Halo.

  • 08.05.2011 11:04 AM PDT

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

If you're interested in Halo's music, check this out.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Speaking of chuckles, let's all lol at IonicPaul, who makes friends with bugs to make up for his lack of human contact.

Posted by: MisterBraz
Thanks, sorry I edited my post. I mean, I agree Reach wasn't a perfect game, but it was perfect for them to end Halo.

Absolutely.

  • 08.05.2011 11:08 AM PDT

Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.


Posted by: windtalker006
I'm a die hard fan and none of that pissed me off, I loved everything about Reach except how people couldn't adjust so they whined and whined. Anyway yeah does anybody here realize that you should just stop -blam!-ing? It WAS Bungie's game let em do what they want damn

I agree. I love how people are complaining about canon... really? It's Bungie... games > books

  • 08.05.2011 11:09 AM PDT

Hanger one I just shredded with the SMGs until ammo was out and I just threw 'nades like a boss while BRing.

My experience playing Cairo Station on Legendary

Well it must be difficult to say that your final project with the Halo Universe wasn't as good as it was supposed to live up to isn't something easily admitted. But I guess they think it's perfect for the internal players, and not the Global community.

  • 08.05.2011 11:14 AM PDT

Posted by: Textually Harass
Posted by: ShieldyPoo
U Mirin?

Why don't you do any work on your chest or legs or something? You look like a cartoon character.

Posted by: IonicPaul
Posted by: ShieldyPoo
Halo Reach is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to Halo. Halo Reach killed the series and made CoD into the FPS powerhouse.

What an ignorant statement. Call of Duty 4 turned CoD into the "FPS powerhouse." Modern Warfare 2 broke all types of sales record because that's what the fickle "fans" want: Something easy to play with a feeling of customization (classes). You would say that Reach drove away the initial population of upwards of a million players via bad gameplay or whatever. The simpler, more logical conclusion is that people came to Reach expecting something new and different, but despite all the changes Bungie made to the core gameplay, it was still Halo. So the CoD fans dropped the game and went to Black Ops once it came out.

Call of Duty is the new "it" game. This was going to happen. Don't blame Halo's fade in popularity on Reach. It had already happened.

Halo 3 beat CoD4 in daily players
Halo 3 beat CoD WaW in daily players
Halo 3 pretty much tied Mw2 in daily players, even though it was 3 years old at this point

Reach has about 1/8th of the daily players that Black Ops has.

Reach failed miserably.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 12:15 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 12:14 PM PDT

What's the daily pop of black ops?

Today's for Reach is 700,141.

Let's not forget, that clearly those are the only two games out there and that the shooter market does not have far more games with multiplayer online today then before.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 12:18 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 12:17 PM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

DEATHPIMP72: *throws pterodactyl on table*
Suck it JoeSki!!!

Posted by: ShieldyPoo
Halo 3 beat CoD4 in daily players
Halo 3 beat CoD WaW in daily players
Halo 3 pretty much tied Mw2 in daily players, even though it was 3 years old at this point

Reach has about 1/8th of the daily players that Black Ops has.

Reach failed miserably.


BREAKING NEWS: We are now measuring success solely on player counts!

Goodness, I hope the only time you ever touch my money is when you put it in a cash register. Value destroyer, IMO.

  • 08.05.2011 12:21 PM PDT


Posted by: ShieldyPoo
Posted by: IonicPaul
Posted by: ShieldyPoo
Halo Reach is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to Halo. Halo Reach killed the series and made CoD into the FPS powerhouse.

What an ignorant statement. Call of Duty 4 turned CoD into the "FPS powerhouse." Modern Warfare 2 broke all types of sales record because that's what the fickle "fans" want: Something easy to play with a feeling of customization (classes). You would say that Reach drove away the initial population of upwards of a million players via bad gameplay or whatever. The simpler, more logical conclusion is that people came to Reach expecting something new and different, but despite all the changes Bungie made to the core gameplay, it was still Halo. So the CoD fans dropped the game and went to Black Ops once it came out.

Call of Duty is the new "it" game. This was going to happen. Don't blame Halo's fade in popularity on Reach. It had already happened.

Halo 3 beat CoD4 in daily players
Halo 3 beat CoD WaW in daily players
Halo 3 pretty much tied Mw2 in daily players, even though it was 3 years old at this point

Reach has about 1/8th of the daily players that Black Ops has.

Reach failed miserably.

You decide whether or not a game fails by how many daily players it has? You will never play or meet more than half of those players, and unless some of those people are your friends, the amount of players online is completely irrelevant to your experience of the game.

There is a history of other great games in the past being big hits but never sold/retained players well due to bad marketing and competition.

You strike me as a person who would fall into peer pressure easily. It's not them who decides that Reach is a failure, it's your own viewpoint, your own perspective, and your own opinion that decides that. If it so happens that you agree with a lot of people who dislike the game, then that's great for you. Maybe you can all play the game you hate together.

  • 08.05.2011 12:28 PM PDT

8/5/08 Bungie Favorites- NoEnd
7/1/09 Bungie Favorites- RECON Devil
9/9/09 Bungie Favorites- Champion
5/22/10 HaloCharts Favs- Prey


Posted by: OniLink147

Posted by: About 9 Grunts
I like the quote where they said we've learned from Halo Reach and Halo 3 ODST. It gives me hope that their future games won't end up like that. But I agree OP, it did seem a little too sales pitchy to me.

ODST easily has the best Halo campaign. -_- Why would you not want more of that?

Agreed, I still play ODST campaign. But it was far from a perfect game.

  • 08.05.2011 12:33 PM PDT

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

If you're interested in Halo's music, check this out.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Speaking of chuckles, let's all lol at IonicPaul, who makes friends with bugs to make up for his lack of human contact.

Posted by: GeneralRafa
You strike me as a person who would fall into peer pressure easily. It's not them who decides that Reach is a failure, it's your own viewpoint, your own perspective, and your own opinion that decides that. If it so happens that you agree with a lot of people who dislike the game, then that's great for you. Maybe you can all play the game you hate together.

I think what he's doing is using others' opinions (if what game others play qualifies as such) to validate his own.

  • 08.05.2011 12:38 PM PDT


Posted by: IonicPaul
Posted by: GeneralRafa
You strike me as a person who would fall into peer pressure easily. It's not them who decides that Reach is a failure, it's your own viewpoint, your own perspective, and your own opinion that decides that. If it so happens that you agree with a lot of people who dislike the game, then that's great for you. Maybe you can all play the game you hate together.

I think what he's doing is using others' opinions (if what game others play qualifies as such) to validate his own.


But does he know ALL those players opinions? I think not.
Can he say "Reach is terrible cause the numbers."? I think not.

Assuming knowing their viewpoints is stupid. There are more video games out now then there was back then. Hell, I don't play Reach as much and I think it's a good game. Why? Because I've been playing more computer games lately.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 12:44 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 12:43 PM PDT

The biggest failure was Halo 3 to me. Halo CE had awesome maps, same with Halo 2, and Halo Reach has great maps. I want NO remakes from Halo 3, they just weren't fun.

  • 08.05.2011 12:48 PM PDT
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The main aim of this group is to express our ideas on how to improve Halo multiplayer in the next game.

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Posted by: Spawn400Babies
The biggest failure was Halo 3 to me. Halo CE had awesome maps, same with Halo 2, and Halo Reach has great maps. I want NO remakes from Halo 3, they just weren't fun.


I would agree with that statement.

  • 08.05.2011 12:51 PM PDT

I see a lot of people commenting on the MP, but what were people's thoughts on the Campaign? Do you guys truly think that was a culmination of 10 years of game development?

  • 08.05.2011 12:58 PM PDT


Posted by: ev1l tr1t0n
...that it's a really good thing Bungie is no longer developing Halo games. Don't get me wrong, I love Bungie, I can't wait for their next game and on paper Reach is the ultimate Halo game. In practice, however, it is not.

I'm not going to delve into it since countless people have already beat the problems to death in the Reach and Optimatch forums, but these issues with several of the core elements of the game kept it from being the ultimate Halo game it was on paper. And... in the ViDoc, it seemed like Bungie completely ignored that. All they did was repeatedly praise Reach like it was a last sales pitch. No admission of failure, which seems odd considering the admission of failure with Halo 2 (which could hardly be called a failure).

It bothers me that Bungie is so blind to Reach's faults, so that's why I'm happy Bungie is no longer working on Halo. A fresh set of developers is exactly what Halo needed. Thank you, Bungie, for creating such an amazing universe that I have invested thousands of hours into, both in game and out and thank you for handing it off to a team of Halo fans.


100% agreed.
Although I think admitting there are some core problems in Reach this soon would be a bit too early. I think they know that it can potentially harm sales (still!) and the name of the brand if they would do so.

And I don't really care. This is why I am glad 343i is taking over Halo and Bungie is now doing their own thing. Best thing for both Halo and Bungie. The first can now benefit from fresh ideas, and the second can now finally put its new ideas to the test.

  • 08.05.2011 1:06 PM PDT

Reach is a success. Look at the sales numbers. Just because the vocal minority says it sucks doesn't mean it does, lemming.

  • 08.05.2011 1:16 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

I personally have enjoyed Reach quite a bit. For all the criticism I have ascribed to it since release, I've also played the hell out of the game. I have over 5 days of playing in the campaign alone. I don't think Bungie failed with Reach, they just failed to meet the expectations of an extremely hyped up fan base.

  • 08.05.2011 1:32 PM PDT

Mr Black_Hawk


Posted by: j7holdfastjack7
May i first applaud your calm, calculated, contextual criticism of Bungie's development of Reach.

Hear is the situation as i see it.

Halo 3 should have been the final Halo. MC's storyline was finished and locked in. One last offshoot with ODST, then cool.

But Reach really shouldnt exist. It doesnt fit. Bungie really wouldnt have made it in a perfect world. Just contractually obligated to make another triple A Halo title. So since they had too make it. They decided to make it new and itch those creative spots that have been begging to let loose. So it doesnt fit with the other Halo's because its the one that shouldnt be there.

Also Halo 4 has already ruined Halo for me just by the mere fact that it exists. Halo 3 finished it. I understand MS is a company that needs to make money, but its exploitation to stretch this franchise farther. There is just NO WHERE to go with Halo.


See there is just one problem with ending at Halo 3. There is still money in the Halo franchise. I mean only 4 games in one of the biggest stories in any game? They are a business and need to make money.

  • 08.05.2011 1:46 PM PDT