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This topic has moved here: Subject: The one thing that "irked" me in the ViDoc.
  • Subject: The one thing that "irked" me in the ViDoc.
Subject: The one thing that "irked" me in the ViDoc.

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

It's simple. They called Halo 2 a fail and Halo: Reach the perfect Halo game. *facepalm* The rest was great.

---

Okay, to all the negative comments who think I'm a retard and don't know about perspective...I realize it was Hell for Bungie to make. But, what I'm trying to say is...they didn't say anything negative about Reach. They even dared to say that it was perfect. Which, in reality, it's probably the worst Halo (IMO) and has many flaws. Including of which, the giant flaw of disregarding three novels and taking a crap on the canon.

[Edited on 08.08.2011 7:53 PM PDT]

  • 08.07.2011 12:57 PM PDT
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Well, we've all got opinions.

  • 08.07.2011 12:58 PM PDT

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[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

They were talking about it from the perspective of being a developer.

Halo 2 was an awful experience for Bungie.
Halo Reach was a great development experience for Bungie.

Both are great end-products, it's just that the public at large had no idea just how stressful Halo 2 was for them.

  • 08.07.2011 12:58 PM PDT

I spend too much time here.. too much time indeed.

I tweet?

It was their personal fail. It may have not "failed" by your standards and that of the gaming world, but to them and with what they had wanted to put into Halo 2 they failed. As bit artist I've learned one thing, you are your worst critic.

Edit: And what John said.

[Edited on 08.07.2011 1:01 PM PDT]

  • 08.07.2011 1:00 PM PDT

Posted by: urk
Eat raw meat.
Punch a bear in the face.


If you don't know who I am, the feeling is mutual.

The fans might not agree, but that's not the important part. Bungie brought together what THEY believed made Halo great and put that into one game. A lot of people would disagree (can't please everyone), but that's life.

I still disagreed with the Halo 2 "failing" thing, though. I know that A LOT of cool stuff got cut from Halo 2 and that game was hell to make, but I'd still say it was a success. It was the best title on Xbox Live for THREE YEARS until Halo 3 and Call of Duty 4 came out and it has some of the BEST LEVELS IN VIDEO GAME HISTORY in my opinion (Terminal, Headlong, Turf, Relic, Containment, Delta Halo, and Regret).

  • 08.07.2011 1:01 PM PDT


Posted by: Specter Wolf
As bit artist I've learned one thing, you are your worst critic.


The internet has taught me otherwise.

  • 08.07.2011 1:16 PM PDT

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
It's simple. They called Halo 2 a fail and Halo: Reach the perfect Halo game. *facepalm* The rest was great.

As others have mentioned, Halo 2 was a developmental nightmare. They were over ambitious, they had to cut out the final act of their game for pete's sake. It was a miracle that they woule able to still scrape though and come out with a product as polished as Halo 2 in the end.

Also might I add that when they were praising Halo Reach, they seemed to be more focused on the cinematics and the technologies in the game compared to the actual gameplay itself.

  • 08.07.2011 1:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: RageSnipa96
No, they said that the DEVELOPMENT of halo 2 was a fail.

The final game was the best Halo game IMO

  • 08.07.2011 1:23 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

They were still -blam!-ing about Halo 2, you could see they were all pretty bitter about the game because they had to cut so much out of it. Whilst that's reasonable, I find it outrageous that they didn't admit they did things very wrong with Reach's story.

In fact, a lot of the Reach stuff was just from previous ViDocs. I really hoped that they'd acknowledge that they did wrong, but they didn't have a bad word to say about it... sigh...

  • 08.07.2011 1:43 PM PDT

Just curious, If they didn't cut the final act of Halo 2, What would've Halo 3 been like?

  • 08.07.2011 1:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: RageSnipa96
No, they said that the DEVELOPMENT of halo 2 was a fail.

The final game was the best Halo game IMO

  • 08.07.2011 1:48 PM PDT

I think this is the main problem with the ViDoc in general :/

  • 08.07.2011 1:51 PM PDT

From The Beginning, You Know The End

------------------------------------Halo Reach---------------------------------------------


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
It's simple. They called Halo 2 a fail and Halo: Reach the perfect Halo game. *facepalm* The rest was great.


I think they said that because they had to cut a huge portion of the campaign out including the ending.

  • 08.07.2011 1:52 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
What house has a rocket pod, has legs, and has a long narrow barrel that probably shoots something powerful?

Sounds like you're describing the lower half of my body, actually.


Posted by: SonicJohn
They were talking about it from the perspective of being a developer.

Halo 2 was an awful experience for Bungie.
Halo Reach was a great development experience for Bungie.

Both are great end-products, it's just that the public at large had no idea just how stressful Halo 2 was for them.

Though, they did say Halo: Reach was the Halo game they always wanted to make.

  • 08.07.2011 1:53 PM PDT
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“Strange,” mused the Director, as they turned away, “strange to think that even in Our Ford’s day most games were played without more apparatus than a ball or two and a few sticks and perhaps a bit of netting. imagine the folly of allowing people to play elaborate games which do nothing whatever to increase consumption.”

The Black Chapter!

And here was me thinking that the thread was somehow going to involve an urk / irk pun...

I am deeply disappointed.
p.s. - <3 Reach

  • 08.07.2011 1:55 PM PDT

ISU Cyclones!

From their perspective Halo 2 was a much bigger mess. The cliffhanger ending is already pretty infamous and the balance killing bugs like BxR are a massive failure for a developer.

The Reach hate has just been accepted around here because you're not going to please those people ever. For a lot of people ONE mechanic they dislike for ONE gun in ONE game mode can mean "Ruined forever, commence eternal -blam!-ing, worst game ever" as goes things.

Firefight, Forge, Campaign, Multiplayer, Theatre...

Particularly forge and firefight were massively improved from their last incarnations. So much so that there are just as many community maps as regular maps in matchmaking now.

They take pride and feel good about their game, while "fans" -blam!- about the smallest of details.


  • 08.07.2011 2:20 PM PDT

~ Life is Killing Me. ~

~ I hate, therefore I am. ~


Posted by: RageSnipa96
No, they said that the DEVELOPMENT of halo 2 was a fail.

The final game was the best Halo game IMO


^ This.

I agree. IMHO Reach is the best out of the five Halo games that Bungie made.

But you are right, in the ViDoc they said that the development of Halo 2 was a fail. It almost didn't ship in fact, they had to hack off a bunch of the ending and leave it with the Gravemind starting a question-&-Answer setion with Cortana.

But as far as the evolution of a genre, Halo lead the way for all FPS's. They all want to have the success that Halo has, they all want to be Halo.

Think I'm wrong?

Halo was one of the first really workable console shooters. They completely redesigned how/where the requisite buttons on the controllers worked in the game.

If you look at most every shooter since Halo: CE, they all mimic very closely to Halo's control scheme.

But I digress...

O/T: Look at the progress Halo has made in all areas with each progressive game released. In terms of graphics, story, sound, and overall experience, IMHO Reach is the culmination of a decades worth of work.

It is the best of the five for me. =)

I understand that there will be those who disagree with me, but IMHO this is what I see.

=)

  • 08.07.2011 2:30 PM PDT
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While I think everyone above me nailed the true meaning, and agree with their assertions, I think there's one other dimension to this. Halo 2 has been out long enough that Bungie can criticism it any way they want to.

Reach is still too new to give it the lambasting it deserves. Reach is still making MS money. It would be unwise to say your latest game was crap when there's still money to be made off it (even if it will never be Bungie's money). Bungie still needs to maintain a friendly relationship with Microsoft, or they might find themselves cut out of the xbox live network, which would be bad for whatever their next game is.

  • 08.07.2011 2:38 PM PDT

GT: j0sh291
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Even though Halo 2 was cut into pieces the final product was so great!

Halo Reach everything is good but it missed relevant things.

  • 08.07.2011 2:40 PM PDT

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Did you hear how they said they basically had to cut the end of H2? They didn't get to put in all the cool things hey wanted to, they did in Reach and that's why they saw it as being better.

  • 08.07.2011 3:00 PM PDT

We were somewhere around Barstow...

Besides the employee with the English accent obviously.

  • 08.07.2011 3:01 PM PDT

Dianna Agron is the epitome of perfection.

Quinntology.

I for one would have LOVED for online Co-Op for Halo 2 and I'm 99.9% sure that's something that was cut towards the end. They were mean enough to give you the option to go to the menu for it, but then it proceeded to tell you that no, you can't play online Co-Op.

I raged. And I imagine there was a lot more rage coming out of those working on things that had taken the ax weeks, if not days, before Halo 2 went gold.

  • 08.07.2011 3:20 PM PDT

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Posted by: Uriel S167

But as far as the evolution of a genre, Halo lead the way for all FPS's. They all want to have the success that Halo has, they all want to be Halo.


They may want Halo's success, but that doesn't mean they want to be Halo.

  • 08.07.2011 3:21 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: ajw34307
They were still -blam!-ing about Halo 2, you could see they were all pretty bitter about the game because they had to cut so much out of it. Whilst that's reasonable, I find it outrageous that they didn't admit they did things very wrong with Reach's story.

In fact, a lot of the Reach stuff was just from previous ViDocs. I really hoped that they'd acknowledge that they did wrong, but they didn't have a bad word to say about it... sigh...

Exactly. There are significant things wrong with Reach, but they didn't admit any mistakes whatsoever. That is what bugs me the most. Not even any simple acknowledgement even though they clearly put the idea across about Halo 2's failure.

  • 08.07.2011 4:00 PM PDT