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This topic has moved here: Subject: The one thing that "irked" me in the ViDoc.
  • Subject: The one thing that "irked" me in the ViDoc.
Subject: The one thing that "irked" me in the ViDoc.

Remember reach never forget bungie


Posted by: SonicJohn
They were talking about it from the perspective of being a developer.

Halo 2 was an awful experience for Bungie.
Halo Reach was a great development experience for Bungie.

Both are great end-products, it's just that the public at large had no idea just how stressful Halo 2 was for them.

  • 08.08.2011 8:54 AM PDT
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Halo CE- Amazing
Halo 2- Revolutionary
Halo 3- Masterpiece
Halo Reach- The Black Sheep of the bunch
Halo 4- Incredible

Did you know that 93% of all statistics on the internet are made up on the spot, and that 68% of readers believe them?

I agree. I understand that they had to make huge cuts to the game itself, but as a whole, it was a better game than Reach. I had more fun playing that game online than any other game to date.

  • 08.08.2011 8:57 AM PDT

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Posted by: SonicJohn
They were talking about it from the perspective of being a developer.

Halo 2 was an awful experience for Bungie.
Halo Reach was a great development experience for Bungie.

Both are great end-products, it's just that the public at large had no idea just how stressful Halo 2 was for them.

  • 08.08.2011 10:46 AM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

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Suck it JoeSki!!!

Posted by: SonicJohn
They were talking about it from the perspective of being a developer.

Halo 2 was an awful experience for Bungie.
Halo Reach was a great development experience for Bungie.

Both are great end-products, it's just that the public at large had no idea just how stressful Halo 2 was for them.


This.

Damn, do people have no concept of perspective?

  • 08.08.2011 10:49 AM PDT

Dont be shy...
Im sorry for my coup changes but Im new at this.

Make your own halo.

  • 08.08.2011 10:58 AM PDT

I remember when that first demo of halo 2 came out at e3 and then when i played the actual product. it felt like a practical joke i was like what the?! that first build must have been on a faster dev tool than the x box cause it looks alot better and never should have come out as a representation of any stage of development. with that being said halo 2 looked better than most 360 launch titles.reach is there "best" game devwise, i can see a huge difference between odst and reach, the fit n finish is superior.This has nothing to do with the story or weather u can bxr which are personal preferences.

  • 08.08.2011 11:11 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

Okay, to all the negative comments who think I'm a retard and don't know about perspective...I realize it was Hell for Bungie to make. But, what I'm trying to say is...they didn't say anything negative about Reach. They even dared to say that it was perfect. Which, in reality, it's probably the worst Halo (IMO) and has many flaws. Including of which, the giant flaw of disregarding three novels and taking a crap on the canon.

  • 08.08.2011 11:17 AM PDT

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Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Okay, to all the negative comments who think I'm a retard and don't know about perspective...I realize it was Hell for Bungie to make. But, what I'm trying to say is...they didn't say anything negative about Reach. They even dared to say that it was perfect. Which, in reality, it's probably the worst Halo (IMO) and has many flaws. Including of which, the giant flaw of disregarding three novels and taking a crap on the canon.


What most people is saying is that it was the best for them not necessarily for us, they got to put in all they wanted, so they where happy.

  • 08.08.2011 11:19 AM PDT
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A lot of it has to do with the the length of time both these games have been released.

Halo 2 has been out... almost 6 years while Reach has been out (at the time of making the vidoc) about 10 months. At the point, it is just so much easier to go back and point out the flaws since they've had time to reflect and learned how to overcome the challenges that they had during Halo 2.

Another thing is sometimes self-criticism at such narrow length of time is so hard to give. I mean I help to playtest maps all the time before they were to get submitted to Bungie for matchmaking approval, and a lot of times when I was to give feedback to someone about a map, and they didn't like it, they would get very defensive about it and tell me I am wrong even though I wouldn't be the only one saying it.

Even in Halo 3, I would get defensive about the stuff I made only to go now "yeah, those maps were -blam!-."

And I seem to recall someone in the Vidoc saying "we've learned from the criticisms of Reach, but aren't ready to discuss them."

  • 08.08.2011 12:00 PM PDT
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Whoo.

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Just because you prefer Halo 2 over Reach doesn't make it a better product.

I could prefer walking over air travel, that doesn't mean walking is the more efficient mode of transport over large distances.

  • 08.08.2011 12:08 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: MURDUR 587
Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Just because you prefer Halo 2 over Reach doesn't make it a better product.

I could prefer walking over air travel, that doesn't mean walking is the more efficient mode of transport over large distances.

Did I say that I preferred Halo 2 over Reach? Nope. Just simply said they didn't point out of Reach's mistakes, while they jumped all over Halo 2.

  • 08.08.2011 12:15 PM PDT
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Whoo.


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Did I say that I preferred Halo 2 over Reach? Nope. Just simply said they didn't point out of Reach's mistakes, while they jumped all over Halo 2.

The problem with that is?
Halo 2 was a pain, a mess and riddled with problems.
Reach was exactly what they intended.

Please, give me one flaw that's as large as say, superbouncing that exists within Reach. Or button combos, or modding, or many of the other huge gaping holes within Halo 2.

The only reason something like this would "irk" you is if you thought that Halo 2 wasn't deeply flawed or that Reach contained flaws of the same magnitude and the only reason you'd think something like that is if you had a certain affinity for Halo 2 or a certain distaste for Reach, either way it sums up to my hypothesis.

[Edited on 08.08.2011 12:27 PM PDT]

  • 08.08.2011 12:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: XJustinV
Just curious, If they didn't cut the final act of Halo 2, What would've Halo 3 been like?


To my understanding, the comic series, Halo: Uprising is what the final act was, so Halo 3 would have been the same either way. They just had to put the one part in a comic series instead of the game.


[Edited on 08.08.2011 12:32 PM PDT]

  • 08.08.2011 12:27 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: MURDUR 587

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Did I say that I preferred Halo 2 over Reach? Nope. Just simply said they didn't point out of Reach's mistakes, while they jumped all over Halo 2.

Please, give me one flaw that's as large as say, superbouncing that exists within Reach. Or button combos, or modding, or many of the other huge gaping holes within Halo 2.

You think Halo: Reach doesn't have big flaws? How about the flaw where they disregarded three already established Halo novels? I don't know about you, but any kind of canon flaw is bigger then gameplay flaws...

  • 08.08.2011 2:07 PM PDT
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Whoo.

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
You think Halo: Reach doesn't have big flaws? How about the flaw where they disregarded three already established Halo novels? I don't know about you, but any kind of canon flaw is bigger then gameplay flaws...

That's like saying a book with horrible spelling and grammar throughout is less flawed than a excellent book that is just missing it's cover.

Sure they bent some book canon, but that doesn't make the story or the game bad, they had to do it to make the game fun and to make it work. And what if The Fall of Reach never existed?

What would be your bogus "Fatal Flaw" then?
I mean that whole thread you just linked was things you didn't like in the game, not flaws, just things you found distasteful, so all the points in that whole thread are out.

It's like me saying Halo sucks because it's not a RTS series, not because of any flaws within the series, simply because it's not my genre of choice it is fatally flawed.
That argument would just make no sense.
The same way you think matters that are a case of opinion are flaws.

[Edited on 08.08.2011 2:19 PM PDT]

  • 08.08.2011 2:13 PM PDT

From a development standpoint they are absolutely right.

From a gameplay standpoint, I prefer 1 and 3 over both.

  • 08.08.2011 2:19 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: MURDUR 587
[quote]Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
You think Halo: Reach doesn't have big flaws?
Sure they bent some book canon, but that doesn't make the story or the game bad, they had to do it to make the game fun and to make it work. And what if The Fall of Reach never existed?

After distorted canon, it can make the game not fun. I know a few, and I'm sure there's others, who feel the same way. How can you enjoy something when you know it doesn't follow what's already been established? Apart from this, the story that they did replace is just...terrible. It has one-dimensional characters who aren't likable and the only one who showed any signs of hope was Jorge who died early on. There wasn't any character development or overall characters like they had in ODST. You can see all my reasons for disliking the campaign in the thread I linked. I'm not going to keep rambling on about it. But, one last thing, was it just me or was Noble Team having a "Who can die in the most epic way contest!"

  • 08.08.2011 7:24 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9

Posted by: MURDUR 587
[quote]Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
You think Halo: Reach doesn't have big flaws?
Sure they bent some book canon, but that doesn't make the story or the game bad, they had to do it to make the game fun and to make it work. And what if The Fall of Reach never existed?

After distorted canon, it can make the game not fun. I know a few, and I'm sure there's others, who feel the same way. How can you enjoy something when you know it doesn't follow what's already been established? Apart from this, the story that they did replace is just...terrible. It has one-dimensional characters who aren't likable and the only one who showed any signs of hope was Jorge who died early on. There wasn't any character development or overall characters like they had in ODST. You can see all my reasons for disliking the campaign in the thread I linked. I'm not going to keep rambling on about it. But, one last thing, was it just me or was Noble Team having a "Who can die in the most epic way contest!"


The fact is most people who played the game did NOT read the book and so distorted canon, for the majority of Reach gamers, did not affect their playing experience at all...

  • 08.08.2011 7:29 PM PDT

This right here!
Posted by: SonicJohn
They were talking about it from the perspective of being a developer.

Halo 2 was an awful experience for Bungie.
Halo Reach was a great development experience for Bungie.

Both are great end-products, it's just that the public at large had no idea just how stressful Halo 2 was for them.

  • 08.08.2011 7:40 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: MidnightLobster
This right here!
Posted by: SonicJohn
They were talking about it from the perspective of being a developer.

Halo 2 was an awful experience for Bungie.
Halo Reach was a great development experience for Bungie.

Both are great end-products, it's just that the public at large had no idea just how stressful Halo 2 was for them.

Thank you. Did we already establish this? Nahh, let's quote it some moar!

  • 08.08.2011 7:47 PM PDT

Yes, there're too many numbers in my name.

I believe they were referring to the development of Halo 2.

  • 08.08.2011 7:49 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: Tycho_005917
I believe they were referring to the development of Halo 2.


Okay, to all the negative comments who think I'm a retard and don't know about perspective...I realize it was Hell for Bungie to make. But, what I'm trying to say is...they didn't say anything negative about Reach. They even dared to say that it was perfect. Which, in reality, it's probably the worst Halo (IMO) and has many flaws. Including of which, the giant flaw of disregarding three novels and taking a crap on the canon.

  • 08.08.2011 7:53 PM PDT

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Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9

Posted by: Tycho_005917
I believe they were referring to the development of Halo 2.


Okay, to all the negative comments who think I'm a retard and don't know about perspective...I realize it was Hell for Bungie to make. But, what I'm trying to say is...they didn't say anything negative about Reach. They even dared to say that it was perfect. Which, in reality, it's probably the worst Halo (IMO) and has many flaws. Including of which, the giant flaw of disregarding three novels and taking a crap on the canon.


ITT: Bungie has no opinion.

  • 08.08.2011 7:58 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: BxR Twister
ITT: Bungie has no opinion.

-_-"

Love assumptions.

  • 08.08.2011 8:16 PM PDT