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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why did Emile never show his face in Reach?
  • Subject: Why did Emile never show his face in Reach?
Subject: Why did Emile never show his face in Reach?
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In the ViDoc, O Brave New worlds, Marcus Lheto mentions that, "We wanted to take the helmets off of all the Spartans." at around 47:00. Unfortunately we never see Emiles face, in fact, we never learn much about Emile beside the fact that he is a guy with a skull on his visor and a big knife.

Is their any canon-related way to explain this, or did Bungie overlook some one who could have been a great character, if he was put in the right missions?

  • 08.07.2011 6:15 PM PDT

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I laughed at that bit when I heard it actually...

But it's just his own personal image. He's a badass. Besides, it's not like seeing his face would've had an impact on anyone.

  • 08.07.2011 6:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: Toa TAK
I laughed at that bit when I heard it actually...

But it's just his own personal image. He's a badass. Besides, it's not like seeing his face would've had an impact on anyone.


But there was so much room for character expansion! Arrgghhh! Why did Bungie decide to not flesh out half of Noble?

  • 08.07.2011 6:18 PM PDT
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Because he's the one who's an inhuman killing machine. Contrast him with Jorge, who always takes his helmet off and has emotions. Emile's the one who never lets anything other than his supersoldier Spartan self shine through.

  • 08.07.2011 6:22 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: The Final Few
Posted by: Toa TAK
I laughed at that bit when I heard it actually...

But it's just his own personal image. He's a badass. Besides, it's not like seeing his face would've had an impact on anyone.


But there was so much room for character expansion! Arrgghhh! Why did Bungie decide to not flesh out any of Noble?


Fix'd for you.

OT: I don't think there's any reason beyond "we wanted him to be badass".

  • 08.07.2011 6:25 PM PDT

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Posted by: The Final Few

Posted by: Toa TAK
I laughed at that bit when I heard it actually...

But it's just his own personal image. He's a badass. Besides, it's not like seeing his face would've had an impact on anyone.


But there was so much room for character expansion! Arrgghhh! Why did Bungie decide to not flesh out half of Noble?


I feel like it couldn't easily be done. The fans are jaded, in some ways, by Spartans. In Halo:CE, it was the first time we were laying eyes on Master Chief. We were drawn to him.

Add in the fact that there was only one protagonist to have the screen, and it would seem more likely that fleshing out five characters, half of which die 2/3 of the way into the game, in just one single game after we, the fans, are familiar with Spartans enough to loose the awe factor would just be too difficult. The game would end up with too much dialogue, which goes against how a super soldier would behave.

  • 08.07.2011 6:25 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: The Final Few
Posted by: Toa TAK
I laughed at that bit when I heard it actually...

But it's just his own personal image. He's a badass. Besides, it's not like seeing his face would've had an impact on anyone.


But there was so much room for character expansion! Arrgghhh! Why did Bungie decide to not flesh out half of Noble?


I feel like it couldn't easily be done. The fans are jaded, in some ways, by Spartans. In Halo:CE, it was the first time we were laying eyes on Master Chief. We were drawn to him.

Add in the fact that there was only one protagonist to have the screen, and it would seem more likely that fleshing out five characters, half of which die 2/3 of the way into the game, in just one single game after we, the fans, are familiar with Spartans enough to loose the awe factor would just be too difficult. The game would end up with too much dialogue, which goes against how a super soldier would behave.


Then Bungie were totally BSing us when they were saying: "We want to tell an emotional human story."

If they wanted to do that, they should have realised using Spartans was not the place to start!

  • 08.07.2011 6:27 PM PDT

Maybe he's shy.

[Edited on 08.07.2011 6:29 PM PDT]

  • 08.07.2011 6:29 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

I feel that this is applicable to Emile.

  • 08.07.2011 6:31 PM PDT

I currently am working on Halo Wars achievements. 4 to go.
I currently am working on Halo 2 achievements.
I currently have all Halo 3 achievements.
I currently have all Halo 3:ODST achievements.
I currently have all Halo: Reach achievements.


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: The Final Few
Posted by: Toa TAK
I laughed at that bit when I heard it actually...

But it's just his own personal image. He's a badass. Besides, it's not like seeing his face would've had an impact on anyone.


But there was so much room for character expansion! Arrgghhh! Why did Bungie decide to not flesh out half of Noble?


I feel like it couldn't easily be done. The fans are jaded, in some ways, by Spartans. In Halo:CE, it was the first time we were laying eyes on Master Chief. We were drawn to him.

Add in the fact that there was only one protagonist to have the screen, and it would seem more likely that fleshing out five characters, half of which die 2/3 of the way into the game, in just one single game after we, the fans, are familiar with Spartans enough to loose the awe factor would just be too difficult. The game would end up with too much dialogue, which goes against how a super soldier would behave.


Then Bungie were totally BSing us when they were saying: "We want to tell an emotional human story."

If they wanted to do that, they should have realised using Spartans was not the place to start!

Shoot, the cliched Dare/Buck love story in ODST had more depth then what Noble Team had in the whole game.

Actually, in ODST, the soldiers have major personalities. You can pick some stuff out about them through combat dialogue or how they react to other characters. Little things here and there. They didn't develop as characters, but they did become ones we liked.

Same goes for the original trilogy characters. We knew where they stood. The Arbiter is the best example of a developed character in a Halo game, in my opinion. All in Halo 2. He has a redemption story and in Halo 3 kills the dude who put him as Arbiter to begin with. That's pretty ironic for Truth but justifying for the Arbiter.

  • 08.07.2011 6:33 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: ajw34307
Then Bungie were totally BSing us when they were saying: "We want to tell an emotional human story."

If they wanted to do that, they should have realised using Spartans was not the place to start!


I disagree. It's an emotional human story, not an emotional story about a human.

It's about humanities struggle. The true realization that we might be absolutely doomed. Our second greatest stronghold swept aside, and the team you follow dying one by one.

A lot of players won't pick up on it. People have a tendency not to surrender their perspective to the story that wants to be told. They just take the entertainment and not try to empathize. :/

  • 08.07.2011 6:37 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Toa TAK
Actually, in ODST, the soldiers have major personalities. You can pick some stuff out about them through combat dialogue or how they react to other characters. Little things here and there. They didn't develop as characters, but they did become ones we liked.


I feel the same applies to Reach.

One of my favorite moments, and I don't have a reason, is when Kat illustrates operation Uppercut in the cave. She hands Emile back the knife and says "Thanks for sharing."

Her inflection and facial expression speaks volumes to me about her character.

  • 08.07.2011 6:40 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Toa TAK
Shoot, the cliched Dare/Buck love story in ODST had more depth then what Noble Team had in the whole game.


Agreed. At least that had an effect on the characters, showed Buck's motives and brought out his personality when placed in situations where his relationship with her came into play.

Actually, in ODST, the soldiers have major personalities. You can pick some stuff out about them through combat dialogue or how they react to other characters. Little things here and there. They didn't develop as characters, but they did become ones we liked.

And one of the major advantages of that is that Nathan, Alan and Adam have worked together very closely before. The squad banter feels so much more natural because the chemistry is already there from Firefly, it gives them that much more depth without anything complicated. I personally feel that however cliche'd the ODST characters were, they were some of the best pulled off characters in the games.

Same goes for the original trilogy characters. We knew where they stood. The Arbiter is the best example of a developed character in a Halo game, in my opinion. All in Halo 2. He has a redemption story and in Halo 3 kills the dude who put him as Arbiter to begin with. That's pretty ironic for Truth but justifying for the Arbiter.

Exactly. And there's more subtle messages and foreshadowing about the fragility of the Covenant conveyed through the fact that you don't kill a single human as Thel, only Heretics and Flood. Humanity is shown to all be united against a common foe whilst the Covenant is fighting itself.

These characters have infinitely more depth than Noble Team.

  • 08.07.2011 6:40 PM PDT
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originally, he was supposed to be the "silent badass". I guess the transition from silent badass to cocky douche bag was made a little too late?

  • 08.07.2011 6:50 PM PDT

I currently am working on Halo Wars achievements. 4 to go.
I currently am working on Halo 2 achievements.
I currently have all Halo 3 achievements.
I currently have all Halo 3:ODST achievements.
I currently have all Halo: Reach achievements.


Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Toa TAK
Actually, in ODST, the soldiers have major personalities. You can pick some stuff out about them through combat dialogue or how they react to other characters. Little things here and there. They didn't develop as characters, but they did become ones we liked.


I feel the same applies to Reach.

One of my favorite moments, and I don't have a reason, is when Kat illustrates operation Uppercut in the cave. She hands Emile back the knife and says "Thanks for sharing."

Her inflection and facial expression speaks volumes to me about her character.

I really liked that little bit, too. Heck, that whole cutscene should've really been the standard for the rest of the game. More on characters.

In New Alexandria, when you and Kat are in an elevator, she's slowly opening up to you about her first glassing, the one that is happening now. But then she dies.

I know, in-universe, that no one saw that coming and that's okay. But from the writer's standpoint, was that supposed to make us sad?

If they had expanded more on things like Jorge's and Emiles tension about their jobs as Spartans or the Carter/Kat relationship, or Jun's PTSD problems, (since it was an Informed Attribute). What was the purpose of Bungie/Holland giving background info on Noble Team when it didn't impact the story at all aside from Thom's replacement being you.

  • 08.07.2011 6:51 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Toa TAK
What was the purpose of Bungie/Holland giving background info on Noble Team when it didn't impact the story at all aside from Thom's replacement being you.


Such is Bungie's way. They don't like the "that's just how it is" excuse.

They will tell where someone came from, what quarks they have. How they are unique.

Bungie just has high standards for their work. Their children.

  • 08.07.2011 7:00 PM PDT


Posted by: prometheus25
I feel like it couldn't easily be done. The fans are jaded, in some ways, by Spartans. In Halo:CE, it was the first time we were laying eyes on Master Chief. We were drawn to him.

Add in the fact that there was only one protagonist to have the screen, and it would seem more likely that fleshing out five characters, half of which die 2/3 of the way into the game, in just one single game after we, the fans, are familiar with Spartans enough to loose the awe factor would just be too difficult. The game would end up with too much dialogue, which goes against how a super soldier would behave.
I kind of disagree. In Halo 3: ODST Bungie proved that they could bring in a new and enjoyable cast. The characters you fought alongside with were all very likable in my opinion. Bungie did a great job introducing me to a squad I liked.

In Reach, everyone on Noble team is so devoid of personality or anything that makes them unique. It just feels like they had no emotions.

If Noble team was as fleshed out as your ODST squad was, I'm sure Reach could have been a better game.

  • 08.07.2011 7:06 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

Why I dislike reach, is it wasn't completely bad. There were a few moments in the cutscenes where I actually felt attached to Noble team, but then the'd just be glossed over with cliches.

Basically Reach was almost an amazing game.

  • 08.07.2011 7:13 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: xI Camisado Ix

Posted by: prometheus25
I feel like it couldn't easily be done. The fans are jaded, in some ways, by Spartans. In Halo:CE, it was the first time we were laying eyes on Master Chief. We were drawn to him.

Add in the fact that there was only one protagonist to have the screen, and it would seem more likely that fleshing out five characters, half of which die 2/3 of the way into the game, in just one single game after we, the fans, are familiar with Spartans enough to loose the awe factor would just be too difficult. The game would end up with too much dialogue, which goes against how a super soldier would behave.
I kind of disagree. In Halo 3: ODST Bungie proved that they could bring in a new and enjoyable cast. The characters you fought alongside with were all very likable in my opinion. Bungie did a great job introducing me to a squad I liked.

In Reach, everyone on Noble team is so devoid of personality or anything that makes them unique. It just feels like they had no emotions.

If Noble team was as fleshed out as your ODST squad was, I'm sure Reach could have been a better game.


You can pump more emotion into human characters. Spartans I wouldn't consider human. Limited social action, complete military life, reduced sex drive (which can account for a lot more than most people realize.

Having a Spartan joke and be out of line in a military situation would be taboo.

  • 08.07.2011 7:16 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

It did not bother me. I actually liked him like that.

  • 08.07.2011 7:16 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

A lot of people seem to bring ODST into the discussion when it comes to Noble Team, but what they don't seem to realize is that ODSTs and Spartans are completely different. Sure, ODSTs are Spec-ops, kind of like the SAS or the Navy Seals, but they had normal lives before they joined the military and will have normal lives after they're done with it. Spartans on the other hand, they know nothing but what they were taught about ever since they were kids, and that's a strict, military life style. They weren't raised by a loving family, went to school with other normal kids and didn't experiment love (except for Black one and three or two, can't remember, but she got the crap kicked out of her for it and maybe Maria) or any other thing a normal human being would experiment.

If Noble Team had been another squad of ODSTs then I wouldn't justify their lack of personality, but seeing how Spartans are meant to stick to every known regulation in the military and they were raised to be super-disciplined and only speak when and about what's necessary, then I do not think they are too bad.

  • 08.07.2011 8:06 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I've seen his face...it's not pretty. He looks like a deformed Will.i.am.

  • 08.07.2011 8:08 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I've seen his face...it's not pretty. He looks like a deformed Will.i.am.

He looked like Kanye West to me.

  • 08.07.2011 8:10 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Toa TAK
Shoot, the cliched Dare/Buck love story in ODST had more depth then what Noble Team had in the whole game.


Agreed. At least that had an effect on the characters, showed Buck's motives and brought out his personality when placed in situations where his relationship with her came into play.

Actually, in ODST, the soldiers have major personalities. You can pick some stuff out about them through combat dialogue or how they react to other characters. Little things here and there. They didn't develop as characters, but they did become ones we liked.

And one of the major advantages of that is that Nathan, Alan and Adam have worked together very closely before. The squad banter feels so much more natural because the chemistry is already there from Firefly, it gives them that much more depth without anything complicated. I personally feel that however cliche'd the ODST characters were, they were some of the best pulled off characters in the games.

This.

OT: He didn't want to get a tan.

  • 08.07.2011 8:17 PM PDT

Sometimes, I won, Sometimes I lose. but always, I'll be the Best

If you want to go deep, he hides.

he hides emotions of any kind with jokes and sarcasm, but that doesnt mean he is a cold person.

He mentions honoring Jorge and you will be able to hear him say "That was for Kat" sometimes.

Like they said, he only shows his "Super soldier, cold killing machine" side.

  • 08.07.2011 8:42 PM PDT