Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why doesn't bungie.net use IP bans?
  • Subject: Why doesn't bungie.net use IP bans?
Subject: Why doesn't bungie.net use IP bans?

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Achronos
Banning people in general is not a good way to combat spam. Think about it - bans don't prevent spam, they just get rid of it after it is posted. And since the only way to do that is wait until a moderator deals with it, users are kind of screwed.

Admittedly the status quo is not acceptable, but "more bans" or "more ninjas" is not really going to fix anything.


I don't see why people can't just report the a suspicious link and not say anything (trolls feed on attention).

Maybe it should take less reports to minimize a post with a link than a normal post for a faster response.

Most of the time I see a bad link, it isn't even reported.

  • 08.09.2011 5:57 PM PDT

BUNGiE will always by my favorite gaming developer

rock on and continue with epic-ness


Posted by: Achronos
Banning people in general is not a good way to combat spam. Think about it - bans don't prevent spam, they just get rid of it after it is posted. And since the only way to do that is wait until a moderator deals with it, users are kind of screwed.

Admittedly the status quo is not acceptable, but "more bans" or "more ninjas" is not really going to fix anything.
ahhhh


ok

  • 08.09.2011 5:57 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. " ~Gil Stern

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." ~Albert Einstein

"What did I just drink?"~Socrates

Buyer's Guide: Headphones|Google Chrome Themes|Arena Spreadsheet

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Achronos
Admittedly the status quo is not acceptable, but "more bans" or "more ninjas" is not really going to fix anything.
Well, more ninjas would certainly fix the gaping time holes in coverage.


I do agree with this.

  • 08.09.2011 5:58 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I don't see why people can't just report the a suspicious link and not say anything (trolls feed on attention).
It's not about ability, it's about desire. For a user, the report system is opaque and tedious. When a user doesn't see a system work, when they don't get feedback, they're not liable to trust the system and therefore less likely to use it.

  • 08.09.2011 5:59 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: drummer0702
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Achronos
Admittedly the status quo is not acceptable, but "more bans" or "more ninjas" is not really going to fix anything.
Well, more ninjas would certainly fix the gaping time holes in coverage.


I do agree with this.


I wouldn't mind more late night mods/more active mods.

Also, if the mods post, it is a fear in itself.

I notice most of the trolls start posting when there hasn't been a thread lock/mod post in a while.

Just saying, there is power in numbers.

  • 08.09.2011 6:00 PM PDT

Why do people in ship mutinies always ask for "better treatment"? I'd ask for a pinball machine, because with all that rocking back and forth, you'd get a lot of free games.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.


Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I don't see why people can't just report the a suspicious link and not say anything (trolls feed on attention).
It's not about ability, it's about desire. For a user, the report system is opaque and tedious. When a user doesn't see a system work, when they don't get feedback, they're not liable to trust the system and therefore less likely to use it.


Most users are also incapable to create their own filter in their head where they can just pretend it isn't there.

  • 08.09.2011 6:01 PM PDT

"From now until the end of the world, we and it shall be remebered, for we band of brothers"
Foxtrot Company
UNSCDF
Coup D Bungie
gt and alt. account is RainFall277

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: drummer0702
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Achronos
Admittedly the status quo is not acceptable, but "more bans" or "more ninjas" is not really going to fix anything.
Well, more ninjas would certainly fix the gaping time holes in coverage.


I do agree with this.


I wouldn't mind more late night mods/more active mods.

Also, if the mods post, it is a fear in itself.

I notice most of the trolls start posting when there hasn't been a thread lock/mod post in a while.

Just saying, there is power in numbers.
Yeah I think that does have some truth to it. Most of the troll posts happen when not a single mod has posted for at least an hour. Sadly, because I don't live in the same timezone as the mods, me and other late-night floodians have to deal with them.

  • 08.09.2011 6:03 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Top_Gun_2021

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I don't see why people can't just report the a suspicious link and not say anything (trolls feed on attention).
It's not about ability, it's about desire. For a user, the report system is opaque and tedious. When a user doesn't see a system work, when they don't get feedback, they're not liable to trust the system and therefore less likely to use it.


Most users are also incapable to create their own filter in their head where they can just pretend it isn't there.


idk if I see a link that I don't know where it leads or says something that doesn't sound right, I don't click it and if I am 100% sure it is a know shock sight I report it.

I mean, that is the key to stopping shock site spammers right there.

When you cut off the attention they get, you make it less pleasant for the spammer.

  • 08.09.2011 6:03 PM PDT

Why do people in ship mutinies always ask for "better treatment"? I'd ask for a pinball machine, because with all that rocking back and forth, you'd get a lot of free games.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.


Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: Top_Gun_2021

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I don't see why people can't just report the a suspicious link and not say anything (trolls feed on attention).
It's not about ability, it's about desire. For a user, the report system is opaque and tedious. When a user doesn't see a system work, when they don't get feedback, they're not liable to trust the system and therefore less likely to use it.


Most users are also incapable to create their own filter in their head where they can just pretend it isn't there.


idk if I see a link that I don't know where it leads or says something that doesn't sound right, I don't click it and if I am 100% sure it is a know shock sight I report it.

I mean, that is the key to stopping shock site spammers right there.

When you cut off the attention they get, you make it less pleasant for the spammer.


No, reporting doesn't solve the problem, ignoring them completely and pretending it doesn't exist does. What if they want to be reported? What if there are hundreds of more links you missed?

Cutting off attention means, "Oh look a spammer, how about I just scroll over his post. I didn't click his link or read anything, just scrolled over it. I Didn't miss anything. My life isn't worse or better. My internet experience is still good because I ignored a spammer."

  • 08.09.2011 6:17 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Yes, this is definately a problem. Unfortunately, there are technical reasons that a user can't see instant feedback on reported posts (old forum system is old).

As for more ninjas - that goes back to an issue of trust. Picking new moderators is hard. Nobody likes doing it and it takes forever. It doesn't help that most people who would be good moderators have absolutely no desire to do it because it is a thankless job, and most who want to do it would make terrible moderators. Adding in the limitations of time zone converage as well as the fact that these are volunteers, well, the pool of people effectively shrinks to near-zero most of the time.

At present, it is simply more expedient to live with the status quo until such time as we won't have to anymore.

Posted by: elmicker
It's not about ability, it's about desire. For a user, the report system is opaque and tedious. When a user doesn't see a system work, when they don't get feedback, they're not liable to trust the system and therefore less likely to use it.

  • 08.09.2011 6:33 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Achronos
At present, it is simply more expedient to live with the status quo until such time as we won't have to anymore.

Would that time most likely be when there's an update to the forums/report system? For the trust issue, aren't normal forum ninjas limited in power? Of course they could cause a good amount of chaos, but could they do anything too terrible?

  • 08.09.2011 6:40 PM PDT

Whisper Game Studios - shhhh, it's a public secret.
Webcam MVP
Sarsion.net
Bnet PM Policy

[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]


Posted by: Achronos
It doesn't help that most people who would be good moderators have absolutely no desire to do it because it is a thankless job, and most who want to do it would make terrible moderators.
Ever thought about thanking them once in a while? At least once? No? Meanie.

  • 08.09.2011 6:43 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

It's really all about being reactive versus proactive in terms of stopping trolls. Unfortunately many of the ways that would help a website be proactive are very time consuming, mod approval for accounts, a complete overhaul of the report system etc.

But for now the majority of the user base isn't being terribly hurt by the occasional troll posting shock sites or whatever. You just have to look before you click. The mods get to the posts as quickly as they are noticed or posted so for now I'm not that upset with the system.

  • 08.09.2011 6:47 PM PDT

-Avatar-

I work for the Department of Defense.


Posted by: Achronos
It doesn't help that most people who would be good moderators have absolutely no desire to do it because it is a thankless job, and most who want to do it would make terrible moderators.


I like this line. While I completely agree, and I wont say the many things I feel like saying, I would like to point out that it's highly relative to say the good = no interest, bad = too much interest.

I assume either you alone, or you and a few make the selection committee, and with a populous as dynamic is b.net, it seems sorta totalitarian that only one (or maybe others, we can only assume one) mind deems who is and is not worthy.

  • 08.09.2011 6:49 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. " ~Gil Stern

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." ~Albert Einstein

"What did I just drink?"~Socrates

Buyer's Guide: Headphones|Google Chrome Themes|Arena Spreadsheet

Posted by: Achronos
Yes, this is definately a problem. Unfortunately, there are technical reasons that a user can't see instant feedback on reported posts (old forum system is old).

As for more ninjas - that goes back to an issue of trust. Picking new moderators is hard. Nobody likes doing it and it takes forever. It doesn't help that most people who would be good moderators have absolutely no desire to do it because it is a thankless job, and most who want to do it would make terrible moderators. Adding in the limitations of time zone converage as well as the fact that these are volunteers, well, the pool of people effectively shrinks to near-zero most of the time.

At present, it is simply more expedient to live with the status quo until such time as we won't have to anymore.

Posted by: elmicker
It's not about ability, it's about desire. For a user, the report system is opaque and tedious. When a user doesn't see a system work, when they don't get feedback, they're not liable to trust the system and therefore less likely to use it.


I'm sure there are a few people around, however, you still have the problem of just a few people are probably not going to make a huge difference with the current issue.

I must ask, though. What are you guys going to do when you inevitably go multi-platform? I think it is obvious that you're going to need a decent amount of new moderators to deal with a population that could easily be doubled. You're going to have to add new moderators at some point. Obviously I don't know when the next game is going to come out or even announced, but I'd imagine that training new Moderators prior to this happening could only benefit the community as a whole.

  • 08.09.2011 6:59 PM PDT

"Everything will be gone long before me. When the first living thing was born, I was here, waiting. When the last living thing dies, my job is finished. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn out the lights and lock the universe behind me when I leave." -Shishka

--

http://www.bungie.net/News/Blog.aspx?mode=news#cid32227

Unfortunately, yes. But I thought they had a system where they can ban people using some flexible system?

i.e. Say someone has an IP: 243.21.11, can't they pin point other IP's like this and ban ones similar to it? i.e. 243.21.11.7, 243.21.115.7, 243.21.119.225. etc?

That's how I thought it worked because when I got banned I used to try that and it never worked.

  • 08.09.2011 7:06 PM PDT

What if Bungie appointed ninja's from all over the world? It may fix the time gaps/late night.

  • 08.09.2011 7:13 PM PDT

Why do people in ship mutinies always ask for "better treatment"? I'd ask for a pinball machine, because with all that rocking back and forth, you'd get a lot of free games.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.


Posted by: lolcopter111
What if Bungie appointed ninja's from all over the world? It may fix the time gaps/late night.


They pretty much do that already.

  • 08.09.2011 7:16 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Achronos
Picking new moderators is hard.
What about old moderators?

  • 08.09.2011 7:18 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. " ~Gil Stern

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." ~Albert Einstein

"What did I just drink?"~Socrates

Buyer's Guide: Headphones|Google Chrome Themes|Arena Spreadsheet


Posted by: Skibur
Posted by: Achronos
Picking new moderators is hard.
What about old moderators?


el oh el

  • 08.09.2011 7:19 PM PDT


Posted by: Top_Gun_2021

Posted by: lolcopter111
What if Bungie appointed ninja's from all over the world? It may fix the time gaps/late night.


They pretty much do that already.


In that case I've run out of ideas

People just need to utilize the report button, sadly most never will :/

  • 08.09.2011 7:22 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Yarr, I'm a pirate.

Posted by: Skibur
Posted by: Achronos
Picking new moderators is hard.
What about old moderators?

What about people who aren't self-righteous butthurt individuals?

Ah no, we've seen that some old moderators are still welcome back despite the fact that they left earlier. You'd think they would all be welcome back...

  • 08.09.2011 7:24 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Pelicän Piräte
What about people who aren't self-righteous butthurt individuals?
Whoever could you be referring to?

That wouldn't be a personal attack on me, would it?

  • 08.09.2011 7:28 PM PDT

"Everything will be gone long before me. When the first living thing was born, I was here, waiting. When the last living thing dies, my job is finished. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn out the lights and lock the universe behind me when I leave." -Shishka

--

http://www.bungie.net/News/Blog.aspx?mode=news#cid32227

Posted by: Achronos
It doesn't help that most people who would be good moderators have absolutely no desire to do it because it is a thankless job, and most who want to do it would make terrible moderators.


How do you know if the people that post here won't make good moderators?

And if you want new moderators, is that actually that hard to lay down strict rules for new moderators and give dedicated, active users a chance and tell them how to work, if they don't already know?

  • 08.09.2011 7:30 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Skibur
Posted by: Pelicän Piräte
What about people who aren't self-righteous butthurt individuals?
Whoever could you be referring to?

That wouldn't be a personal attack on me, would it?


I don't see how you think it is an attack on you personally or in any way whatsoever.

  • 08.09.2011 7:31 PM PDT