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Subject: I Don't Think Bungie Cares Very Much...

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

...about the portion of their community which has almost always been more interested with the single player components of their games than the multiplayer.

What makes me say this is Halo 3, and all the games onward. This thread isn't about these games however, I'm using them as examples to further the point I'm trying to get across.

In both Halo 3 and Halo Reach, the last two full games Bungie made, the multiplayer was more important than the single player. How can I tell? Quality. Halo 3's overall story arch wasn't bad, but that is attributed to the fact that it ended the trilogy. The actual dynamics were terrible. The level design early on wasn't very impressive, and the characters were just abysmal, at least in comparison to Halo 2. While Reach improved level design, the characters were still awful, and same in ODST.

But this thread's point, as mentioned earlier, isn't to simply bash Reach and Halo 3.

Bungie's commitment to the single player component of any title they make will, at least to me, largely dictate whether I remain a fan of theirs or not. Even if their next title is a massive online game, the Universe, characters, and plot have to be of high quality.

Seeing as Bungie employees frequent this forum, I only have one simple question. What should lead me to believe that you actually give a damn about the part of your community which actually discerns your talent as writers, designers, and artists? I didn't need to ask this question before Halo 3 and Reach, but I do now.

Lastly, I only ask this because I have enough respect for Bungie to give them a second chance. I don't despise them, or I wouldn't be here, but that doesn't mean I'm not becoming disappointed with what I'm seeing.

  • 08.09.2011 10:20 PM PDT

Okay.

  • 08.09.2011 10:21 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
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Walk up to her quietly from behind and breathe heavily on the back of her neck and whisper "amore"

Their next game better have rocket boots!

I made that up.

Bungie is no longer managing the Halo Universe. While our Halo-related forums and stats remain available, be advised that "official" answers and support about the Halo Universe (past, present, or future) are not.

  • 08.09.2011 10:21 PM PDT

I miss Halo. Maybe Halo 4 will change that.

Edit: Lol nope

What should lead me to believe that you actually give a damn about the part of your community which actually discerns your talent as designers, and artists?

Multiplayer people are given the time of these guys too, not just you single player loving folk.

I think you personally need to understand that more and more games (especially FPS') are making the money from the multiplayer and the single player aspects are becoming the secondary feature now. You may not like it, but there are other options for you out there.

  • 08.09.2011 10:24 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: Halo Quintilogy
Bungie is no longer managing the Halo Universe. While our Halo-related forums and stats remain available, be advised that "official" answers and support about the Halo Universe (past, present, or future) are not.

You could have the decency to read my post in lieu of copy-pasting the obvious memo at the top of the post screen.

This thread isn't expecting answers about Halo, only about Bungie's focus, and where it lies in terms of what portion of their community they are actually paying more attention to.

  • 08.09.2011 10:25 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

As someone who is more interested in single player, I would disagree. I would argue that Reach and ODST, the 2 later games, have a better campaign than Halo 2 and 3. I guess it really boils down to preference and opinion.

  • 08.09.2011 10:27 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

I think you personally need to understand that more and more games (especially FPS') are making the money from the multiplayer and the single player aspects are becoming the secondary feature now. You may not like it, but there are other options for you out there.
I'm fine with Bungie concentrating on MP, but only if it's given equal importance as multiplayer. My respect for Bungie stemmed from their persistence on delivering fun single player experiences along with multiplayer. Bungie's entire success on the console market stemmed entirely from a phenomenal campaign.

  • 08.09.2011 10:28 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

As someone who is more interested in single player, I would disagree. I would argue that Reach and ODST, the 2 later games, have a better campaign than Halo 2 and 3. I guess it really boils down to preference and opinion.
Yes, I suppose so. I however cannot see how Reach could be perceived as a superior story in terms of canonical consistency as well as character development. While Halo 2 didn't develop the MC very much, it developed the Arbiter, and the entire Covenant.

[Edited on 08.09.2011 10:29 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2011 10:29 PM PDT

I miss Halo. Maybe Halo 4 will change that.

Edit: Lol nope


Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Just look at ODST. That was pretty much a campaign based game (A brilliant one at that) and it didn't get anywhere near as much attention as any of the FPS games out there with a full multiplayer alongside it. The only reason most of my friends and me (originally) bought it was for a disc with all the maps (mainly to save hard drive space.)

The people of today want multiplayer, and they outweigh the single player lovers. Bungie still delivered a great single player with both Halo 3 and Reach anyways. Like a poster above said, it's a matter of preference.

Also what you posted above shows that you're more than a single player lover. You love delving into the whole Halo universe and that has obviously had an effect on your liking (or not liking) of recent campaigns.

[Edited on 08.09.2011 10:34 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2011 10:32 PM PDT

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
The level design early on wasn't very impressive, and the characters were just abysmal, at least in comparison to Halo 2.

Do keep in mind that Halo 3 is essentially the final third of Halo 2 that was cut to make ends meet during that nightmare, so the early levels weren't as interesting as the story was originally meant to be carried seamlessly from Halo 2.

  • 08.09.2011 10:34 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: rraaaaawwwwwwwr

Posted by: Plasma Prestige

Just look at ODST. That was pretty much a campaign based game (A brilliant one at that) and it didn't get anywhere near as much attention as any of the FPS games out there with a full multiplayer alongside it. The only reason most of my friends and me (originally) bought it was for a disc with all the maps (mainly to save hard drive space.)

The people of today want multiplayer, and they outweigh the single player lovers. Bungie still delivered a great single player with both Halo 3 and Reach anyways. Like a poster above said, it's a matter of preference.

I don't see why people liked ODST either. The characters were awful again. The game's campaign was better than Reach's and Halo 3's, but it still wasn't great. If Bungie is going to claim their single player portions are character driven, then the characters actually need to be interested and be developed.

  • 08.09.2011 10:35 PM PDT

I miss Halo. Maybe Halo 4 will change that.

Edit: Lol nope


Posted by: Hylebos

I always wanted to see the cut Halo 2 ending.

  • 08.09.2011 10:36 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: Plasma Prestige
The level design early on wasn't very impressive, and the characters were just abysmal, at least in comparison to Halo 2.

Do keep in mind that Halo 3 is essentially the final third of Halo 2 that was cut to make ends meet during that nightmare, so the early levels weren't as interesting as the story was originally meant to be carried seamlessly from Halo 2.

Yes, this is a good point. Halo 3 wasn't terrible based on what Bungie was given, but Reach has no excuse. It had three years of development time with (seemingly) no horrifying drawbacks similar to Halo 2's development process. And yet, the characters were still subpar. What I liked about ODST is that it at least delivered a new experience and stayed within the bounds of canon consistency when it came to the ODSTs (except from them being able to flip vehicles over).

  • 08.09.2011 10:38 PM PDT

Dating Age

For those looking to vent, get proper advice, or give it to those in need.

They're a stronger multiplayer developer than a singleplayer one. It's the opposite for other developers. I would like to see a lot of emphasis on their next single player game for sure. Not just because I favor the single player experience but because that's the area from which they'll initially build their new fanbase.

  • 08.09.2011 10:39 PM PDT

I miss Halo. Maybe Halo 4 will change that.

Edit: Lol nope


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
...and stayed within the bounds of canon consistency when it came to the ODSTs (except from them being able to flip vehicles over).


Essential game mechanics tend to overrule canon.

  • 08.09.2011 10:41 PM PDT

Dating Age

For those looking to vent, get proper advice, or give it to those in need.


Posted by: rraaaaawwwwwwwr
Essential game mechanics tend to overrule canon.

Pretty much everything in the video game industry overrules canon.

  • 08.09.2011 10:42 PM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

Multiplayer is what made Halo so great. The story alone was cool and all, but Halo would never have become huge without a great multiplayer. And honestly, that's more important these days in games. People keep playing games that have a great multiplayer, not a great campaign. You can really only play campaign so many times before it gets old and repetitive, where multiplayer is always changing. So, really, it's not that they don't care about single player, it's just that it isn't as important. I'm sure they'd love to make a killer story, and invest massive amounts of time and money into it. I honestly think that's what they are doing for their new IP. They just couldn't with Halo.

  • 08.09.2011 10:45 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: Plasma Prestige
The level design early on wasn't very impressive, and the characters were just abysmal, at least in comparison to Halo 2.

Do keep in mind that Halo 3 is essentially the final third of Halo 2 that was cut to make ends meet during that nightmare, so the early levels weren't as interesting as the story was originally meant to be carried seamlessly from Halo 2.

Yes, this is a good point. Halo 3 wasn't terrible based on what Bungie was given, but Reach has no excuse. It had three years of development time with (seemingly) no horrifying drawbacks similar to Halo 2's development process. And yet, the characters were still subpar. What I liked about ODST is that it at least delivered a new experience and stayed within the bounds of canon consistency when it came to the ODSTs (except from them being able to flip vehicles over).

Well, to be fair, when Eric Nylund wrote The Fall of Reach, they never exactly crafted the canon to accomidate an entire game. Otherwise they would likely have made the Battle of Reach last more than a few hours, avoiding the need to invent random skirmishes with the Covenant that occured prior to the main battle. Would definitely have helped quite a bit, but I don't think that Bungie had that sort of foresight back in 2000.

But still, Reach's campaign definitely had it's problems, but at least they did pioneer a lot of that live action cinematics technology. I'm sure they've had a lot to reflect on over the past year, and I have confidence that their next project will be a vast improvement storywise over Halo 3 and Halo Reach. How could it not be with the blank canvas that Bungie has given themselves?

  • 08.09.2011 10:47 PM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything

I thought that Halo 3: ODST's campaign was one of the best out of the series.

  • 08.09.2011 10:49 PM PDT

Giggity Giggity Goo - Quagmire

While ODST was far from my favorite game (hated the long, uneventful walking around at night), I'm pretty sure the entire thing was about single player campaign. They were really trying for an artistic feel. I think they try very hard with their single player component.

  • 08.09.2011 10:49 PM PDT

Whisper Game Studios - shhhh, it's a public secret.
Webcam MVP
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[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

If I'm honest, I think Microsoft was getting to them. A lot. As much as Halo was their baby, they had only ever made it with Halo 1 in mind originally; winging it, really. After the stress of Halo 2, it seems to me that they just didn't want to be under Microsoft anymore; it just wasn't suited for how they work as a team.

Bungie didn't write the novels; that was all Microsoft's doing. I don't even think they were happy with what was written. Which would explain why Halo Reach had inconsistencies with Fall of Reach. So in that respects, I can understand.

I think they all put in as much passion for their games as they could, but I seriously believe that the games were forced out by Microsoft; probably demanded even.

When Bungie left Microsoft in 2007, the deal was for them to produce another 2 Halo games. So we got ODST and Reach; products which I feel were created partially out of that necessity but also because Bungie wanted to practice some really cool techniques since they had the opportunity to do so.

Since they have the sheer freedom of this next game, I think there can be almost zero expectation or disappointment, especially since they aren't promising a single thing. I think it's right for them to go pitch black dark before they announce their next title officially.

I look forward to Tiger/Destiny, and I'm sure it will be a consistent success because of the fact that Bungie will be making it because they want to, not because they have some contract to uphold.

I believe in them and I look forward to finding out what happens next.

[Edited on 08.09.2011 10:51 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2011 10:49 PM PDT

ODST's entire focus was on single player. Giving the player an almost detective feel as he goes through New Mombasa looking for clues.

  • 08.09.2011 10:51 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

ODST was great for fans like me who love Halo's story more then the multiplayer.

  • 08.09.2011 10:53 PM PDT

Gamers Anon

Achronos: And what's this about a "design team" I've been hearing? Apparently stosh is so awesome he's now considered a "team".

I loved ODST I personally think it had the best campaign out of all the Halo games. I may be biased though being 5th on the world leader-boards for games played in ODST.

I have trust in Bungie that even in times of darkness like this that they are still thinking about the community. Just look at their anniversary vidoc.

  • 08.09.2011 11:01 PM PDT

Dating Age

For those looking to vent, get proper advice, or give it to those in need.


Posted by: SonicJohn
If I'm honest, I think Microsoft was getting to them. A lot. As much as Halo was their baby, they had only ever made it with Halo 1 in mind originally; winging it, really. After the stress of Halo 2, it seems to me that they just didn't want to be under Microsoft anymore; it just wasn't suited for how they work as a team.


When it comes to keeping talent happy and productive Microsoft Game Studios has been proven to be inept. Bungie devs aren't the only talent to jump ship. Jay Allard got fed up with their crap. All the Rare talent jumped ship years ago.

This is a lesson Microsoft needs to learn from Nintendo and Sony. Whether you like them or not Sony has kept some of the most talented developers working under them for over a decade. For Nintendo decades.

All MGS had to do was form 343 to work on Halo, get some sweet studios close together in Redmond so all those studios can work closely like Sony and Nintendo have their teams positioned, and let Bungie do what they wanna do exclusively for the Xbox.

[Edited on 08.09.2011 11:03 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2011 11:02 PM PDT

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