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This topic has moved here: Subject: Project: Balance (warning, very long)
  • Subject: Project: Balance (warning, very long)
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however if the shield is "invisible" then people will either claim that there are cheaters or just complain about Bull (unless they see spawn). Fair point though.

[Edited on 3/19/2006]

  • 03.19.2006 7:24 AM PDT
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I can't argue with that, I also think your idea of being able to carry around a camo or overshield to use in the not so distant future in the game is a good one, since they are positioned in the most desolate places so by the time your in combat they have already worn off rendering them useless or pointless.

  • 03.19.2006 7:35 AM PDT
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oh ok good idea to whoever thought of it first!

  • 03.19.2006 7:44 AM PDT
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good ideas... but this would change Halo 2 for the best.
Halo 3 will be completly different...

  • 03.19.2006 11:59 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

News? Podcasts? Machinima? Active forums? Competitions? Jaffa Cakes!? OMG!
Thee Warriors!

Best. Mod. Ever.

I still think alot can be taken from this tough

  • 03.19.2006 12:45 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

OK. Here we go. Many of your ideas I've thought of already. I just forgot to put them in.

Balance: They're not all the same. The SMG would still suck. The sniper is still awesome, but now they're not too much more powerful then eachother and if they are, they form weaknesses. I understand the theory that the SMG is supposed to be weaker to encourage you to find weapons on the map, and I have stayed true to that. The only thing the SMG is good at is a huge crosshair and it's fast reload speed. You see my point, right?

Rocket Tracking: Try giving a rocket launcher to one of the marines in Campaign and watch the fun. See if they last longer then 30 seconds of combat before blowing themselves up.

Sword running out in Multiplayer: I said that.

Needles sticking on melee: It would be a charged attack.

Shotty: Don't worry, I'm sure they have something in mind.

The friggin BR: That is a connection issue and I have something in mind for that as well. But, that's another thread for another day.

Sniper medals: Yeah, but it can be hard when you're in combat.

Brute Shot: I don't know if the Stickies are as accurate as snipers. Did you know, sniper doesn't mean shoot long distances. It means really accurate which is what Halo has made us think it doesn't mean.

Rocket Spash: Totally disagree. The splash damage is what makes this such an unfair weapon.

Frag: Word for word, I said that already, well maybe not word for word, but still.

Pistol Slant: Not Magnum slant (well, I guess it is a magnum but that wasn't the weapon I was talking about), The old pistol slanted. Meaning the big pistol from the good old days.

No hardcore members noticed the designation I gave it. The M6D was the old pistol, the M6C is what we have now, and the M6B is what I called the remake of the old pistol. I was hopping somebody would notice. It's a whole different gun.

Spectating: I thought of that as well, but that would turn into too much to put in. Again, another thread for another day.

Weapon Clips: But it does make a difference, doesn't it?

Carrying them: No, no, no. You misunderstood me. I meant that was a problem and the next paragraph was an example. Here's the example:

Posted by: Bansheeownz
Each ammo clip has 12 rounds in it. If you have 19 rounds of extra ammo and you pick up an ammo clip, the other 11 rounds disappear. How about every time you have less then the maximum capacity (20 rounds), you take the entire clip and nothing less. Meaning, if your in the right situation, you will be capable of carrying 31 extra rounds if you take a clip when you have 19 rounds. If you have two snipers and pick up a clip when you already have 39 rounds, you'll be able to carry 51 extra rounds. Total, in the guns and the maximum supply you can carry, equals 59 rounds. Look out Elites!


Spawn Protection: Yet another idea I didn't put in, but this one qualifies here. Maybe as custom, you could make the amount of overshield what you wanted. Oh, I'll just cover it another time.

Wow, you're like phychic or something. No, everybody thinks the same way, meaning Bungie would probably see things our way as well.

  • 03.19.2006 3:37 PM PDT

I am a Floodian

Im sorry, but that is too long, do not like charged melee, alternate fire, duel melee, duel secondary

dont know what else I might not like, I will copy paste into word document for later

  • 03.19.2006 4:45 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: squirrel dude
Im sorry, but that is too long, do not like charged melee, alternate fire, duel melee, duel secondary

dont know what else I might not like, I will copy paste into word document for later


Could you all do me a favor and just do something without saying you're going to do it? And, I don't care about your opinion inless you tell me why you don't like something.

  • 03.19.2006 5:37 PM PDT

A mythic member but I speak my mind to much.

Wow that was a lot.

Good Ideas

  • 03.19.2006 5:41 PM PDT
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The Marty Army

Ah, look at the lonely people...

Don't get me wrong, I already stated my love for these ideas, but, lets be realistic, I don't exactly see Bungie doing this any time soon. This would basically require an entire new Halo 2 Multiplayer to be made, and they're probably finished/close to done/set in what they're going to do with the multiplayer on the Next Project.

Still doesn't mean that these ideas don't pwn.

  • 03.19.2006 6:15 PM PDT

I am a Floodian

I read through the weapon ideas

shotgun=sucks
duel wielding swords=wtf
the carbine uses radioactive rounds not plasma so how would it deplete the clip
fuel rod is not practicle
the br has been lowered to the level of ultimate suckage
you have made the rocket -blam!-
the frag grenade is operated by a button buddy, so it can be armed that fast
the plasma grenades fuse was made shorter because it was too long
what is the difference with the sentinal beam's beams
why remove the cursor in no scoping, it needs to stay there

why do you need an alternate fire on a weapon

you have completely destroyed the balance in the halo weapons, not made it better

I am sorry but, this, SUCKs

  • 03.19.2006 7:02 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: squirrel dude
I read through the weapon ideas


*Sigh*, here we go.

shotgun=sucks

Actually, my version is better then what we have now.

duel wielding swords=wtf

I'm not saying hold two swords. I'm saying have the ability along with another weapon of your choice. I'm sure you can think of something.

the carbine uses radioactive rounds not plasma so how would it deplete the clip

Well then in that case, its a radioactive charge.

fuel rod is not practicle

Sure it is, complete pwnage in the face of total war.

the br has been lowered to the level of ultimate suckage

Are you saying you like it the way it is? Because there are entire communities that think otherwise.

you have made the rocket -blam!-

Okay this is getting stupid.

the frag grenade is operated by a button buddy, so it can be armed that fast

Yes, but the chief doesn't even have to pick one up to throw it in Halo 2. Besides, would you rather have huge explosions or fast throwing rocks.

the plasma grenades fuse was made shorter because it was too long

The catch was that it made an enormous explosion, which is what I want.

what is the difference with the sentinal beam's beams

The alternate shoots a more powerful beam but overheats quicker.

why remove the cursor in no scoping, it needs to stay there

Absolutely not, shooting a gun at point-blank and being able to fry someone's shields is just too much if it's too easy. Taking off the crosshair will at least make it harder.

why do you need an alternate fire on a weapon

For fun, and to counter duel-wielding.

you have completely destroyed the balance in the halo weapons, not made it better

Define balance. Does it mean only a few weapons on the map have the ability to kill someone and the rest can just spawn and die? Giving other weapons a chance would at least make a more interesting experience.

I am sorry but, this, SUCKs

I'm sorry you feel that way. I've proven time and time again now that my setup is superior. Bring them on people! The more I get, the more I can prove to you that the project is best. God, I love doing this!

  • 03.19.2006 8:58 PM PDT

I helped with it :)

-Rawrr-™

  • 03.19.2006 10:32 PM PDT

Ok, good well-thought out post and it's nice to see people taking weapon balance seriously. I like some of the ideas, the ones that have more to do with hit mechanics ie damage of the weapons, auto-aim (or whatever you want to call it). I don't like the dual-wield melee idea because I feel it gives more incentive to dual wield when I believe there should be less. I don't like the weapon storing idea regarding dual-wield weapons - the ability to carry 2 different deadly weapon combos is in my opinion heading for major imbalance. I don't like the charged melee idea because that will leave no incentive to do normal melees - every melee will be a double-tap. I say it adds needless complexity to the melee system, well I call it a system but it's pretty much 'press b' as it stands, and I think that should stay. I love melees but they should remain a backup, not a primary strategy. I don't like the secondary fire ideas, I think they also add needless complexity. I was already scratching my head as to why there was 2 types of sentinal beam in the first place, having 2 in 1 seems largely pointless to me, and for things like the assault rifle firing frags this would be difficult to balance. How do you judge how powerful this makes the assault rifle? I appreciate that you will have to re-learn grenade trajectories when using it but I'd rather just be throwing them in the same way I do with all the other weapons.

I was a bit worried that your post was advocating an unchanged weapon set from Halo 2 - I really don't like that idea, because they changed the weapon set significantly from 1 to 2 and I think they should do the same again - they haven't hit some magic formula in 2 which was not present in one (in fact I'm in the camp that says it was more the other way round but I digress). But I saw the other sections about weapons and see that some changes are made. I agree with bringing back the assault rifle any way possible. I also agree that a pistol like the HaloCE pistol would be welcome, although it should not have the incredible power that the original did but a cheeky nod to the first game would be cool.

The main problem I have with some of your suggestions is that they take away some of the simplicity that was/is so great about Halo. I feel it is just as important as balance. I would not advocate the addition of too many weapons, especially ones that are just minor variations of each other, and although that was not the main point of your plan it seems to be a part of it.

But as I say, great post and these are just my opinions on it.

  • 03.20.2006 5:02 AM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

I feel very sincerely about my thread and all of the ideas in it.

Duel-wield melee: The thing is, we melee with duel-wield already. It's just such a pain to have to pick it up again. If we were to do it and be able to keep the duel-wield, it would have to be better, yet worse in a way. It would take more time and do slightly more damage, as the post said.

Weapon Storing: Again, disagree. It only adds all the more gameplay to the situation, inless you think people might try 'noob comboing' with two pistols. Of course, every other weapon has an alternate to make up for it.

Charged Melee: Oh no. It would only add all the more stategy to the game. If a player has enough shield to take a regular melee attack, he could either: a) try his luck with charged melee. b) if he has stickies try to use them. c) try damaging him with his guns till hes low enough to finish him. or d) run away because he knows he doesn't stand a chance. If that's not balance, I don't know what is.

Alternate Fire: Needless complexity? All you have to do is hold Y then do what you want from there. Plus, slightly more complex gameplay keeps the player interested and wanting to try different things, as long as it all stays balanced.

Thank you for all of your opinions people. Nobody can feel the same way about what they want for the next project and I knew coming in here that there were going to be those that disagreed, but ultimately this is all going better then most posts. Looks like the majority of the posts in fact, agree with the things I say. Ultimately, Bungie knows what they're doing and if they want to, and they find the time to look at posts like these, they might just use some of the ideas incorporated in this thread.

Again, thank you all for your opinions and keep them coming.

  • 03.20.2006 11:01 AM PDT
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This actualy would turn off hundreds of players it is way too complicated and harder for noobs to get into. Thats why halo and halo 2 is so popular with people who dont even have an xbox. they enjoy the game becuz its ez to pick up and hard to master I like it the way it is now and i think with just a few weapon tweeeks the game would be perfect. EXpecialy on lan which is what I enjoy and what I belive to be the most balanced game on MLG settings besides Starcraft. I think im going to go to the classic argument gainst this that people used when halo 2 came out. "if something isnt broke why fix it?" and in my opinion halo 2 isnt broke it just needs a lil glue and some cool new add ons like graphics that blow my mind away ALA GRAW and Oblivion as well as some sweet huge battles that involve alot of players and dropships and -blam!- (now I like skill games as mutch as the next guy but hell a "War" gametype would be fun as hell) Also a Coustom Game FInder, and more action/more human involved epic ending for the campain mode


P.S. bad spelling and punctution going now too lazy to fiz it, but if you reply to this please send me a PM with it thatd be cool thx ^__^

[Edited on 3/20/2006]

  • 03.20.2006 11:50 AM PDT
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Sol: a small, old school map.
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These are my little ideas for Halo 2. Some drastic, and some small, and some responce to what Banshie said if I remember:

I personally believe that duel wielding should be taken out entirely. The game would just balance better. No more needed to double the power of weapons when two are used, thus make using just one dumb, and making unrealistic balances (what do you mean I can't melee with two weapons?!). It would make the game flow better. Less trying to organize your weapons. The pistol could be useful by itself and wouldn't have to be so weak (though I still think it just makes more sense for an assault rifle to be the best all around weapon. Realistically, don't cha know), and the plasma rifle could have it's awesome stalling ability from Halo 1.

I also think that you should be able to see a person's secondary weapon. You've got a launcher? I should see it on your back. You've got a plasma pistol? It should be hanging on your hip. Grenades would be visible hooked to your legs too. Though this may be something that's just a matter of hardware power that Bungie wanted to do all along.

I like the idea of vehicles being able to tell when there's a launcher locked on, though I would extend it to all the vehicles.

I don't like the whole, secondary fire idea though. Too much like Conker for me, and that game sucked balls. Keep it simple, keep it fun. I feel strongly on this one.

Though I do like the idea of being able to unlock new emblems. There should be emblems you can only get after beating a certain level of the campaign, which I think is how it worked in Conker. That's where the similarities should end however.

I think more little things for machinimators would sweet. Being able to go HUD-less would be cool even as a silly challenge in multiplayer. Being able to have no weapon and just have your hands at your sides would be good too, and you'd still be able to toss grenades and melee. Perfect for filmmaking and melee only fights instead of using the plasma pistol (which is still fun). One should also be able to move the Elite's mandibles back and forth to make it look like their talking like the Elites do in campaign.

Grenade fuses should NOT be longer. This is a fast paced game, and any slower and the battle would be over by the time it did anything. It would mean they're less useful and more for randomly trying to blow people up. BUT, the frag should do just as much damage at your feet as a plasma.

Sword stuff that's already been said a thousand times before: The sword should have a battery just like in campaign, and should only be able to pounce ahead as far as one can with a regular melee.

A wider range of view, for the love of God! I should be able to see at least 90°!

I really like your idea of not being able to switch weapons when your plasma pistol (or plasma rifle, or beam rifle I suppose) has overheated. I might still turn down the tracking a LITTLE, and that would have to be extensively play tested. But otherwise, that'd fix almost everything about the noob combo. Great idea, Banshie. It would make the PP/Magnum the best combo in the game again, but I say get rid of duel wielding anyway (which I know isn't going to happen in Halo 2).

Not some bad ideas, Banshie, but I'm sure Bungie knows what they're doing better than we mortals. I like my ideas listed above, but it's Bungie's game and I trust 'em to make another awesome game. Congrats on getting on the Bungie main page, Banshie!

[Edited on 3/20/2006]

  • 03.20.2006 12:21 PM PDT
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I think bansheeownz has excellent ideas.
My favorite one is the sentinel beam, because you really made it a unique weapon. It is cool how it has a secondary mode that is harder to aim with (I think that's what you said), but deals more damage than the primary. If I may say so...the current sentinel beam in Halo 2 flat-out sucks and is too weak. Bansheeownz's sentinel beam kicks @ss. I would love to use a weapon like that, a weapon that can actually be relied upon.

  • 03.20.2006 3:04 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

It seems to be a thing mostly disagreed upon in my thread that I must cover from top to bottom now, alternate fire:

The theory against it is that it would become too complicated for newcomers of the game. My question is how is that? All you have to do is hold Y to activate it, and that's it. It's not like the player has to learn every single weapon to understand what they do.

Besides, the idea of two uses of a button is already being used. X reloads and picks up weapons. To keep from picking up a weapon you just simply press X rather than hold it. The same idea goes with alternate fire.

Not only that, but alternate plays along with a system we already have, and that's duel-wield. That's why it may seem like nobody here can mention them in different sentences.

Then, there are others here that would rather go back to basics and just flat-out delete duel-wield and alternate. That's another solution, but that would create problems as well. The gameplay becomes dull without interesting things throughout the game. Without those, the most interesting things you'll be able to do is stick and snipe someone in the head. For those of you that have seen montages know what I'm talking about.

I agree that this is Bungie's game, not mine, but that doesn't mean I'm going to shut up. Forum noobs that can't make their own threads and just take out all their anger on others deserve to get t-bagged by little kids on live althewhilst, being able to do nothing about it because it's just a video game. This is the way I think things should be, not the way they're going to be. And, what better place to propose it then on Bungie's very own forum? Who knows, somebody might be listening or even taking notes on what they like (hint, hint).

  • 03.20.2006 10:52 PM PDT